Apple/windows/linux

[alexvpaq]

What are you using in those 3?:confused: and why?
me personnaly I work on windows and I never got huge problem... sure with my older one it was crappy... but now it's good at doing what I'm asking it to do!

[Marcus]

Mac OS X for me, since day one.
As a web developer with servers it'sthe best system for me.
I get the ease orf the world's best GUI OS, plus I get the unix capabilities that it sits on.
At any time I can pull up a terminal window and run through Unix if I need to.
The reliablilty is excellent with my server never needing a restart (only some 6 year old third party software causes me grief)
I have PHP and MySQL working out of the box.
For work I have a Mac Mini with Intel core running Windows in a seperate window for my accounts.
So I have a machine that runs Unix, Mac OS and Windows all without rebooting and at full speed for around $1k. Beats buying 3 computers. ;)

[StevenB]

Beats buying 3 computers. ;)



but not as much fun.

Windows for me. I have the computer I bought in dec 2001 still running with no issues (I don't run them 24/7)


Just starting to learn linux at home and have been using unix and vms at work for the last 18 months. Mac OS I'll get around to at some point

[Marcus]

There is a third party hack now which allows you to run Mac OS X on a intel box. I think Eberbachl got one running for $400.

[Tamaillin]

Windows - PCs runnning M$ Operating systems have kept me employed for the past 2 decades. (wow - Just shocked myself, has it been that long.)

T

[Jean Lafitte]

Windows, for the sake of video games. If I actually did something important on my computer, it'd be something else.

[Archangel]

Linux, because it's free (in both senses of the word), and I have control over it - nobody tells me what to do with it.
And it has better compatibility with my hardware than Windows - bluetooth actually works, and my touchpad has a few neat extra features, like circular scrolling. Oh yeah, and I can actually install it on my desktop, unlike Windows, which has foiled my best efforts through nonexistent hardware support and an archaic installer.
Plus I get easy access to things like PHP and Apache - I could say "out of the box", except none of it was ever in a box ;-)

The others aren't really options as far as I'm concerned. Windows is a joke - it's completely incapable of doing things an operating system should, and is too good at doing things it shouldn't. OSX has grown on me a bit recently, but when I got my current desktop it outperformed all but the top-of-the-line Powermacs - and they would have cost about three times what this did. The Minis etc are nice enough, but I have been known to have a game every now and then, which they wouldn't keep up with.

[Jean Lafitte]

Oh yeah, and I can actually install it on my desktop, unlike Windows, which has foiled my best efforts through nonexistent hardware support and an archaic installer.

The average nine-year-old can install Windows, judging from the AOL userbase. What does that say about you?

For what it's worth though, they can apparently also install AOL, which I can never bring myself to do. Hats off to those brave folks.

[Archangel]

The average nine-year-old can install Windows, judging from the AOL userbase. What does that say about you?
You see, my machine has SATA hard drives, being fairly new, so Windows requires a 3rd party driver. So I dutifully stuck my disk in, which gets it past partitioning (it must be working to some degree, since it could read the extended partition and happily mutilates the MBR), but then it repeatedly asks me to insert the disk with the drivers on it when it tries to copy files - despite it being in the drive. I then wasted an hour or so getting new drivers and finding out how to slipstream them onto a Windows CD, which looked like it was going to work - until it bluescreens at boot.

So, genius, what would you have done differently?
Incidentally, the AOL kiddies can't install it - their machines come preinstalled.

I'm just not used to all this fuss, my Linux install "just worked out of the box" :-D

[alexvpaq]

:p LoL I never got any installation problem on my windows...
but on the other side with my older computer I woked myself one day almost hitting the screen cause it was just crap...
but now everything's fine so I am happy with it!:p

[Jean Lafitte]

So, genius, what would you have done differently?

Well duh,

Tell your wife that your work requires you to own a new computer. Then buy a new computer.

