Comment on my shooting form

[reversehaven]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG2Rq1Ax0lw

here it is. I think my release isn't done right.. Like i've seen the korean archers do it but i can't seem to make it happen here :(:(

yes. in this vid i've got no V bars though i've just gotten new ones. can't show you all the new one cuz vid's 100+mb. can't upload it to youtube. anyone has any suggestions on how i can downsize the vid?

Anyway, punching gloves off. comment as you will. :cool:

[Jean Lafitte]

you come up really high and don't take the time to set your shoul - oh, just stick to listening to your coach, why don't you?

i think the internet is the last place i'd go for form advice.

[Jay.G]

Yea your release need some work, you should try blind shooting and concentrate on your release, not letting go of your string but rather relaxe your fingers and let the string propel itself away. Try a deeper hook (the joints on the fingers, 1st joints), that'll sometime make it better.

[reversehaven]

haha. i would stick to my coach. thing is i don't want to be stuck with one opinion. though yes i trust my coach, but i'd just like to know what you guys think :). though what's been said so far is similar to what my coach's been telling me.

anyway, i'm kind of in a dilemma. to go korean or to stick to what my coach says in terms of technique. Though my coach is semi-korean. He's an advocate of the korean open stance. I know Rick McKinney would too (i've read his book, which has a Rick McKinney's special stance, which is really a one-up from the korean open stance)

Anyway, my coach still firmly believes that his methods work, and listening to what he says i think it makes sense using his method over the korean method. However it just doesn't reconcile... why do the koreans perform better than just about anyone, even though their method has some problems (according to theory.. or so says my coach.)

[Jay.G]

Because they shoot soo much that any imperfection is repeated soo many times its integrated into their shooting and reproduced each time the exactly same. Repetition and consistency. And hey it might just work for them and its personalised like everything in archery?;)

[recurve boy]

Because they shoot soo much that any imperfection is repeated soo many times its integrated into their shooting and reproduced each time the exactly same. Repetition and consistency. And hey it might just work for them and its personalised like everything in archery?;)

Or maybe, they shoot with a technique that promotes consistency.

Also, that video was really bad quality. You can't see anything

[Jean Lafitte]

haha. i would stick to my coach. thing is i don't want to be stuck with one opinion. though yes i trust my coach, but i'd just like to know what you guys think :). though what's been said so far is similar to what my coach's been telling me.

anyway, i'm kind of in a dilemma. to go korean or to stick to what my coach says in terms of technique. Though my coach is semi-korean. He's an advocate of the korean open stance. I know Rick McKinney would too (i've read his book, which has a Rick McKinney's special stance, which is really a one-up from the korean open stance)

Anyway, my coach still firmly believes that his methods work, and listening to what he says i think it makes sense using his method over the korean method. However it just doesn't reconcile... why do the koreans perform better than just about anyone, even though their method has some problems (according to theory.. or so says my coach.)

You worry too much. There's no inherent advantage of any one style because all styles, when done properly, are fundamentally the same.

Basically, we're all copying Darrel Pace and pretending to be different.

[Ja]

you dont want to shoot like the koreans, shoot like the aussies ;)

[Jean Lafitte]

you dont want to shoot like the koreans, shoot like the aussies ;)

No, shoot like the Taiwanese who beat them!

[Drummo]

here it is. I think my release isn't done right.. Like i've seen the korean archers do it but i can't seem to make it happen here
the quality of your release lies within the setup. positioning your fingers properly on the string, using your upper arm/back muscles to draw the bow, and using the deep flexor muscles in your forearmarm to relax your fingers are all important elements to it.

a common misconception among a lot of archers is that you should curl and tense your fingers around the string, and then relax your fingers to release. however, a good release doesn't use the fingers, it uses the muscles/tendons in the forearm. it's best to imagine a chain in your forearm, extending from your elbow to your fingers. you relax the chain in the upper arm to release the tension along it, allowing the string to open the fingers up of it's own accord.

however, to ensure you bring your hand back in the proper line, you should use a lot of back tension, which i can see you're attempting by drawing high, and thus raising your rear scapula to transfer some of the weight. but how are you going with the back tension?

in my opinion, you can't really get quality advice from reading stuff regarding form and technique, because theres so many finer points. its not something you can read and get down in a few hours, it takes ages to get it down properly.

what i would recommend is talk to a couple of top archers; approach them at tournaments and ask them about how they do things, and intensely watch them shoot. once you've got all these different theories in your head (which do ultimately lead to the same thing), you will be able to incorporate those into your own.

that's what i've done, and am still doing. and it's worked very nicely for me:D

[dane]

you could hold it longer and your release does need some work

[Jay.G]

Or maybe, they shoot with a technique that promotes consistency.

