State Field

[Colin]

Once again we will be there, but at $108 for my family I have to wonder WHY?
I know Marcus can't make it but is any body else going?

[Marcus]

That's insane. Every year this sport costs more and more money. No wonder there arn't as many families involved as there use to be.
Erika won't be shooting as uni gets in the way, she will be at Yarra though and I'm hoping to be back into it by Yarra, if not by Diamond Pile.
BTW anyone who thinks massage is pleasant should go to mine. Breaking my hand hurt less :(

[mike]

Yeah, its a lot of money...for the Silver Cup it was justified as Sherbrooke pays for the trophies, which were pretty good, I thought. Not sure what the deal is with a State Champ event given that AV pays for the trophies.

Nonetheless, for those of you who enjoy the indoor version of the sport (and I reckon that counts for a lot of us) you can look forward to an Indoor range being built at Sherbrooke in the future (not too distant either, I am hoping by the news I am getting). This will mean at least 4 Melbourne AA clubs have a proper indoor range ( MAC, DVA, UYA and Sherbrooke) and then, maybe then, we can get a regular inter-club indoor league going (perhaps rotating a comp night each week at each of the participating clubs or something). Then you would really see a battle at the State Indoor -- we could start to rival the Las Vegas shoot!!!! Gone would be the days of a regular 3 or 4 way only shoot out (no offence to the Hat Trick acheived by the winner this year...but, it would open up the competition)

I say this because part of what Sherbrooke is doing at the moment is fund raising for the indoor, hence the raffle tickets at their comps and things like that. I'm sure that everyone in the sport would like to see the level of competition grow, as this is in the end what keeps people in the sport, particularly if they started as juniors (which doesn't include me, but I'm no less addicted or obsessive about the damn game)

Any way, I won't be shooting the State Field, wish I could but exams stand in the way and, well, I'm not a fair weather shooter, but I am turning into one of those whinging shooters who wont shoot if everything has gone wrong in the shooting form department, as it has for me recently....

:confused I dont know what has gone wrong, I need an archery psychiatrist to medicate me or hypnotise me or something to magically return my form of a couple of months ago.
:mad

:eek

any way, if any of you are going, I may see you there briefly.

Cheers and good luck..... :)

[Eberbachl]

It's a pity that because Sherbrooke wants an indoor range, archers from other clubs have to pay for it by paying ridiculous fees. $35 for two days of shooting paper targets at the Silver Cup cannot be justified, neither can $35 for another two days of paper targets at the state field - regardless of the cost of the trophies. Nobody forced Sherbrooke to spend $1000 on trophies at the Silver Cup.

I don't have a problem with fundraising at all...we are selling chocolates at the moment, and often invite people to purchase raffle tickets at shoots, but lets get these shoot fees under control...PLEASE.

I shot the ABA state field titles last weekend (two days of paper targets also!) and they had really great trophies.........$20

I'm very sorry that Sherbrooke is adopting this pose as I'd really like to shoot the State field this weekend, Sherbrooke has a wonderful course, and I really like the round...but I wont pay that much.

And there are many people who simply cant!

....go figure:mad

[Marcus]

Yeah no need to spend so much on trophies. It may mean alot to some shooters but to many it means very little. I've never cared for my non-state and non-national trophies and have them put away somewhere.
A ribbon or piece of paper would have been fine, just want the chance to shoot with lots of people.

I thought that $15 for the Whitehorse was ok, but if it was a 2 day I would expect $25 max for the pair, not double the amount, and the trophies were fine.

[Colin]

We have just got some Glass Picture frames that we will be using for Trophey. I think thay are the same as some that DVA used last year. They cost $2. All we need to do is Print a card to go in them. They Look Realy Good!

[Marcus]

{*b}but I am turning into one of those whinging shooters who wont shoot if everything has gone wrong in the shooting form department, as it has for me recently....
{b*}

There is little point shooting comps if your form is down. Best thing to do is get it right and get back into when your confidence is better, otherwise you just sometimes make it worse. Good luck with it and your exams. What are you studying?

Yeah that's all you need Colin, something that looks good and doesn't cost the earth. Has the same value to the person who won it if it's $2 or $20.

[mike]

I would be interested to know what the entry fees were for the State Field and Silver Cup last year (I haven't asked at Sherbrooke and I wasn't a member there last financial year, nor did I shoot either comp). I'm sure they wouldn't have been all that different. Maybe I am completely naieve, but, I have only been in the sport 2 years and I don't REALLY think the fees are excessive. I am a uni student, and to be honest, even if i could shoot this weekend I probably couldn't afford the $35.

But somehow I have managed to buy gear and go to comps because I love it! YES YES YES, it is a lot of money, I am not doubting that, but it doesn't seem too bad when you consider, for example, that you pay at least $15 per person now to have SOCIAL round of golf. I hate to think how much you would spend in golf to get to say Pro-Am level.

Now I know that for families the fees present a greater challenge, but, again, fees have to be set at a level and one cannot expect a club to be running Two-Pay, Two-Get-In-For-Free deals. These field tournaments have limited entry numbers. If for example a shoot was held so that a family got free entry for the juniors, the organisers woud end up giving entry prefference to full fee paying senior shooters. THAT would do nothing for the sport.

The fees have to be set at a level that covers costs AND returns a profit, not excessive, to the club running the event. If there was no money in it, there would be no incentive for the club to go to such effort to put on the comp. YES, I participated in Sherbrooke's working bee for this weekends shoot, and I think that the efforts of members in putting on a comp, particularly the work of committee members, deserves reward, not to those particular members, but to the club as a whole. Its that sort of thing that REALLY keeps a club going.

