2007 National Indoor: Post suggestions here

[Marcus]

I'll put this up as a sticky. Post any suggestions you have for the National indoor for 2007 here

[PeterBennett]

Allow us to enter all archers, but those that do not enter Nationals have their names in red, will show them where they may have come, and might encourage them to have a go next time. Also means only 1 database for all entries.

[lewkowski]

I understood that different states had varying amounts of practice ends before the event. WA got 2 x 3 arrow ends practice and on a day with a Min temp of 4 degrees I could have used a few more warm up ends :-).

Next Indoor nationals I feel that the amount of practice ends available should be fixed and the same for everyone, at least 18 arrows would be nice.

[dbjac]

Vic had 2 x 3 practice ends also.

[machinegunjones]

In NSW, I guess the lighting could have been better but I understand that this is a common problem with indoor tournaments.

I don't know how this impacts on anything but is there an advantage/disadvantage to shooting the two rounds on seperate days?

In NSW, it was a 7 hour day with both rounds being shot consecutively. I inderstand that this was split in other states over 2 days?

[Marcus]

Only in some states, it was about 50/50 that split and didn't split.
We felt we could not dictate this to the states because we did not want to force a format that may have a negative effect on participation levels.
For example if we said "must be shot over 2 days" and NSW saw a 25% drop in numbers then that may have been our fault. And visa versa for the states shooting over 2 days.
With that said, perhaps the state organisers should have a good think about it

[New Tricks]

My very quick thoughts.

- All states shoot on the same day(s) at the same time (of course time zones throw this out a touch).
- Optional entry into the National event is the State event is run at the same time
- All 3 spot vertical or all 3 spot triangle. Same faces for all.
- Minimum Lux values at both target and line
- Max and Minimum target face (butt) angles

[James Park]

My very quick thoughts.

- Minimum Lux values at both target and line
- Max and Minimum target face (butt) angles
I really think we need to leave some of these things to the States. Basically, if you want your venue to be better the option is already there to do it, without any need to mandate things.

The lighting in Victoriua was good, but we had no shadows from the arrows, which I found to be a disadvantage (we older guys have trouble seeing the arrows, and I did not know where they had gone until I got to the target each end).

[Marcus]

Optional entry into the National event is the State event is run at the same time
- All 3 spot vertical or all 3 spot triangle. Same faces for all.
Optional entry was a nightmare in Victoria and caused double entry. The organisers down here hated it greatly.
It also caused alot of confusion for many competitors some of who were not sure if they were in the Nationals or not.
Nice idea, but the states who did not make it optional were the smart ones IMHO.

Regarding faces, there is no benifit for triangle or vertical. The state should use the face that is most cost effective to them and also suits their target setups. For example Adelaide uses 2 targets per butt and Victoria 4 targets. If we said vertical across the board Vic would have needed 5 flights.

As for the other suggestions, FITA specify these things and we should run to FITA rules. If one state thinks is has the better setup than another then that may be an advantage. It is worth noting that desipte the light being of lower quality in NSW they won the compound teams event and picked up many open medals.
Storm in a teacup IMHO.

[blayde]

I think that expecting the states to be able to enforce variables like lux ratings is going to be virtually impossible.

I shot in Perth... there were approx 100 archers lined up... the venue was better than last year...

BUT... the overhead mercury vapour lamps at some points in the line were blown! If anyone had bothered to take lux readings... we would have had a variation depending where you stood on the line.

Lighting conditions are going to be dependent on what the various state associations can get access to! Each state will be trying to get the best venue they can... and we are going to have to accept that some will be slightly better than others...

... mind you at my level it ain't gunna make a hell of a lot of difference to my scores... :-((

[2Dogs]

The QLD shoot was spot on.

Ran perfectly....good lighting.

[dumb mum]

I believe that all states for a National Championship should be done with the same format. I know in NSW people were allowed to shoot in same age groups but different bow types because Recurve was held on Sat and compound Sun. Other states however were allowed to shoot same bow type but different age groups e.g. Opens & Masters or Masters and Veterans. Also I noticed that Peter Bennett mentioned about highlighting in red those who did not enter the National Championships to show where they would have come if they had entered. In NSW we were not given any choice the State and National was the same event, could not enter one without the other.

I think we should all remember this is A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP not just another tournament.

Another idea because I believe also that you should be shooting in person with your opponent that maybe states could just send their winners and runners up to say the AIS which is neutral and shoot there for the National Championship indoor. That way everybody would be in the same boat about weather, lighting and other conditions. It would also encourage people in their State Championships. Make it a prestigious event.

[Marcus]

In this thread please also mention your state and whether you actually shot as well.
Many people who did not actually shoot are making assumptions about the lack of pressure, which is not accurate.

[Hannah]

I agree that that National participation should not have been voluntary.

I was personally disappointed with the number of people I spoke to who said that they didn't enter the National competition because they knew they werent going to win a place. This is the wrong way to look at it, on top of being extremely uncompetitive and closed minded, it is not supporting the organisation and association that you shoot for. In Vic the difference of pricing was $5 only. The people I spoke to didn't win a state medal either so this reasoning isn't even plausible!

However, as much as I understand that this is a state as well as a national event - and as such states should have a certain level of autonomy over how the competition is run, perhaps some aspects of the shoot should be a little more uniform ie target faces (not that this really effects me) and the time frame given to shooting (ie one or two days). I do not think that uniformity should get so finnicky as to include lighting measurements etc as this would go against the spirit of the suggestion that Jim, Marcus & Clare made in making the states the nationals too. Mind you, it wouldn't matter how it was run there would always be someone unhappy ;)

Edit - I did shoot in both (and from Vic) and the awareness I had that it was a National event was very real. My other question would be if you did take up the runners up & winners being sent to the AIS who would pay for flights, accomodation etc...it is very convenient for those in NSW...but maybe not so for those in WA. Reality bites.

[Marcus]

VEnu temperature is a problem, but again, up to the state bodies. Last few years were icy cold in Morwell and I was really worried this year. I wore 5 layers including 2 thermals. On day 2 I had to strip back to a tshirt because it was wam in the venue down our end. TCAG listned to feedback from previous shoots and got in gas heaters for the event. So while it was around 5

[Marcus]

So last year we had around 120 entries
This year 650
You want to drop it back to around 20.



Another idea because I believe also that you should be shooting in person with your opponent that maybe states could just send their winners and runners up to say the AIS which is neutral and shoot there for the National Championship indoor. That way everybody would be in the same boat about weather, lighting and other conditions. It would also encourage people in their State Championships. Make it a prestigious event.

[New Tricks]

From the responses by people with a horse in the race, it is obvious this thread is not about suggestions for next time but defence of how things were done this time. Waste of a potentially good thread.