Also, that video was really bad quality. You can't see anything

Agree but thats speculation, yea the video is kinda crappy.

[reversehaven]

hmm.. i'm presently trying to imagine my fingers as a compound release. Like yanno, having my fingers curl round the string with just about enough strength just to hold the string and prevent it from slipping. Then relaxing it and pulling back as fast as possible during release.

Sigh easier said than done :( i'm trying to get the back muscle working. It hasn't been working right for the past three weeks, and right now right in between my scepulae, just slightly right of the spine about three inches down from my shoulder height... there's one single point that i feel pain. Especially if i tilt my head all the way down or up.

hmm. anyone know of a better way to upload vids apart from youtube? yeah. the vid's kinda crappy cuz my friend who took it has a really shaky hand. I have another vid, much better quality, taken by another friend (who's quite good in photography) buti t's 165 mb so youtube rejected it.

Hmm. actually i'm finding problems shooting THIS fast nowadays. This vid was taken about 2 weeks or so ago. Right now i end up taking too long to aim and expand :( slightly over 5 seconds consistently.

By the way, for the recurvers here.. just wondering, how many of you follow the korean-style anchoring? i mean, an anchor pressing the string deep into your face? i'm actually doing something similar except mine touches the tip of my nose lightly but goes deep into my chin and lower lip. my coach says that this could potentially affect the string flight in the way it initiates the split second you release the shot. Anyone care to shed some light?

[Progen]

...

hmm. anyone know of a better way to upload vids apart from youtube? yeah. the vid's kinda crappy cuz my friend who took it has a really shaky hand. I have another vid, much better quality, taken by another friend (who's quite good in photography) buti t's 165 mb so youtube rejected it.

I think we'll reject it too if it's that size. :D



By the way, for the recurvers here.. just wondering, how many of you follow the korean-style anchoring? i mean, an anchor pressing the string deep into your face? i'm actually doing something similar except mine touches the tip of my nose lightly but goes deep into my chin and lower lip. my coach says that this could potentially affect the string flight in the way it initiates the split second you release the shot. Anyone care to shed some light?

I didn't know that they had a secret way of anchoring. :confused: :confused: :confused:

It looks as if they're pressing the string deep into their faces because of their pouts. :D Also depends a lot on your facial structure.

[reversehaven]

Stop worrying about what Koreans do, because you're not doing a very good job analyzing their form anyway.

Haha. i wasn't exactly trying to analyse their form. Though really what i'm trying to do is to pick out the good points from the experts' form and hopefully use it for myself.

Though i'm no expert. Really. Have only been shooting just slightly over a year, and i'm still learning. Through this time i've formed opinions on some aspects of archery, some of which are rather skewed, misguided or inaccurate opinions. I humbly seek everyone's patience and help in correcting them.

Anyway, there's one thing i'm not clear about here. Like looking at the way the koreans shoot.. (say taking yun mi jin as an example) are they using the B.E.S.T. method? I'm still quite unclear about what the B.E.S.T. method is all about and apart from the kisik lee site, does anyone have any more reading material about it?

[Jean Lafitte]

Er, his book?

The Koreans do not use the BEST method. Kisik Lee hasn't been a Korean coach in a decade.

[Progen]

Er, his book?

The Koreans do not use the BEST method. Kisik Lee hasn't been a Korean coach in a decade.

Much as I'd hate to agree with the pirate, he's right. The basic elements are there but it's not pure B.E.S.T. As in Ki Sik's B.E.S.T.

