Version 6

[James Park]

At this stage, just to let you know what I am up to:
The current version is 5.5.9
I am creating a new version. It will use mostly all the same algorithms, etc, so the results will be about the same. The user interface will be different (to optimise the user's experience, building on feedback over the past few years). Overall, I am trying to make it simpler.
I am also trying to significantly simplify the challenges of updating things like arrow and bow types (and the vast mass of data this currently involves).
This is no small undertaking as there are currently over 100 pages of quite complex code. Hence, don't expect it next week. :P As it gets a bit closer I will seek a couple of volunteers to test it (but not just yet).

[dbjac]

Cool! So it is likely to include the bowtechs? or did the most recent one have them as well?
The one i have doesnt :( it doesnt effect the functionality at all, it just prints a different bow on all my sight settings :(

[James Park]

In the current versions just can just select the field and type in any bow model you wish.

[James Park]

Also, if you have version 5.5.8 or 5.5.9, have a look in the "Settings" file in the C: directory.
There you will find a file called "BowList".
You can open that file with Notepad. It contains a set of user defined bow models (it will currently list a couple of mine).
If you are brave you can edit it to include all your current bows. Follow the instructions carefully.
They will then appear in the list of bows in Accurate Sights.
If it all turns to manure, simply delete the file (it will be recreated next time you open the application).

[dbjac]

oh cool, thats a good way of doing it.

Other than that, i am very pleased with the program, well done jim.
When the measurements are correct, its right on the money. Though, it is subject to the unavoidable law of sh*t in sh*t out... but that is more of a PLBKAC.

[Pete]

But can it help me make a cheese sandwich?

[The One]

But can it help me make a cheese sandwich?

Yes

[Glenn Ryan]

Jim, what language is it currently written in? I speak out of curiosity as I'm a programmer.

If you want to bounce ideas, I'm all ears so to speak.

Cheers,
Glenn.

[Bruce]

How about aMac version Jim ??? :D

[Chris Madeley]

A mac version would be great! I don't think there's any software like this available for mac at the moment, and I know quite a few archers who are mac users.

You could call it iSight

[James Park]

Glenn,
It is written in Visual Basic. (Which I have found to be quite good: easy to write and to debug). The challenges I have occassionally had are mostly Bill Gates' issues (his program sometimes does odd things on his operating system).

No. No Mac version.

[Marcus]

A mac version would be great! I don't think there's any software like this available for mac at the moment, and I know quite a few archers who are mac users.

You could call it iSightYeah I want a Mac version too, perhaps it can be my project after the indoors, with Jim's help of course. :)

iSight = Massive lawsuit I suspect. :lol:

[Glenn Ryan]

Jim, are you looking at re-writing this in one of the .NET languages or something else? I mention this because as far as I'm aware, Microsoft has dropped support for VB6...

Cheers,
Glenn.

[James Park]

Glenn,
I would like to use VB2005, but have not been able to find somewhere to buy a copy. Hence, currently using VB6.

[Glenn Ryan]

Jim, you might be able to get away with Microsft VB.NET Express Edition, which is a free IDE, however, if you are not familiar with the VB.NET language, there is a big learning curve involved, as vb.net is radically different from classic VB. You would almost be better learning C# (one of the languages I use) and Visual C# Express Edition as the learning curve is only a bit more than previously stated.

BTW, all the Express edition versions include SQL Server 2005 Express as well, so if you're not using a dbase backend for your data, this would give a nice solution. You could also go XML configuration files as well.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Glenn.

[BrokenArr0w]

nah.. bring on the MAC version jim, that would be great

[Pete]

Will this be a free upgrade or will there be a cost?

[Clare Barnes]

Will this be a free upgrade or will there be a cost?
The ordinary version or the cheese sandwich one?

[Archangel]

Jim, you might be able to get away with Microsft VB.NET Express Edition, which is a free IDE, however, if you are not familiar with the VB.NET language, there is a big learning curve involved, as vb.net is radically different from classic VB. You would almost be better learning C# (one of the languages I use) and Visual C# Express Edition as the learning curve is only a bit more than previously stated.