[Marcus]

No New Tricks, there is little point in having a thread ful of suggestions for things that are either not possible or outside the handling of the National body.
Also people are fixated on things like trying to 'make it fair' when suggestions on the processes, communication, entries, results, etc etc would be far more helpful.

[blayde]

Fair comment!!

IMHO for next year... pretty much the same as this year from an organisation point of view!

Obviously if any of the state associations can arrange better venues they will (that's a given...)

Only comment is that all states should shoot on same day (or days)... rather than have some people shoot on the Sat and some on the Sun! I don't have preference for either but it should be the same across the board.

[Oldtimer]

Personally, I liked the two day format that SQAS had. It enabled us to do away with A/B line-ups as there was space for everyone to shoot at the same time. I don't think it would make any difference to the scores if some shot over 2 days and others over 1 day. You still have to shoot your arrows, even if you do know what your opponents have shot - or half shot.

I'm not in favour of forcing archers to use a face that they don't want - it's better for each archer to be able to select the face (from those on offer) that he/she wants. The 2 day format is also conducive to this.

I think a hearty vote of thanks should go to Marcus. The data entry and score collation went extremely well, with no problems that I know of. I realise this would have taken a fair amount of work to set up, so thanks very much, Marcus. Excellent job.

[Flex]

I would like to see the scores sorted by highest to lowest for a start :)

Also split into class as it is now you can see how you did nationally but
not how you did in your class. Can't see the point in classes if they are basiclly ignored in results.

Yet a person shooting a division being the sole shooter gets a gold and the 3rd class archer shooting against 6 ppl in his class gets nothing.(can't even see how he went against his peers)

[PeterBennett]

In regards to who did and did not pay the $5.00 fee for the Nationals out of 164 competitors only 9 did not shoot the nats so I think next year there will not be a choice in Vic. it did make it harder with scoring and data entry so we will be making it mandatory.
I loved SA's idea of displaying scores in real time and if they don't mind we may pinch that one for next years shoot. Though we won't be going with the shoot over the chairs and tables idea.
All in all the event went well from the organising committee's view, and personally I would like to thank Marcus, Jim and Clare for all their hard work as well as the members of my own Club TCAG who have worked extremely hard this year running this event as well as the Nationals and the Vic State Target.
Next year we will have more room with the back wall back 5 meters for spectators and archers, and a few more wood heaters.
We still will have to run 3 flights of A's and B's though to fit everyone in, especially as i think the numbers of competitors will go up.

Peter

[Marcus]

I would like to see the scores sorted by highest to lowest for a start :)
ummm they are.



Also split into class as it is now you can see how you did nationally but
not how you did in your class. Can't see the point in classes if they are basiclly ignored in results.

Yet a person shooting a division being the sole shooter gets a gold and the 3rd class archer shooting against 6 ppl in his class gets nothing.(can't even see how he went against his peers)
Classes are not recognised by AA for tournament usage. For some reason only Victoria do this, and at state level they are only awarded certificates as the State Titles are Open and not class events.

[PeterBennett]

In regards to classes, in Victoria we give out certificates for class placings after the event so if you do well in your class you get recognition, but we do not have time to make them all up and present them on the day as the presentations would then take 2 hours, and most people would leave before then. If marcus is able to put something in his program that can sort out classes after the event that would be handy for us, but I can tell you from experience that doing it during the event is confusing as you have to go back and forward between classes to find some of the overall winners and it leaves the presenters looking like goofs when they get it wrong because all the results are divided up into classes and peoples scores end up all over the place.

Peter

[Flex]

Hadn't looked at the Final scores.

As Vic does recognise classes and most adult archers are not GMB ranked I'am fairly sure the marjority of ppl wouldn't mind the presentations taking longer.You would probably find more ppl stay because they would have a chance to pick up something..Just a thought.

[Marcus]

Disappointing that people will only stay if they can get a prize.
Maybe chocolate medals for those who only value such things. :rolleyes:

BTW one tournament last year in Vic had 41 entries and 39 trophies handed out. It was a joke.

[Flex]

For alot of archers this would have been their first tornament I find to ask for a class then ignore them completely to be rude.Fair enough some will get a certificate in the mail. Just to read out the class winners at the presentations would be some recognition for them as they are the majority of archers.

[Marcus]

The correct solution of course is for AV to stop with all the classes rubbish anyway. It's a great way to move up through the ranks through your club, but all tournaments should be open only, otherwise it's not a competition.
If you don't like losing, then train hard and earn your medals like everyone else.

And I am not being elitest as I have only placed a few times in the last few years.

[New Tricks]

Classes and ages (not including u17 and down) are a joke. 18 +, Male, Female 1st to 3rd. Didn't win anything? Practice harder. There are score awards like 1100+ and 6 gold at distances to keep those working their way up interested in mini goals. No offence to anyone intended but 3rd place mens 3rd class compound is not really a trophy that really screams 'winner'.

[James Park]

It is important to remember that this was registered as a FITA tournament. Hence, FITA awards are also available, and my guess is that a large proportion of the archers would now be elegible to claim one.
Perhaps we need Clare to remind us what they are and what we need to do to claim one?

[Kerrie W]

It is important to remember that this was registered as a FITA tournament. Hence, FITA awards are also available, and my guess is that a large proportion of the archers would now be elegible to claim one.
Perhaps we need Clare to remind us what they are and what we need to do to claim one?

Or for us Newbies, just let us know what to do :confused: To make a claim if we are able to...;)

[dbjac]

yeh cool! i'll claim what ever i can...
... so what can i claim...?
... and how do i do it?

[Flame]

Information on Classification and Performance Awards (http://www.archery.org.au/lib/pdf/RC-014.pdf)

See the FITA Target Awards section

It is important to remember that this was registered as a FITA tournament. Hence, FITA awards are also available, and my guess is that a large proportion of the archers would now be elegible to claim one.
Perhaps we need Clare to remind us what they are and what we need to do to claim one?

[Clare Barnes]

Requirements for FITA Target Awards are detailed on http://www.archery.org.au/lib/pdf/RC-014.pdf but to summarise them:

500

[Flehrad]

In regards to it being a single/double day event, I think having it on the same day would even things a little.

For the NSW recurve/longbow shooters this year, we froze inside for the whole day, but then on the sunday, the weather was considerably warmer for the compounders. To the point that a lot of the recurve folk who came to watch or shoot in the compound event said it would have been nice to shoot on the 2nd day because it ment we could have had some higher scores.

If it was all the same day, then something like the weather reduces variance in performances. Being generalistic about it, Victorian weather is probably fairly stable in being cooler, and Queensland is probably fairly stable being more warmer, but for NSW, we have had some quite wide range of weather lately....

