cutting X10

[jmarlowe]

There is a limit on the length of trim than can be done on x10 shafts as recommended by easton. Can the trim be made in equal length from the end and back of the shaft? Anybody out there who have tried this?

[Leighton]

Actually there is, but I heard someone, and I won't mention names, but you should listen to this person, say that you can cut an inch or two more. Same person said you can cut from the back as well and it will be OK.

As to the limit, I don't know where to get that information, but I remember that it was so much that you might as well get two sizes stiffer than cut that much off the shaft. But, to each his own.

[Brocky]

That would have to be Pogen he seems to follow you everywhere ;)

[Progen]

It's you I'm following, mate. 0X I haven't said nothing about X10s. Can't because I've yet to own one. Best's A/C/Es.

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, my memory ain't perfect. Was it Marcus who was the one who said it's possible to cut from both ends? I remember a thread about him experimenting with Erika's X10s.

[Marcus]

There is a limit on the length of trim than can be done on x10 shafts as recommended by easton. Can the trim be made in equal length from the end and back of the shaft? Anybody out there who have tried this?
yeah you can, however it will change the spine of the arrows.
My wife shoots X10 500's with 3" taken from both ends. She won the Nationals with this setup.

[Leighton]

There are a lot of people who say you can cut from the back. Limbwalker, Marcus, me, but never mind. Simply put, you can cut an inch off the back with no problem.

[gt]

Leighton,

Answering that question with no information about how the person plans to use the arrow is reckless. If JMarlowe were a recurve shooter, you may have cost him $500.00 worth of shafts. You can't rely on his question or other posts to know how he plans to use these arrows, what if he is setting them up for a recurve shooter?

In my personal opinion, you are not doing anyone any favors dispensing that kind of "advice".

JMarlowe,

There is 1/2" "safety margin" in the maximum cut length on an X10, in other words, you can safely exceed the max cut chart by 1/2 inch. Do not cut from the rear of the shaft without specifically knowing what you are doing and why.

[arngeir]

i cut mine 450 1.5 in the back and 4 in front.
and they work perfekt.

and in easton manual it says you can cut a 450 arrow 5.5 "

[Flehrad]

Arngeir
As some may note, gt's comment about cutting them is more related that cutting from the back may not be useful for recurves. It has been discussed by others about cutting from the back, but pretty much all of them have been for compounders, and your signature indicates you also shoot a compound.... So, for recurve, I think gt is right, you shouldn't really mess around unless you know what you are doing or you have that kind of money to blow.

[reversehaven]

GT you seem to have something against leighton.. Like after all, leighton is giving advice based on his experience and all. I'd think that unless you have solid matter to show that what leighton just said is flawed, i'd suggest you keep your excessive flaming to yourself.

Of course, you could point out that the cutting on the back is fine unless yo'ure doing that for a recurve... just in case leighton forgot to consider the possibility that this guy might be setting it up for a recurve archer. Nobody's perfect, yanno.

cheers.

[wmt3rd]

Be careful...GT helped design the X10. I'd take his advice above all others.

Mack

[gt]

Like after all, leighton is giving advice based on his experience and all. I'd think that unless you have solid matter to show that what leighton just said is flawed, i'd suggest you keep your excessive flaming to yourself.



Yes, you might say I do have solid information about this subject.

It is irresponsible to give people advice about how to cut an X10 shaft without knowing anything about how that shaft will be used and in what kind of setup.

As for it being a personal issue with Leighton, I don't know Leighton, I only know that he is a prolific dispenser of often erroneous or flawed information. This might improve if he were to think a little more before typing.

[Jay.G]

GT you seem to have something against leighton.. Like after all, leighton is giving advice based on his experience and all. I'd think that unless you have solid matter to show that what leighton just said is flawed,


I'd becareful what you say about that, the man designed those arrows so i'd say he probably knows more about Hoyt recurves and Easton arrows more than anyone on this forum.

personal experience is good and all but when you don't know what you are dealing with, it can be disastrous.

[Leighton]

i never said i've done it or that i would do it. personally i would just buy new shafts. however, that doesn't change the fact that at least two good shooters have cut their shafts from the rear and still shot good scores.

[gt]

So, what can you tell us about their setups? Tuning methods? Launcher selection? Specific shaft size?

All those factors as well as at least six more are vital to understanding whether cutting from the rear is appropriate and if so, how much. But you didn't say that in your post, what you said was:

"I heard someone, and I won't mention names, but you should listen to this person, say that you can cut an inch or two more. Same person said you can cut from the back as well and it will be OK.

Did they? Are we to rely on your memory for this?

Honestly, what was the point of answering a question you don't seem to have first hand experience with? Simple question.

