Continuous draw

[Quackor]

So I am being taught that I should not stop the backward movement of my drawing hand when I'm shooting... as in I should slowly predraw, draw, settle in my anchor (while pulling) and then slow down, BUT NOT STOP, just so I have enough time for aiming before the clicker goes off and I have to release.

I understand it only applies to recurve shooters, but just how important is it? I guess I'm asking... are there professional/olympic shooters who actually STOP the draw to aim, and then resume it to pull it past the clicker, or not?

[Progen]

...
I understand it only applies to recurve shooters, but just how important is it? I guess I'm asking... are there professional/olympic shooters who actually STOP the draw to aim, and then resume it to pull it past the clicker, or not?

Unless they're doing it differently on the sly, everyone of Ki Sik and coaches under him, should be at full stop during the aiming process. His method teaches expansion and usage of the lower scapula. So that means to execute a low draw to a point a few inches below the chin, then raise the drawing hand below the chin, anchor, STOP, aim, expand and release.

Now I'm the one bringing Ki Sik too often into discussion. :oops:

[Bulls On Parade]

Unless they're doing it differently on the sly, everyone of Ki Sik and coaches under him, should be at full stop during the aiming process. His method teaches expansion and usage of the lower scapula. So that means to execute a low draw to a point a few inches below the chin, then raise the drawing hand below the chin, anchor, STOP, aim, expand and release.

that's interesting. where did you hear mr lee say that? everytime i have heard him, or any other high performance coach for that matter, talk or write about this, it must be only fluid, constant motion; it cannot stop at all.

it takes a lot more energy to start the expansion once you've stopped drawing the string than it does to keep it in one constant motion.

Progen, besides, you don't expand using the "lower" scapula (there's no such thing!). you expand by pulling the scapulae together in tightening the lower trapezius.

but you're right, drawing the string low and then raising up to your anchor point is a good way in helping to set up the proper shooting structure.

Quackor, it helps to think of the shot process as a continuous sequence of stages, each of which overlaps with the next. once stage smoothly merges into another, but there isnt a distinct stopping and starting of any stage. you must flow from one stage into another very delicately. the aiming process, however, will subconciously take place during the other stages.

for me, when i draw the string, i keep my back shoulder as low as i possibly can, with my drawing arm roughy parallel with a horizontal plane. i draw the string, whilst maintaining a low back shoulder, which will lower my back scapula. this will transfer the majority of the weight into the lower trapezius, which should be the dominant muscle in pulling the scapulae together.

however, you will never get all of the force into one muscle; there's always going to be other muscles at work during the expansion, regardless.

but yes, your coach is right. you should not stop the drawing, it should only slow down.

to date, i haven't seen one top recurve archer who stops drawing, and then starts again. it's highly inefficient.

[Quackor]

it takes a lot more energy to start the expansion once you've stopped drawing the string than it does to keep it in one constant motion.


Yeah that's exactly what he told me, and it makes physical sense to me. Up until yesterday I would actually stop, aim and expand, but since yesterday I'm learning the continuous technique.
I noticed that I spend a lot less time per shot (thus getting much less tired), and so far my performance seems slightly better, than with previous technique.

[Progen]

Just for the sake of discussion in this subject, let me quote from Ki Sik's Shot Cycle posted on his website and which I think can be found in Total Archery. I'm a pure puller which means I pull continuously but bear with me just for the sake of argument.

[QUOTE=http://www.kslinternationalarchery.com/ShotCycleEnglish.htm]When we draw the string to the anchor point one has to use at least some upper arm, forearm and hand muscles as the string can not be pulled back by just the back muscles alone. Therefore, in order to come to the holding position, some time needs to be taken for the draw load and unwanted tension in the draw hand, upper and forearm and also the bow hand to be transferred onto the lower back muscles. The transfer/loading process should take about half a second. [B]It should be clear that the teaching method of

[Bulls On Parade]

good resource.

i wouldn't agree with the theory of "continous external movement". it's all internal for me, or feels it anyway.

don't get me wrong, you will still hold to some extent. however, there will always be a slight expansion, to some extent. as i said before, it takes more energy to keep the flow happening once you've stopped it, and therefore is inefficient. i've got the 'total archery' book lying around here somewhere. i should read over it again to refresh myself on the theory.

[Progen]

good resource.

i wouldn't agree with the theory of "continous external movement". it's all internal for me, or feels it anyway.

don't get me wrong, you will still hold to some extent. however, there will always be a slight expansion, to some extent. as i said before, it takes more energy to keep the flow happening once you've stopped it, and therefore is inefficient. i've got the 'total archery' book lying around here somewhere. i should read over it again to refresh myself on the theory.


That part is darned right and affects all of us. That's why Ki Sik teached using internal expansion resulting in external movement. Or was it the other way round? :confused: :grin: I know what it means, I've tried it before, it worked fine without a bow but with a bow in the hand and an X to be hit, a million and five factors come into play. :-(

[Quackor]

yeaaa... you guys are just way too confusing for me. I think I'll just focus on not stopping for now ;)

[DanceswithDingoes]

This will only work if you have perfected the 'holding' process where you transfer tension from your arms to your scaps (this reduces fatigue and shaking) even so it is the EXTERNAL movement that is halted not the internal expansion and transfer of energy via muscles. Even so most AIS archers I have watched do move very slowly as they enter the holding phase. With someone untrained I would not advocate pausing the draw until they have understood the concept of holding. As for aim most archers I know aquire the gold on the pre-draw and can pretty much keep it there throughout the draw cycle. The rocky-steady aim comes after the hold is accomplished (and the movement of the stabiliser/sight has slowed significantly) Get yourself a copy of 'Total Archery' as most AA coaches should be following Mr Lee's methodology.

[hoyt for life 2]

the way I see it, the archer doesnt stop, but to the observer watching the arrow it does stop. because the archer is doing all that transfer stuff so the arrow stops but there is still movement going on.

[Jay.G]

don't stop just keep pulling (expanding) and shoot the damn arrow.

[Leighton]

Just keep pulling until the clicker clicks and then shoot the arrow.