BTW, all the Express edition versions include SQL Server 2005 Express as well, so if you're not using a dbase backend for your data, this would give a nice solution. You could also go XML configuration files as well.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Glenn.
SQL Server (of any version) is _massive_ overkill for something like Accurate Sights. The last version of AS I used was like 5MB or something - you don't need hundreds of MB of some enormous bloody database to drive that!
If you needed a database (which I'm not sure you would?) then something basic like Jet would be quite adequate - you don't need SQL Server's multiuser setup for a single-user application.

IMNSHO, XML configuration files are a pain in the ass - and anyway, AS has a format to save it's data in. Why change it when it works?

Of course, the program would be better in C++, but I can see why Jim might not have wanted to learn/use that :-D

[James Park]

What I tried to do in the current versions of Accurate Sights was to have comprehensive data on all arrow types and a list of all bows. That would then enable the user to simply select from the menus without having to measure any of that data.
That aim makes life pretty challenging for the programmer:
- The bow manufacturers keep making new ones. Then what happens is that everytime a manufacturer comes out with a new range I get a rush of users wanting me to update it and send them a new one.
- There is a vast amount of data for arrows, and for different types of arrows you need to store different things. Just trying to list things like possible point weights and nock bushings is a substantial challenge. I have considered using a database for this, but the significant length of things you need to cover is a little daunting.
- From all the possibilities for arrow components, I then calculate the likely arrow weight - here you do get variations from what I calculate to what the user's arriows actually weight (although it does not matter much in the sight calculations). I have had many questions on what to do when these differ. The weight is needed for the drag calculations, but an approximate weight is actually sufficient.
- I also get many requests to "add my bow model please".

Aside from the major amount of code to deal with all the above, it is quite complex to change and update. Hence, I will try to get around that approach altogether (but still make it easy to use). For example, I will not embed a list of bows at all, but simply let you type in whatever you want (which you can actually do now).

[Glenn Ryan]

Archangel,

I also use C++, however, I agree, it would be overkill. The express version's use SQL server Exrpess and it is designed specifically for a single user desktop scenario....hmmm...much like Accurate sights is.

You attach/create the dbase file when you're writing the program and then ship the dbase file with the application...it's actually quite lightweight, nowhere near 100's of mb's...about 50mb from memory for SQL Express by itself and can be embedded in your installer or on the CD or whatever media you choose.

By the way, SQL Express is a SINGLE user setup by default - you have to turn on multi-user capability specifically.

I personally think it would be perfect for what Jim is looking for.

Cheers,
Glenn.

[Archangel]

Okay, I misunderstood slightly - Express is clearly much smaller than SQL Server itself. I guess this is a case of Microsoft trying to get some play out of the brand, despite the products not being entirely similar.

Still, I think it's overkill installing even a 50MB database for it - the program's only a fraction of that! Once upon a time Jet and a CSV file would have been adequate...

Oh, and while I meant that SQL Server would be overkill, C++ wouldn't be - it'd be faster :-)

[Eberbachl]

Bring on the Mac version.

:D

The only thing I need a PC for these days is Accurate Sights ;)

[BrokenArr0w]

hehe. virtual pc would work luke :wink:

but it doesnt work with the intel core macs.. so i cant do it..

i suppose i could get off my arse and install bootcamp + win XP, but its way easier if jim makes a mac vs :D

[New Tricks]

So in summary. I have this program. Is the upgrade free?

[Eberbachl]

hehe. virtual pc would work luke :wink:

but it doesnt work with the intel core macs.. so i cant do it..

i suppose i could get off my a*se and install bootcamp + win XP, but its way easier if jim makes a mac vs :D

Very true - but I hate the fact that I have to dirty up my Mac with a Virtual copy of Windows just for Accurate sights ;)

...maybe I should just splurge and buy me a nice new Macbook Intel Mac, and run OSX for everything with Windows XP via Bootcamp just for Accurate Sights ;)

:D

...must...resist...temptation!

[BrokenArr0w]

hehe.. i gave in, i got a mac book pro.. they rock! :D

still havent put on XP yet...

