2006 Indoor What a crock!

[competitor]

This so-called national event was a farce and should not be run this way. How can it even be considered an even playing field when

(a) there is a huge difference between shooting at 3500ft altitude in 9 0r 10 degree temperature compared to say a comfortable 24 degrees in Queensland.

(b) the lighting cannot possibly be the same.

(c) Competitors do not have their equipment inspected by the same judges

(d) There was definitely a question regarding the whether the criteria being applied to long bow equipment was being applied in other states and this question is still to be answered.

(e) Some states shot 60 arrows one day and 60 the next allowing time for recovery as opposed to having to shoot the entire 120 arrows in one day!

While there was a huge entry, how many of us did not get the choice of entering the national or not. If we didn

[2Dogs]

Opinions are like assholes....

You are what we call the vocal minority. Simple solution, next time don't enter ;)

[Cartz]

[QUOTE=competitor]This so-called national event was a farce and should not be run this way. How can it even be considered an even playing field when

(a) there is a huge difference between shooting at 3500ft altitude in 9 0r 10 degree temperature compared to say a comfortable 24 degrees in Queensland.

(b) the lighting cannot possibly be the same.

(c) Competitors do not have their equipment inspected by the same judges

(d) There was definitely a question regarding the whether the criteria being applied to long bow equipment was being applied in other states and this question is still to be answered.

(e) Some states shot 60 arrows one day and 60 the next allowing time for recovery as opposed to having to shoot the entire 120 arrows in one day!

While there was a huge entry, how many of us did not get the choice of entering the national or not. If we didn

[Archangel]

Bitch and bloody moan...
This is the umpteenth thread about the same thing. The lighting issue has been thrashed to death, which you'd know if you'd been on the site before rather than just leaping in to complain.

As Cartz said, judges are judges. If your equipment's legal, it'll be fine pretty much anywhere. Your point about longbows may be valid, but it's a general complaint about judging - they should be able to apply the same criteria in different states at all shoots, not just the multi venue ones.

And as for poor diddums having to shoot 120 arrows in one day - get over it!

[competitor]

Comments from people that normally wouldnn't get off their arse to enter don't mean a bloody thing!

[recurve boy]

d) So? Longbows are for fun....and hitting people with

I'm going to agree with OP on this point for this very reason. I have no idea about longbow rules, but I heard a few longbowers were told that the rest area on their bows was too deep.

I guess rules are rules and you should know them, but as you say, longbows are for fun.

Anyone know why such a rule exists? I don't see why a few mm on the rest would give you an advantage.

[competitor]

Don't have a problem with the rules, point is different judges, different venues. Question re conformity of all Statest o rules was posed to Chairman of judges and is still unanswered, especially when over all the years this rule has never been applied. FYI my equipment complied!

[Archangel]

I'm going to agree with OP on this point for this very reason. I have no idea about longbow rules, but I heard a few longbowers were told that the rest area on their bows was too deep.

I guess rules are rules and you should know them, but as you say, longbows are for fun.

Anyone know why such a rule exists? I don't see why a few mm on the rest would give you an advantage.
Technically it does, since it takes you closer to centreshot, which longbows are sorely lacking. I agree that it seems a bit draconian, but you've got to draw the line somewhere.

[Archangel]

Comments from people that normally wouldnn't get off their arse to enter don't mean a bloody thing!
I'm not eligible to compete at it anyway... ;-)

[competitor]

The senseless comments made by some of you, show a true lack of integrity and understanding of fair play and sportsmanship.

It is obvious that you would not bother to compete in a real face to face National indoor and have had to have this event handed to you on a platter.

You seem eager to have your own ego stroked bay an event which really was a nationwide score comparison, rather than a true National event.

If you think that you had the same atmosphere and pressure by shooting at home, then you are sadly mistaken.

FYI lighting is extremely important as any compound shooter will tell you. As far as shooting 120 arrows in one hit goes, why didn't it happen in all states?

Any perceived lack of interest in holding this tournament at one venue is due to your own apathy and unwillingness to go out of your way.

The bottom line is, if your not prepared to put up, shut up!

[dbjac]

so shut up then.

[OldDog]

did anyone see Mars.:rolleyes:

[Kerrie W]

Are you for real????:o

Did you bother helping to organise this event or did you just show up to compete thinking it was something else???

As far as I know, everyone pretty much knew what it was all about before hand.....If you didn't like the idea, then why would you even bother going...

I take it that you didn't do any good and you have had a week to boil on it and look for other excuse's as to why you shot so badly... Dry your tears and get on with your practise for next year:eek:

[archerybob]

The bottom line is, if your not prepared to put up, shut up!

here you go competitor my name is robert turner i am from queensland and every point you have brought up is stupid to the point of laughing. i think your an idiot................YOUR TURN.

[competitor]

You just don't get it do you?

We objected to this event weeks before it was held. However, if you wanted to contest the State, we were compelled to enter the National. If there had been I certainly would not have entered out of principle. Do you know that word?

There was no choice! And for your information, I got a national gold. What's your story?

[archerybob]

miao...........lol you pussy

[StevenB]

competitor, you are a dick head. own up to your post and you might get some respect.

As for competitors in the running to place, well there really only a handful say 20 across the 4 divisions (MR LR MC and LC)

[StevenB]

Oh, Steven Butcher here

[archerybob]

ROFL cats got competitors tongue

[competitor]

All I have read from people on this site is a lot of pathetic name calling. Is there anyone out there that can actually dispute the facts that I have laid out?

