How much does heart rate really affect shooting?

[BrokenArr0w]

hi all,

i got think, how much does your pulse rate really affect your shooting?

i am currently doing nursing at uni, and found out that my heart rate is a tad high.. they consider anything from 60 - 100BPM to be normal.. and i sit in the 80bpm rate.. so it is still ok.
they do believe that all fit people are usually around the 50-60bpm margin tho..
so grab your wrist for 1 min, and count how many bpm you get..

now i am young and healthy, i run and dont have any problems. but i did get thinking.

does it really matter, so long as it is with a normal value should it make a differance?


what does everyone think?

[New Tricks]

When I was at my fittest, my resting rate was in the low 40s. I am up well and truely into the 60s now. I think the key is not your rate but the speed at which you can get you rate to at or below 100 (field archery I am talking here). My moderate pace walking rate is in the mid 110s.

FITA type stand on the line shooting I cannot see heart rate mattering much as everyone would have resting rates at or below 100 and you saunter and fluff around all day shooting target so have lots of time for recovery. The only interesting heart rate thing I have found during shooting is that from the moment of draw to release, my rate would climb about 6 BPM. This I am guessing would increase the longer you stay at full draw which could push you back over 100.

[BrokenArr0w]

but what differance do you think this would really make to your shooting?
this question goes for everyone..

[James Park]

In the mid 1990's we did some work on this.
For top archers, their heart rate decreased as they drew the bow and aimed it. Then, immediately following the shot their heart rate increased markedly.
My rate decreased by about 5bps as I drew and aimed and increased by about 10 immediately after the shot..
What we also found was that top archers knew how to pro-actively lower the rate at any time they chose, and used this to manage their stress levels.

[andrewf87]

What we also found was that top archers knew how to pro-actively lower the rate at any time they chose, and used this to manage their stress levels.
How did they do this, what techniques ?

[James Park]

I have practiced lowering my heart rate simply by breathing slowly and relaxing. I can very quickly drop it by 5-10 bpm. This is a key still for a target archer as you need to be able to maintain the optimum stress level through the whole end.

[2Dogs]

Would love to know NT's heart rate during shootoff's

:rofl:

Giddy Up :wink: 8)

The only time I've found heart rate being something to take notice of, is during high stress times....eg: Match play, shoot off's... times when your out of your comfort zone.

That's when the techniques Jim discussed come in handy...... and a spare pair of undies :wink:

[New Tricks]

I think the ice water in my veins heats up considerably. I don't reckon heart rate actually makes you shoot better or worse but I think it is the related 'stress' of a situation not the actual beats that make your shots poor and the heart rate is just a sign of the stress. The deep breath type technique is just 'getting your **** together'.

[wareagle]

Heart rate does'nt seem to worry me, just the size of the beat, bounces my pin all over the spot, at 50m. I shoot a good group...two of them, three inches apart. :lol:

[New Tricks]

p.s. Hahan't

[Patchy]

Valium

[2Dogs]

Jim Beam........... shooting pissed is tops :wink:

[dbjac]

it was mentioned in the coaching thingo today that, at the AIS top archers were measured. It was noted that their good shots, rated 7+/10 occured between beats, and the bad shots on the beat. He also said, that archers are rare in the ability to make the heart skip a beat on a bad shot. Something athletes from other sports have so far been unable to do. It was quite interesting.

[katzgrin]

At my age I'm just bloody happy that my heart is beating so I can shoot. :-?

[Shirt]

He also said, that archers are rare in the ability to make the heart skip a beat on a bad shot.

It's the thought that you've done something so catastrophically wrong that you're about to put an expensive bit of carbon into a cheap lump of concrete... gives you a small heart attack. :lol: :lol:

[c3]

I ran a heart rate monitor at last years US indoor Nationals and with a resting heart rate in the 50's I was up around 130 for the first few ends!

You ain't shooting anything between heart beats when you're redlining that far, that's for sure :)

Cheers,
Pete

[Progen]

50 bpm at rest. That's pretty slow. You must be one cool dude, C3. Could also mean that you're in pretty good shape. 130 bpms, well that sure is fast considering that what you're doing is basically standing there and only the upper body's being worked.

[reversehaven]

hmm. i was just wondering... does heart rate actualy affect your shooting? like yah i know it does contribute a bit to how stable on target is your sight pin.. but other than that?

I heard korean archers are trained to release in between heartbeats. how valid is that? anyone care to verify that they really do that or that it's possible to do that?