[dbjac]

no you didnt selby, tell the reeeeal story. :wink:
What he means by gave in and got the mac book pro, is that is powerbook blew up, and mac replaced it with a mac book pro :wink: :lol:

[Archangel]

hehe. virtual pc would work luke :wink:

but it doesnt work with the intel core macs.. so i cant do it..

i suppose i could get off my a*se and install bootcamp + win XP, but its way easier if jim makes a mac vs :D

Very true - but I hate the fact that I have to dirty up my Mac with a Virtual copy of Windows just for Accurate sights ;)

...maybe I should just splurge and buy me a nice new Macbook Intel Mac, and run OSX for everything with Windows XP via Bootcamp just for Accurate Sights ;)

:D

...must...resist...temptation!
Theoretically you could use Wine on a Macbook, once there's an OSX version anyway. Of course the last time I tried Wine with AS it didn't work - colour me surprised...

[BrokenArr0w]

it didnt blow up... it was the power adapter that blew up..... and then 6 other things inside it buggered up...

and they wanted to replace it with another powerbook, so f that.. got a mac book pro

[pgba]

Hi James
Having recently just bought Accurate Sights, And its just sooo good, I'd also like toknow if the version 6 is a free update or do I need to pay for it..
My version is 5.5.5 so it looks as though there have been a couple of releases since my purchase.
Cheers
Paul B

[James Park]

Paul,
Have not decided policy on V6 yet (not yet finished, and it will be a bit different - while I have quite a lot already going, there is quite a lot still to do and it is not the sort of thing I can rush, especially where I am making refinements to the algorithms used and print formats).
The current version is 5.5.9 (almost the same as 5.5.8 ). Happy to email it to current customers as a free update (I try to batch these emails if I can).

[pgba]

Thanks for the update James.
Cheers
Paul

[Peter King]

Jim,
Do you expect to eliminate the current AS incompatibility with some Bill Gates/inc XP PRO hardware/software configurations? I still have a copy that won't run on a new high end Dell.

[James Park]

Peter,
Sure hoping to.

[James Park]

I am adding an option to add the sight markings for a slope of 20 degrees to the printed sight tape as well as the normal markings for flat ground. This should directly assist archers on steep field courses (and can be ignored for those who do not want it).

[Marcus]

Used the new version yesterday and shot a PB down the field course. The new layout is excellent.

Also heard that 2004 World Field Champ Chris White uses it to practise guaging. Pretty neat.

[James Park]

I now have Version 6 finished (I think).
I have undertaken quite a massive restructuring with a view to easier maintenance and an updated user interface.
Most of the capabilities are similar to Version 5. Differences include:
- I have for the time being removed the bow tuning part (I will add it again later). All the other previous capability is still there.
- I have included the score index calculation as in the Archery Australia Rule Book for all the FITA rounds, including field (yes, I do have permission from AA).
- I have arranged for it to startup faster than previously.
- There are many more traps for users making mistakes in data input.
- All the calculations now happen "live" as you change the data (there is now no "calculate" button).
- I have replaced the algorithm for wind drift (a better way of doing the modelling - a very complex area).
- I have made minor adjustments to several of the other algorithms (in particular to the drag calculation and to that for the arrow trajectory), although the effect on the calculated sight settings is very minor indeed.
- You can now input two sight settings and have the program calculate the sight gap if you know how many threads per inch are on the sight adjustment screw (most are 24 or 32 per inch).
- The controls for printing the sight tape are much cleverer. The on-screen view of the sight tape now changes dynamically as you change the variables.
- I have included settings for slope on the printed sight tape. This should be of major assistance to those shooting on steep field courses.
- For just about every input variable you can either select from a list or just type the value in, or use the mouse wheel to scroll (with the calculations happening live as you scroll - it is pretty neat).
- You can now more easily relate canting to what you see with your bubble.
- There is now much more, easily accessible, help information and quite a few more tool tips.
- I no longer store arrow and bow data in the program in order to make it easy to look after.
- In the saved data file name I have included the date, so that you can know which saved data file is which.
- I have included an indication of the sight clearance and the maximum distance you will be able to get on your sight.