I would not deny that shooting an Indoor was a lot of fun and the clubs that put on the event are to be congratulated, but at the end of the day, this was a National postal competition and will never be anything else.

If the sport is going down this road, I too, can only wonder what is next?

[Marcus]

There was no choice! And for your information, I got a national gold. What's your story?
Yeah in a division with 2 competitors and last in the other one you competed in.
Originally got second but the guy who won had asked to change from Masters to Veterans.
Well done.

If you hated it so much don't enter next time.

This event will take a number of years to get perfect. We are compiling a list of things to look at to make it better.

[quote]While there was a huge entry, how many of us did not get the choice of entering the national or not. If we didn

[competitor]

Defend it all you like. It won't change the facts!

[archerybob]

lol.......... your so called facts have been blown out of the water at every point (in more than one thread on this forum). you hide behind a pseudo name and even have the gall to get upset at the nats being in WA cause it will "cost you so much" that statement alone shows your lack of grey matter..........in closing you are what is bad about this sport...........enjoy my reply you so called "competitor"

[Eberbachl]

All I have read from people on this site is a lot of pathetic name calling. Is there anyone out there that can actually dispute the facts that I have laid out?

I would not deny that shooting an Indoor was a lot of fun and the clubs that put on the event are to be congratulated, but at the end of the day, this was a National postal competition and will never be anything else.

If the sport is going down this road, I too, can only wonder what is next?

So competitor,

What's your real name?

If your comments are important enough to put forward, how about doing them the justice of backing them with your identity.....

[Flehrad]

Donald Chiou is my name, member of Sydney University Archery. I came in 4th in Opens Men's Recurve in the State, and 14th in the National listing.

I am a student on scholarship, and I paid $400 to go to the indoor, petrol, accomodation, food, entry. And guess what? I'll happily do it again next year.

As for Perth, I think it is unfair, and stupid, for the event to be held in the same location if it is a *National* event. Rotation to different capital cities is a excellent idea as it means, if you want to be the best, you have to be able to shoot in any location, weather and conditions that nature dishes out. Suck it up and just shoot instead of complaining.

If you're not going, all the better for the rest of the competitors because they will not have to bear with your voice of complaint. A trip to Perth will cost me a lot, but I love the sport, and to compete at my best, with my friends and peers, I am happy to take 1 week of my holidays (4 weeks a year), pay a month's worth of scholarship, and have a great time.

I don't really care who you are (since with Marcus' information, I could look up the results) but it niggles me that 1) you start a new thread to complain instead of putting your opinions in the two existing threads on the Indoor event (as I said in giving you negative rep), and 2) that it looks like you only joined AF specifically to bag out the event.

[Marcus]

Defend it all you like. It won't change the facts!
What facts? You only made things up and put a nasty spin on them to slam an event.
So lets look at facts hey
Fact 1: You shot in 2 events. Came last in one and only got gold in another because someone convinced the original winner to change events.
Fact 2: You did not shoot the National Indoor in 2004 or 2005. So you clearly don't put up either.
Fact 3: I am a compounder and I can tell you lighting is NOT the huge issue people make it out to be. It comes down to correct equipment choices for indoor, which few people make. Micro peeps are the competitors fault, not the organisers.
Fact 4: The lighting can and is often different in the SAME VENUE. Indoor has chellenges of it's own, suck it up! It was colder down my end on day one than the other end of the range.
Fact 5: Many of the winners shot 120 arrows in one day, including a number who did that on BOTH DAYS shooting 240 arrows. If it's such a huge handicap they would not have won. And they had more than 2 in their division also.
Fact 6: Hits are Hits on a website. In fact it technically wasn't hits, it was page loads which are actually smaller than hits. Hits would have been around 100,000. (let me guess you built a wesbite once that no one visited?)
Fact 7: Don't like the temperature where you live? Move and see who will have you. In Victoria it was close to zero outside so the organisers arranged heating. In 2006 we have things like heating. It's neat, check it out.
Fact 8: Some states did have the option to enter the Nationals and many archers missed out because of this. In those states the number who entered both was around 98%. Obviously many were not 'conned'
Fact 9: The Nationals are in Perth because they put their hand up for it. It would be VERY wrong for AA to say "Sory Perth, you are too far away, it will be in Sydney this year"
Fact 10: You have called this a failure. An event that increased particpation for the states by 20% is a success in my book.

I am happy to notify your state body for you that you won't be competing next year.

Anyway for every person like this I have heard from 10 others who loved it.

[OldDog]

Still havnt seen mars.:rolleyes:

[Marcus]

Anyone who wants his name, you can page me. :rofl:

[OldDog]

Anyone who wants his name, you can page me. :rofl:
Has he seen Mars.:confused:

[beetle]

join ABA

Great. :roll:

Please don't.

:rofl:

[competitor]

I have no beef with the 2007 Nationals in Perth, the point I was making was that one of the reasons I was given for putting on the Indoor Nationals as a postal shoot was that people would not travel to the event. I go back to my original statement that if you want to compete in a National event, you should be prepared to travel to it.

I regret that some of you have had to resort to personal attacks on myself when I have only been exercising my right to comment about a concept I regard as misguided. I ask you again to reread my original letter and give me factual evidence that I am incorrect.

I also thank Marcus for demonstrating his lack of ethics as administrator of this site, and put his vigourous defence of this event down to his sense of perceived ownership.

I note that apart from Steve Butcher, the requests for my name come from people that havn't given theirs.

