plunger screw thread

[reversehaven]

hey, i just got my plunger.. However i would like to ask, what do you all do when you all want to determine how far in your plunger should be screwed? like all of them have an adjustable screw thread or something right? yeah. what determines how far in they should be screwed?

[Progen]

hey, i just got my plunger.. However i would like to ask, what do you all do when you all want to determine how far in your plunger should be screwed? like all of them have an adjustable screw thread or something right? yeah. what determines how far in they should be screwed?

I'm going to knock your head if you were right in front of me, reversehaven.


You screw the thing in as far as you need to get centershot right LAH!!!!

Easier to understand with the LAH? :-D

Don't tell me you've been using a Hoyt / Easton Super Rest with the plastic piece on the side functioning as a plunger?

[James Park]

All explained in "Mastering Bow Tuning". Available from Urban Archery.

[Bulls On Parade]

hey, i just got my plunger.. However i would like to ask, what do you all do when you all want to determine how far in your plunger should be screwed? like all of them have an adjustable screw thread or something right? yeah. what determines how far in they should be screwed?
screw the button in so much as to get your centre-shot correct, as Progen said. your arrowtip should be JUST left of the string (as in 1/16 - 1/8").

as for button pressure, start of with a medium tension (with a medium spring, if you have a choice!) and determine it from there with bare shaft tuning, by either inceasing or decreasing the pressure of the spring.

as for James Park's "mastering bow tuning" book, you don't need to bother spending the $40 or thereabouts just for tuning your bow, especially with a recurve anyway (albeit very helpful for compound, i am led to believe). there are plenty of other manuals (eg., the easton arrow tuning guide or bow manuals) that are sufficient in tuning your bow accurately.

[Marcus]

Bulls On Parade

Please read

http://www.archery-forum.com/showthread.php?t=4817

[James Park]

(eg., the easton arrow tuning guide or bow manuals) that are sufficient in tuning your bow accurately.
I think you can readily do better.

Note that we do not tune a recurve bow by adjusting the spring tension in the button (despite some guides saying that - they are incorrect). Set the spring tension to a moderate pressure and use the bow's draw weight to do the tuning.
Changing the spring tension changes the "dynamic centre shot" (for want of something to call it). It is quite easy for archers to end up with the arrow shooting inside centre if they try this, and then it will work quite poorly.
Much better (and easier) to do it properly.

[Leighton]

Its a fair question and a question a lot of beginners have.

easton tuning guide takes you through the steps. Don't have James' book, but I'm sure it covers more than Easton's does.

[Bulls On Parade]

I think you can readily do better.

Note that we do not tune a recurve bow by adjusting the spring tension in the button (despite some guides saying that - they are incorrect). Set the spring tension to a moderate pressure and use the bow's draw weight to do the tuning.
Changing the spring tension changes the "dynamic centre shot" (for want of something to call it). It is quite easy for archers to end up with the arrow shooting inside centre if they try this, and then it will work quite poorly.
Much better (and easier) to do it properly.
obviously there are many other factors to consider in tuning a recurve, and not just the button pressure. i was only talking in reference to arrows and the initial set-up for a starting point in working towards tuning the bow properly, as you can't properly tune a recurve without all the components being addressed.

i assumed that he had already addressed the other factors such as limb alignment, etc.

[Brocky]

Bulls On Parade:
Never assume anything, I would have assumed that he would have been able to set up and tune the bow if he had purchased Jims book and not refered to the others as mentioned.
I believe that Jims book is a worth while buy for any recurver from setting up through to final tuning and is very easy to read.

[reversehaven]

whoa. hot stuff all in a day. @_@ i'm not sure about bulls on parade being someone with another userid trying to take a shot at me but either way i'm not a person easily offended.

progen-hey i just bought my plunger LAH.. :P like.... i only just got my barebow a month ago and i just bought my stabilisers and plunger. so naturally i've been using my hoyt plastic rest as a plunger. haaaa.

hm. i'll consider getting the bow. i know how to tune a plunger.. the spring stiffness and all that. like i've seen people do it before with bareshafts, walkback and whatnot.

hm. but could someone just explain a bit more just about how i should know whether the plunger is screwed in too much/too little? i'd be more than willing to buy the book 'mastering bow tuning', because i'm also interested in the finer arts of tuning bows (like apparently not many people in singapore are truly interested in that. I have my school club's quartermaster and vice president thinking that they can be their own plunger. so they don't tune their plungers.. they just pop it on. @_@). However, i'm really short of cash. bled my pocket dry just by buying the HMC long stabiliser and the plunger.

[James Park]

If the spring in the pressure button is done up very hard (totally rigid), you want the arrow positioned exactly on true centreshot. That is: the arrow coming out of the bow exactly on centreshot.
If you then have the spring having some give in the button you need to have the pressure button out further so that when you shoot the shot the arrow moves into the true centreshot position as you shoot.
If you get either the pressure button depth or spring tension wrong, the arrow will not exit the bow on true centreshot.
You then use the bow's draw weight adjustment to get the fletched and unfletched arrows grouping together.
Prior to doing all that, you need to adjust the limb alignment, brace height and tiller.
How to do all this, and more, is what is covered in my book. There are also a number of threads on this forum that cover it, so you could search for them.