I have had four Beta Testers: Marcus, Chris Lewkowski, dbjac and Leigh Cornish. Their assistance has been invaluable: finding bugs and making suggestions as to how the program should look and feel, as well as its functionality. They have been very tolerant of the many versions I have sent them to test. They found bugs that I would never have found. Hopefully the program is now in good shape (although I am pretty sure that people will still find more bugs - always the way with these things, or things that they would prefer to be different or have added).

Chris used the new program last weekend to produce a new sight tape for a FITA Field round in WA. He broke the WA record with 337 using a recurve bow. This is a World Class score, and would easily get him into the cut at the World FITA Field Championships. I like to think that it was the program, but actually it was marvellously good shooting (plus some good sight settings).

The plan is that it will be made available only via Marcus by software download, so that we can more readily keep track of things like who needs updates, etc. It will not be a free update from version 5 however, but those who purchased Version 5 will get a discount. Version 5 will, of course, still function perfectly well

[Flex]

I'am looking forward to it. Though I have no complaints about ver 5 ..

[dbjac]

Its an excellent program. it was already amazing, now its even better.

Jim, Thanks for allowing me to help you out.

[Glenn Ryan]

Jim, did you end up re-writing it in VB.NET?

[James Park]

Glenn,
All done in VB6.
I next plan to do it in RealBasic for Macs.

[Glenn Ryan]

Jim,

With reference to my previous posts; 'tis something you should look at for the future:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/ctp_sqleverywhere.mspx

[Normie]

g'day

is version 6 now available @ urban? or is it being tested and v5.---- the latest for downloading on purchase?

[James Park]

It should soon be available from Marcus at Urban.
(Just as soon as Marcus can get it loaded on the web).
As I noted above, my testers have had a pretty good go at it, and it seems to be all in good shape (no doubt there will still be a few bugs, but as we discover them I will provide rapid fixes).
The download will be about 2 MBytes.
Those who already have V5 will only need to download the executable rather than all the VB files, so that download is much smaller.

[Archangel]

Jim,

With reference to my previous posts; 'tis something you should look at for the future:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/ctp_sqleverywhere.mspx
I'll leap in to disagree again: just because Microsoft have a web page with lots of buzzwords doesn't make it a good idea. I bet it would be quite awkward for his Mac version, for example.

[Peter King]

It should soon be available from Marcus at Urban.
(Just as soon as Marcus can get it loaded on the web).
As I noted above, my testers have had a pretty good go at it, and it seems to be all in good shape (no doubt there will still be a few bugs, but as we discover them I will provide rapid fixes).
The download will be about 2 MBytes.
Those who already have V5 will only need to download the executable rather than all the VB files, so that download is much smaller.


Sounds good. Have the testers run it on a variety of XP pro/hardware configs, and
will the separate executable download effect the discount for V5 owners?

Any idea how soo, Marcus?

[Marcus]

There are a variety of things I wish to do before we release version 6 on the masses, so I would say in the next few days.
The Mac version will be a major revolution in archery as no commercial Mac sight setting products exist.

[Bruce]

I am really looking forward to seeing a mac version of Acurate sights one day . Good luck with its developement


Bruce

[Stace]

The lack of Mac software is really disappointing.

It's certainly something that I would take advantage of should it become available.

[REIDY]

Hi Jim / Marcus,

Any further news on when this is available?

Pete

[NOCK HUNTER]

There's a few of us interested :smile:

[Normie]

some have even ordered :D

[Marcus]

Hi Jim / Marcus,

Any further news on when this is available?

Pete
Sorry guys my fault.
Hopefully will have it ready for download tomorrow.

[Stace]

Are you talking about the Mac version or Windows, Marcus?

[Marcus]

Windows version.

[paulrb]

A mac version would be great! I don't think there's any software like this available for mac at the moment, and I know quite a few archers who are mac users.

You could call it iSight[/QUOTE]



This can't be too hard to do. Id be prepared to pay double for a Mac version...... although I hope i don't have to!!