[Flehrad]

Anyone who wants his name, you can page me. :rofl:

I didn't ask for it and it got paged to me by someone else! LOL

[Archangel]

I think one of the previously unrealised benefits of a multi-venue event is that at least the archers in the other venues wouldn't have had to put up with Mr. Competitor.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to competitor again." :-(

[OldDog]

I have no beef with the 2007 Nationals in Perth, the point I was making was that one of the reasons I was given for putting on the Indoor Nationals as a postal shoot was that people would not travel to the event. I go back to my original statement that if you want to compete in a National event, you should be prepared to travel to it.

I regret that some of you have had to resort to personal attacks on myself when I have only been exercising my right to comment about a concept I regard as misguided. I ask you again to reread my original letter and give me factual evidence that I am incorrect.

I also thank Marcus for demonstrating his lack of ethics as administrator of this site, and put his vigourous defence of this event down to his sense of perceived ownership.

I note that apart from Steve Butcher, the requests for my name come from people that havn't given theirs.
Nathan Kadiddlehopper here...why dont you **** orf.:fist: Dr Rad

[Marcus]

THERE IS NO STANDARD OF ETHICS ON RUNNING A FORUM. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COME ON HERE AND ATTACK EVERYONE UNDER AN ALIAS.
THIS FORUM IS NOT BOUND BY YOUR ETHICAL STANDARDS.
TROLL ON THIS SITE AND EXPECT TO BE OUTED FOR IT.
YOU HAVE POSTED 7 TIMES. YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS HERE.
FEEL FREE TO BRING IT UP WITH THE UNITED NATIONS AND SEE WHAT THEY SAY.

Thank the other people in your demographic who have caused nothing but trouble on this forum the last 12 months.

I ask you again to reread my original letter and give me factual evidence that I am incorrect.
Gave you 10 of them. Please feel free to dispute any of my 10 facts.

[CMB50]

pfft....


A quick search of the indoor results tells me his name is Ken Raye.

Congratulations on the Gold medal! :hail:

[OldDog]

You've come farrr.Ken Raye.:rolleyes:

[Flame]

I haven't seen you for years Nathan :D

Nathan Kadiddlehopper here

[OldDog]

I haven't seen you for years Nathan :D
Been fishin with my longbow.:rolleyes:

[Freeman]

I just want to say something about the point made to do with preasure or the face to face format. I have shot alot of tournaments here in Australia and around the world and this sort of preasure of not knowing how other archers were performing until the day was over.....was a feeling that I have never experienced before and it a feeling/preasure that I think wouldonly make us better archers. Keep it going I say and more of it

[PeterBennett]

Competitor,
Fact 1. lighting, it was not the same in all venues, we know that, but if you want to improve it do what we did, don't complain about it get off your arse and fix it.

Fact 2. temperature, again was not the same in each venue, it was damn cold here in victoria, we the organisers heated the venue, if you want to improve your venues temperature get off your arse and do so

Fact 3. Judges, as a judge at a tournament I do not inspect every competitors bow, a group of us do so different judges inspect equipment at every tournament.

Fact 4. As a longbow shooter and a judge, i can tell you for a fact that the equipment for the longbow division in Victoria was correct.

Fact 5. As to shooting different amounts of arrows on each day that may be a problem to a few people, but I did not see it as so, as we were informed that the event ran for the whole weekend and every competitor shoot the same 120 arrows over the weekend.

In victoria we did have the option to shoot Nationals or not and out of over 160 entries only 9 did not and some of those were because they did not read the entry form correctly and missed out. Next year Victorian shooters will not have the option either as therte was a lot of extra work for just 9 entries.

The Indoor Nationals in the last few years have been held in Adelaide with entries of between 100 and 120, this years event had over 650 and looks to be bigger next year, so I think the archers have voted with their attendances to the fact that this years event did work.

As to the 2007 Nationals being in Perth, congratulations to the perth team for putting up their hands to do run such a huge event, I will be going as will a few of my clubmembers. Having run this years Nationals I know how much they are doing and how much yet to do. The Nationals is an event for all archers and just because it is far away is no reason not to let perth host it, after all the WA archers have been travelling over to this side of the country every year to attend Nationals. Again if it is too far for you, please put up your hand, get up off your arse again and try to host a Nationals yourself.

In summary. If you don't like the way this years Indoor Nationals went get up off your arse put up your hand and try to do it better

Peter

[Marcus]

Hello competitor, I see you. :o :p

[Hannah]

First some facts, I did shoot in both State and National event in Victoria (a choice here this year, that I have argued should not be). I came 14th nationally and 6th in the state in my division (open women's compound) - and am very pleased to have done so! I have never shot in a national tournament before (I am 10 months young to the sport), but have listened to a range of opinions and have my own set of opinions. I would like to add a couple of things that I think should be noted.

In victoria we did have the option to shoot Nationals or not and out of over 160 entries only 9 did not and some of those were because they did not read the entry form correctly and missed out. Next year Victorian shooters will not have the option either as therte was a lot of extra work for just 9 entries.

Out of the nine people who did not enter both, I spoke to most. I was dissapointed that there reasoning was that they were not going to win a medal (especially because some didn't win a medal in the state tourny either - should they not have entered the state one either?). In my opinion this is an extremely uncompetitive reason. Of the others, as Peter mentioned, a few did not fill out the form correctly. So you can see that the majority of people condoned and supported the event (at least in Vic anyway).

As to the 2007 Nationals being in Perth, congratulations to the perth team for putting up their hands to do run such a huge event, I will be going as will a few of my clubmembers. Having run this years Nationals I know how much they are doing and how much yet to do. The Nationals is an event for all archers and just because it is far away is no reason not to let perth host it, after all the WA archers have been travelling over to this side of the country every year to attend Nationals. Again if it is too far for you, please put up your hand, get up off your arse again and try to host a Nationals yourself.

