Recurve Button Tuning

[archerger]

I shoot LEFT HAND. I've had some trouble in that the further I move back the more I need to adjust my windage - the arrow aims LEFT- in toward my bow. I believe this is due to my button not being far enough out and lthe arrow leaving the bow at a slight angle left which of course would mean greater adjustment as I move back.
Would you agree (save me some time)
Gerry

[Dave Barnes]

Hello archerger,

How you going? you still playing with this recurve business. I thought you would have found it to hard now and gone back to that compound stuff.

the arrow aims LEFT- in toward my bow

Do you mean your centre shot when you are looking at it. If so move it so that it is about the width of your arrow on the outside.

I was having this problem a while ago and i just fixed it by changing the angle of my sight bar with my sight extension.

Another thing could be canting your bow???

[archerger]

Well Weeellll WEeeeellll Dave Barnes how low I've sunk. I've done the same thingas you i.e. angled my vertical sight bar to allow for lefts but just doesnt seem right no one else has this problem Max et al just lines the sight up with the string and off they go. Are you saying you just have the point outside the string and thats it uh?no need to adjust in and out further just spring tension??
Regards
Gerry

[Joe]

If you have to adjust windage with distance either the button needs tuning or your head position is wrong.

(With no wind) set the windage to zero (sight in the plane of the bow). At full draw 'see' the string running down the centre of the sight pin. (this puts your head in the right position) If the arrows go left (or right) then it's the tuning.

tuning: set the centreshot at 1 diameter offset aluminium or 1/2 diameter offset with carbon. Shoot with zero windage as above and adjust the spring tension until the arrow groups hit central. Do this at 60 yds say and check that they still hit central at 80/100 yds.

[crosshairs]

I've double checked this with the Korean coach Kim Hyung Tak.

According to him:

1) The limbs must be of good quality and condition. The pair of limbs must be parallel laterally at their similar points along their lengths. Check this by shoving an arrow each into the recure part, under the string and see if the arrows are parallel.

2) With 2 arrows, press them on both sides of the limb pocket, and check that the limb aligns itself at the center of the 2 arrows. This means that the limb is inserted straight with respect to the riser. Do this for both limbs.

3) Use a pair of limb gauges and see if the string runs thru the center. It should. If it doesn't, adjust the limb pocket (assuming it is adjustable) that has the string futher away from the center of the riser when the string is aligned with the respective gauge (upper or lower). Try to place the limb gauges as far away from the riser, and make sure they are of equal distances away from their limb pockets.

4) NOW we are ready to adjust your plunger button. Take a seat. Put your chin on the head rest of your chair. Now look at your bow. With the string aligned to the center of your limb gauge, assuming you ARE a LEFT handed archer, the point of your parallel shaft (if your arrow is ACE or X-10, I cannot guarantee it works) arrow should be on the RIGHT hand side of your string, and the SIDE of your STRING should lie "1/4 of the RADIUS of your POINT" inside of the "circumference of the point". So it is somewhat touching your point, but just a little further in.

OK, that's what I was told. I asked him if there was any other way of verifying if the plunger button is in the correct place, he said that it was enough to assume that THAT is the correct position.

[crosshairs]

By the way, Mr Kim advocates aligning the string blurr with the window. (Cover the window with the string blurr when you anchor). He also advocates center anchor, as far as possible.

[recurve boy]

Why is that method so complicated?

Snap a match stick in half stick it into your plunger instead of the spring. Make sure arrow is it's diameter outside the string. Adjust the collar. Centre shot set. Stick the spring back in and adjust the pressure so that a bare shaft groups with fletched shafts at 15m or so. That's it. if they are still going left or right but the bare shaft groups move your sight pin.

It's enough to eyeball these things.

[crosshairs]

Why is that method so complicated?

Snap a match stick in half stick it into your plunger instead of the spring. Make sure arrow is it's diameter outside the string. Adjust the collar. Centre shot set. Stick the spring back in and adjust the pressure so that a bare shaft groups with fletched shafts at 15m or so. That's it. if they are still going left or right but the bare shaft groups move your sight pin.

