Tuning 101

[Quackor]

Hello everyone, this is the token newb of the forum speaking.

Bowtuning is complicated, and when I say complicated, I mean complicated like US foreign policy complicated. So many things to fix, it's easier to just not do anything than figure out where to start.

I saw a few articles regarding bowtuning but they were all... well not user friendly.
So what I want to ask you guys, is either :
A) (The hard way) Make this post sticky and collectively compose our own step-by-step bowtuning guide aimed for those who are just starting to tune as well as those who are experienced but look for greater insight into specific steps.

B) (The lazy way) Post a link to a website, or a titile of a book that already did what I described in point A)

Thank you ^^

[Archangel]

Okay, a quick 101:
- Set centreshot using your Beiter limb gauges which you purchased earlier. Basically everything should be in line; the string should sit down the centre of both limbs, and the riser.
- Adjust the button so the arrow is pointing slightly outside the string.
- Set up the static tiller so the top limb measurement (from the base of the limb to the string) is about 1/8" to 1/4" greater than the bottom one. This is just a kicking off point, so once it's done don't worry about it again.
- Set the dynamic tiller by drawing the bow back level while aiming at a point. If the sight wants to drift up, the top limb's too strong; if down, the bottom one is. Adjust limbs until it's balanced.
- Wait for a calm day.
- Go to 30m and adjust button and nocking spot until the bare shaft(s) impact in the middle of the group. This is much easier with 3 bare shafts than 1.
If the bare shafts are going left of the fletched shafts, soften the button; stiffen the button if they're to the right. Reverse if you're left handed.
If they're going high, raise the nocking spot. Lower it if they're going low.
- Go back to 70m, or some distance where you're fairly comfortable shooting decent groups. Group test your arrows - basically if they're in a group that's wider than it is high, adjust the button; if the grou's higher than it is wide, adjust the nocking spot. It's pretty much trial and error which way to go; once you get the hang of it, the group will move from one to the other as the button and nocking spot swap places for which is 'more wrong' than the other. Eventually you'll reach a pretty good group that's roughly circular; that's it!

This stuff is lots easier if someone can show you how to do it in person, especially some of the fine details that I've skipped over - it's cold here this morning, my fingers might fall off if I type too much.

[James Park]

You can find a lot of this in "Mastering Bow Tuning", available from Urban Archery.

[Jay.G]

Have you had a look at the Easton arrow tuning guard? on www.eastonarchery.com.

[Quackor]

OK yeah... thank you for your post Archangel, I have SOOO many questions about every step it's not even funny. I guess next time I'm shooting at local range I'll try and smile nicely at archers more experienced than me and try to get them to take my hand and walk me thru it.
But yeah, what you said definitely helps, thanks again.

[Archangel]

OK yeah... thank you for your post Archangel, I have SOOO many questions about every step it's not even funny. I guess next time I'm shooting at local range I'll try and smile nicely at archers more experienced than me and try to get them to take my hand and walk me thru it.
But yeah, what you said definitely helps, thanks again.
Yeah, to go in depth would fill a small book. There's no substitute for experience anyway :-)

[Sandy Hancock]

While nothing Archangel says is wrong, he's left out a (arguably *the*) vital step: matching the arrow spine to the bow.

With finger shooting, the arrow must be flexing in the right direction at the right time to clear the rest/button/clicker as it leaves the bow.

To do this the launch speed must be appropriate for the resonant frequency of the arrow (and the brace height too I guess).

First the bow must be set up properly - limbs and riser aligned, brace height optimized, limb tiller and nocking point height within the usual recommended limits.

Replace the spring in the plunger with a stiff rod and set the the button to centreshot. If bare shafts group to the left of the the fletched arrows, increase draw weight (for a right handed archer), if they group to the right, decrease poundage.

If you can't get them close, the arrows are the wrong spine and anything else you do will not achieve an optimal tune. You can make minor compensations with shaft length or point weight, but beyond that new limbs or new arrows are the only option.

Once you have the draw weight and the arrow spine matched appropriately, than you can fine tune using the pressure button as per Archangel's description.

And yes, it's all in Jim's book.

[frommy]

Quackor,

I can also advise that Jim's book is very good indeed. In your neck of the woods you could have a look at the Texas Archery website where Ron Carmichael has built up a huge collection of material. In particular, you should find "Tuning for Tens" by Rick Stonebreaker useful.