I would add that it is far MORE competitive for the Nationals outdoors event to be held at the same venue. Indoor is more about psychology - what goes on in your head - that is where the difficulty comes from, not the equitable usage of various venue types. After all they are all held indoors and whilst it is true that there is going to be variables, these are going to be far less for an indoor than it would be for an outdoor event.

As to Competitors comment asking about the future of the rest of the National events, I think this is irrelevant because, as mentioned before, the different pre-requisites for an outdoor event as opposed to an indoor event are different entirely.

Further, how is it fair/equitable to force local RGB's to enforce rulings from a national body? There always has to be a balance - this balance seems to have been lost. As has been mentioned plenty of times on this thread as well as the two others on this topic there a number of things that the event organisers are looking at to improve the event. Rather than posting a bull-sh#t post on a topic that has been talked about for much longer than it should be, try making some improvement suggestions and posting them in the correct area defined (I think you will find that the organisers have requested any suggestions and can be posted in the thread entitled 'Suggestions for indoor nationals 2007'). Mind you, anyone wishing to do so will have to give reasons and backing as to why these suggestions should occur. From Competitors 'fact list' there has been none given - maybe a reason why people didn't start giving reasons in arguement???

Competitor, it sounds to me like you are trying to destroy a fantastic sport by trying to 'convert' others to your cause - do you really want to see UNcompetitiveness rife?

[REIDY]

In my opinion, the nationals were a great success. A lot is owed to few people for getting off their tails and having a go at something new. Full credit to those who are trying to resurrect a great tournament when they could quite easily have just accepted the decline in numbers and lead a less stressful existence.

Everybody on this forum would agree that there are things that can be changed and improved and have presented ideas without any bitterness. Those involved in this years running have only been too willing to accept constructive critiscism.

But Competitor, yours is not constructive but a deliberate attempt to invoke bad reactions from well meaning people and this is evident even from the opening title!!!! If this was your intention then unfortunately it has worked but any slight chance that you had of making a creditable argument disappeared when you decided to do it 'anonymously'. There is a right way and a wrong way of doing things - yours is the latter.

Where are you now that your name is known?

BTW, I hope that you enjoy your 'gold medal', it sounds like you earned it!!!


Peter

[The One]

The senseless comments made by some of you, show a true lack of integrity and understanding of fair play and sportsmanship.

It is obvious that you would not bother to compete in a real face to face National indoor and have had to have this event handed to you on a platter.

You seem eager to have your own ego stroked bay an event which really was a nationwide score comparison, rather than a true National event.

If you think that you had the same atmosphere and pressure by shooting at home, then you are sadly mistaken.

FYI lighting is extremely important as any compound shooter will tell you. As far as shooting 120 arrows in one hit goes, why didn't it happen in all states?

Any perceived lack of interest in holding this tournament at one venue is due to your own apathy and unwillingness to go out of your way.

The bottom line is, if your not prepared to put up, shut up!

You are such a muppet

Signed,
Andrew Russell
Grand High Jedi Master, Level 984267
Also knows Kung Fu, Tai Kwon Do and other Asian-sounding words

[hoyt for life 2]

yawn, Ive never hird complaints about this format in NZ.

[Zoe]

Thank the other people in your demographic who have caused nothing but trouble on this forum the last 12 months.


Which demographic? Middle-aged males or barebow compounders? Or middle-aged male barebow compounders? That's about your dream combination isn't it Marcus?

[Brocky]

I would have believed that every archer who shot on the day travelled to the nationals.

[2Dogs]

" One Potato Two Potato three Potato,... Competitor can coun't to Potato"

Get back in the sheltered workshop! ;)

[Cartz]

This entire thread sounds like a simple case of 'sour grapes' to me....

So what if you got a 'gold medal' in your division...that doesn't give you any higher opinion than the rest of those who have posted. Face it, you are, as 2dogs finely put it...a vocal minority.

Yes...you have to right to voice your opinions, we've agreed to disagree, but don't go ahead and make a fool of yourself infront of the nation. It might force others to form their own opinions of whether you actually deserve your medal or not.

[Brocky]

Come on 2dogs nothing wrong with managing a sheltered work shop I mean thats where I met you as a student ;)

[2Dogs]

Yeah you were an apprentice Handbag Painter weren't you? :D

[OldDog]

Yeah you were an apprentice Hangbag Painter weren't you? :D
No bites....Must have paint on his hands.:p :p

[Eberbachl]

I note that apart from Steve Butcher, the requests for my name come from people that havn't given theirs.

I requested your name.

If you check out my login name, it's Eberbachl

First name Luke. Last name Eberbach.

...so - what's yours?

EDIT - Cam told us...

Thanks for nothing Ken.

[Eberbachl]

OK...I just checked out the results of the indoor.

After having done so...Ken,

a: I now know why you need to complain about something

b: I now know why you wanted to remain anonymous

:rofl:

Do you really think that differences in altitude or lighting would have made a difference?

:rofl:

[Dave Shannon]

There's just no pleasing everyone, is there.
After reading all the posts i beleive the majority rules.

[Brocky]

:rofl: and from memory you where still learning how to find the handbag to pass to me. How things have changed you have taken the fetish to the next,next, next level handbags and now stockings and wearing them in public.:grin:

[robbo]

Which demographic? Middle-aged males or barebow compounders? Or middle-aged male barebow compounders? That's about your dream combination isn't it Marcus?