It's enough to eyeball these things.

Hmm........what do you guys think? The 3 steps before the final step of adjusting the plunger was there to eliminate any errors that might cause an inaccurate adjustment to the plunger button.

[recurve boy]

Well I understand what you're trying to do but I've never done that extensive tuning on any bow and I still get good results.

Frankly I don't think it's even needed for most archers. My setup used to be so out of tune it wasn't funny and yet my arrows still flew striaght and I could still group. The only thing I think you should spend time doing is getting center shot right. I hear it gets the arrow flexing in the correct plane. If it's not right it becomes unpredictable. Can anyone confirm?

Everything else, guestimate! So long as it's not ridiculously out then it should be OK for most people.

[Joe]

If the riser or limbs are twisted/misaligned then the arrow doesn't come out travelling straight but at an angle to the plane of the bow. My guess this would make the bow less forgiving but should still be able to tune OK.

There is no absolute 'best' centreshot position. If you reduce the arrow offset from the plane of the bow with the button position it just means that the spring has to do more i.e. you need a higher spring tension. Generally 1/2 to 1/3 shaft diameter offset seems to generally be about right though some archers use a zero or even a negative offset - comes down to what suits you though unless your very good you won't notice any difference.

Putting matchsticks in pressure buttons is a complete waste of time.

[crosshairs]

Frankly speaking, I'm a supporter of hard spring tensions, but I do not really see the logic of using matchsticks.

What do you guys know about "nodal ponits" on a shaft? You know, points that remain stationary when the whole arrow is vibrating. Was told that the ultimate aim os to get these 2 points to form a straight line parallel to the direction of flight, and the spring in the plunger button is used to aid that. So your spring has to be there, and so I do not support the use of a matchstick.

[Aarleks]

I think if you read the argument for using matchsticks (one can also use a very stiff spring) when tuning you will realise why it is done. It is specifically used to find the centre-shot. After this you simply put your spring back in at medium tension, and wind the button out until you find again that centreshot. Easy and logical. This way the arrow will fly straight out of the bow, and all the way to the target :D . This method finds the centreshot of the bow in shot, as opposed to finding it at rest and tuning from there.

That's my opinion anyway. :wink:

[Aarleks]

In addition to my last post I might say that, for me, when I say "centreshot", I mean nodes aligned towards the point of aim, which is itself directly in-line with the line of force from the powerstroke of the bow, at the moment the arrow leaves the string.

This is an active rather than passive situation. Therefore, in my opinion, this can only be determined by shooting, and with a stiff plunger set to exact centreshot, ie arrow aligned with the string and not offset. The plunger with spring is adjusted out to find this point using sight settings gained with the siff plunger.

[Joe]

Crosshairs

'Nodes' are really irrelevant. They don't exist when the arrow is on the bow and in flight all they do is define the orientation of the arrow in space.

Having the nodes aligned when the arrow leaves the bow is not of any great importance either as the arrow still flies 'straight'. Any misalignment just generates fishtailing, the 'straight' line has a lazy 'S' shape.

[crosshairs]

Crosshairs

'Nodes' are really irrelevant. They don't exist when the arrow is on the bow and in flight all they do is define the orientation of the arrow in space.

Having the nodes aligned when the arrow leaves the bow is not of any great importance either as the arrow still flies 'straight'. Any misalignment just generates fishtailing, the 'straight' line has a lazy 'S' shape.

You are right, I agree.

But what about the short period during release? That is the part I am concerned about. That is the part I was told that nodes had alot to do with, and that the arrow length and it's weight distribution had to do with their location too. At the end of the day, error forgiving is most important, not how beautiful the arrow flies.

[James Park]

The arrow's nodes are especially important, and are a fundamental part of how the arrow flexes in getting around the bow following release - the Archers' Paradox.