Incidentally, the AOL kiddies can't install it - their machines come preinstalled.

Most computers that aren't defective like yours require no effort to install Windows. I don't think you even need to fill out any fields if you don't want to; it's so routine that I don't even remember.

[Friar Tuck]

Windows because I can't be bothered adjusting between home and work on the notebook and my Wife has a relationship with Windows on her computer now and wouldn't learn anything else and my Daughter is very much like her Mum and plays games which Linux and Mac just can't run because they are Windows versions.

[Archangel]

Tell your wife that your work requires you to own a new computer. Then buy a new computer.
I don't have a wife, so I don't need to make excuses to her; it was buying a new computer in the first place that got me into this!

Most computers that aren't defective like yours require no effort to install Windows. I don't think you even need to fill out any fields if you don't want to; it's so routine that I don't even remember.
It may (or more likely may not) be 'defective', but hey, Linux worked just fine. So much for Windows' fabled hardware support :-P
Oh, and you do need to answer questions. Quite a few. At random times spaced throughout the 35-minute install. Including idiotic things like telling it your country, then changing the timezone when it picks one blatantly not in that country, and having to change the language from US "English" to proper English.

[StevenB]

There is a third party hack now which allows you to run Mac OS X on a intel box. I think Eberbachl got one running for $400.


need to get the right hardware for it though, intel.


all of the OSs have their benefits (and downfalls). Never had any problems with hardware support for win XP or 2000 (95/98 could be crap though), but I have stuck with brand name gear for the most part. Only had to install onto one SATA machine, just grabbed the spare floppy drive out of the cupboard. done.

red hat (fedora core 5), solaris and mandriva all installed easily onto the compaq hardware I've got.

[Mike13]

Changed to Mac (iBook 14) last year after running XP for years. Very happy with it. I was doing a multimedia design course and the Mac is good for that sort of crap.

[Jean Lafitte]

Oh, and you do need to answer questions. Quite a few. At random times spaced throughout the 35-minute install. Including idiotic things like telling it your country, then changing the timezone when it picks one blatantly not in that country, and having to change the language from US "English" to proper English.

Those I can do while reclined half way across the room, vision permitting.

[DavidA]

Did first Micro Courses in Australia (1975) and 1976
Have been doing Apple Mac support since 1984
Still have not found a better Machine
Have not seen a Virus in 7 years and no Malwear yet.

[Hannah]

I use windows - and guess what?! I don't feel a need to justify myself in any way shape or form ;)

[Eberbachl]

Mac OS X on my little G4 1.42Ghz mini :D

He RAWKS!

ATM I'm trying very very hard to stop myself from going down to the local Apple centre and dropping some dough on a New 13" Macbook.

:rofl:

[recurve boy]

need to get the right hardware for it though, intel.


all of the OSs have their benefits (and downfalls). Never had any problems with hardware support for win XP or 2000 (95/98 could be crap though), but I have stuck with brand name gear for the most part. Only had to install onto one SATA machine, just grabbed the spare floppy drive out of the cupboard. done.

red hat (fedora core 5), solaris and mandriva all installed easily onto the compaq hardware I've got.

Not quite correct. Tiger has been run on AMD systems. But it's a massive pain.

[Eberbachl]

Not quite correct. Tiger has been run on AMD systems. But it's a massive pain.

Very true...I ran it pretty nicely on a VIA chipset P4 machine...

A far cry from the Intel chipset developer box.

There is a whole host of configurations that work...check out the OS x86 project for huge HCL's

Of course, it's no replacement for a real Mac, and it's not all easy. It was fun to do though.

I liked Marcus' comment which went something like "running Mac OSx on a PC is like a going out on a date with a really ugly guy in a pretty dress"

:rofl:

[Juggs]

windows

cause even a 90 year old can open the box and be downloading porn in 30 minutes

[Eberbachl]

windows

cause even a 90 year old can open the box and be downloading porn in 30 minutes

...and popups, and malware, and spyware, and adware, and trojans, and viruses, and dialers, and...