Mmmm and whats wrong with middle aged barebow compounders? (insert shocked smiley here)

[Bruce]

So Ken ,

Will you and your club members be putting there hands up tohost the 2008 indoor Nationals ?

IF so what will you be offering the members of the archery community


I look forward to your response . IT is easy to be negative , but lets see what you can offer to make the 2008 event a bigger success.

I don't think you should submit a proposal for 2007 , but put together a proposal for 2008 , include a business plan and outline for what you propose . I am sure we will all look forward to seeing what you can offer

[ninevalleys]

Competitor, one of the challenges in archery is to shoot in different conditions is t not? if someone at yoru local range was not affected by wind on a particularly windy day, and you were would youcomplain?? think about it. where the hell would anyone in OZ find a arena big enough to fit ALL entrants??? as for longbow rules, my club took the initiative to get the most current rules to date and enforce them (though our longbow dude didnt show up).. so that is also classed under club initiative. oh and the temp was just fine in NQ, if anything it was too hot..

cheers NV

[Bulls On Parade]

although i don't agree with him (competitor), i do think he should be able to vent his opinion without being flamed at every corner for doing so. there may not be a code of ethics on this forum, but there still are things called common decency and tolerance.

on that note, i believe a lot, but not all, of you have a long way to go before it can be said you possess those qualities.

i wonder who's going to flame me for that one?:p

oh, and by the way, i'm lachlan drummond for anyone who thinks i'm not man enough to put an identity to my claims.

[Flame]

You rang :D




i wonder who's going to flame me for that one?:p

.

[CMB50]

Dr Rad

[Flehrad]

There be nothing wrong with voicing his opinion, however the manner that he chose to do so (such as starting a completely new thread to voice it so strongly) probably was not the best.....

although i don't agree with him (competitor), i do think he should be able to vent his opinion without being flamed at every corner for doing so. there may not be a code of ethics on this forum, but there still are things called common decency and tolerance.

on that note, i believe a lot, but not all, of you have a long way to go before it can be said you possess those qualities.

i wonder who's going to flame me for that one?:p

oh, and by the way, i'm lachlan drummond for anyone who thinks i'm not man enough to put an identity to my claims.

[Bulls On Parade]

You rang :D
:D

There be nothing wrong with voicing his opinion, however the manner that he chose to do so (such as starting a completely new thread to voice it so strongly) probably was not the best.....
"on that note, i believe a lot, but not all, of you have a long way to go before it can be said you possess those qualities"
i had competitor in mind with that.

[frommy]

Ken

[REIDY]

I think that most people are on the right track and are not questioning a persons right to an opinion, however, you cannot openly attack people who have worked hard at something and not expect them to get on the defensive. It is human nature. I think that the thing that affects most of us so much is that this person has tried to do it anonymously.

This person may have ideas but they are not going to get other people to listen to the core concerns if they attack the organisers with such aggression. It is little wonder that most on this forum have taken such an insult personally.

Anyone who works in areas where they regularly need to communicate ideas with others would tell you that the best approach would be "I had a great time this year, but I have a few ideas for next year that I would like to run by you....." and the majority of members have chosen to do just that.

Pete

[James Park]

In general, what I would like to see is the reasons why we can try new things that might move the sport (and our fun) forward. Sure there will be problems and things we can do better next time, but lets us at least have a go - we just might find something we all like.
What annoys me intensely is those who persist in pointing out why it is impossible to do things - we get nowhere like that.

[Friar Tuck]

In general, what I would like to see is the reasons why we can try new things that might move the sport (and our fun) forward. Sure there will be problems and things we can do better next time, but lets us at least have a go - we just might find something we all like.
What annoys me intensely is those who persist in pointing out why it is impossible to do things - we get nowhere like that.

What he said with more emphasis on the "have a go" aspect.

If clubs are to get more people involved in Archery then this sort of event needs to be run. A lot of juniors are not able to compete at one National event to satisfy someones need for "same conditions for all" mentality. At least this way I could take my daughter to an indoor event and give her the opportunity of having some fun and competing, something I will do next time.

MHO

Regards

Antony Goyen

[STRINGWALKER]

Exactly Jim, I believe the national indoor format was a good idea and as with every thing in life, next years event will be that much better. Organising events is a hard task and if someone does it to the best of their ability or budget then take the positives and move on.
Australia is a massive country and distance for some is cost prohibitive, so make a list of the what was right and wrong and aim it at next years indoor.

[Marcus]

At least this way I could take my daughter to an indoor event and give her the opportunity of having some fun and competing, something I will do next time.

Exactly. Those slamming the idea should at least think about everyone else. Not everyone has the time or money to travel interstate all the time to compete.

[Matti Laakso]

Still havnt seen mars.:rolleyes:
OLD DOG! - I just saw Mars!
and my user name is - well .....
I am not a competitor, and I just hope that my opinions don't get flamed for that, but one thing I do know is every member of the club to which I belong thouroughly enjoyed travelling to the event, staying the night in beautiful Toowoomba and enjoyed the hospitality and comaraderie of the SQAS archery fraternity.
They also liked the hard work by others to get the scores up on the web!
Seriously!

Right - enough sucking - back to watching Mars!

[Brocky]

I agree with Jim, you can see why Victoria is looking better all the time. People are thinking out of the box and its working horrifying all those who are stuck in there ways.