Further more, having a entire night to rest and come back to shoot is an advantage compared to 35minutes lunch break to rest, and to shoot in cold weather. Even with a jacket on, most people will cool down, and having no practice ends before the second set, means warming up immediately is very difficult to do.

[Bulls On Parade]

my suggestion is to not permit individuals to compete in 2 separate age groups in the same tournament, eg. both senior and masters compound divisions.

that pissed me off. i think it's highly unfair to others, even if you do not win at all.

different disciplines in the same tournament i can accept, however.

[Artemis]

Disappointing that people will only stay if they can get a prize.
Maybe chocolate medals for those who only value such things

I think if we want to encourage more participation as well as having competitors remain for the presentations we need to consider 4 things for next year:

1) sufficient flights (for the size of the venue and the expected partipation rate) with scheduled start times published with the entry form

2) enough room for all competitors and spectators to remain at the venue comfortably. I shot at Morwell and there was barely enough room for the competitors and spectators for one flight - let alone three.

3) an agreed and reliable method for communicating to all competitors if there is any change to the schedule. This is especially important when most competitors have to travel some distance (and stay overnight) in order to attend.

4) all flights run to the same schedule. At Morwell we had 2 flights shooting As and Bs and 1 flight shooting just As. It might actually work better in a small venue to have more flights shooting just As.

And forget the chocolate medals - it should be enough to take home the target face you shot on as an incentive for next year!

[Clare Barnes]

my suggestion is to not permit individuals to compete in 2 separate age groups in the same tournament, eg. both senior and masters compound divisions.

that pissed me off. i think it's highly unfair to others, even if you do not win at all.

different disciplines in the same tournament i can accept, however.

The difference being ... :-?

So no doubt it also upset you when Trudy shot Open and Master divisions with her barebow recurve in the Field event at the Nationals in April? :rolleyes:

[Artemis]

my suggestion is to not permit individuals to compete in 2 separate age groups in the same tournament, eg. both senior and masters compound divisions.

I think it's Open and Masters and assuming they are paying 2 entry fees and shooting separate rounds for each division how is that unfair?

[PeterBennett]

In reply to Artemis, we know the venue was tight this year, but it only got its roof just before xmas and this was its first big run. The back wall will be back 5 metres by next year, and this will help.
in regards to the diferent flight times, we did notify people at the event that this was the first time we had done anything like this and to please bear with us. we also notified competitors at the finish of their days shooting what time they were shooting the next day.
And the 3rd flight was only planned a week before as we did not got the full amount of entries till the last week. so we moved most of our own members and any that came in late to the last flight, which were run as all A's or all B's to ensure that all competitors could leave earlier after it all finished, and not have to wait around for hours before presentation.
Next year this too will change as we will have more entries.

Peter

[PeterBennett]

Flex, we used to present all class awards at this event as well and most of the class winners were the ones who suggested we didn't as they preffered to get an early run home, and would leave as soon as theirs were presented, if not before.

Peter

[Flex]

Realise that Peter. I was thinking mostly of the first timers really in the post.DVA had alot of first timers in as a few clubs would have .
Just thought they may have liked to have had their names read out or something.

I can understand the need to get the presentations done in a timely manner ;)

[Artemis]

In reply to Artemis, we know the venue was tight this year, but it only got its roof just before xmas and this was its first big run.

Peter, I am not attacking your efforts this year, just using the experience to point out things to keep in mind for next year and not just for one venue, but for all.

I could also have identified some things that don't need to change for next year:

Gas heaters
wood fires
no queues for the toilets
yummy egg and bacon sandwiches for breakfast
friendly and enthusiastic helpers
excellent lighting
plenty of parking

Not all bad!

[David Rowson]

First off I wish to also congratulate the State and National organising committees for this event.

It was exciting to see the buildup to the event with entries being posted on the web. Our club had 14 of its 18 members shooting and some for the first time. During the Saturday when the recurvers shot our compound members were gathered at the club hovering over the laptop egerly hitting the refresh button to get the scores, to some frustration. Maybe next year the IT gurus can arrange for more live scores.
I would also like to see maybe some more information in the leadup to the event like the flight times from different states, the target allocation, even maybe some archer profile (the people who had bets on them) etc.
This would help to get some idea when our friends are shooting and then we would be able to look out for their scores.
I think SA idea of projecting the scores onto a wall sounds great and hope all the feedback you receive will help make this event bigger and better.

David
NSW

[Flehrad]

I believe that at the NSW venue, they had dial-up on a laptop.... and it was pretty busy as is without time for anyone to collect live scores to submit, though they did quite well at half time to collect the scores and check them in the 35minute break we had.

I think for 2007, everyone must pass a simple maths exam as part of their registration as I was told by one of the event organisers that one target had a 60 point discrepancy on double scoring!

[James Park]

We had DSL at Twin City Archers.
What we would like (Peter) to do next year is to install a wireless router so that we can set up web cams and also beam the results onto a screen in the indoor range. With a wireless router we could have a number of PC's (or Macs, of course) spread around to let people use.
We did think of having web cams on specific targets.

[Clare Barnes]

SA just had dial-up on my laptop through a fax machine found in a room adjacent to the Mitsubishi factory canteen. There were contingency plans to come home after each session and enter data here if necessary - I had no idea if the connection would work until an hour before shooting commenced!

A major change for next year will be to have at least 2 computers online so that scores can be entered while results are being viewed. This time I made the decision to give preference to archers viewing results over data entry as I though the archers feeling included in the National event was more important, especially at the lunch break (SA shot both rounds on one day).

Also next year there is a need to ensure the results website address is more widely circulated amongst the non-AF archers. I wrote the address out many, many times for archers to go home and wait for WA scores...

(and wait and wait...)

[2Dogs]

For those sites that didn't have a broadband connection, it is possible to rent a laptop for the weekend with the bigpond minimax modem connection (works through CDMA).

That would give you your fast connection, without busting the budget or having the hassles of cable infrastructure

[Clare Barnes]

For 9 hours online at $1 an hour and one local phone call the speed was perfectly acceptable!

[2Dogs]

that's IF you can get a phone line into your venue ;)

[PeterBennett]

no problems Artemis,
I knew you weren't having a go, and all the feedback possible only makes the event better next time.
the best change on our part would be to have the entries in earlier and not get a heap of people entering in the 3 days prior to the event, or ringing up all hours to change shooting times.
Other than that any ideas that come up (that are sensible lol) will hopefully be implemented before next year

Thanks guys
Peter

[frommy]

Just a few observations as a non-competitor.

I thought the web service was excellent, and, sure improvements could be made. But this comes back to what the host club/RGB has available to them at the venue or otherwise. I like the suggestion of 2Dogs re temporary rental. I think the SA effort of projection of scores was a fabulous innovation.