:rofl:

[StevenB]

even with IE I haven't had any problems, but use firefox now cause I like tabbed browsing.

but maybe you have something there, Macs are excellent for surfing porn, thats why they are more fun than PCs.

as a side note, Sony's copy controlled discs are there to stop people with ipods ripping the music as they have an issue with itunes. Silly thing is it only stops itunes on PCs from ripping the discs (they aren't CD-DAs according to Phillips) but if you have a mac no problem to use itunes to rip it

[alexvpaq]

even with IE I haven't had any problems, but use firefox now cause I like tabbed browsing.

but maybe you have something there, Macs are excellent for surfing porn, thats why they are more fun than PCs.

as a side note, Sony's copy controlled discs are there to stop people with ipods ripping the music as they have an issue with itunes. Silly thing is it only stops itunes on PCs from ripping the discs (they aren't CD-DAs according to Phillips) but if you have a mac no problem to use itunes to rip it
:rofl: marcus... he found out your lil secret :rofl:

[Juggs]

...and popups, and malware, and spyware, and adware, and trojans, and viruses, and dialers, and...

:rofl:

once mac popularity (cough never gunna happen ) increases to take 50% share of microsoft im sure the same virus spyware issues will appear

its not code or hardware that stops them getting the amopunt of issues just the leet little script kiddies havnt paid attention to them

[Marcus]

no not quite.
I use to build Applescript applications and the Apple OS is very well protected against things that are deemed to be dangerous to the OS. You can not script things that will affect the core OS for example. This make virus writing very difficult. I tried a number of time to write such applications, and while I am hardly a star, it certainly wasn't an easy process.
Windows on teh other hand relies on scripting to do just about everything.

The last Mac virus was the Autostart 9805 worm (so called because it was discovered in May 1998) which was spread via CD. You had to have the ability for CD's to automatically play in order to spread the virus. Disable that feature and you were imune.

I promise you that there are enough Mac users out there that they are working on viruses for them. I have no doubt one will appear, however it would be foolish to thing that no one is trying.

[Archangel]

once mac popularity (cough never gunna happen ) increases to take 50% share of microsoft im sure the same virus spyware issues will appear

its not code or hardware that stops them getting the amopunt of issues just the leet little script kiddies havnt paid attention to them
That may be part of it - but the fact that Windows is fundamentally very insecurely designed is a much bigger cause of their problem. Basically every Windows user runs as an administrator - you have to for many programs to work at all, and there's no convenient means to temporarily gain privileges when you need them. This means that any virus that compromises your web browser automatically gets full access to the entire system - on Mac or Linux (or BSD or basically anything but Windows) this is not the case.
Windows also has some potentially pretty dodgy things like RPC running by default that allowed Blaster to do it's thing; a worm like that is massively less likely on other platforms.

The 'leet little script kiddies' don't have anything like as much to do with it as Microsoft would like you to believe.

[Eberbachl]

That may be part of it - but the fact that Windows is fundamentally very insecurely designed is a much bigger cause of their problem. Basically every Windows user runs as an administrator - you have to for many programs to work at all, and there's no convenient means to temporarily gain privileges when you need them. This means that any virus that compromises your web browser automatically gets full access to the entire system - on Mac or Linux (or BSD or basically anything but Windows) this is not the case.
Windows also has some potentially pretty dodgy things like RPC running by default that allowed Blaster to do it's thing; a worm like that is massively less likely on other platforms.

The 'leet little script kiddies' don't have anything like as much to do with it as Microsoft would like you to believe.


Whilst I do love my Mac...the above post isn't completely true...

It is true that under Windows XP, the first user created after installing the OS is an administrator and this leads to most users logging on day to day as an administrator (which is of course very bad practice), but not all Windows Users are administrators (or have to be)...and it's very easy to temporarily get administrative access when required.