[Merv. Grinstead]

My name is Merv Grinstead I am the secretary for Twin City Archers. I dont normally get so incensed that I have to sit and do my one finger typing but the amount of whinging that is going on over the recent State & National Indoor has finally done it I thought that only us poms could whinge woohoo have you lot shoved that out the window.
Firstly Iwould like to say that I HAVE ASSISTED IN RUNNING 8 STATE INDOOR TOURNAMENTS,4 STATE TARGET TOURNAMENTS & LAST YEAR THE AUST NATIONALS also I assisted DVA IN THEIR NATIONALS,so I know what I am talking about.
What I have to say is to all you whingers if you have a whinge take it to your RGB and or the very few people that got together and worked their arsses of to give you somewhere to shoot but do it as constructive criticism and while you are there offer to help them next year you whinging rat bags that way you might have heating or cooling good lighting and good butts because all your whinging does is make those few
that set your venue up feel they have worked for nothing.
We at Twin City Archers are happy to take on board any well meaning suggestions on how to improve our Indoor Stadium and if it can be done we will do it.
If any person wants to know how to improve their lighting or butts very cheaply send me an e-mail
One more thing to all you whingers if thats all you can do dont go next year because it will be bigger and better without you anyway
Many thanks to J Park M. Annear, Clare Barnes keep up the good ideas most of us will back you all the way
Cheers Merv old buzzard

[Brocky]

Yah you bloody KW's we Ausi's where under control until you guys got involved.;)

[Eolla]

So a lost issue in this thread is light level at indoor events yes?? Can we set a standard and ensure the DOS has a light meter.

Also I agree with Jim in trying new things with our sport, the National indoor concept was a good one and worth pursuing.

I have never seen a club deliberately run a poor tournament, in fact I have never shot a tournament where there were more than one or two annoying things happen. Referring to a clubs hard work as a joke or farcical only gets everyones back up. A quick note to the DOS on the day quietly airing your concerns will achieve more. Even better would be to offer to host next years tournament yourself, with you being in charge of everything.

[Marcus]

Next person to suggest that we check light levels at the Indoor Nationals next year will be banned for life.

No joking, try me out.

[frommy]

Next person to suggest that we check light levels at the Indoor Nationals next year will be banned for life.

No joking, try me out.

So, Eolla, do you have the rego number for the Marcus Proton?:cool:

Seriously though, I agree with Marcus. It is up to the RGB's to allocate/run/coordinate the event to the best advantage of their members.

Brian

[StevenB]

In a perfect world, all venues would be equal (actually in a perfect world everyone could afford to go to the one venue for the indoor)

Trying to dictate a minimum lighting level for the venues is beyond the abilities of many of the RGBs to control. SA and NSW did not use club owned venues, and they don't really have control of the lighting, other than adding flood lamps etc(which aren't always the best answer).

As has been said, it should be up to the states and their members to ensure they have the best possible venue available to them for the shoot.

Having all the states shooting the same format would be nice, but might not be in the best interests for each RGB's members

[2Dogs]

other than adding flood lamps etc(which aren't always the best answer).

The SQAS venue was not a Club facility, and they brought in a flood lamp for every target.

Works a treat. Lighting was fine.

[bigfella]

The SQAS venue was not a Club facility, and they brought in a flood lamp for every target.

Works a treat. Lighting was fine.

Not difficult to do and easily monitored with regard to light intensity

[gt]

When I first saw the account of how this tournament was conducted, I was going to compliment the organizers for forward thinking and for creating an event where many more could participate while still adhering to the letter and spirit of the rules. Also, it was impressive to me that the results could be quickly coordinated and champions identified in such a short time.

Here in the USA we have been conducting the NAA indoor nationals as a multi-venue event, generally two available venues per US region and two separate weekends, for many years. The participation level is about six to eight times that of the former single-venue format. The travel cost of competing in the event has decreased drastically, and no one questions the quality of the event. (There are multiple World records posted from various US indoor events conducted this way).

Unlike your event, our NAA seems to need a week or more after the final event to coordinate the scores from each region and post the champions, but this isn't a big issue for us.

Yes, lighting and other conditions at all the various US venues are quite different from venue to venue, some are wonderful places to shoot, some are horrid, but it seems the same people rise to the top no matter where they shoot (and many of the top US shooters shoot different venues from year to year depending on travel, timing, and other reasons).

Of course, now that I have seen the arguments posted by one of your competitors, I guess I have to consider the possibility that the way we do it in the USA is wrong, the way you do it in Australia is wrong, and we should all go back to the single-venue format, so no one questions the "fairness" of the thing.

Or not.



(not!)

[2Dogs]

NOT! ...... lucky you didn't mention the Lux factor or Marcus would ban your Arse (Ass for you yanks)

:D

[StevenB]

LUX?


you mean people where complaining about the soap in the bogs as well?

[frommy]

LUX?


you mean people where complaining about the soap in the bogs as well?

I though that was (ref)lux? :p

[Flehrad]

Well, BrettK nearly accident'ed himself on the line, which would have been.... nasty...

[Merv. Grinstead]

Yah you bloody KW's we Ausi's where under control until you guys got involved.;)

Firstly Brocky I did not say I was a KW I said Iwas a pom just a sec I will print it in big letters slowly so you can read it POM got it and as a matter of fact I bet I have lived in this country longer than you have

[Clare Barnes]

Thanks to the efficient results and states promptly sending me the scorecards:

The National Championship medals for the recent Indoor Championships have been/will be received by the RGB (State) Recorders this week. It is up to each state as to how they are distributed/presented to the archers.

All Gold and Perfect Ten medals have also been sent to all RGBs except Victoria, from where no request has yet been received.