[Sandy Hancock]

....looking at the way the koreans shoot.. (say taking yun mi jin as an example) are they using the B.E.S.T. method? I'm still quite unclear about what the B.E.S.T. method is all about and apart from the kisik lee site, does anyone have any more reading material about it?

I can think of a book called "Total Archery" which may point you in the right direction. Guess who the author is....

Seriously though Reversehaven, I think your form looks pretty good, although the high draw is bit old school. Your release looks very relaxed; is that a very light bow??

[Progen]

... Your release looks very relaxed; is that a very light bow??

Yeah, that was what I wanted to ask too. Reminded me of myself when I was playing around with those 22lb bows. You could get away with all kinds of releases without any back tension.

[Jean Lafitte]

I wish I could shoot my normal bow like I shoot a #15 bow.

[reversehaven]

I can think of a book called "Total Archery" which may point you in the right direction. Guess who the author is....

Seriously though Reversehaven, I think your form looks pretty good, although the high draw is bit old school. Your release looks very relaxed; is that a very light bow??

hmm. yes i know bout' the book AND the author. Though like i mentioned somewhere else i'm just a student, and i don't want to ask my parents for cash(and further drain them financially) we aren't exactly going through good times so already i'm relying on winning awards and working part time just to squeeze money for carbon arrows which i haven't got yet.

To me i'd think they're priority, because if someone i know gets the book, i could borrow it from him/her rather than have to buy it. Though presently nobody in singapore i know owns this book.. neither do i know who i can buy it from. Hence it'll be even more expensive since i'll have to buy it online.

Well, the high draw i learnt it from my coach. He got his coaching cert some ten years back, which could explain why his method tends to be a bit old. Anyway, i'm still grateful for him because he's brought me this far to where I am right now. As for my bow, i'm pulling about 33.5 pounds in draw weight. Yes i'ts a light bow. Though i don't want to compromise my form by pulling heavier bows. I find myself using the wrong muscles if i try to pull my friends' 38 pound bows... so i won't go up until i have my form really solid.

[Drummo]

I can think of a book called "Total Archery" which may point you in the right direction. Guess who the author is....

i think 'total archery' is a great book, but covers all the concepts a bit too shallow for my liking.

theres another book which i have called 'archery anatomy'. thats very helpful aswell. it doesnt go through the procedural side of things as much, but it really helps with the understanding of the anatomical side of archery, and positioning things correctly. once you have that down nicely, it will form the procedure anyway.

[crosshairs]

haha. i would stick to my coach. thing is i don't want to be stuck with one opinion. though yes i trust my coach, but i'd just like to know what you guys think :). though what's been said so far is similar to what my coach's been telling me.

anyway, i'm kind of in a dilemma. to go korean or to stick to what my coach says in terms of technique. Though my coach is semi-korean. He's an advocate of the korean open stance. I know Rick McKinney would too (i've read his book, which has a Rick McKinney's special stance, which is really a one-up from the korean open stance)

Anyway, my coach still firmly believes that his methods work, and listening to what he says i think it makes sense using his method over the korean method. However it just doesn't reconcile... why do the koreans perform better than just about anyone, even though their method has some problems (according to theory.. or so says my coach.)

Koreans have different physique. You are not Korean. You dun look Korean. You don't eat that much Kimchi I'm sure. At the end of the day, the name of the game is not imitating their style, but imitating their scores is more forgiveable.

I am curious. May I enquire, who is your coach?

[crosshairs]

33.5 lbs? You measured?

Stick to your aluminiums. At 34 lbs it's not decent enough to get to 70m. At least get up to 38lbs.

[Jean Lafitte]

Koreans have different physique. You are not Korean. You dun look Korean. You don't eat that much Kimchi I'm sure. At the end of the day, the name of the game is not imitating their style, but imitating their scores is more forgiveable.

I am curious. May I enquire, who is your coach?

Racial physiques are so similar that there's no reason to believe one race can't have the exact same shooting form as another. Individual physiques are far more important.

33.5 lbs? You measured?

Stick to your aluminiums. At 34 lbs it's not decent enough to get to 70m. At least get up to 38lbs.

lol. You can definitely do 70m with #33.5.