It's called right click/run as..., or in some cases it's [shift+rightclick]/run as...

;)

[Robin Dud]

Mac OS Tiger!! . I used to use windows back in the dark ages. I had to use Mac for my job and changed over kicking and screaming against it, but it took only 2 hours of training and have never looked back. A much easier and user friendly system than Windows. I now have an office using G5 duals and have just got a Mac Powerbook and yes I also run Windows on it for some minor programs that will not run on Mac. You can get "Boot Camp" which is the software needed to host windows XP from Apple, its only in Beta form buts runs really well, not like Virtual PC.

[recurve boy]

once mac popularity (cough never gunna happen ) increases to take 50% share of microsoft im sure the same virus spyware issues will appear

its not code or hardware that stops them getting the amopunt of issues just the leet little script kiddies havnt paid attention to them

Note that the majority of web servers run ... Linux.
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html

So by your logic, if we really wanted to cause some chaos, virus writers would target the linux platform. So we should see loads of linux viruses ...

So while installation base is definitely a factor in numbers of viruses, it does not explain why Windows machines are compromised so successfully so often.

You could also argue that the Mac is a more desirable platform to hack than Windows. Imagine the notoriety a hacker would gain for writing the first wide spread Mac virus. Even better a similar Linux virus!

[Marcus]

Dude, check out Parallels
http://software.gigaom.com/2006/08/13/best-of-both-world-pc-on-a-mac
It allows you to run XP as a sep application so you don't need to reboot. I use it on my Mac Mini and can thus run Mac OS X and in another window have XP running with Accurate Sights going.
No restarting required.

Mac OS Tiger!! . I used to use windows back in the dark ages. I had to use Mac for my job and changed over kicking and screaming against it, but it took only 2 hours of training and have never looked back. A much easier and user friendly system than Windows. I now have an office using G5 duals and have just got a Mac Powerbook and yes I also run Windows on it for some minor programs that will not run on Mac. You can get "Boot Camp" which is the software needed to host windows XP from Apple, its only in Beta form buts runs really well, not like Virtual PC.

[Hannah]

Man, Alexvpaq needs to lose some rep for starting (yet another) stupid Windows v Mac v Linux v whatever other system that you care to mention BS argument!!!!

Who gives a ... well you know what I mean ...

[dbjac]

well, with a bit of team work we could send him so far into negatives even marcus couldnt pull him back. :D :thumb:

[Hannah]

well, with a bit of team work we could send him so far into negatives even marcus couldnt pull him back. :D :thumb:

That's true, but I always feel too mean to do that to anyone else...

[Archangel]

Whilst I do love my Mac...the above post isn't completely true...

It is true that under Windows XP, the first user created after installing the OS is an administrator and this leads to most users logging on day to day as an administrator (which is of course very bad practice), but not all Windows Users are administrators (or have to be)...and it's very easy to temporarily get administrative access when required.

It's called right click/run as..., or in some cases it's [shift+rightclick]/run as...

;)
I didn't say you absolutely *had* to be an admin, but when you try not to be, many things just plain don't work - I hear Diablo 2 doesn't for example, and there were at one time or another at least six million computers running that. The very fact that nobody seemed to make much fuss implies that it wasn't that big a deal, because they were all admins already.

As you say, you can run as, but it's hardly obvious (not enough for the leet script kiddies) - and it doesn't address the more fundamental issue, that you're expected to be an admin, and most people will be, rather than a restricted user like on other OS's.

[Juggs]

Note that the majority of web servers run ... Linux.
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html

So by your logic, if we really wanted to cause some chaos, virus writers would target the linux platform. So we should see loads of linux viruses ...

So while installation base is definitely a factor in numbers of viruses, it does not explain why Windows machines are compromised so successfully so often.