The argument of differing conditions at venues was thrashed out over 6 months ago, and I WILL NOT in any way consider that this could be a condition imposed on an RGB by any edict from the National Authority, but it is certainly something that the members of any RGB should be pressing their body to look at so that their members get the best conditions available. It is not easy to get an indoor venue, unless you are at Morwell perhaps.

In NSW a host club runs the event, and this seems to be the case in many other RGB

[Zoe]

So should the starting plan be standardised so that everyone shoots the same day(s)? WTF does that matter. Yeah, recurvers in other states knew what scores were shot in NSW on Saturday by the time they lined up for their second round on Sunday, but, also consider that WA knew what had been shot in the Eastern States two hours earlier. No argument in my mind. This will always exist, and I would assume every serious competitor would shoot for their best result no matter what.


Interesting point Frommy. From what I saw, archers were turning up in WA with many knowing what had been shot on the Saturday. Some had sought it out, others had been told (willingly or unwillingly), and some were keen not to hear it :lalala: Every archer has a different way of trying to ensure they shoot their best and it was interesting to see the different approaches.
While it might be most equitable to have all competing on the same day at the same time, I agree it has to be weighed up with the ability of the RGB to put on the most enjoyable shoot for its members. Numbers may preclude some RGB

[Keith Gaisford]

Great response from all. The Nat Indoor was obviously a BIG HIT.
I am interested to know what Media coverage all states had.
When you look at the size of the event it was worthy of great publicity.
Being an Archery Australia event, the media push should come from the top office.
Portfolio for one Board Member should be PR.
We alo need to search for sponsorship of the event from a National TV channel.

Keith Gaisford

[bbird]

Speaking as an organiser of the South Qld event and as a competitor, I was really happy with how this year's event went off. The figures and stats say it all. I'll admit to some misgivings before the event but I'm happy with the way it's turned out. From the verbal reports that I had most of those who competed at the SQAS tournament were happy with the venue, shooting arrangements and lighting. Thanks to those who have commented here as well.

A great effort on the part of everyone. It's shown that such an event is not only theoretically possible but also practical.

My only suggestion for next year (at this stage):

Select the dates for the event as soon as possible!
(gives the organisers time to ensure that the same or similar venues can be found and booked well in advance.)

As to media coverage, here in SQAS, I was able to get local television footage, did a couple of radio interviews and got great press coverage both before and after the event. Nice big photo on the fornt cover of our sport section in the local paper on Monday with another article and photos as well.

Thanks everyone and I'm already looking forward to next year's event.

[Flame]

Channel 31 :D


We alo need to search for sponsorship of the event from a National TV channel.

Keith Gaisford

[AFJAMES]

Archery ACT was able to get the Canberra Times to come down to the venue. In the Sunday paper we had a 1/3 page article on the event, and how it was being tried through out the nation. We had a colour photo of the archers on the shoot line with the names under the photo. They also had an interview with Owen van Acker. So for us it was great.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Bulls On Parade
my suggestion is to not permit individuals to compete in 2 separate age groups in the same tournament, eg. both senior and masters compound divisions.

that pissed me off. i think it's highly unfair to others, even if you do not win at all.

different disciplines in the same tournament i can accept, however.


Looking forward to seeing who the first veteran will be to enter vets, masters, & open.
It certanly would not piss me off to be capable of it .
Hope I am still around to see you do it James P :)

[Marcus]

that pissed me off. i think it's highly unfair to others, even if you do not win at all.
Why? How did it affect you?

[PeterBennett]

regarding publicity, in Victoria we got local television coverage prior to during and after the event, during the news and during news breaks as well as late at night. I did about 4 radio interviewsprior to the event and 2 more afterwards, and we are getting the story into the local newspaper as well. We are lucky to have a great rapport with the local tv, radio and newspapers and get regular coverage of all our events, but this has taken a lot of work over a long time.

Peter

[PeterBennett]

as to people shooting more than once, Erica has done it for a couple of years now and has for the last 2 years won both the ladies recurve and compound sections. This is a fantastic effort and should be allowed to continue. While it does create a few small problems (like making sure I put the right scores with the right bow), I don't see how it gives anyone an advantage, in fact I believe it is more of a challenge to a competitors physical and mental abilities.
As to shooting in 2 different age divisions, when I reach 50 and beyond I just hope that I am still able to shoot the Open division competitively.

Peter

[katzgrin]

Why? How did it affect you?

In my state I didn't have the bloody option. Not that it would have made much difference.

[Marcus]

I seriously doubt most people realise just how difficult it is to shoot 144 consecutive arrows indoor. The archer in question did not get a break between rounds as the shoot went straight though.
It may sound like a FITA, but it's not. In a FITA you have more time between ends, a lunch break and you can afford to drop points.

If the complaint is 'I didn't get to do it why should someone else' well I'm very sorry, but to put in rules against it would be counter productive.

If the complaint is that this archer won 2 divisions and that's not fair on one of those divisions, then I have zero sympathy.

Personally I think it's a great thing and would like to see more of it.

[katzgrin]

I seriously doubt most people realise just how difficult it is to shoot 144 consecutive arrows indoor. The archer in question did not get a break between rounds as the shoot went straight though.
It may sound like a FITA, but it's not. In a FITA you have more time between ends, a lunch break and you can afford to drop points.

If the complaint is 'I didn't get to do it why should someone else' well I'm very sorry, but to put in rules against it would be counter productive.

If the complaint is that this archer won 2 divisions and that's not fair on one of those divisions, then I have zero sympathy.

Personally I think it's a great thing and would like to see more of it.

Actually it is 120 arrows plus whatever you were allowed for practice.

The compound folk in NSW and other states, who shot two rounds in one day, realise the difficulty. Because of time constraints there was no break between the first set of 30 arrows and the second set of 30. Lunch break was 35 minutes. It comes down to setting State values on a National event.

[Marcus]

Sorry 142 arrows. :rolleyes:
Now do it twice over 2 days.

Because of time constraints there was no break between the first set of 30 arrows and the second set of 30.
The archers shooting in Vic did not have this either and also had no break between the 2 seperate 60 arrow rounds. Only long enough to change their faces and move to the next target. Erika had to eat while she shot. They didn't complain about that because they knew the situation.
I know that Jim was exhausted for his 2nd round on Sunday, he struggled to get through it.
Anyway that's the last I will say on it.

[Thing]

The person complaining about it, was complaining about someone shooting masters and open at the tournament, not compound and recurve.

I don't really see the difference. If you pay two entry fees and shoot double the arrows, it's rediculous to claim they are getting any advantage.

It reminds me of a time, when as a junior I was harrassed by someone for shooting as a senior. That's pretty rediculous. It was during the Ballarat nationals in an fun shoot day (ie not a fita). I didn't want to shoot with him all day because of it and quit, then won in the junior fita the next day :)
The junior and senior nationals were held during the same week.

