Bad Run Foor PSE

[Colin]

Hot on the of the Two PSE bows that broke at the state Fita on sunday,we had Two more break at the club on tuesday night while shooting indoor.

I think there could be a shortage of spare parts in OZ if they keep going like this.

[Marcus]

Where did they break?
Personally I've had 2 sets of PSE limbs break and my Dad has had at least one set break.
Every bow company has problems, but that limb design they are using on the Thunderbolt and Stingray is just utter rubbish!!

Most bow companies do something about it, but for some reason PSE is continuing ahead with that particular design. It was a problem on the first series Mach 5 in 92-93 and is still a problem today. Some of their bows don't use em, like the Quantum, Mach 11 V5 and Silhouette. The Mach 11 Single Cam does however.

I guess that the thing is that they are cheap. $220 to buy a set new. That's about $100 US, - markups say $50 US. That's about $25 US per limb I would guess it costs PSE to make.

[foo]

wow. Are compound limbs usually so cheap? You'd be pushing to find a set of plain glass recurve limbs at that price!

[greglander]

generally recurve limbs are dearer anyway, maybe because not as many are made but i know of a set of recurve limbs that broke at twin cities fita shoot, guess what brand they were! see a bit of a pattern emerging? :rolleyes ;)

[Marcus]

Hey check out his thread on PSe's site. Someone had a Mach 10 break and PSE's answer is to rubbish Matthews.

http://forums.pse-archery.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=20326&t=8822#post20326

[Marcus]

2 more PSE Magnaglass limbs went at our club in the last week or so on the same bow. Almost tempted to run a talley of broken PSE Magnaglass limbs this year.

PSE Magnaglass: 6
PSE Quantum limbs: 0
Mathews: 1
Hoyt XT Split limbs: 0

Looks to me if you want a PSE buy one without those limbs. Mach 11 V5, Quantum, Nitro, Silhouette.

[James Park]

Pretty much all manufacturers get breakages. In my experience, some of these are due to design faults (for example: internal sharp corners which act as stress concentrators, as was the case in one model of recurve bow a few years ago).
In many other cases, I think we are shooting arrows that are too light. Quite a lot of the stored energy of the bow does not make it into the arrow, and this energy can quite readily destroy a bow. For example, the "virtual mass" of a typical compound bow is around 7 grams. If we then use an arrow of about 21 grams (or about 330 grains), we get only about 75% of the energy getting to the arrow, and the other 25% trying to destroy the bow.
This is particularly a problem where you have an archer using a heavy draw weight and a long draw length, together with high energy wheels (such as cams). In this case the stored energy can be very substantial. Hence, in my opinion, it is not surprising that we see failures, and the real issue is when it does happen, does our dealer look after us (a very substantial problem if you bought your bow over the Internet).
I am now usually shooting quite heavy arrows of around 350 grains (X10's), and as well as getting me reduced wind drift it is much more gentle on the bow than if I were to shoot 300 grain (or less) ACE's.
I agree with Luke's comments elsewhere that light arrows are an advantage for field, and I certainly do use ligher arrows in that case, but realise that I then putting my bow at greater risk (and put up with it). However, I very much limit my use of light arrows to only important competitions. When I am practicing field I generally use much heavier arrows to save my bow and its fittings (and it also makes me put more effort inton gauging, which is good).

[Marcus]

While those points are correct there is a large amount of breakages with the PSE magnaglass limbs. This limb design was a problem with the original Mach 5 and yet PSE has persisted with them. Most bow makers beef up problem risers etc, yet PSE still sell these junky limbs. Some people never have a problem with them and shoot thousands of arrows through them. Others shoot hundreds and have them break.
While replacements have not been an issue, Alan has been very quick replacing limbs, it's still a problem.
I hate the fact that you can buy a $1950 Mach 11 and get the same limbs as on a $600 Spyder.

[Colin]

We are still Wating!

[Marcus]

What bows were they colin? Maybe it's who you know, not what you shoot.

[mike]

Definitely not a good show for the stingray/thunderbolt etc limbs, and I think recent events are a perfectly good reason not to buy a bow with those limbs.

The reality for most of us is that we pay a huge amount of money for one of these bows and we cannot afford to replace them every year or two.

So we rely on the manufacturers to make a good product and for dealers etc to give us good advice so that we make a good investment.

I feel sorry for the people who have made the decision to buy a competition bow and have ended up with one of these bows, because you might be able to claim on warranty, but you'll end up with the same limbs...

Take a look along the line and talk to people who have had their bow for a long time without failure etc. Look at the recent failures and a pretty conclusive pattern emerges. That is not a very scientific approach I know, but, you can only go on what you see and have heared and there is absolutely no way that I would fork out $1500 or something on a product that I know I will probably NEED the warranty for!

I have No warranty on my bow (I bought it 2nd hand)and it is fine (touch wood) I have had to replace the cables through frequent use and replace the cable guard but that is all. Also, the limbs on my bow are not known around the traps for frequent failures.