Many of the FITA Target Awards were also posted yesterday. I had no idea how many FTAs would be needed and under-catered so have had to order more from FITA. As soon as they arrive they will be forwarded to the RGBs who are still short of them.

National Championship Record certificates will be in the mail this week for the 34 National Championship records set during the event.

If in about a month you have not received an award that you think you are entitled to please check with your RGB Recorder, or PM me. :)

Clare
Indoor Organising Committee member
AA Recorder

[PeterBennett]

Thats awesome, well done Clare
Thanks for the hard work
Peter

[Brumbies Country]

Thats awesome, well done Clare
Thanks for the hard work
Peter

I second Peter's comments re Clare's tremendous efforts re this and the other numerous awards re outdoor National Championships and records.

I'd like to thank Anthony James and the Weston Creek Archery Club for running a really great event in the ACT re the Canberra version of the Indoor nats. Some of us didn't shoot as well as we'd like and we need to improve next time but the conditions were really good.

People like Peter Bennett and Merv Grinstead and Twin Cities deserve a mention. If they ran the Vic indoors like they did the conventional Nats, then they would have left no stone unturned.

For mine this was a really successful event;how could you argue otherwise?

[Brocky]

Firstly Merv. Grinstead did I say you where a KW. I hate to disappointed you but there are other members that have contributed to this thread from other countries outside Twin City Archers. OH yeah by the way if you check out the thread they where involved way before you where even thought of.

Mr Grinstead you may have been here longer than I but at least I refer to myself as an FULL BLOODED PROUD AUSI and not a Pom just visiting believing that I am an Ausi.

[frommy]

:sleeping:

[Brocky]

I didnt realise that you where a pom calling yourself and Ausi Frommy although it makes sense it is pass your bed time.

[rabbitz]

At the outset I must admit I am not an AA member, nor do I shoot the disiplines in question.

I have spent many years (about 25) involved with administration of sports clubs and with state organisations. I think that the organisers of this event should be congratulated. At the very least they have tried some innovation. It gets very frustrating when State & National bodies use the line "We have done it this way for 100 years so we will continue to do it this way" even in the face of falling attendances & memberships.

As times change prize meeting formats have to eveolve to keep people interested and competing.

Just my $0.02

Rabbitz
(aka Colin Warren Captain Manly SBRC)

[Jesse Pearman aka Woody]

I have no beef with the 2007 Nationals in Perth, the point I was making was that one of the reasons I was given for putting on the Indoor Nationals as a postal shoot was that people would not travel to the event. I go back to my original statement that if you want to compete in a National event, you should be prepared to travel to it.

I regret that some of you have had to resort to personal attacks on myself when I have only been exercising my right to comment about a concept I regard as misguided. I ask you again to reread my original letter and give me factual evidence that I am incorrect.

I also thank Marcus for demonstrating his lack of ethics as administrator of this site, and put his vigourous defence of this event down to his sense of perceived ownership.

I note that apart from Steve Butcher, the requests for my name come from people that havn't given theirs.

Well Ken Raye, its looks like your going to have fun making friends on the forum, let alone the archery community of Australia :)

[c3]

All I have read from people on this site is a lot of pathetic name calling. Is there anyone out there that can actually dispute the facts that I have laid out?

Yes they have. There's no statistical difference between venues for indoor shooting. As far as I know there's no rules against going to another venue to shoot if you so desire.

We have the exact same system here in the US for our Indoor Nationals. A 595 compound or 590 recurve FITA is going to win no matter how you split it up.

If you don't like the number of arrows per day or the lighting go to one of the other clubs and shoot it there. You have exactly zero excuse for where you happen to end up other than your ability to use your home court advantage.

I personally think it's one of the funnest formats you can have. Where else can you get 600 or more archers competing for the same prizes? It's the most elegant solution for indoor shooting there is.

Here in east BF nowhere Utah, we have Reo Wilde and family, Tim Gillingham, Michael Braden, George Rhyls, Jay Barrs, GT and many other who are right there at the highest level. How could anyone say that is not fair because Dave Cousins, Butch Johnson and Braden G shot in another location they prefered? A 10 is still a 10 on the fita face no matter where you go.

I think you've missed the point of the whole concept to begin with.

Cheers,
Pete

[Cartz]

Competitor ---->

http://www.birkoph.com/owned/owned_help.jpg

[Merv. Grinstead]

Firstly Merv. Grinstead did I say you where a KW. I hate to disappointed you but there are other members that have contributed to this thread from other countries outside Twin City Archers. OH yeah by the way if you check out the thread they where involved way before you where even thought of.

Mr Grinstead you may have been here longer than I but at least I refer to myself as an FULL BLOODED PROUD AUSI and not a Pom just visiting believing that I am an Ausi.
Brocky
Firstly you need a lesson in lesson the word disappointed was incorrectly used it should have been disappoint. You then claim to be a FULL BLOODED PROUD AUSI WRONG firstly if you cant spell it you cant be one the word is AUSSIE see even I a pom can spell the word,and as for full blooded
ao they are the indegenious people here before white man came which means that somewhere in your past your ancestors came from overseas.oh oh we could be 2nd cousins 5 times removed nah dont think so as for being a pom just visiting so where you ancestors

Cheers merv

[OldDog]

Brocky
Firstly you need a lesson in lesson the word disappointed was incorrectly used it should have been disappoint. You then claim to be a FULL BLOODED PROUD AUSI WRONG firstly if you cant spell it you cant be one the word is AUSSIE see even I a pom can spell the word,and as for full blooded
ao they are the indegenious people here before white man came which means that somewhere in your past your ancestors came from overseas.oh oh we could be 2nd cousins 5 times removed nah dont think so as for being a pom just visiting so where you ancestors

Cheers merv
Dont you mean so "were" your ancestors you pommy twit.:p

[Archangel]

Merv: People who live in glass houses...