[edit]
I didn't go this year, but am glad to see it went so well. It was great reading the results over the web as they came in. I'll definitely be there next year. I'd never go to an interstate indoor event unless someone else paid for it.

Webcams or just video podcasts of the events as Jim Park suggested would be great for the website. As long as they were selectable under a menu and not going to slow down browsers of the front page with loading plugins.
For example to add some story telling to the event, it would be great to watch and compare the final end of the top shooters in the event to watch the pressure. Web-journalism. How cute.
Podcasts would be more useful then live webcams (and easier), so the competitors can look at the day's highlights.
Archery isn't really a spectator sport. This isn't something that should be expected from each state's event organisers though.

[StevenB]

multi venue matchplay

[Marcus]

"And that first end is a 30 for Victoria's Sten Nigol, and we'll be back in 3 hours after WA's Alex Wood shoots his next end in response"
:lol:

[James Park]

Bulls on Parade (whoever you are), if you are complaining that I "took a medal you might otherwise have won", I am quite happy to send it too you (just PM me your address and it will be in the mail). I do not shoot to collect medals, but rather because I like shooting and enjoy the company.
I found it to be hard work shooting two rounds consecutively on each day (and I am sure that Bryce, Erica and Trevor would confirm that was their finding as well). I am sure I would score more by shooting half as much (in either of Open or 50+) - and I found it particularly tiring on the Sunday.
I did indeed pay two entry fees, and will do so again.

[Eberbachl]

my suggestion is to not permit individuals to compete in 2 separate age groups in the same tournament, eg. both senior and masters compound divisions.

that pissed me off. i think it's highly unfair to others, even if you do not win at all.

different disciplines in the same tournament i can accept, however.

Why is it unfair to others?

If you get beaten in a division, then suck it up and go and try harder next time ;)

How does the person competing in another division make any difference to your shooting?

If the person pays two entry fees (which they do) and shoots two rounds (which they do), then where could the problem possibly lie?

:rolleyes:

[The One]

Not that it really matters to me... but what the hell I'll throw in my 2c.

I congratulate Erika on her wins, and don't see why she should not be able to continue. I would think, however, that it would be equitable to allow archers in every state the opportunity to do this though if it is to be done at all.

[Hannah]

Not that it really matters to me

Lots of nodding in agreement...

I would think, however, that it would be equitable to allow archers in every state the opportunity to do this though if it is to be done at all.

I wouldn't have thought that this practise (either a person shooting in more than one discipline OR a person shooting in more than one age-group) would be exclusive to Victoria...btw - I see nothing wrong with either scenario.

PS - the only thing that really annoys me about the State/National event is the amount of whinging about medals that goes on! If you win - more power to ya, if you don't - practise and beat the pants off your opponents next year...it really is that simple! That is my aim for next year ;)

[frommy]

In NSW it could be that a person could shoot compound day 1 and recurve day 2, same a s shot by Erica. I have no problem whatsoever about that.

However, the way the event was organinsed a person could NOT have shot compound or recurve in different divisions as they were all shot at once, i.e. all age divisions on the line at the same time in each bow type.

(Edit) I have no problem with something like Jim did, entering and shooting different divisions. Perhaps some people may think that people were allowed multiple entries but only shot once?

Brian

[PeterBennett]

Jim paid for and shot 2 flights, 1 for Open and 1 for masters, he also had to change the division he shot each day as in Victoria if you shoot in the morning day 1 you shoot in the afternoon on day2. I congratulate Jim, in that he shot well enough in both divisions to win them both. I again say I only hope I am able to do so when my age allows me to do so.

Jim you are more than welcome to do so again next year, and I hope you can repeat your performance.

Peter

[OldDog]

Propellor Parks is older than dirt and could die at any moment. That he is trying to cram as much archery into whatever time is left to him is commendable. So stfu and leave the poor old codger alone.:fist:

[CMB50]

Propellor Parks is older than dirt and could die at any moment. That he is trying to cram as much archery into whatever time is left to him is commendable. So stfu and leave the poor old codger alone.:fist:


Jim,

i think that was an O.K from Olddog - I think it was anyway :o

:thumb:

[OldDog]

heck yeah it was Cam. I just hope I can shoot that many arrows when I am that old.:o :grin:

[2Dogs]

In about a year you will be :rofl:..... or you'll be dead :rofl:

[OldDog]

In about a year you will be :rofl:..... or you'll be dead :rofl:
Hey numb nuts. I'm in trainin. upped my rolly intake and now on to 5 big dads pies a day plus 6 cans of coke. Stand aside or lose an eye.:cool: :robot:

[Tegs]

1) Have the it over the SAME amout of days if all states can book the place & have on the same date.

2) MUST have the same practise time ie, Perth this year got a 2x 3arrows practise end and other places got 45 mins.

3)If there is a promblem ie the shooters got extra practise every one gets the same time practise.

So really the states JUST have to work TOGETHER to make a better FAIRIER indoor nationals. Also how can we be ranked 1st 2nd ect when other people had done the shoot over two days and had longer practise? This nationlas as i stated the problems above was disusting.

[SBR]

1) Have the it over the SAME amout of days(2 days if all staes can book the place & have on the same date.

2) MUST have the same practise time ie, Perth this year got a 2x 3arrows practise end and other places got 45 mins.

3)If there is a promblem ie the shooters got extra practise every one gets the same time practise.

So really the states JUST have to work TOGETHER to make a better FAIRIER indoor nationals. Also how can we be ranked 1st 2nd ect when other people had done the shoot over two days and had longer practise? This nationlas as i staed tyhe problems above was disusting.


I think you will find that shooting effectively 2 tournaments in one with the added pressure associated with shooting performance would have a negative effect on your shooting. To say it's unfair is just plain stupidity;)

[2Dogs]

I was thinking while reading some of these posts, how many of the people commenting didn't shoot it :rofl:

You may carry on.

[Jason Livingston]

Well it

[archerybob]

and next time jason do try to turn up on time :) you big drama queen

[Jason Livingston]

You know I love to make an entrance. Big thanks to the officials for helping us out.

[PeterBennett]

TEGS, in Victoria we only had 2/3 arrow practice ends as well. and we had to shoot over 2 days as we had over 160 entries and could not fit everyone in at the same time. I also don't see how you could call this event disgusting, it is the first time such an event has been held and there are bound to be teething problems the first time you do anything this big. As i see it, it all went well except for a few minor hiccups that can and will be addressed next year.

Peter

[Hannah]

1) Have the it over the SAME amout of days(2 days if all staes can book the place & have on the same date.

2) MUST have the same practise time ie, Perth this year got a 2x 3arrows practise end and other places got 45 mins.