[Patchy]

I heard korean archers are trained to release in between heartbeats. how valid is that?

sounds like crap to me how could you possibly hear that with other bows going off, unless they feel it at there anchor. But then they wouldnt be concentrating on the X then would they

[dbjac]

From what i hear, they dont concentrate on aiming anyway, they focus on the target, and the target alone, the rest happens as a responce to that focus, the brain brings the bow up etc...

It wouldnt supprise me if they tried to train them to do this, but i imagine it would be very difficult to do.

[primal]

I heard korean archers are trained to release in between heartbeats. how valid is that? anyone care to verify that they really do that or that it's possible to do that?

how can you draw through a clicker to your heart beat... thats essentially punching...... :-?

[alexvpaq]

Damn you guyz are astonishing... even with only one year and a half i knew that me Heartbeat might change my arrow group... but that's not much, i also shot and learn that after badder shot my BPM goes higher and faster than on normal shot so I have to take 2 or 3 more deep breath to calm that to return to a low BPM
and damn, shooting btween BPM, Crazy STUFf! LOL
:-?

[Archangel]

I heard korean archers are trained to release in between heartbeats. how valid is that? anyone care to verify that they really do that or that it's possible to do that?
I don't believe that their heart rate is that low. I've heard of prone rifle shooters doing that, but they're down in the 40's; I don't think you could get it that slow and still be able to shoot a bow of any reasonable poundage.

[Progen]

You'd never know, Archangel. Most of them are like machines when shooting. You could watch a hundred shots and never know which is which. Until the day we get about a few hundred shots every single day, we'd never know, would we? If the part about them releasing in between heartbeats is true, it could also signify another thing about them. That their physical fitness is of a very high level, not just the nerves part. Not many plump ones among them right now, other than Chung Jae Hun perhaps.

[Archangel]

You'd never know, Archangel. Most of them are like machines when shooting. You could watch a hundred shots and never know which is why. Until the day we get about a few hundred shots every single day, we'd never know, would we? If the part about them releasing in between heartbeats is true, it could also signify another thing about them. That their physical fitness is of a very high level, not just the nerves part. Not many plump ones among them right now, other than Chung Jae Hun perhaps.
One of them a couple of years ago (Im I think?) was pretty plump too.

Personally I don't like to ascribe superhuman characteristics to them; their hearts still have to do work for them to shoot, and they do get nervous. Just because they're quite good at this game doesn't mean they don't work the same as the rest of us.

[hoyt for life 2]

You'd never know, Archangel. Most of them are like machines when shooting. You could watch a hundred shots and never know which is why. Until the day we get about a few hundred shots every single day, we'd never know, would we? If the part about them releasing in between heartbeats is true, it could also signify another thing about them. That their physical fitness is of a very high level, not just the nerves part. Not many plump ones among them right now, other than Chung Jae Hun perhaps.
One of them a couple of years ago (Im I think?) was pretty plump too.

Personally I don't like to ascribe superhuman characteristics to them; their hearts still have to do work for them to shoot, and they do get nervous. Just because they're quite good at this game doesn't mean they don't work the same as the rest of us.
maby they run off nuclear generators.

[Sagitarian]

I havent applied it to archery yet, but when shooting firearms at a advanced level you can benifit from being aware of your heart rate.

Its not mystical or superhuman, it just takes a bit of practice to become aware of it beating away. You have just got use to the beat of it over your lifetime.

It is important to note the heart is a multi chambered pump and its rythm is 'lub, dub, pause.' You dont try to shoot inbetween the lub, dub sound but in the pause after it.

[Progen]

Nah, nothing superhuman about them, Archangel. Just that they do shoot a lot and in the process of that, they've managed to attain a rather high level of physical fitness as well as consistency. Nerves affect everyone, perhaps even machines :lol: , but sometimes what we assume to be nerves is actually a lack of stamina. Heart beats faster to rejuvenate a fast tiring body and we attribute that to nerves so all we do is tell ourselves to keep calm at the next shoot instead of getting more physical workouts into our training routine.

[dbjac]

Nerves affect everyone

Apparently not Jim Park.

[James Park]

Nerves affect everyone

Apparently not Jim Park.
Correct. :P
However, you need to remember that my approach is the result of medical challenges back in 2001. I had a Pituitary tumour, the end result of which is removal of the Pituitary. Hence, I do not generate the normal hormones which the body needs to function. One of those is Adrenaline, which deals with getting you nervous.
(It is a simple operation: we could use a table in the clubhouse, a Black and Dekker drill, and a dentist's suction device, and you too could join the clan of non-nervous-getting archers).
The side effect is that you need to be on first name terms with the drug testing people (which I am).

[Progen]

No kidding, James? :o Something like that fella in that James Bond flick, 'The world is not enough'? No sensation.