The saying goes something like this I think: if it smells like ****, looks like **** etc then you are probably dealing with ****..... :D

[Bruce]

Whilst I agree with Jims maths on arrow mass vs vibration. I have shot hoyts for years with ace arrows weighing in at just over 300gn, 30 inch arrow and over 63# and touch wood never had a limb failure . I trust my hoyt bows and will have to be dragged kicking and screaming to shoot anything else . I own 3 different hoyt compounds at present with varying limb configs and have complete faith in all of them

[Toxophilite]

Perhaps someone could start up a new PSE dealership..."Bows 'n' Bits 'n' Pieces" :p

[mike]

Priced So Expensively

Poor Shooting Equipment

Pretty **** Equipment (thats an oldie but a goodie!!!)

perhaps more appropriately

PARTS SNAP EASILY


No, this is a bit harsh. It is only one limb type on several bows that are the problem. Get one with the Quantum limbs and there shouldn't be a problem, fingers crossed.

:confused

[Marcus]

Hey, PSE make some good stuff! (shh, don't tell BAB I said that ;) )

Out of their current catalog the Nitro, Quantum and Mach 11 V5 would be their best bows.

However why is the Mach 11 with single cam $1950? PSE's big problem is their stuff is far too expensive. The top of the range Hoyt is about $1500. Don't break either!

But I would shoot a PSE again.

[Marcus]

We just had another Nova go at our club according to a club member. Havn't seen it, but it was at the limb tips again.

PSE Magnaglass: 10
PSE Quantum limbs: 0
Mathews: 1
Hoyt XT Split limbs: 0

If anyone else knows of any breakages let me know, we'll add to our 2002 tally.

[Kuru]

I'm assuming all these were replaced under warranty ? Could be a bad batch of limbs. Would be interested to know if PSE's quality assurance dept knows about this. Also would like to know what arrows were shot out of these bows, I'm not defending them, yes I shoot a PSE but I had to pay for it ! Just wouldn't expect a company like PSE to make these sort of mistakes

[Marcus]

I know that at least 2 sets were shot with heavy carbons. PSE is well aware of it and there has been ALOT of discussion on the PSE board about it. It's not isolated, I went through 2 sets of recurve Magnaglass limbs in the Geelong Jnr Nationals during the field on my Mach 5 (at the time a $2000 bow). I've seen them break on single cam and dual cam, on 45# bows and 65# bows, on bows shooting Alloys and bows shooting carbons. They are replaced, but it's something that shouldn't happen. It doesn't happen with their Quantum limbs or with the limbs on your bow.

[Colin]

we have been wating since February. Still no replacements :x

[REIDY]

Hi,

First go at this forum, never knew so much existed.

Better add another score to the PSE tally. I noticed cracks in the upper and lower limbs of my stingray at the Short Range at Moorrabbin in March and some 11 weeks later I am still waiting for replacements. I am not sure whether the delay is with PSE directly or with their Agents here. This bow was only purchased in October last year.

The advice I received was to kep shooting it, but the cracks now penetrate well into the limb and not just the top plate where the limb seperates. What is likely to happen if I keep shooting it? How and who do I hassle to get the replacements? Does anyone who has had this problem have any solution or should I contact PSE directly by phone for some answers?

[Kuru]

Welcome to the forum ! :) Sorry to hear you have problems. I suggest you go to www.pse-archery.com and email them, let them know whats going on
you shouldn't have to ring os as a consumer and I'd suggest you hassle the shop where you got it from, i'm assuming the nock shop ? Keep nagging them about it on a weekly basis and they'll get fed up and might do something. It's annoying that thats the sort of thing we have to do to get a bit of service but sadly thats what archery shops are like here. Maybe worth a call to John Dabovitch at archery academy. don't know if he's still the main dealer of pse but he used to be years ago and may be able to help you out. either way keep riding the shop and I personally wouldn't keep shooting the bow, if something happens the shop where you got it from might just turn around and say get stuffed you shot a bow with a problem we're not going to warrant the bow. Just be careful and let us know how things work out

[Marcus]

Who on earth told you to keep shooting the bow? I hope you can hold them liable if it breaks and injures you. I certainly would stop shooting it if the cracks are getting worse. Gareth has made some good recommendations there. Let us know how you go. That's 12 and counting.
Colin has those YV guys gotten their replacements yet?

[Colin]

No, at this stage still no replacments. :x
W :) elcome aboard peter. :)

[Marcus]

Marcel lost another Magnaglass limb today.
Brad Orr lost a Hoyt Redline solid limb today.

PSE Magnaglass: 17
PSE Quantum limbs: 0
Mathews: 1
Hoyt XT Split limbs: 0
Hoyt Solid limbs: 1

[Eberbachl]

Hey guys,

I was actually discussing this issue with Alan at Maverick Archery the other day. He too (no kidding) is well aware of this limb problem, and he said (as close as I can remember) "as long as they (the magnaglass limbs) keep breaking, I'll keep replacing them" and the thing he suggested, was that all bow companies have their problems from time to time, but PSE provide great service to the customers this happens to.