3)If there is a promblem ie the shooters got extra practise every one gets the same time practise.

So really the states JUST have to work TOGETHER to make a better FAIRIER indoor nationals. Also how can we be ranked 1st 2nd ect when other people had done the shoot over two days and had longer practise? This nationlas as i staed tyhe problems above was disusting.

I think you may be forgetting that it wasn't just a national event it was also (and some could argue predominantly) a state tournament. The question becomes how much should the national body impose regulations on states in their own jurisdictions. I must ask, how would some people in WA like it if the Eastern seaboard (being the majority of the competitors) imposed times during which WA had to shoot - for fairness' sake? There were people I spoke to who were really annoyed at having to wait for WA's scores to come in because of the time zone difference. I don't see this as a big concern as a little bit of understanding goes a long way. Also you may want to consider that more practise time is not necessarily a good thing for everyone either as it wears some people out. Having said that, as mentioned above, in Vic we had exactly the same practise ends as WA.

Before you start going on about how disgusting an event is try asking some of the organizers how many months preparation it takes to organise an event like this, then say thankyou. It is always a lot easier to find negatives than it is to state positives and a balanced perspective is even harder to find.

[Marcus]

Tegs is cool, I know what she means. ;)

[Patto]

As this looks to be the way to go for future National Indoors (650 archers cant be wrong), I feel we need a set of guidelines for next year to remove any perceived (or real) unfairness.

All titles should be over the same two days, and all archers shoot the same - 120 arrows in the day and AB and CD flights to give the same timing to everone.

As this is a FITA championship, practice must be inaccordance with FITA rules i.e Minimun 20 minutes, maximun 45 minutes and 15 minutes break before scoring starts. Set number of ends of practice are not part of these rules. Nor are the number of arrows shot per end during practice!

I would like to see a Lux reading minimun set. I thought Mountain Archers did a top job in NSW, but I struggled to see the target, particularly later in the day as the venue relied on a lot of natural light. I would suggest hiring some spotlights for next year for each target. I know that most of the permanent venues in other states would not have this problem.

As it is a National Championship, it should take precedent over the State Championships. RGB can use it as their State titles, but it is not a requirement. Apparently this method is widely used in the USA.

Patto
Bruce Paterson
National Judge Candidate
Recorder and Webmaster
Sydney Olympic Park Archers
www.sopa.com.au

[dbjac]

i think it will always be difficult to make all states shoot at the same time regardless of timezones.

Purely because of the numbers, there will have to be differences.
States like Tas, ACT and NQLD can shoot one flight, but victoria physically cannot, we dont have a venue big enough... anywhere. So we will have to shoot A and B, for 3+ flights, so people will always be shooting at different times. And you cant really stretch the ~30 entries for some states into 3+ flights, so shooting time cannot be universal.

[Oldtimer]

'All titles should be over the same two days, and all archers shoot the same - 120 arrows in the day and AB and CD flights to give the same timing to everone.'

What's wrong with a bit of flexibility ? Some venues have plenty of space for those who have entered, others have to cram them in and so must shoot A/Bs. As long as the tournament is shot over the same weekend (where possible), whether you shoot 60 arrows or 120 per day is irrelevant. In the end, we all shoot the same number of scoring arrows. If I shoot all mine on Saturday, you shoot all yours on Sunday, and Joe Blow shoots 60 each day - so what.

[Ed]

As this looks to be the way to go for future National Indoors (650 archers cant be wrong), I feel we need a set of guidelines for next year to remove any perceived (or real) unfairness.

All titles should be over the same two days, and all archers shoot the same - 120 arrows in the day and AB and CD flights to give the same timing to everone.

As this is a FITA championship, practice must be inaccordance with FITA rules i.e Minimun 20 minutes, maximun 45 minutes and 15 minutes break before scoring starts. Set number of ends of practice are not part of these rules. Nor are the number of arrows shot per end during practice!

I would like to see a Lux reading minimun set. I thought Mountain Archers did a top job in NSW, but I struggled to see the target, particularly later in the day as the venue relied on a lot of natural light. I would suggest hiring some spotlights for next year for each target. I know that most of the permanent venues in other states would not have this problem.

As it is a National Championship, it should take precedent over the State Championships. RGB can use it as their State titles, but it is not a requirement. Apparently this method is widely used in the USA.

Patto
Bruce Paterson
National Judge Candidate
Recorder and Webmaster
Sydney Olympic Park Archers
www.sopa.com.au


If you look carefully at FITA Rule 3.19.1.2, you will see that what you say about practice refers only to a Qualification Round. When shooting the Elimination and Finals Rounds, the Organisers may decide on the length of the practice period considering the schedule of each day.

At other FITA events (such as ours last weekend) "practice will be for a maximum of 45 minutes but may be less and the competition will start as soon as possible."

Do you really want to add another hour to each day?

As it was we started the first flight on Day 2 at 8.00am since we did not finish Day 1 until almost 6.00pm after a 9.00am start.

Having said that, I understand the point you are making and to see justice and fairness being seen to be done it may well be a good idea to agree on a set practice time across the board, e.g., 2 x 3-arrow practice ends.

[Tegs]

1) Same amount of days and same date.
2)SAME PRACTISE time
How can we be placed in 1st - last if the conditions were diffrent WA got 6 practise arrows and it was all in one day. I really am ashamed with the little Communication leading up until this?

[Tegs]

WA didnt even get a 15 min break before scoring so how are we going with fita rules?

[Clare Barnes]

Try reading the rules before you comment.

[2Dogs]

:rofl:

Engwish would help too!

[PeterBennett]

TEGS, victoria did not get a 15 minute break after the 2 x 3 arrow practice ends either, so far everything was the same in vic as in wa, I don't see what you're complaining about

Peter

[Ed]

WA didnt even get a 15 min break before scoring so how are we going with fita rules?

Tegs - not only do you need to read the rules, you also need to learn how to spell. Contact me if I can be of assistance in either regard.

[Tegs]

PETER how many days did Victoria shoot over?

[Death Damsel]

One way of solving the problem of fairness across Australia but different requirements for each State would be to separate the State and national Champs. Each state would hold their own State Champs at a time and date to suit them and using whatever format or rules they wanted to. AA would set a date, format and rules for a National Championships and RGBs could run a division of the nationals if they wanted as long as they followed the AA guidelines. This would mean that the nationals were fair and that indoor afficionados would have more than one real tournament in the year to shoot in.

[Tegs]

Peter i was told that the people in the Eastern states and South Aus got a 40 minute break over two days? My source of information must be wrong then.

[Marcus]

PETER how many days did Victoria shoot over?
2 days
1 round per day
For those shooting 2 divisions they had no break between rounds, straight through.