You could also argue that the Mac is a more desirable platform to hack than Windows. Imagine the notoriety a hacker would gain for writing the first wide spread Mac virus. Even better a similar Linux virus!

i guess windows leave so many ports and avenues open for the 1000s of 1000s of applications written for it

does mac support as many programs utilities as a pc ?

[Hannah]

I didn't say you absolutely *had* to be an admin, but when you try not to be, many things just plain don't work - I hear Diablo 2 doesn't for example, and there were at one time or another at least six million computers running that. The very fact that nobody seemed to make much fuss implies that it wasn't that big a deal, because they were all admins already.

As you say, you can run as, but it's hardly obvious (not enough for the leet script kiddies) - and it doesn't address the more fundamental issue, that you're expected to be an admin, and most people will be, rather than a restricted user like on other OS's.

Again, I hardly think this argument is worth anything...people have already made their decision about what they are going to use (and given that most people are more stubborn than mules, is arguing really going to do anything anyway other than cement previously held beliefs???).

But since we insist...

The fact is that if you are not an admin you cannot install a program on Windows. This does not stop you from playing it if it has been previously installed. Further, this makes sense because if you are running a network you don't want people to be installing programs that are not kosher. However, this only arises if you belong to a network and given that the vast majority of these are in a work environment the average user will be an administrator at home. Thus making the problem not a major prob for most people. The fact that the default settings on a windows install mean that most things are open unless it is closed (and most would not know how to do this) means that a heck of a lot of problems are default in running Windows - however these defaults are changing also. However, this completely avoids the question/argument of user expectations.

Get over it people...

[ninevalleys]

Windows cause its better to play games on.. plus if you rocked up with a MAC to one of my local LAN parties.. well lets jsut say you wouldn't..:D

NV

[Marcus]

Windows cause its better to play games on.. plus if you rocked up with a MAC to one of my local LAN parties.. well lets jsut say you wouldn't..:D

NV
Rocked up to a LAN party with a 5 year old Mac. It was faster, had better graphics and had no network troubles like th PC's did.
Yeah they picked on me untill they realised mine was the only machine working. :rofl:

[ninevalleys]

ill let ya know when our next one is... we'll see about fast :D...

[Eberbachl]

Man, Alexvpaq needs to lose some rep for starting (yet another) stupid Windows v Mac v Linux v whatever other system that you care to mention BS argument!!!!

Who gives a ... well you know what I mean ...

You seem to care about it...you keep posting in it!

:p

:rofl:

[DavidA]

once mac popularity (cough never gunna happen ) increases to take 50% share of microsoft im sure the same virus spyware issues will appear

its not code or hardware that stops them getting the amopunt of issues just the leet little script kiddies havnt paid attention to them

http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisemac/archives/2006/08/is_windows_inhe.html

Good article from infoWorld on Virus/Malware vunerability of Windows against Mac OSX
davida

[Liam]

Xandros is FREE.

Windows is not.

OSX is only available on overpriced hardware.

(For the average home user, Marcus. I'm not in the mood to argue. :D)

[paulrb]

OSX is only available on overpriced hardware.

(For the average home user, Marcus. I'm not in the mood to argue. :D)


Liam dude.... you get what you pay for. Apple hardware is expensive, but if you buy a windoz machine with equal capacity (number of features and specs) you pay almost as much.

If you only need a Bimbo Box, buy a Barina, but if you want a pocket rocket, get a WRX. Same in computers.

I am on my 5th apple.. now a G5 thang.. cost $3,200.00 and worth every cent.

Still, I do have to wait for descent games to be ported.... but I am told I am too old to spend so much time playing them anyway so hey.


PS, Nice to see someone with less vCash than me!!!!

[Marcus]

Liam dude.... you get what you pay for. Apple hardware is expensive, but if you buy a windoz machine with equal capacity (number of features and specs) you pay almost as much.

Word! Amazes me that some people will buy quality on some things and think they can get a free ride on others.