Brian

[Archangel]

While nothing Archangel says is wrong, he's left out a (arguably *the*) vital step: matching the arrow spine to the bow.
Fair enough; in the interests of brevity I'd assumed they already had arrows and that they didn't choose the wrong set. Like I said, to do this properly you need quite a bit of room - or at least the willingness to do a lot more typing than I felt like ;-)

[Area_D]

While I agree with Sandy & Archangel, IMHO the very first step is to match the bow to the archer.

If the bow doesn't fit the archer, then the rest of it is not going to help.

One of the better bow mechanics around here describes tuning as a trilogy. The three parts are the bow, the arrow and most important the archer. All three parts have to work together to achieve the optimum tune.

Of course if the archer is not consistent, then the rest of it is still not going to help.

For most beginners, once they have a bow that fits and arrows that are spined correctly to the bow, then a basic "eyeball" tune will suffice. Set the nock at 90 degrees or slightly higher and set the centershot to line up with the string and then spend time working on form. For target shooting, the rest of it is a waste of time until you have consistent form.

For hunting, I would like to see a good paper tune, because that means that good arrow flight has been achieved and the arrow is delivering the most kinetic energy within the limits of the equipment.

[Archangel]

For hunting, I would like to see a good paper tune, because that means that good arrow flight has been achieved and the arrow is delivering the most kinetic energy within the limits of the equipment.
Tuning doesn't alter the amount of kinetic energy delivered to the arrow very significantly - if it did, you'd be able to tune to the place where your arrows impacted highest on the target.

[Sandy Hancock]

Set the nock at 90 degrees or slightly higher and set the centershot to line up with the string

I suspect you are talking about compound shooting. Quackor shoots freestyle recurve so these settings would be hopeless.:oops:

[Archangel]

I suspect you are talking about compound shooting. Quackor shoots freestyle recurve so these settings would be hopeless.:oops:
How so? The nocking spot would probably be a bit higher, sure, but he wasn't _that_ far wrong. The description of the centreshot is simplistic, I'd say optimal is very slightly offset, but dead in line is far from hopeless.

Incidentally, Quackor didn't mention what kind of bow he shoots, so I assumed he was after some general tuning advice and getting a bit of a discussion going, rather than everything pertaining exactly to his setup.

[Area_D]

Tuning doesn't alter the amount of kinetic energy delivered to the arrow very significantly - if it did, you'd be able to tune to the place where your arrows impacted highest on the target.

If the system is slightly out of tune, you are right.

However, if an arrow is porposing or fishtailing to the degree that it impacts the animal at an angle, the KE is wasted on straightening out the arrow.

Target accuracy for shooting at known distances is not significantly effected by tune. We've all heard the story of Terry Ragsdale winning an important tournament then going home and checking his bow with the new (at the time) paper tuning. He got a 2" tear.

In a hunting situation a system that is giving you a 2" tear is not going to get the same penetration as a system that is tuned to near bullet hole. But you are right that the difference between a bullet hole and a small tear is not significant.

Sandy,
Yes, I am describing a compound bow. I don't know Quackor and didn't see where he is asking about recurves only. The details are certainly different but I'll stay with the idea that a beginner is better served by using their archery time developing a consistant form rather than tinkering with tuning.

Thank you,
Allen

[Sandy Hancock]

How so? The nocking spot would probably be a bit higher, sure, but he wasn't _that_ far wrong. The description of the centreshot is simplistic, I'd say optimal is very slightly offset, but dead in line is far from hopeless.

A square nocking point and dead straight centre shot sure sound like compound setup to me. I wasn't nocking the advice, just it's applicability for Quackor's needs.

Incidentally, Quackor didn't mention what kind of bow he shoots, so I assumed he was after some general tuning advice and getting a bit of a discussion going, rather than everything pertaining exactly to his setup.

Well I dug this out of the archives.....
Hello, I'm new to this hobby, but I got really into it, and am planning a purchase of my first set.
I shot a starter-class recurve for about a month now, and am looking for something that would be fit for competing.
The local archery store I went to adviced me to get a Hoyt Eclipse riser and a pair of Hoyt limbs to go with it. The price for this set seemed like the top of my budget, but I was wondering if the Hoyt set was indeed a best choice for me.
So if anyone could tell me what are their suggestions on this, and maybe what are comparable quality sets by other manufactureres, I would be really grateful. Thanks!