[Eberbachl]

Koreans have different physique. You are not Korean. You dun look Korean. You don't eat that much Kimchi I'm sure. At the end of the day, the name of the game is not imitating their style, but imitating their scores is more forgiveable.


I'm coming to the conclusion that you are a silly fellow...

[Hannah]

I'm coming to the conclusion that you are a silly fellow...

:drum:

[Marcus]

why do the koreans perform better than just about anyone, even though their method has some problems
Ever watched Park (their 1405 shooter) shoot?
Perfection.

[Jean Lafitte]

I'm cuious to know what problems their method has.

[crosshairs]

I'm coming to the conclusion that you are a silly fellow...

That's because you have no idea how obsessed some Singaporean are with everything Korean......

After awhile it gets all too sickening.

[crosshairs]

In terms of Archery. I can't say the same about their cars.

[Sandy Hancock]

In terms of Archery. I can't say the same about their cars.

Let me get this straight; you're saying Korean archery sucks, but you drive a Kia? Issues, dude.

[Brocky]

That's because you have no idea how obsessed some Singaporean are with everything Korean......

After awhile it gets all too sickening.
I will agree, you & pogen do become sickening after some time.

[Progen]

Here too, birdie boy? :confused: You do realize that you haven't got a lot of friends. ;)

Folks here are exchanging information and trying to learn something new in the process but there you go on and on with your little nosepicking flicks.

Here, have a 100 on me and get yourself a girl. Don't reckon that's enough but I do hope you have some savings of your own.

A bag of jellybeans can promote conflict.

That's because they're the same size as your balls, birdie boy. ;)

[Hannah]

I'm cuious to know what problems their method has.

Likewise...reversehaven what exactly does your coach say?

[reversehaven]

hm.. well, so far as to what my coach says, he believes that the koreans' pressing the string hard onto the face creates some oscillations in the string as it releases. Or so he says.(that's one of the things that he doesn't like about the korean form)

But there again on the other hand i'm lookinga t what you all said, maybe it does promote consistency.

i'm not saying the koreans suck. no. actually i admire them from the bottom of my heart.couldn't have agreed with marcus more, though i'd say it's not perfection. Yet. But right now i'm trying to find the perfect model for shooting.. for someone who just can't afford to spend every single minute of his waking time shooting and trainig (i wished i coud.).

As far as i know the koreans pretty much almost do that (of course if you ignore the linguistic exaggeration.) it COULD be that they've shot so much that they're able to repeatedly do something that's not physically efficient in their form so consistently that they shoot just about better than anyone else you can find with more efficient forms.

well, at least, that's what's on my mind and that's what i'm saying here. But there again i'm kinda hazy as to what IS korean what ISNT korean and what i'm REALLY interested in is what's B.E.S.T.

and crosshair.... i did 90m with 33.5 pounds which i measured. not nicely grouped but at least all the arrows are on the board except for an occasional one or two. now would you please stop embarrassing yourself here?

[crosshairs]

and crosshair.... i did 90m with 33.5 pounds which i measured. not nicely grouped but at least all the arrows are on the board except for an occasional one or two. now would you please stop embarrassing yourself here?

Er, hey, whatever number of greens you are satisfied with.

[Hannah]

Er, hey, whatever number of greens you are satisfied with.

That is completely unnecesary, IMO. Honestly, how does that even encourage???? As for what poundage reversehaven shoots, I think his logic is fine...there are people at my club who do not increase their poundage until their form is a little better also. Besides, different people have different physical capabilities.

[crosshairs]

He doesn't need my encouragement.

[crosshairs]

He can land his arrows on the board at 90m.

[crosshairs]

With a mere 33.5 lbs draw force.

[Hannah]

Do you have a personal vendetta against reversehaven, do you? If so, could you please keep it to yourself, 'cause I don't care to hear about it.

[Jay.G]

and stop triple posting its annoying to read!

[Progen]

He needs to get his post count up after the 3 odd years he's spent in the asylum. Anyway, reversehaven's in the best position to sort this out for himself since they're both on the same island. :D :D :D

[dbjac]

Admin, have you guys missplaced the banning stick or something?
im supprised this d*ck is still around.