[Marcus]

i'd suggest you keep your excessive flaming to yourself.
No way, this forum has always enjoyed a good GT flaming. :lol:

say that you can cut an inch or two more
I have measured the diamtre of a number of X10's and I could not cut more than about 1/2" extra of the maximum trim amounts without increasing the size of the shaft and causing the nocks/points to no longer fit flush.

For recurve I would not cut from the back unless you need stiffer than a 380. The rest of the sizes should allow you to tune you bow to the arrows without cutting from the back. And if you need stiffer than a 380 then only do so if you are a really knowledgable shooter.
Example
My wife shoot 500's with 3" off each end from her compound.
She shoot 600's with nothing off the back with her recurve.

[Progen]

Just wondering, Marcus. With 3 inches off each end from Erika's compound arrows, wouldn't using Navigators be the same or are the X10s superior to the Navigators in more ways than just the barrelling?

[jmarlowe]

I'm just wondering when we are talking about the trim amount... does this refer to trimming the shaft without the nock and pin installed or the the trim refers to the correct way of cutting arrows for correct setup to draw length i.e. with nock and pin installed...

[Archangel]

You'd have to be shooting a really high poundage at a short draw for it to be a problem, wouldn't you?

[Marcus]

Progen: Yes the X10 is still superior and is still barellel. It is thinner than a Nav so beter in the wind.
jm: Without the nock and pin.
archangel: yeah. Erika could technically use 700-600 spines from her compound, but we want more mass in the arrow. She found the extra weight at the gusty conditions at the Nationals a huge advantage.

[reversehaven]

I'd becareful what you say about that, the man designed those arrows so i'd say he probably knows more about Hoyt recurves and Easton arrows more than anyone on this forum.

personal experience is good and all but when you don't know what you are dealing with, it can be disastrous.

whoa.. okay i take that back now that i know it. but GT, a lil' tact goes a long way. good advice is rarely taken unless dispensed tactfully. Not everyone is perfect so some people are bound to have 'erroneous views' on tuning their stuff.

:) cheers.

[2Dogs]

but GT, a lil' tact goes a long way

GT & Tact............


:rofl: :rofl:

Well he wouldn't be GT anymore...... and just another lemming :D

[Progen]

GT & Tact............


:rofl: :rofl:

Well he wouldn't be GT anymore...... and just another lemming :D

Wonder whether he had ever had Great Tact as a nickname. :rolleyes:

:grin:

[Archangel]

Tact is for the weak :-D

[gt]

Not everyone is perfect so some people are bound to have 'erroneous views' on tuning their stuff.


I'm not taking issue with people who simply have erroneous views on tuning THEIR stuff. Read my posts.

I do take serious issue with (1) people who repeatedly and erroneously post on things they do not have direct experience with and lead people to make bad decisions. Fortunately these are counted in the single digits and tend to be well known to anyone who has been around a while.

I take significant issue with those who (2) have a general track record of giving inaccurate/wrong/fourth-hand bad advice more than, say, 30% of the time, to others. These are very common, especially on US archery forums.

I take minor issue with (3) thoughtless people who erroneously answer questions they know nothing about. Those will always be around any filterless forum so it isn't worth getting too worked up about.

But, type (1) posters are a threat to the usefulness of a forum.

Do you really think this sort of poster is doing you any favors?

[StevenB]

don't worry GT, most people round here think Leighton is a twat

[Flehrad]

Unfortunately the -ve feedback system isn't utilized (except for the trader function) because of potential abuse, otherwise, it would serve a good indicator for the opinions of someone's helpfulness....

[Marcus]

isn't it. ;)

[chrstphr]

actually Leighton asked if X 10s could be cut on another forum not too long ago. I was one of the responders who said it was done and listed the risks associated with it. I shoot 52 Lbs, 29.75 draw and cut 2.5 inches off the back of my 450s to spine them up and lower the weight and increase my fps. my results may not be anyone elses results. My 450s spine like 380s without the extra weight and i get 218 fps.

GT and easton have legitimate reasons for not cutting off the back. Do world class archers cut off the back, yes (though i am not a world class archer). Is it recommended? no. Jay Barrs cut from the back of his X tens, Tim Cudihy cut 2 inches off the back of his 380s for athens according to Hisik Lee.

to each his own. it is not without its risks. as GT says, you need to know what you are doing. I get great tuning results with my setup and arrows. anyone else may not.

I feel Leighton has gotten a bum rap here with this subject as i dont think he has been spouting the benefits of cutting off the back as Marcus, Corey or myself have online on another message board . I happen to have met leighton personally and found him to be an intelligent friendly archer who makes one hell of a string.


far be it from me to argue against someone who invented the X 10. its one hell of an arrow. GT is only looking out for the archers using his product, so they get predictable results. I have much respect for GT and his accomplishments.

i personally feel cutting the back of an X 10 is a viable option, but not for everyone.