Beginners

[Marcus]

Hey
How does everyone deal with beginners at your club?
We have a beginners course that we sign em up to. The go for 4 weeks and thus we tend to put about 20 through each time. It's a real lot of work for those running them. There has to be a better way. What do you all do?

[StevenB]

At warringah archers they run a beginners course run over 6 weeks(last time I checked it was), that at most sees only about 4 people per group.

The big way we take beginners is through our ajad/ozbow program. The program was first started to bring juniors into the club and develope their skills. But over the years adults have been alowed into the program aswell as most parents want to shoot with their kids.

they start at one end of the field and work along the shooting range as they progress. There are a few coaches to help along the way and they spend their first couple of weeks with a coach. The further up the line they get there is less coaching provided as the more senior shooters can provide some help and this would be the point where they would benefit from one on one coaching.

[mr_flibble]

At Melville we run an OzBow, but we dont run courses over a certain number of weeks. We coach beginners from 10-12am saturday mornings, members shoot in the afternoon.
As beginners turn up they are then tought how to shoot and progress at their own rate. They start off at a short distance and progress out to as far as 40m, until they are ready to join the club. Every week we have two regular coaches who teach begginners and organise, aswell as three rostered club members each week who are asked to turn up and help out. Adults and juniors shoot together.
We have as though this works well, as beginners can shoot for as many weeks as they want while they decide if they want to join, and the club also makes a bit of money. Attendance can be as high as 40 people some weeks.
The only problem is when the club members that are rostered dont turn up, then things are a bit hard.

[Flex]

Sorry Marcus,

But I think the way DVA do it is great. I don't think there is an EASY way
to teach ppl properly.If you bring in a roster you would find ppl don't show
or show but don't want to teach.If I ever get good enough I would teach ppl sometimes but wouldn't want to do it all the time.

I'am 3 weeks into the course now and will join up :D But I don't know how many others will.

[CMB50]

Flex, good to hear you're enjoying the begginers course and are keen to join up.
I completed the beginners course 3 months ago at DVA and believe me when i tell you that there is no end to the number of people willing to help you if you ask them.
I'm shooting reasonably well now and a lot of it has to do with the advice and help from people at the club.

Hope to see you shooting there again soon. :D

[stodrette]

Tell me more....

Sounds like something they should do over here but don't :(

Our clubs set up and have a shoot once a month, but nothing to help a beginner!... And heaven help the person that decides they want to learn how to shoot in my area!! We have no indoor ranges, and only one outdoor club range within 50 miles....

I like the cooperative effort you all are using!

[recurve boy]

Our club has no shortage of beginners. We keep classes relatively small and relatively short. There's only 2 weeks of real lessons. That's all you really need. After that beginners are encouraged to seek help from more experienced shooters to fine tune their form. We're also encouraged to help them out where we can.

Stodrette I think brings up a more pressing problem:


We have no indoor ranges, and only one outdoor club range within 50 miles....

Lack of facilities. Lots of beginners but after the course we don't have the facilities to keep them around ...

[Marcus]

DVA gets about 20 per course. We have an indoor range with evap cooling, outdoor range, 3D, ABA and FITA fields yet we get a retention rate of about 2 per class we run.

Strodette
Best way is to provide shooting aimed at that level. We run a league that is indoor and also outdoor with a handicap system aimed at short range shooting. We let juniors shoot closer as well. We sometimes run seminars and coaching sessions and have a handful of members prepared to lend a hand. Sounds like you guys need more clubs though.

[recurve boy]

At our club we've had 4 beginners stay on as regulars in the last 3 years. There are more that come regularly for a year or so and then disappear. But the core of our club always v.small.

We get more than 200 beginners a year. Thats a 0.007% retention rate. A 0.1% retention rate is good in my book. Especially when you consider that most people who try archery just want to get a feel of what it's like.

[CMB50]

One of the problems i have noticed is that once the beginners course is finished, there is a large outlay of cash required to buy equipment to continue shooting. A lot of people don't have that kind of money. I know that if i hadn't have had loans of equipment from people i knew already shooting that i could not afford the cost of buying equipment.
One possibility that i think clubs should try, is to open the clubs up to the public on weekends. i.e- let people come down and shoot a bow and some arrows that the club owns. Charge say $10 - $15 for a day of shooting and let people continue shooting without having to immediatly purchase equipment.
I think the advantage of this lies in the fact that people can continue to enjoy their archery and will eventually WANT to purchase their own equipment to help improve their scores and so they can shoot at home (if they have the facilities) rather than having to wait for a saturday or sunday to do so.