[Marcus]

Here too, birdie boy? :confused: You do realize that you haven't got a lot of friends. ;)


Said who? :confused:

[Jay.G]

To be honest I don't think this forum wouldn't be as fun as it is without brocky or other misbehavers...:silly::rofl::thumb:

[alexvpaq]

yeah korean are great but they are training like 7 days a week :rolleyes: whole day
and even better... they are paid for it!

That's what I call A job!

[reversehaven]

hm. i don't know who he is so if he DOES have a personal vendetta against me.........i'd share jay's joy in making fun of his type of people. ^^ forums ain't fun until you've got some lil' misbehavers ain't it? 'sides, everyone loves a lil' controversy. ain't it?

well, really i'm more concerned about the tag 'singapore' he has there on his profile. Please don't make the mistake. not all singaporeans are like this. he's one of the rare exceptions.

anyway, i just got a free set of 8 A/C/Es from this friend of mine. it's his old set and he's not shooting actively so he decided it'd be better used in my hands. but it's a bit stiff for my poundage, so i'm thinking of cranking my limbs up to about 36 pounds and give it a try. going to try it tomorrow.

[Jay.G]

well be careful a sudden ascendency in poundage have sometimes, unusual repercussions.

[crosshairs]

hm. i don't know who he is so if he DOES have a personal vendetta against me.........i'd share jay's joy in making fun of his type of people. ^^ forums ain't fun until you've got some lil' misbehavers ain't it? 'sides, everyone loves a lil' controversy. ain't it?

well, really i'm more concerned about the tag 'singapore' he has there on his profile. Please don't make the mistake. not all singaporeans are like this. he's one of the rare exceptions.

anyway, i just got a free set of 8 A/C/Es from this friend of mine. it's his old set and he's not shooting actively so he decided it'd be better used in my hands. but it's a bit stiff for my poundage, so i'm thinking of cranking my limbs up to about 36 pounds and give it a try. going to try it tomorrow.

I don't know you, I do not have a personal grudge on people I don't know. I do not think that is possible.

I carry the tag 'Singapore' because I have a pink IC, I served my National Service for 35 months, and I have a home here. If you're concerned about this, do something about it, don't just sit there and talk.

Cranking up? What about your form? What happened to staying at 33.5? Wasn't that the plan just a few days ago?

8 ACE's? Paying respect to second hand equipment? Don't.

[dbjac]

LOL, are you still here? Shoo.

[Jay.G]

with a mere 33.5lb
cranking up?

You like to complain don't ya, stop contradicting yourself. One second you're saying he's only pulling a 'mere' 33.5lb the next you are complaining he's increasing it.

paying respect to second gear? Don't

Wtf is wrong with free ACEs? if they are good for ya and works well, wouldn't you take them? :silly::silly:

[Brocky]

Here too, birdie boy? :confused: You do realize that you haven't got a lot of friends. ;)

Folks here are exchanging information and trying to learn something new in the process but there you go on and on with your little nosepicking flicks.

Here, have a 100 on me and get yourself a girl. Don't reckon that's enough but I do hope you have some savings of your own.
That's because they're the same size as your balls, birdie boy. ;)

But the friends I have are good one's.
Well that explains alot your just learning about things related to archery.
I always new you would be cheap, 100 would not come close to the lady's I know here in Australia or NZ.
And as far as the last comment: grow up your poor little man.

[ninevalleys]

32 pounds can reach 90 m, (its a bit of a clout but it still makes it)

[Progen]

32 pounds can reach 90 m, (its a bit of a clout but it still makes it)

Sure it's not flight archery? :D

And now, let's wait for Brocky. ;)

[ninevalleys]

lol, i like ot sit back and watch my arrows eventually hit the target ROFL... eventually

[reversehaven]

I carry the tag 'Singapore' because I have a pink IC, I served my National Service for 35 months, and I have a home here. If you're concerned about this, do something about it, don't just sit there and talk.

Cranking up? What about your form? What happened to staying at 33.5? Wasn't that the plan just a few days ago?

8 ACE's? Paying respect to second hand equipment? Don't.
please do me this favour and stop embrassing yourself on this forum any more. if at least you contribute to some intellectual discussion(while making sense) i'm sure you won't be under so much fire.