[Clout Master]

It's the age old story of what came first ,,The chicken or the egg ??



Pom's should'nt come to Aussie as thats where all the convicts are, and




Aussie's should'nt go to Pommy land as thats where all the convicts come from!!!!!!!!!!


Being a Kiwi I'm in the middle....................

[Betty-Anne]

[QUOTE=Clout Master]It's the age old story of what came first ,,The chicken or the egg ??

A chicken and an egg were lying in bed together. The chicken was smoking and looking VERY relaxed. The egg was looking very tense and grumpy. So I guess that answers the age old question :)

[shannonhearse]

The chicken evolved to the point it could lay an egg.

hence, the chicken was first.

[Marcus]

Nope.
Evolution works that
A chicken was always laid from a chicken egg
However a chicken did not have to lay that egg
Thus the egg came before the chicken.

[OldDog]

Could we have that in english please Marcus.:confused:

[StevenB]

you're all forgetting, there is no spoon

[OldDog]

The one leg is both the same.:rolleyes:

[StevenB]

are but in the land of the blind, the one legged man is king

[OldDog]

Till the arse kickin competion starts. Hes screwed then.:o

[dbjac]

Nope.
Evolution works that
A chicken was always laid from a chicken egg
However a chicken did not have to lay that egg
Thus the egg came before the chicken.

Yep, got it in one.
Evolution progressively developed the chicken, however, the "egg" was used by many other animals i.e. fish/amphibians/reptiles before birds even existed. ;)

[James Park]

I sort of figure it out like this:
God said "Let there be two chickens, a male and a female". Then they could lays eggs, and so on. This works for me.
If, however, God said "Let there be two eggs, one that could become a male and the other a female". This does not work for me because there would not have been any pre-existing chickens to sit on the eggs to hatch them, so there would be no chickens.

[Archangel]

Edit: The post I was replying to has vanished, to everyone's great relief :-)

[OldDog]

I sort of figure it out like this:
God said "Let there be two chickens, a male and a female". Then they could lays eggs, and so on. This works for me.
If, however, God said "Let there be two eggs, one that could become a male and the other a female". This does not work for me because there would not have been any pre-existing chickens to sit on the eggs to hatch them, so there would be no chickens.
God may have also said...Let there be an incubator.:D

[Friar Tuck]

Personally I think God sat up there and said "Mmmmmmm how can I wreck their day :confused: I KNOW the Chickens and egg thing - this will keep them going for years... :D

[hoyt for life 2]

Alot like those mega hard sudoku's

[Clare Barnes]

What is God? :-?

[Archangel]

What is God? :-?
That big beard in the sky in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
For any poor soul not fortunate enough to have seen it, this (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/God) might explain it a little :-D

[Feathers]

How could this National Title be anything but a National Mail Match, next thing National Target held in all States on whatever weekend you want. Great

[2Dogs]

:rolleyes:

Dr Rad

[OldDog]

How could this National Title be anything but a National Mail Match, next thing National Target held in all States on whatever weekend you want. Great
:rolleyes:
:wank:

[Eberbachl]

C'mon guys...all this talk about Chickens or eggs....

Everyone knows that:


In the world before Monkey, primal chaos reigned. Heaven sought order, but the phoenix can fly only when it's feathers are grown. The four worlds formed again and yet again, as endless aeons wheeled and passed. Time and the pure essences of Heaven all worked upon a certain rock, old as creation. It became magically fertile. The first egg was named "Thought". Tathagata Buddha, the Father Buddha said "With our thoughts, we make the world". Elemental forces caused the egg to hatch. From it came a stone monkey.

;)

...that settles it!

:D

[OldDog]

Yeah.....Well ya know what thought did dontcha:rolleyes:

[Eberbachl]

Yeah.....Well ya know what thought did dontcha:rolleyes:

Of course...

...Thought escorted Tripitaka to the Temple of the Thunderclap to fetch the holy scriptures!

[OldDog]

NUP....Thought planted a feather and thought he'd grow a chicken.:o

[Marcus]

Of course...

...Thought escorted Tripitaka to the Temple of the Thunderclap to fetch the holy scriptures!
And that is where Thought gave Tripitaka the mighty Thunderclap and Tripitaka was not happy as antibiotics had not been invented yet.

[2Dogs]

Did somebody call for a "Piggsy" :D

http://www.monkeymania.co.uk/monkeymagic/img/pigsy10075.jpg

[rinaldo]

What came first the chicken or the egg? My partner thinks its quite obvious that its none of the above, its always the rooster.

[Merv. Grinstead]

Dont you mean so "were" your ancestors you pommy twit.:p
You are correct old dog I appologise for the incorrect spelling of were.
You Aussie Git

[OldDog]

You are correct old dog I appologise for the incorrect spelling of were.
You Aussie Git
I resemble that remark.:p

[Betty-Anne]

I used to love Monkey. I'm going to the video store right now to hire it :)

[Clout Master]

I used to love Monkey. I'm going to the video store right now to hire it :)


What are you going to do with a monkey ?????????????????????????

[Betty-Anne]

Can't say. There may be children lurking :)

[katzgrin]

What are you going to do with a monkey ?????????????????????????

Whatever you think is apepropriate. :wink:

[katzgrin]

But remember, a wise monkey doesn't monkey with another monkey's monkey.