New to archery

[Mustey]

Hi Guys!

My first post in here, hopefully placed right.

My story is pretty simple. I like shooting stuff and I think I am naturally gifted with accuracy. Until lately I have been practicing with firearms, mostly high-end pistols and carbines. I think I am pretty good with those but I am going to have to drop this hobby. Too much money goes on guns, accessories, maintainance, ammo and licensing (I am not Aussie). Not to mention the safety issues (there are little kids around) and the fact that I am a little bored.

What I am looking for is a new hobby, I am hoping that arrows have more than one shot in them so maybe even save some money (and still punch holes in paper like with pistols) compared to my old hobby.

I will be able to attend courses about shooting bows but for now I want to know what kind of bow am I looking to buy? (I like mechanics and for now I would like to talk about just that).

Basically, I understand that I cannot expect the same accuracy, ease of use and power like a good H&K Mark 23 (a very good pistol) can give from a bow but a good bow able to make 2 inch groups at 100 yards (in the hands of the right archer), right?

Strength is no issue, I have a very strong back. Money is not my advantage but also not a big problem.

I like buying high end stuff, it enthusiasts me more to know that I have a good instrument that I need to learn using.

You can help me by naming a few of the really high end bows and then some of the good ones as well as those I should avoid at all costs!
In pistols, it goes like this:
High End: Sigarms, H&K, Walter
Good: Ruger, Glock, CZ, Colt
Avoid at all costs!: Russian stuff

Also would be interesting to know what are the main classes of bows. In pistols it goes like this:
Full size competition (overall length can reach 16" and more, frame can host scopes and even buttstocks)
Full size personal (length between 9-11")
Compact (length between 7-9")
Sub Compact (Length below 7")

And I would also like to know what are the main charachteristics of bows. In pistols you have the barrel length, caliber, operation mechanism type, trigger pull and type and some more.

Of course I've been very general and innacurate decribing pistols because I just wanted to give an overall example of what kind of answers are helpful to me and I am not sure how much you are interested in firearms anyway. BTW, it's 2:30AM ATM so don't be harsh on me if I sound like a guy who has just 30% of his brain power because that's the situtation as it really is ATM!

If you have any site I can use for info, it will be very nice of you to tell me it.

Thanks!

[Sandy Hancock]

http://www.archery-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=92944

Once you've read that, read this.
With your firearms experience you obviously know a lot about aiming and squeezing a trigger. Archery and pistol shooting have similarities but major differences.
In Archery, you produce the energy which propels the projectile; it is a far more physical sport.
The projectile moves at best at around 300 feet per second. 2" groups at 90 metres just don't happen (well not often), even with the best compound bow archers on earth (the ten point ring is nearly 5" wide).
Yes, the arrows can be used over and over, but they cost up to $80 each.
A high end compound bow (I'm guessing this will be more appropriate for your needs than a recurve) with all the peripherals will cost you at least $1500-2000 (Australian Dollars).

You said you had access to a club. Go there.

Once you've worked out what you want to do there is a wealth of information stored on this site which can steer you toward the right gear.

[Dave Barnes]

Basically, I understand that I cannot expect the same accuracy, ease of use and power like a good H&K Mark 23 (a very good pistol) can give from a bow but a good bow able to make 2 inch groups at 100 yards (in the hands of the right archer), right?
So you can shoot groups less than 2 inches at 100 yards with a pistol? I take my hat off to you.

The two main types of bows are compound and recurve. Basically compound = easier physically, more technology and more accurate.

All the top brands with both compounds and recurve are very similar, depending on who you ask they will have different favourites.

Recurve: Hoyt, Win & Win, Samick, Spigarello. My favourite is Hoyt.
Compound: Hoyt, Mathews, Martin. Again, my favourite is Hoyt :D

[Brocky]

Groups less than 2 inches at 100 yards with a pistol? :o
I believe your have made a mistake with your sign in name of Mustey should it not be James.

[Brett F]

I can only get mine to group 1.5" at 50 yards I have yet to see a pistol group that at 100 yards.

[Mustey]

First of all, thanks for the answers.

Yeah, it was my lack of sleep talking. 90 meters away from a target, with my Mark 23 + G&GG Adaptor hosting a Tasco Optima Red dot sight, with perfect ammo I can get 4-5 inch groups in top shape and that's not tactical shooting that I am talking about, but slow and calculated shots.

I didn't mean to say that 2inch groups from that far away is something I can do, but this particular pistol mounted on a ballistic testing turret can do even better. I was talking about the mechanical boundaries of both types of weapons.

Anyway, people hunt with bows so I suppose they are accurate and powerfull enough for my paper-piercing needs.

Can you show me pics of both types of bows and their main parts?

I am currently busy with work and the univercity so I will try to get as much info as possible from the net before I look for clubs.

[slick]

Some internet sites.

http://freespace.virgin.net/neil.morris1/links.html
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/index.php?
http://www.texasarchery.org/Documents/mfrlinks.htm
http://www.redrutharchers.fsnet.co.uk/ra_links_manufacs.htm
http://www.archery.org.au/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=ASP0009/ccms.r

The one below is great for recurve archers....which is my obsession.
http://sagittarius.student.utwente.nl/bb/

Best of luck with your new interest.

Cheers Ken.

[Sandy Hancock]

Anyway, people hunt with bows so I suppose they are accurate and powerfull enough for my paper-piercing needs.

I think you'll find most hunters make their shots from less than 30 metres, so hair splitting accuracy at 90 metres is not very important.
The main challenge is in the stalking and getting into a position where a *good* shot can be taken.