[Flex]

Something that would be handy for beginers is somekind of Archery Basics
book charge $5 or so for it.
I find that I have spent heaps of time trying to find stuff out.After all you can only ask so many dumb questions:)

With equipment there must be heaps of secondhand bows around as ppl seem to change them pretty often.Maybe if ppl brought in there unused bows at the end of courses that would help out the beginers and the ppl hanging onto bows they no longer use.

[frommy]

Interesting topic. Retention rates might be appropriate of a separate topic in itself.

We are a small club but run the formal ASNSW/AA approved introduction training, as seems similar to you Marcus. 8 hours or so in the hands of coaches. Our main diference is that we run very small groups of no more that 4 people at a time per coach, depending on equipment demand.

I leave it to the coaches to work out their demands on time, and organisation of the courses. Sometimes we go 4x2 hours, sometimes 2x4 hours, or other alternatives, depending on the capability of the entrants. The coaches rotate when demand is slow, so no rosters.

One of the greatest things I have found about this sport is the willingness of archers to assist people who need it, and after formal introduction this is certainly the case in our club for people genuinly interested in archery.

Flex, you are on the net. There is a vast majority of material out there from the Sagittarius site, through Balbardy, even the AA site. The site addresses are far too many to show here, but you would be amazed what you can find with a search. Archers reference is also a good starting site.

re second hand equipment, there must be heaps of it around Sydney. All of our 13 club training bows were stolen late last year, Liverpool had previously suffered a similar fate, and Blacktown have had several thefts.

Mongrels.

Brian

[Marcus]

Flex
Look no further than Mastering COmpound Bows in our Shop link at the top of this page. Locally writen and excellent book. Used by AA as a coaching manual.

[recurve boy]

Well our club has no shortage of bows for loan, though getting a bow to yourself is perhaps a bit difficult - it may still be used for beginner courses but these courses are held outside regular shooting times . But we're always getting more. We even have 3 Hoyt GMs that are club equipment.

* We did this since we felt that some beginners may be a little imtimidated by the regulars. Some take club practices a bit seriously I guess, doesn't encourage beginners to approach us and ask questions and for some of us club time was the only shooting we got in so we may have been reluctant to help out. We're still around during the beginner classes but more for socializing and as models to demo good form *cough*. everythin is better now but still bad retention.

[Flex]

thanks Marcus,

more money to spend :-? It looks to have more info than I was looking for
mmm I thought I needed anyway.

[recurve boy]

Has any one had to deal with disabled archers?

[frommy]

Have a look at the web site www.archerynsw.com which has some information. The webmaster is Tony Marturano who was a member of the paralympic Ozzie team.

Brian

[robbo]

We had an archer in a wheel chair. He used a 4 wheel motorbike to get around our course(ABA).

Our course is flat and so is pretty easy to get around on the bike, he just shot off the bike. Pretty good archer too, He had our course record for a while.

[recurve boy]

Yeah, I know Tony. I bought my Elan off him :)

The page doesn't really tell you much about how to coach disabled beginners though.

My temp club I'm shooting at now has some guys in wheel chairs and even a few blind guys (rather impressive too). The beginner coach went to the trouble of spending time in a wheel chair and even shooting blind folded to get a feel of what their situations are like.

So if someone in a wheel chair wants to join the club what do I say? Have a spare wheel chair I can borrow for a week?

[Marcus]

I was coaching a cerabal pausie (I can't spell it) kid in a wheel chair for a while. Basically I just keep an eye out for clearence on the chair, make sure they can sit upright with ease etc. Ron Rowe of Ron's Rods coached Disabled basketball and would be able to give you the best advise.
I stopped coaching this kid because he refuses to try anything I ask hm to do, which is my requirement, disabled or not, to get my coaching. (harsh I know, but I have better things to do)
Ron would be more help, his user name here is ronr

[rip it]

Up here at our club in hervey bay we have had three disabled beginners in two courses two of which are investigating joining the club one which brought some second gear off me on the weekend.

In relation as to how to act at our club we have qualified coaches who are made aware of the conditions that they have and if the is any compromise in the basic technique that we teach them and treat them as if there is no different if they don't listen or are unsafe on the line they would be asked to leave.

We haven't had a problem with this policy yet.

Note: Our beginner courses run for 4 weeks from 10am the noon every saturday morning

week one roughly 15 min safety 5 min BASIC technique then get them shooting

Week two three Coaches teach them more refining of there techniques as they become proficent in the basic technique

week four shoot for 30 to an hour the shoot a 5 target 3d round.

I have observed that the more informal without becoming unsafe a course is the fun you have hence the more people want to come back and join the club.

The apnoshere ( can't spell ) of the club is such that if you need a hand with anything everyone feels okay with asking for help as our club is relatively small the coaches are often also the ones next to you on the line come saturday afternoon joking and kidding around with you from the start.

If you need anymore in depth help the senior members of the club will often meet with you personally on a saturday morning.