......a couple of things to consider:

a: If this problem has existed for so long, why hasen't PSE either fixed it, or discontinued this limb?
b: I'd be interested to see how long it takes to replace the limb on Marcel's Stingray as an exercise in PSE turnaround. One day and counting.....
c: I can't comment on the waiting issue for this problem to be resolved, as I don't know if the wait comes from our end, or their end. One would have thought that PSE would have plenty of stock of this limb by now :roll:

PS....and add another to the list, one of our guys (Jason Thompson) with a Nova at DVA had a limb crack a while ago before he bought his Quantum. Although it happened a while ago, I'm sure it was a 2002 crack, and it isn't on the tally yet. Fortunately, Maverick Archery had another Nova with the same specs in stock, so the limb was replaced more or less immediately. I guess that's one advantage of having the most common bow in PSE's line-up... :)

[Marcus]

No Jason's limbs are in the tally.

Absolutly that all bow companies have problems with their limbs. I will also point out that this is no way equals poor shootability or poor service from PSE. Those who know me well know I like PSE bows. Top notch gear (some of it)
But
What this thread illustrates is that there are PSE's worth buying and ones worth avoiding. I will always be bitter with this style of limb as PSE had a great graphite limb that they dumps for this model. I had 2 sets break at the Nationals. Cost me a place, possibly gold in field. At the time I couldn't have cared less what time they took to fix, they cost me points I needed. When limbs go it costs you points, time and practise while they are replaced. What's more there is a safety issue involved.
All limbs break, but these are making a habit of it, what's more people in the US are reporting they are on their 6th set.

On another note, I don't think these are suited well to the Stingray. I was looking at the flex in the limbs at full draw and they were excessive for that limb. While on Jim's Xcellerator the limbs looked better suited to it, I doubt Jim's limbs will fail in the same way.

[Colin]

I would think that it is about time that these limbs were RECALLED.
What will happen if they break while sombody is shooting them & a peice pokes an eye ouy or something like that?
PSE knows they are faulty so if it was me I would hold them responsible.

[2Dogs]

HEY EVERYONE!!!!!! MARCUS SAID PSE MAKE PRETTY GOOD STUFF :D :D

CC: BAB's


As we all know PSE = pretty ****ty equipment..............nuff said 8)

[marty]

Two points, The first is that PSE doesn't make recurve limbs. It's actually been a long time since they made recurve limbs. These days the limbs are made by Win and Win. Privious to W&W the limbs were made by Sky Archery (Earl Hoyt's company after he left Hoyt).

Secondly, another datapoint. Someone had a month old Mach 11 single cam that had crachs in the cam cutout area. He is waiting for PSE to replace the limbs.

[Marcus]

Marty
The limbs on the Mach 11 single cam are Magnaglass limbs. You can buy a set for about $250 AU, or $125US. Pretty sad seeing as it's an almost $1000 bow.

Also just heard that Marilyn Taylor has cracked the limbs in her Mach 11 V5 after having it for about 3 months. This is a week away from the World Masters and she had been shooting exceptionally well, what a bad time to loose your limbs. :(

PSE Magnaglass: 17
PSE Quantum limbs: 0
PSE Mach 11 V5 limbs: 1
Mathews: 1
Hoyt XT Split limbs: 0
Hoyt Solid limbs: 1
High Country Split Limbs: 0
Champion Limbs: 0

I think that's a good point Colin, they are a safety hazard. Marcel stopped shooting his because if they break at the wrong time that arrow could've hit spectators.

[OldDog]

Marcus why all of a sudden is there a rash of broken magnaglass limbs, for years they were respected as a robust piece of equipment now we have untold amount of them breaking, has there been a design change in recent times or because we saw so few of them up here we havent experienced the problem.

[Marcus]

I think there are a couple of factors

First up is that the problem shows up alot on single cam models. The non even force and whip that the single cams deliver on the limbs is causing hell on the Magnaglass limbs.
Secondly are the angles. The Stingray for example puts the limbs on an almost parallel level at full draw, this is most likely too much for the limb to handle, and thus breaking.

A little history too. When PSE released this limb it was their budget limb. This was back in around 1989-1990. Their top end bows used wood or crabon laminated limbs. Slowly they started moving towards the Magnaglass limbs which are a moulded fibreglass. The Mach 5 was their first top end bow to get the limbs, and it showed. Many lost multiple sets of limbs from their Mach 5s. It was also a $2000 bow.
The problem has existed for years, but is getting worse as bows get more radical.

[OldDog]

Marcus it is my understanding that limbs on single cam bows work equally, could it be as you say that in their effort to keep up with bow performance that they have not designed a limb to keep pace with their more radical riser and cam designs.

[Marcus]

The limbs o work equally, however their is more weight on he bottom limb being thown around on release. I believe that makes a difference.
However I agree that PSE has not taken into account the effects on limbs that new riser designs have. I have heard that the problem in in mainly the single cam bows, but not exclusivly.

It's not a slight on single cam, as the Nitro, Quantum and Xcellerator work fine.

[OldDog]

Never took it as a slight, just trying to understand why a problem has suddenly arisen with a product that I always thought was pretty good.