[dbjac]

:o they should have the death sentence for people that tell jokes like that :lol:

[Marcus]

You can now purchase an upgrade from v5 to v6 for those who purchased previously from Urban Archery

http://urbanarchery.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=644

[paulrb]

:o they should have the death sentence for people that tell jokes like that :lol:

So what is it gonna be.... death by.......

Make it good!!

[bigfella]

So Jim, for those who purchased through you, what is the upgrade procedure and cost?

Thanks

Mike

[James Park]

All the purchases now need to go through Urban - that we we can manage the versions, upgrades, etc, much easier.
You can download the software and it will do everything except print until you get the licence.
Yes, there is a reduced price if you purchased the previous version.
Version 5 will keep working of course, but my effort is now going into Version 6.

[REIDY]

Jim,

I have just ordered my copy of AS.

Does it have a calculation that can tell me where in the Sherbrooke swamp to find my arrow after shooting from 50m with my 90m setting?

It probably would have to calculate in a stupidity factor, but it is really that "whole set of arrows" rule rearing its ugly head again.

Pete

[Archangel]

You don't need AS for that - it's in the deepest, muddiest part of the swamp of course ;-)

[James Park]

I have added the ability to select a printer from all those the PC can see.
One nifty feature now is that if you have a label printer (as does DVA at the club), you can print the sight settings directly onto the thermal label (which is waterproof) and then stick it directly on your sight bar.
For field archers, I have also added the amount to allow for slopes (it has always told you the sight setting for slopes, but some archers said they would like to know how many Metres to take off, as well).
In addition, I have further added to the help pages and have added the ability to save some notes about your sight settings.

[Colin]

Thanks Jim, Label printer works Very Well.:thumb:

[Tuck]

I purchased the 1999 version 5.4.0 at least a couple of years ago. Excellent program even in its 1999 release. How do I go about purchasing an update? :confused:

[James Park]

I purchased the 1999 version 5.4.0 at least a couple of years ago. Excellent program even in its 1999 release. How do I go about purchasing an update? :confused:
From the Urban Archery web site.
The latest version is now 6.0.5

[James Park]

I have made quite a few changes recently.
One of those is how I show the position of the arrow and the scope in relation to the sight markings. It shows you the furthest distance you will be able to get on your sight still allowing 10mm clearance between the fletches and the scope. The size of the scope and height of the fletches changes in accord with your input data, the orientation of the fletches is shown according to whether you selected compound or recurve.
Also, I have included many more of the small boxes with question marks, so that should answer many of your questions about what to do.
In the screen shot below, I have also selected the "Show -20 degree marks" for field shooting (they will give you very accurate settings for shooting 20 degrees down hill; for 20 degrees up hill you take of a little less; for 10 degrees you use about 1/3 of the 20 degree correction). They are the small blue marks - they will also be printed on the sight tape.
The small "5" is the sight setting for 5M, the printed tape also has 6M. The settings can, of course, be in Yards if that is what you wish.

[Marcus]

People will be able to download the update to version 6.0.5 this weekend.

[GrahamT]

James like (i suspect) a few, I bought the V5 version direct from you.
The Urban Urchery site says the upgrade is available ONLY for those who bought the V5 from THEM.
Does that mean I have to buy the FULL V6 version from UA to get V6

Can you clarify please?

[James Park]

James like (i suspect) a few, I bought the V5 version direct from you.
The Urban Urchery site says the upgrade is available ONLY for those who bought the V5 from THEM.
Does that mean I have to buy the FULL V6 version from UA to get V6

Can you clarify please?
If you purchased V5 from me, then you need to advise Urban of that when you order the upgrade. That should work.

[James Park]

This is the Score Index form in V6.0.5. It lets you calculate the index for a score and will show you the expected range totals, including X's. Also, it shows you the expected Standard Deviation of your group size at each range (that is, the circle into which 68% of your arrows should fall). I have included all of the FITA rounds including field, just about all of the Archery Australia Rounds, and many of the UK rounds. You can pretty easily compare the score for one round with the expected score for a different round. It is shown here for the FITA World Record of 1414. I can reasonably easily add additional rounds if needed.