[Archangel]

The fact is that if you are not an admin you cannot install a program on Windows. This does not stop you from playing it if it has been previously installed.
Yes, actually, in many cases it does. Due to bad practice (for games, saving things in Program Files is quite common) it may not be possible to run some programs as a restricted user - or at least not easily.

Further, this makes sense because if you are running a network you don't want people to be installing programs that are not kosher. However, this only arises if you belong to a network and given that the vast majority of these are in a work environment the average user will be an administrator at home. Thus making the problem not a major prob for most people. The fact that the default settings on a windows install mean that most things are open unless it is closed (and most would not know how to do this) means that a heck of a lot of problems are default in running Windows - however these defaults are changing also. However, this completely avoids the question/argument of user expectations.
You're right that it avoids some problems - but IMO those problems would have been Microsoft's fault for not creating a proper environment to allow users not to have to be admins. Seems to work okay for Apple.
It prevents the poor ickle users from being confused, but has (at least contributed to) their enormous problem with spyware, which Microsoft haven't really managed to make any headway against yet.

[Archangel]

Rocked up to a LAN party with a 5 year old Mac. It was faster, had better graphics and had no network troubles like th PC's did.
Yeah they picked on me untill they realised mine was the only machine working. :rofl:
I can see the 'no network troubles', sure, but a relatively decent x86 desktop from today would piss all over a five-year-old Mac in terms of straight performance. A G4 and a GeForce4 against a dual-core Athlon64 and a GeForce 7xxx? Not a chance...
Possibly your local LAN party just had some _really_ ancient machines?

[Robin Dud]

Dude, check out Parallels
http://software.gigaom.com/2006/08/13/best-of-both-world-pc-on-a-mac
It allows you to run XP as a sep application so you don't need to reboot. I use it on my Mac Mini and can thus run Mac OS X and in another window have XP running with Accurate Sights going.
No restarting required.
Thanks for the tip

[alexvpaq]

Man, Alexvpaq needs to lose some rep for starting (yet another) stupid Windows v Mac v Linux v whatever other system that you care to mention BS argument!!!!

Who gives a ... well you know what I mean ...

Oh c'moN! everyone likes to say there computer's better for X reason...
and anyway if it wasn't me, it would have been someone else :silly:

[Liam]

Crossover is supposed to be better than Parallels.

http://www.codeweavers.com/beta/cxmac/

[StevenB]

Word! Amazes me that some people will buy quality on some things and think they can get a free ride on others.


:thumb: You buy a top end PC or Mac you get quality.

Windows biggest problem is that they haven't followed Apple in securing their OS for the general knuckle dragging users.

[recurve boy]

:thumb: You buy a top end PC or Mac you get quality.

Windows biggest problem is that they haven't followed Apple in securing their OS for the general knuckle dragging users.

They haven't followed anybody. Who leaves unused ports open by default? WTF? They've fixed it in XP SP2, but really, no other OS ever did that. Just Windows.

[alexvpaq]

:thumb: aouch... Why do I have to pay for creating this thread! :thumb:

[Archangel]

:thumb: aouch... Why do I have to pay for creating this thread! :thumb:
Should have known better, shouldn't you ;-)

[alexvpaq]

Should have known better, shouldn't you ;-)
errr... yeah... but... It's my first daY! :silly:
:mad:

[rabbitz]

Can we add a selection to the poll?

All of the above

I think it is amusing watching the OS religious war being waged....
I have to work with all of them and a few more, and I have come to the conclusion that I hate them all!!

Rabz

[Archangel]

Might need a 'none of the above' too if there's a BSD user lurking around here - or FreeDOS, or BeOS, or AmigaOS4 or whatever :-P

[Lastat]

Yeah noticed this lil discussion and thought id put my 2 cents worth in ... im using XP pro on my desktop and laptop but when it comes down to it any machine with any flavour of Linux is more fun... and mostly free (have fun ya can mess with it)