The trick is to ask and most people will give you a hand when they can.
In short Keep it fun and simple

[Wootbird]

its not 6 weeks at warringah archers it 4 :roll:

[StevenB]

its not 6 weeks at warringah archers it 4 :roll:



well clearly I haven't been a member for 3 years, but for the 8 I was 6 weeks

[Eberbachl]

its not 6 weeks at warringah archers it 4 :roll:

...way to resurrect a 3 year old thread dude :rofl:

[Larry]

Time to re- resurect!
To those that coach beginners, do you you initially teach sighted or barebow?

[longbowinfected]

The two qualified coaches in our club are barebowers.
We do teach bare basic double sided tape and pins as sights but only in the last week. We stick to the AA thing and use low power recurves. Most do not want to use sights. If any wish to use their own bow and sights we give them some extra attention with that gear to get them going after they learn the basics if the gear is appropriate and safe.
We basically try to do the abbreviated simpler "Come n try" format using the AA booklet but repeat it over 4 weeks = more shooting = more fun = no drop outs.
We run our course for 4 weeks 8:30 - 10 am before the members. If people cannot attend on any of the weeks we give them extra time by arrangement...pain in the butt but reduces hesitancy to participate.


It is important to make it as fun as possible = successful. We start them on box targets on the ground 5 metres away and we gradually move them back by 2-3 metres every couple of ends. We use 60cm faces and even balloons and 3D faces after starting them off with blank butts.

Low retension rates is the norm.....archery is time hungry on the average busy family. We got as low as 5 or 6 back up to 30 odd with a further 10 to join. Many of our members are unsupported kids so I fear we can be used as a lowly paid child minding centre...they get good value and looked after.

I reckon having an indoor or well lit outdoor are would increase numbers. Recently I have encouraged attending parents to have a go as well [signed up] towards the last couple of weeks and it grabs them...... last group are all entirely joining up.....6 kids and 4 adults even though we did not charge the adults.

We encourage beginners to hire gear for a while as temporary signed up archers and to really see if they like it.

As a national sport we really need to develop a national strategy and courses[ follow up/ staged courses about sights, maintenance, arrow building, stringmaking to keep it real and affordable for parents and newcomers].

We also need a lot more beginners tournaments like the one run by Warringah and others.
The new AA beginners coaching manual is a wonderful resource for beginners, coaches and archers learning the ropes.

Kevin

[DICER]

It's a ghost thread - twice up of the grave in 2006 and 2008 from 2003

[stickman]

longbowinfected: 6 kids and 4 adults even though we did not charge the adults.

That could be the way to go...pay for the kids (beginner course)and the parents get free lessons as well ...a sort of two for one offer.

[markjam51]

I reckon having an indoor or well lit outdoor are would increase numbers.

I agree. I don't know if this sport has a biblical dimension to it but I have recently observed that we have had, and a local professional archery provider Feral has had also, a large number of church groups attend come and try classes. In our case we run the come and try's on Saturday mornings so as it does not interfere with members participation in club events on Sunday. They then discover we shoot on Sundays and though keen to continue we never see them again - until we started shooting twilight on Wednesday. We contacted the last church group and some turned up, together with a number of other beginners and irregular attendees who simply have difficulty in fitting the sport in on Sundays. It's been a bit of a revelation - we get more people turning up on the Wednesday than we used to get on Sundays when I first joined.

Lighting is now becoming a priority for us so we can keep the Wednesday shoot going after daylight saving ends.

[Bottom Dweller]

Time to re- resurect!
To those that coach beginners, do you you initially teach sighted or barebow?

Well if you follow the very successful Korean method we should be teaching with nobow for the first year of the beginners course. Its safe, keeps club equipment cost very low, minimal wear on targets and faces :D

[Bottom Dweller]

Lighting is now becoming a priority for us so we can keep the Wednesday shoot going after daylight saving ends.

You'd better look after the church groups then, or your problem might be lightning rather than lighting :D

[Carl Murray]

Sighted recurve usually.

[DICER]

I agree. I don't know if this sport has a biblical dimension to it but I have recently observed that we have had, and a local professional archery provider Feral has had also, a large number of church groups attend come and try classes. In our case we run the come and try's on Saturday mornings so as it does not interfere with members participation in club events on Sunday. They then discover we shoot on Sundays and though keen to continue we never see them again - until we started shooting twilight on Wednesday. We contacted the last church group and some turned up, together with a number of other beginners and irregular attendees who simply have difficulty in fitting the sport in on Sundays. It's been a bit of a revelation - we get more people turning up on the Wednesday than we used to get on Sundays when I first joined.

Lighting is now becoming a priority for us so we can keep the Wednesday shoot going after daylight saving ends.

I guess then, that they have seen the light....