We would not be able to dictate that everyone runs over 2 days as for many this would not be feasable or ecconomically viable. Same goes for forcing everyone to shoot in one day.

Please remember that this event worked because we were flexible. Become restrictive and I promise you it won't work next time.

[Betty-Anne]

Alice Springs is actually the nearest city to the geograpgical centre of Australia. Why don't we hold the next National indoors there. At least then everyone can complain equally about how far it is to get there.

[tj]

I shot recurve masters and recurve open on each day without a break in between rounds and whilst I was a bit peckish for a feed I found the event flowed quite nicely.

I agree with Marcus that it can be tiring but I found the concentration of 120 scoring arrows (indoor) much harder than the physical aspect of shooting those arrows.

tj

[kg]

... and he came away National Masters Recurve Champion to boot!

HUZZAH!! :-D

Congratulations to all champions from weekend's event. In VIC, Erica my hat is off to you particularly!

kg

[Artemis]

Congratulations to all champions from weekend's event. In VIC, Erica my hat is off to you particularly!
kg
Hmmm.... what to do when Erica qualifies for Masters? 4 sessions a day? Can't wait to see that!

[PeterBennett]

TEGS, as soon as 1 flight was finished the next flight came in put up their targets and as soon as everyone was set we started their first practice end. We shot 3 flights each day for 2 days, as we had over 160 competitors, those that shot in more than 1 division or bow type, got about 15 minutes total between shoots. then we did it all again the next day.

Peter

[Marcus]

Alice Springs is actually the nearest city to the geograpgical centre of Australia. Why don't we hold the next National indoors there. At least then everyone can complain equally about how far it is to get there.I trust you will be organising it then?

[2Dogs]

Tegs is like 13?

Might not make 14 ;)

[Brocky]

:rofl:

[Tegs]

Havent read the whole thread why would you say that 2DOGS
By the way nice avator :lol:

[Tegs]

Any way how do you know that i'm 13?

[2Dogs]

I have my spies.....................everywhere!!! ;)

[dbjac]

you really shouldnt be spying on 13yo's... :o

[2Dogs]

Watch it!........or your outa here

[Chris Madeley]

Overall I think it was a very well run tournament, especially for the first time it has been done in australia. It was great to compete against all of australia and although I wasn't standing on the line with many of the people I was competing with, I felt the intensity was just as high as shooting the nationals in Adelaide. We often speculated about how other archers interstate were shooting, which was great and not something you often get to do at a local competition.

At first I was a little sceptical about some states holding the shoot over two days and others shooting all in one day. However in hindsight I feel that I probably wouldn't have shot significantly better if I shot over two days (and possibly even worse). Since it was such a long drive for me to get there, I think I'd rather just do it once. Driving there twice to shoot 60 arrows each day would be a bit frustrating I think. I can see how it would be better to remain flexible on this to make it easier for every state.

In WA the tournament was very slick and well organised, thanks to Bill and the rest of the member who worked together to put the indoor together. The indoor in WA is always huge and Bill always does a great job. I sympathise with those over east who had to wait up late to get the WA results, but that's because we shot until sunset, and then all of the targets had to be taken back to whiteman park before the results were entered. Since there were a few people watching this year, hopefully we can get someone to enter the results as soon as each round is finished next year.

I was a little disappointed that we only got two end practice and would prefer a bit more, especially since there were no warm-up targets. This is possibly something that should be controlled across australia, as I think it made a difference to my score, something that others on the line agreed with. Just to make things worse for myself I didn't know that we only had two ends (my own fault for skipping the half hour pre-shoot lecture) and shot four arrows on the first scoring end!

All in all though a great shoot. I can't wait till next year. Maybe we could do a series of shoots next year? (one a month through winter?)

Thanks to marcus, jim, clare and all were who involved and congratulations to all who shot well.

[Betty-Anne]

you really shouldnt be spying on 13yo's... :o

Gee 2 Dogs, have you got a new hobby?

[Betty-Anne]

I trust you will be organising it then?

You have to admit that a big event at the casino there would be great. But please lighten up, I know it would be uber-hard to organise. And BTW I thought this year went really well and I had a great time. The venue at Toowoomba was excellent and the two flights ran very smoothly. We were some of the lucky ones having 30 minutes of practice before each flight.

Thanks to all

[lewkowski]

Would it be too crazy an idea to invite NZ to shoot on the same weekend and make the event Trans-Tasman as well?

That way we could have State, National and Trans-Tasman championship all in the same event. Would be nice to pull competitors from a broader base into the same event and would increase the pressure to perform.

[The One]

Not a bad idea, but not really suitable for a National champs I'd suggest. Might work better as a postal shoot?

[Archangel]

We could run our Nationals the same weekend and have an extra Trans-Tasman division as well as our respective champs I suppose.

On the other hand, no offense to the organisers of tournaments over there, but getting anything concrete out of AA about the Trans-Tasman is like getting blood from the proverbial stone - this year was a stunning new low.
Note that's AA, _not_ the people actually running the event (ie. Marcus this year), but organising something like that would require communication with them :-o

[Death Damsel]

Sounds like we are going to do the indoor nationals this way again. OK fine. But what about the fact that having the state and national champs combined and all on the same day means that there is only 1 indoor tournament every year that we can compete in. Previously we could do at least 2 and, if we wanted to travel we could shoot in other state champs to get more tournament experience. Is there anything we can do to increase the number of tournaments back to at least what we had?

[2Dogs]

No!.......

Now Just be a good little Damsel, and do something constructive like tidy up your desk :)

[Madeleine Ferris]

Death Damsel

It's a great idea but..... do you know how much these things cost to put on - unless you are lucky enough to have the venue permanently set up? Believe me, it's a LOT.

At this stage SQAS could never afford to put on two Indoor events.

[Death Damsel]

Probably we wouldn't be talking a huge event. Tournaments could even be limited to those on the ranking list or by invitation or something. Most states have some sort of indoor venue that they could use - eg Zen, Black Stump, AIM.

Betty-Anne and I are going to look into it.
(Watch out world!)

[Hannah]

Probably we wouldn't be talking a huge event. Tournaments could even be limited to those on the ranking list or by invitation or something. Most states have some sort of indoor venue that they could use - eg Zen, Black Stump, AIM.

Betty-Anne and I are going to look into it.
(Watch out world!)

I don't like the idea of limiting attendance at all in any way, shape or form...it defeats the original intention of creating an atmosphere to practice in tournaments and just ensures that those who have had more practice (presumably at least one factor in why they are great athletes) get still more. Careful with this sort of thing.

[Death Damsel]

I don't like the idea of limiting attendance at all in any way, shape or form...it defeats the original intention of creating an atmosphere to practice in tournaments and just ensures that those who have had more practice (presumably at least one factor in why they are great athletes) get still more. Careful with this sort of thing.