(Duck for cover for discussing hunting on a target/indoor thread :roll: )

[Mustey]

So basically compound bows are simply a lot better than recurve?
I noticed that recurve bows tend to look like what most of the people think about bows - arclike, while compound bows tend to look like an M (or W). I saw on ebay some of the brands you mentioned going for 800-900USD used but like new. I wonder which are the interesting models.

[Mustey]

How about this model:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HOYT-2006-Trykon-XL-NIB_W0QQitemZ7234881197QQcategoryZ20838QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

[Ja]

thats a brand new hoyt, id suggest going something a little lower down the scale to start with

[Mustey]

That's pretty much well within my budget. What problems can I meet if I get something like this?

(BTW, what's 3D?)

[Ja]

3D in my understanding is walking around the bush shooting at targets that look like animals.

[Sandy Hancock]

How about this model:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HOYT-2006-Trykon-XL-NIB_W0QQitemZ7234881197QQcategoryZ20838QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

The Hoyt Trykon is by all accounts a very nice bow, but so are many others. Getting your first bow through Ebay sight unseen is a *really* bad idea.

From your previous post it strikes me you would benefit from getting your hands on a few bows first, not to mention learning a bit about the sport. There are major and very important differences between bows designed for different uses. To put in a context you might understand, saying compounds are better than recurves is like saying rifles are better than pistols. They don't compete against each other.

Revisit this issue *in a few months* after learning the basics at your local archery club. You will look back and be thankful you didn't rush in.

[Ja]

Mmm getting a brand new trykon at that price, to me, seems a little dodgey

[primal]

when you get around to checking out your local and not quite local pro shops, check out the following bows

these are all excellent bows and will make you a happy chappy :)

the order i would put em in.

1 bowtech alliegence
2 ben pearson stealth and generation 2,
3 mathews switchback
4 ross ccr34
5 diamond liberty
6 hoyt trykon

[Mustey]

Oh, Come on... All generally similar but somewhat different designs have some definable differences in operation, designation or features.

I know my way around physics so I assume the pulleys/cams make some reduction at the force required to pull the arrow. I am assuming that it is most important at the end of the pulling process because that's where the peak tension occurs and probably the toughest moment so theres's probably importance to the cam design.

The recurve seems a little weird. No pulleys but there are these extra curves at the tips of the bow (could these be the elements from which the name "recurve" comes from?). They look like just another thing to bend while the bow is pulled. Looks like another source of potential energy to me, but that is not enough to beat the multiple string system, right?

Do you know a site or something with a picture of both bows and their main parts? I like field strip charts or exploded views.

Thanks.

[New Tricks]

If you want exploded views, go to the Bowtech website.


ahahahahahahahaahh

[Sandy Hancock]

Oh, Come on... All generally similar but somewhat different designs have some definable differences in operation, designation or features.

I know my way around physics so I assume the pulleys/cams make some reduction at the force required to pull the arrow. I am assuming that it is most important at the end of the pulling process because that's where the peak tension occurs and probably the toughest moment so theres's probably importance to the cam design.

The recurve seems a little weird. No pulleys but there are these extra curves at the tips of the bow (could these be the elements from which the name "recurve" comes from?). They look like just another thing to bend while the bow is pulled. Looks like another source of potential energy to me, but that is not enough to beat the multiple string system, right?


No, you *don't* understand the physics. The peak tension on a compound occurs in the *middle* of the draw. The whole idea behind the cams is to store the peak potential energy of the draw in the cams and cables while taking tension off the bowstring at full draw.

The recurve seems a little weird to you *because* you don't get it. The recurve on the limbs dramatically improves the efficiency of the system compared to the long bow. Without cams and other bits which can fall apart. Sure it is not as fast as a compound, but it is arguably more elegant.

Different people enjoy one more than the other. Both are highly competitive sports. Recurve archery generally requires more physical conditioning, which makes compound archery more attractive for some.

Spend some time in the sport. Get a clue. Then decide.

[Mustey]

That's the reduction I was talking about. The cams make it so that the peak tension comes before the full draw so that the archer can have more and easier time aiming.

I would really like to get more information about archery, not to mention that I crave of holding one of those things and maybe even trying a shot.

Actually, I did shoot a compound once (when I was 14). Obviously, I wasn't strong enough to pull it nicely and aim so I am glad that I didn't poke an eye :D

I bet the height of the archer probably is another factor that contributes to shooting. I am 5' 10", could that be a problem? I also bet that recurve bows should match the height of their archer, is my guess true?
Do you have height consideration when selecting a compound bow?

I appreciate your information. Thanks!

[frommy]

No. Only draw length of the arms, and this is not always related to the height of the person.

Mate, if you want to trully enjoy the same stuff that we do, you really need to get involved with a club.

Sandy and others have given some good advice.

Some compound bows are sold with modules for the exact length of the archers draw, with no adjustment possible, without buying extra modules. If a person is new to the sport, their form would not be good enough to determine what the appropriate draw length should be for reasonably good archery.

Other compounds may have adjustability in the cams for increasing/decreasing draw length over, sometimes, up to 3" of draw length, and for some junior style entry bows, even more.

Recurves, to get the best out of them, and, mind, I am a compound archer, also have variables, although the overall recurve package could be considered to be lower tech than a compound. But, again, the main variable is the archers draw length, followed by poundage pulled, which is at its' maximum at full draw, unlike a compound with the cam let-off.

Hope this might help.

Brian