[Archangel]

If the system is slightly out of tune, you are right.

However, if an arrow is porposing or fishtailing to the degree that it impacts the animal at an angle, the KE is wasted on straightening out the arrow.

Target accuracy for shooting at known distances is not significantly effected by tune. We've all heard the story of Terry Ragsdale winning an important tournament then going home and checking his bow with the new (at the time) paper tuning. He got a 2" tear.

In a hunting situation a system that is giving you a 2" tear is not going to get the same penetration as a system that is tuned to near bullet hole. But you are right that the difference between a bullet hole and a small tear is not significant.
Nope, I still disagree. As I said, if the KE imparted to the arrow was significantly different, they'd impact noticeably higher and fly faster when you tuned it right. This doesn't happen.

Target accuracy _is_ significantly affected by tune. Why else do we bother doing it? It's certainly not for speed...
Sure, Terry Ragsdale may have shot well with badly tuned equipment, there are lots of stories like that. A good archer can shoot well with badly set up gear, but it's still easier if the gear is well set up.

Don't go confusing penetration with kinetic energy. You probably do get less penetration from a badly tuned bow, but that's because the arrow doesn't hit the target straight, so it wastes a lot of energy making a wider hole than it has to. However it still had pretty much the same amount of kinetic energy as one that did hit it straight.

[Archangel]

Well I dug this out of the archives.....
Clearly I failed to do a thorough background check before posting. My apologies :roll:

[Eberbachl]

However it still had pretty much the same amount of kinetic energy as one that did hit it straight.

Of course your right that two arrows hitting a target with the same amount of kinetic energy will have different levels of penetration if one impacts straight on and one does not.

Although, in addition could the poorly tuned arrow have lost some kinetic energy before hitting the target because of drag incured from poor arrow flight?

[Archangel]

Of course your right that two arrows hitting a target with the same amount of kinetic energy will have different levels of penetration if one impacts straight on and one does not.

Although, in addition could the poorly tuned arrow have lost some kinetic energy before hitting the target because of drag incured from poor arrow flight?
Some I imagine, but losing kinetic energy means it's losing velocity, so it can't lose too much or it wouldn't reach the target :-)

The poorly tuned arrow is going to be vibrating more, which means it's rapidly translating elastic potential energy to kinetic and back again, but I suspect there's very little energy involved compared to the KE involved in it's forward motion. Since KE is related to the square of the velocity, and the arrow's flying fast, it's got a lot of energy; whereas it doesn't take much effort to bend an arrow somewhat. If I thought about it I suppose I could calculate both, but at the moment my brain's full of revision for other things :-(

[Area_D]

[QUOTE=Archangel]
Target accuracy _is_ significantly affected by tune. Why else do we bother doing it? It's certainly not for speed...
QUOTE]

Target accuracy is not effected by by bow tune (beyond the basics) except at the very highest levels of archery. Since this tread is titled tuning 101, the most basic tuning tip is to be sure that the bow fits the archer and the arrows are spined correctly to the bow.

Be it compound or recurve, a good bow mechanic can set up a bow in 10 minutes that will delivery all the accuracy that 95% + of archers can achieve. A beginner's form is simply not consistent enough to get any benefits from tiller, creep, walkback, group and other tuning methods.

Once an archer is approaching consistent form, some of these methods may help pick up a few points, but not many. An hour of coaching or practice will give a beginner much more benefit than an hour of tuning.

I won't disagree with you about KE. I'm not an engineer. However, good arrow flight will give better penetration and a surer kill than poor arrow flight. So including paper tuning at 2 or 3 distances is appropriate for a hunting rig.

[Archangel]

Target accuracy is not effected by by bow tune (beyond the basics) except at the very highest levels of archery. Since this tread is titled tuning 101, the most basic tuning tip is to be sure that the bow fits the archer and the arrows are spined correctly to the bow.
Correct, the thread is titled tuning 101. This implies that we actually want to discuss tuning, not ignore it because it's not appropriate for beginners.
If you take a Maths 101 course, it'd be far too complex for a 5-year-old to follow, but that doesn't mean there aren't people out there that can't benefit from it.

You are of course correct that the most basic thing is getting the right gear in the first place, but stop acting like that's the end of it.