[James Park]

It has the advantage that I don't get nervous.
However, that is also a disadvantage, as you do in fact need to get just a bit nervous to perform at your best. The trick is using your heart rate to both monitor and to control that level of nervousness to be the optimum.

Interestingly, I won the Australian Target Championships in 1999 when I was starting to suffer quite a lot from the effects of the tumour (although I did not know it at the time). Aside from not getting nervous from the lack of hormones, the lack of several of the hormones left me totally shattered physically after big events (physically a major challenge to drive home from the events). That is now fixed by a daily dose of (very restricted) pills, for which I very definitely need approval from the drugs people (and which I do have).

Someone wise (one of the ladies) commented several years ago that to help get me a little stressed it might be of advantage if the ladies all shot in the nude. If it did not help with my stress levels, it would at least put all my competitors well over their optimum stress levels, which would be good. :P

[2Dogs]

Depends on the Ladies :wink:

[Archangel]

Depends on the Ladies :wink:
I could suggest one or two... ;-)

It might have the advantage of raising the profile of archery to the public too - it works for beach volleyball...

[BrokenArr0w]

You'd never know, Archangel. Most of them are like machines when shooting. You could watch a hundred shots and never know which is which. Until the day we get about a few hundred shots every single day, we'd never know, would we? If the part about them releasing in between heartbeats is true, it could also signify another thing about them. That their physical fitness is of a very high level, not just the nerves part. Not many plump ones among them right now, other than Chung Jae Hun perhaps.

aheem.. meet jackson fear
http://www.mac.asn.au/Holdsworth%202005/MVC-797S.JPG

he aint skinny.. but sh*t.. have u seen him shoot :o

ive seen him shoot a 1313 mens fita.. then go inside to cool it off with a 292 indoor

[Progen]

Hey, let me slide on that one, BrokenArrow. I was referring to high levels of physical fitness resulting in low heart rates during shooting which then helps to be able to release IN BETWEEN heart beats. The plump part was just a dig at Chung Jae Hun especially after seeing him shoot at last year's Madrid.

ps. Who's the one using the scope on the extreme left? Seems pretty high.

[dbjac]

ROFL, selby, you know Jackson is on the forum... im sure he'll like that post. He's going to hurt you next time he's down here, im sure.

[New Tricks]

I would personally like to hit the heart beat archery release thing on the head. If an archer is consciously shooting between beats then they are in no way allowing the shot to happen by itself. They are anticipating. They are just a dirty arrow point away from target panic land. Been there and bought the T shirt.

[Archangel]

aheem.. meet jackson fear

he aint skinny.. but sh*t.. have u seen him shoot :o

ive seen him shoot a 1313 mens fita.. then go inside to cool it off with a 292 indoor
I have to say I wouldn't have recognised him - haven't seen him with the beard. But yes, I have seen him shoot before - first time was, oooh, twelve years ago now - back when he was shooting compound ;-)

[Sagitarian]

I would personally like to hit the heart beat archery release thing on the head. If an archer is consciously shooting between beats then they are in no way allowing the shot to happen by itself. They are anticipating. They are just a dirty arrow point away from target panic land. Been there and bought the T shirt.

Its more unconsciously aware, much like a musican keeps a beat while playing a tune.

IME its all in the prepwork, you learn to get the rythm then you just let the shoot out at the natural point which is the rest phase anyway.

Maybe it doesnt work, or its not of benifit for all archers though. It wont make a huge diffrence anyway if you observe it or not. As you dont move much due to heart rate, so long as your not over stressed.

[New Tricks]

OK, once again, heart rate and archery aiming are not in any way related. I think the heightened rate is just a sign of stress and it is the stress that ruins the aiming cycle. I shoot a compound bow which is all about aiming and have done much in the way of heart rate testing with a Timex device. Archery Aim is in no way comprimised by a heart beat from my experience. I have shot from 4 power to 8 power and have had vastly different fitness levels and have never ever seen a sight picture move with a heart beat. EVER.

[James Park]

An interesting test is to try a compound bow with no stabiliser. When I do that I can see the effects of heart beat. With the stabiliser I cannot see it.

[New Tricks]

I agree with James Park. Has the sky fallen?

[James Park]

I agree with James Park. Has the sky fallen?
Probably :P

[2Dogs]

New Tricks has no heart so his experiment should be classed as null and void....... especially during shootoffs :wink:


Jim & Alex agreeing............... c'mon what's the gag :rofl:

[Brocky]

:rofl:

[Marcus]

It is a simple operation: we could use a table in the clubhouse, a Black and Dekker drill, and a dentist's suction device, and you too could join the clan of non-nervous-getting archers
Where do I sign?