This is all quite aside from the benefit in terms of pride and promotion of the club.

Its going to sound really harsh and right wing of me all of this, which is not what I am, but, when you think about it, $35 for a whole weekend's shooting at a State Level tournament (that is one rung down from National level) is not too bad. Its a whole weekend's entertainment!!!


And I know in my case that considering the hours I put in in practise prior to these damn tournaments, the $35 seems inconsequential (its just a part of life as i drift through my obsession with this game of shooting stick of carbon fibre at coloured bits of paper)

Then I see my povo uni student bank account and realise how silly I am being.

But then theres always a new release aid or a new pack of vanes or..............

[mike]

Couple of additional points:

1. I did not say that you are paying for Sherbrooke to have an indoor by paying these entry fees. Our membership fees got raised for that sort of thing as far as Im aware and any profit that may or may not be raised by a comp goes in to the general funds of the club. Its then quite within the clubs right to decide what to do with that money.

2. Am I to take it that the Diamond Pile will be a two day event across the whole weekend and that the fees will only be $25??? That would be great, I'd certainly try to be there for it.

3. I am studying geology at university.

4. I sound like a politician now and so I am going to shut up.

5. :p

[Eberbachl]

Mike, we both agree that a club should be able to return a profit from holding a tournament.

But we must agree to disagree about wether or not Sherbrooke's fees are excessive. I was the ABA tournament director at DVA for two years and I'm now the Secretary, so I know how much it costs to put on a shoot. Some profit is fine. Excessive profits are not.

And yes, DVA Diamond Pile is a two day event, and although the committee has not yet decided on a final figure, recent conversations have suggested that it will be around $25................

[Marcus]

Well as DVA's new AV tournament director I am in commitee meetings pushing for cheaper comps overall to promote families and juniors back into comps. While the running of this event will be done by the old Tour Director I will be making sure that it will be as cheap as possible, and with Luke on the commitee and no member that I know of who are trying to profit from the event I would be shocked if it was over $25 for the weekend.
As a member of DVA for over 8 years I have never once seen evidence of profiteering from an event.

Personally it's a shame to see how expensive this sport has become over the years as well as the decline in junior participation. There were only a couple of jnrs at Box Hill when years ago there would have been 10-20 shooting. I can't help but see a relation between the two. And it you are a family with 2 adults and 2 children with gear, club fees and $100 per tournament it certainly adds up.

I would like to see free entry for juniors with a minimum number allocated to shoots. Considering that they are an important part of the future of the sport they are much neglected, and it is not encouraging for parents who don't shoot to let their kids take up archery when the costs are so high.

[mike]

Thankyou for your replies.

I think that fairness and responsibility are the key things here.

Fairness:- Fees should be paid by all competitors. So if there are 90 competitors, there should be 90 fees. This does not mean that you wouldn't have lowered fees for juniors and/or family discounts, but ultimately, to put it bluntly, if for example your family takes up 5 shoting positions on the line or on the course, then your family ought to pay what is due for all 5 people. I don't think this makes me an arsehole, although I'm sure some would say it, I am just proposing the most fair situation.

Responsibility:- Clubs have a responsibility to their members to at least break even, and preferably make a profit from events. I know that sounds highly capatilist and all, but its not really -- a clubs members work together to provide for eachother. If that teamwork works well, and all operations of the club are successfull, then the club is a success. A successfull club attracts more members....you see where I'm going. This doesn't mean 'profiteering' from other clubs' members, but simply demands a level of 'managerial' responsibility. If this isn't done, a club goes under -- It happens....

So, in light of this, all I can say to you is that I support any position you take if it vaguely adheres to the above main principles. So, with this in mind, if you can put on the Diamond Pile heaps cheaper than the State Field (and I honestly believe that you can) then I promise to enquire with the Sherbrooke Committee as to why the shoot was so expensive and I will tell them that there are members of other clubs who elected not to shoot the champs on the basis of the price.

I really didn't want to start an argument, but I thought that there was a level of reason to both sides of the argument. I have above stated where I am coming from. I agree with you it is expensive, I agree that it is hard on family groups. I agree that it doesn't matter what the trophy is made from.


Perhaps if annual AV fees were raised a little and then AV paid a club a per competitor amount for each tournament it would raise the numbers at comps....so if 100 signed up for the State Field, AV would pay SA say $20 per shooter -- $2000. So your AV fees might be $25 more each year, but your tournament entry for the entire year would be free.

Just a thought.....

[Colin]

I think it was a good shoot, we all had fun, even the weather held off.

Results

http://archery.alphalink.com.au/frame_Sherbrooke%20Archers%20Home%20Page%20.htm

[Eberbachl]

Sorry to see that you weren't able to make it to the Diamond Pile mike

[mike]

Yeah, sorry 'bout that, It was the Sherbrooke Club Championships on the weekend (and in the end that was postponed due to the inclement weather!)

Looks like it was a good shoot though, and I am still looking forward to doing an IFAA round one day.

I will be at DVA this weekend however for the Coaching Clinic...

[Kaalboog]

I shot a field round at DVA in August and that set me back $ 20 for one day. $ 35 for 2 days is not stiff.:)

[Marcus]

Please check the dates posted. This thread started in 2001

[The One]

And with inflation as it is now!! ;)