Good point, we want to encourage people to do indoor archery not discourage them. It's just that the indoor venues available tend to be rather limited in space. But we could get around this by running more flights.

[PeterBennett]

G'Day Damsel, how about a round robin tournament next year between the clubs in vic which have access to an indoor range, one club each week till all clubs with venues have had a shoot, could have overall champion in each division. hold this prior to State/National comp at TCAG. We would be happy to host one night shoot, maybe a friday night so there can be enough flights for everyone, and people wil be able to stay overnight, if they are coming from a distance away.
Peter

[Hannah]

G'Day Damsel, how about a round robin tournament next year between the clubs in vic which have access to an indoor range, one club each week till all clubs with venues have had a shoot, could have overall champion in each division. hold this prior to State/National comp at TCAG. We would be happy to host one night shoot, maybe a friday night so there can be enough flights for everyone, and people wil be able to stay overnight, if they are coming from a distance away.
Peter

Sounds like fun, but I don't know that it could be a Friday night (getting to TCAG from my side of town could take a while...especially in peak hour traffic - and trying to fit in dinner etc). It would have to be over a Sat arvo/evening or something...

[PeterBennett]

We can work those details out as we go. I am just wondering if people would be interested in this format. And any night is fine with me. Besides it will only be 1 night at TCAG and with our kitchen setup we could work something out for a meal as well

[Marcus]

Worth thinking some more about Peter.
TCAG is however 2.5 hous away for me so logistics could be hard, however still worth investigating further.

[PeterBennett]

Thats why I was saying those that are coming a good distance could maybe stay the night. If we run something like this I will attend the DVA shoot if I can sleep on the floor afterwards and shoot with you guys the next day.
We can organise the same thing down here

[Marcus]

At the next shoot lets have a chat about it and work out a format. We need more indoor comps and this sounds ideal.

[PeterBennett]

Will Do

[Death Damsel]

At the next shoot lets have a chat about it and work out a format. We need more indoor comps and this sounds ideal.

don't lets limit it to Victoria, lots of other places have indoor venues too.

[Hannah]

don't lets limit it to Victoria, lots of other places have indoor venues too.

As I understand it, if other states would like a similar sort of structure, then they would have to organise that through their local RGB...however there is nothing stopping others from "stealing" the idea of an indoor round robin ;)

[Betty-Anne]

Indoor matchplay round robin could be fun

[PeterBennett]

No need to steal the idea. everyone can run with it, thats why we need ideas to help advance our sport

[Win for won]

has anyone sugested prize money or sponsorship for the place getting archers...like the outdoor nationals.

Your probably going to say...well thats all good, but where are we going to get the money. I think that if the AA went and asked some big companies for sponsorship they could get the money to do this...and in return the company gets their name labled on everything to do with the event.

Im also thinking that if you cant get a major sponsor to sponsor the event then got to smaller companies to sponsor cirtain divisionslike have one sponsor for open mens recurve/compound, another for open ladies recurve/compound etc etc.

I think this would make the 2007 indoor nationals better

[machinegunjones]

has anyone sugested prize money or sponsorship for the place getting archers...like the outdoor nationals.

Your probably going to say...well thats all good, but where are we going to get the money. I think that if the AA went and asked some big companies for sponsorship they could get the money to do this...and in return the company gets their name labled on everything to do with the event.

Im also thinking that if you cant get a major sponsor to sponsor the event then got to smaller companies to sponsor cirtain divisionslike have one sponsor for open mens recurve/compound, another for open ladies recurve/compound etc etc.

I think this would make the 2007 indoor nationals better

Sounds like a great idea! I always wondered why nothing much happened after Simon won his gold in Sydney. AA should have gone absoloutely mental promoting the sport whilst the interest was so high. The silence was almost deafening!

I think a) corporate sponsorship along with b) major achievements on a world stage (and subsequent publicity), are the only real ways to get archery really cranking in this country... but they are so often heavilly reliant on each other...

[James Park]

To get sponsorship it is essential that you have something of value to provide to the sponsor. The sponsors are never in it through simple philanthropy, they always expect to get back ten times what they put in (at least). Until you work out what the value it is that we offer, don't even dream about sponsors.

[Craig R]

I haven't read all the posts, so the answer may already be in here, but where are the 2007 Indoor Champs being held? Or hasn't it been decided yet?
Cheers

[Marcus]

Like this year they will be held in all states over the same weekend and linked together using an internet based system
you can see last year's website here
http://www.archery-forum.com/indoor/

[Shermo]

I enjoyed the Indoor shoot this year, and will compete again in 2007:D

The only thing I would like to see is the same format for all states;

Saturday: 60 Arrows
Sunday: 60 Arrows
Target Faces: The same for all states.

Other than that, everything was fine this year IMO. Mountain Archers in NSW did a great job, the lighting was adequate and everything ran smoothly.

[Hannah]

I enjoyed the Indoor shoot this year, and will compete again in 2007:D

The only thing I would like to see is the same format for all states;

Saturday: 60 Arrows
Sunday: 60 Arrows
Target Faces: The same for all states.

Other than that, everything was fine this year IMO. Mountain Archers in NSW did a great job, the lighting was adequate and everything ran smoothly.
Please, please, please don't let this start again! That really IS opening a can of worms...and I got sick of it last time...

[primal]

Please, please, please don't let this start again! That really IS opening a can of worms...and I got sick of it last time...
i assume you mean the lighting?

[Hannah]

i assume you mean the lighting?
That and how many arrows per day in each state, and all the other BS that went with it - but yes, especially the lighting ;)

[longbowinfected]

My very quick thoughts.

- All states shoot on the same day(s) at the same time (of course time zones throw this out a touch).
- Optional entry into the National event is the State event is run at the same time
- All 3 spot vertical or all 3 spot triangle. Same faces for all.
- Minimum Lux values at both target and line
- Max and Minimum target face (butt) angles
I respect your applied thought in this but not many longbow archers would care to shoot single arrows at single small target faces. Life is interesting enough without that.

Longbowinfected.
__________________________________________________ _____
Long bow: the last resort of the failed archer

[katzgrin]

I seem to recall someone made the comment that the lighting at their venue should give them a distinct advantage over everyone else. Perhaps admin could look up the post. Marcus?

[Marcus]

I seem to recall someone made the comment that the lighting at their venue should give them a distinct advantage over everyone else. Perhaps admin could look up the post. Marcus?
I think I may have said it.
Why? Do we need to go over all this again?
AA has released to the states the lighting standard.

[katzgrin]

:wink: just stirring.

[The One]

I seem to recall someone made the comment that the lighting at their venue should give them a distinct advantage over everyone else. Perhaps admin could look up the post. Marcus?

A bright target is still a target, and still round. Just shoot it!