[Leighton]

If you can't understand it by reading the tuning guides and what is in this thread, and hopefully you've already done searches for past threads. I can't explain it better to you. I suggest you purchase James' book. Now I personally haven't bought it as I don't worry too much about tune and I have my own way of doing things, but James' articles are very clear and easily understood. If I were in your position, I would spend a measley day's salary on the book.

[Progen]

He's a student, Leighton, so that book will cost him a few months' allowance in his country's currency. :-D (Ok, that's a joke but let it slide. I grew up in his country so I know a bit about them)

I ain't toadying up to Jim but he's given you some good advice for free, reversehaven. Read it VERY carefully though. Print it out if you have to while you're shooting for groups during tuning at the range. Quite common for folks to forget something and tune the other way round.

[Brocky]

Leighton from what we are told you should be concerned with tuning and need to buy the book. ;)

[Progen]

Leighton from what we are told you should be concerned with tuning and need to buy the book. ;)

Now where did THAT come from? Leighton's given decent advice throughout. :silly:

[Leighton]

Well, now that Jim has let the cat out of the bag. That is the method I use. Works good.

[Brocky]

Well from what we are told your method must be missing a set you should buy the book and read it.:lalala:

[Progen]

Well from what we are told your method must be missing a set you should buy the book and read it.:lalala:

He missed out a set so that YOU'll have to buy HIS book one day. :-D

[reversehaven]

lol cool. I just happened to read the easton arrow tuning guide. but what james just said.... offers a new insight into it.

ARGH.. can't wait for my uh... few measly months' uh.. combined allowance comes in :( i'm broke as hell now....I want the bookkkkk........

But just wanna clarify. what exactly is centershot? like could someone define it?

:P i'm trying to be a cheapo here. just kidding. hahaa.

oh i've tried aligning my plunger to the string alignment or something. had a pro coach do it for me. He aligned the thing by using the beiter center gauge. but i'm more of interested to know of alternate methods of doing it now.

[gt]

Jim Park said (quite accurately): It is quite easy for archers to end up with the arrow shooting inside centre if they try this, and then it will work quite poorly.

True enough, but I won't easily forget the time when Justin Huish came up to me 1/2 way through a rather windy competition in California (where he had a sizable point lead on the rest of the field) and asked me to look at his center shot.

I noticed he had it set one full arrow diameter inside. He asked me if it needed adjustment.

Considering the situation I told him to finish out the competition and that it would be fine. He finished with something on the order of a 1344 and won by about 60 points. I'm certainly no coach, but I think I know when to leave well enough alone. (Naturally we correctly tuned the bow after the event).

The point is that even a bad tune will work well if the archer is consistent enough. And, all the tuning perfection in the world won't make up for an inconsistent shot.


Leighton's given decent advice throughout Must.... supress... urge to laugh...

[reversehaven]

I must say that in that little understanding I have, tuning such things are important. Like he had a 60 point lead. The tuning was stopping him from getting more than that. Should there have been a more consistent archer around, he'd have lost due to the tuning disadvantage.

Of course, had he tuned on the spot, chances are it'll affect his shooting. For better or worse. I don't think anyone is ready to take the 'for worse' risk.

Still, if tuning of plunger buttons weren't important, then why do'nt we just do away with it and just adjust our sights instead? the truth of the matter is that without tuning, our fishtailing and porpoising (as i read in the free easton guide i got) on the arrows would generate a greater random factor as to where the arrows would hit.

as what my mentor tells me, 70% of errors from shooting come from the archer, 30% come from equipment.
and it's possible to tune the 30% of equipmental error down to zero, while the 70% archer error can never be totally eliminated. Hence, with a better tuned bow, you have a higher chance of winning because you have eliminated the maximum possible amount of error in shooting that you could. (considering training helps to reduce archer error).

well, that's theory.. or if you might, philosophy. But i feel it sticks quite well because naturally if your bow is better tuned, your arrow flight would be more consistent. hence until otherwise proven I would believe the decent advice given here.

Well, continuing on.. could someone tell me a bit more about centershot? like.. what exactly is the centershot and how do i identify it and all that?

[Sandy Hancock]

Centre shot is exactly that. The plunger is set so the centre of the arrow lines up exactly with the centre of the string. This is the setting used when tuning bow weight to arrow spine with a stiff plunger. Once the bare shafts group with the fletched arrows the sight is adjusted to bring them into the centre.

True centre shot is not recommended for normal shooting (with a spring in the plunger). The right side of the shaft of the arrow tip should line up with the left edge of the string (right handed archer). In Jim's tuning technique, the spring tension is then used to bring the arrows into the same spot as they went with the stiff plunger and true centre shot (without moving the sight).

[reversehaven]

Centre shot is exactly that. The plunger is set so the centre of the arrow lines up exactly with the centre of the string. This is the setting used when tuning bow weight to arrow spine with a stiff plunger. Once the bare shafts group with the fletched arrows the sight is adjusted to bring them into the centre.

True centre shot is not recommended for normal shooting (with a spring in the plunger). The right side of the shaft of the arrow tip should line up with the left edge of the string (right handed archer). In Jim's tuning technique, the spring tension is then used to bring the arrows into the same spot as they went with the stiff plunger and true centre shot (without moving the sight).

cool. hey thanks! i think i know how to go about tuning it already :) thanks guys!

oh btw, where can i get the book? i don't have a credit card so it's going to be kind of troublesome if i were to have to order it online. the book james park wrote?