Besides, i'm not some rich bugger like you. Every single cent I have spent on equipment is almost just like draining quite a lot of my blood to exchange for it. i'm not exaggerating. i'm not well-to-do like most singaporeans so i more than just welcome second hand equipment. After all, i got it for free.. i'm not complaining.

hmm. just tried the crank up. presently it's at about 37.5 lbs. i'm struggling a bit when pushing to click toward the end of my 3-hour training session but that's fine. still not too bad. The supposedly stiff spines actually tuned in nicely such that right now it doesn't make any difference fletched shaft or bareshaft. in terms of shooting. though i'm a bit concerned cuz i'm beginning to use a bit of my triceps to 'supplement' the pulling. i'm trying to correct that. hopefully my coach will be free next time i go down so he can work it out with me.
32 pounds can reach 90 m, (its a bit of a clout but it still makes it)
yeah i'd agree it's a bit of a clout but it still makes it. at 70m it's fine enough to group within say, blue? but i haven't tried with my A/C/Es yet.

[Jay.G]

please do me this favour and stop embrassing yourself on this forum any more. if at least you contribute to some intellectual discussion(while making sense) i'm sure you won't be under so much fire.

Besides, i'm not some rich bugger like you. Every single cent I have spent on equipment is almost just like draining quite a lot of my blood to exchange for it. i'm not exaggerating. i'm not well-to-do like most singaporeans so i more than just welcome second hand equipment. After all, i got it for free.. i'm not complaining.

hmm. just tried the crank up. presently it's at about 37.5 lbs. i'm struggling a bit when pushing to click toward the end of my 3-hour training session but that's fine. still not too bad. The supposedly stiff spines actually tuned in nicely such that right now it doesn't make any difference fletched shaft or bareshaft. in terms of shooting. though i'm a bit concerned cuz i'm beginning to use a bit of my triceps to 'supplement' the pulling. i'm trying to correct that. hopefully my coach will be free next time i go down so he can work it out with me.

yeah i'd agree it's a bit of a clout but it still makes it. at 70m it's fine enough to group within say, blue? but i haven't tried with my A/C/Es yet.
so with 32lb you only can only group in the blue...?:confused: Well I wonder how us juniors with 32-33lb or less break 300 at 70 then...:rolleyes:

[Hannah]

so with 32lb you only can only group in the blue...?:confused: Well I wonder how us juniors with 32-33lb or less break 300 at 70 then...:rolleyes:

Who says he has been shooting at 70m for all that long?

[Jay.G]

ah I now I get it... I thought he meant in general for people who shoot around that poundage that they can only group in the blue. :lol: my bad.

[ninevalleys]

actually my 32# recurve (70inch) can easily do 90m!! havent tried grouping, actually i havent tried shooting anythign past 30m properly yet, i jsut took a shot with my sight at the aroudn the bottom and got it sailed around 120-130metres...

[crosshairs]

Besides, i'm not some rich bugger like you.
.

So you're like, poor? And I am rich? Where did you get that idea?

Every single cent I have spent on equipment is almost just like draining quite a lot of my blood to exchange for it. i'm not exaggerating. i'm not well-to-do like most singaporeans so i more than just welcome second hand equipment. After all, i got it for free.. i'm not complaining..

We've seen these sad stories countless times, picking up other people's unwanted arrows seldom lead to anything good.

hmm. just tried the crank up. presently it's at about 37.5 lbs. i'm struggling a bit when pushing to click toward the end of my 3-hour training session but that's fine. still not too bad. The supposedly stiff spines actually tuned in nicely such that right now it doesn't make any difference fletched shaft or bareshaft. in terms of shooting. though i'm a bit concerned cuz i'm beginning to use a bit of my triceps to 'supplement' the pulling. i'm trying to correct that. hopefully my coach will be free next time i go down so he can work it out with me...

Nothing to do with technique or form, you're just not strong enough.

yeah i'd agree it's a bit of a clout but it still makes it. at 70m it's fine enough to group within say, blue? but i haven't tried with my A/C/Es yet.

ACEs are not magic arrows.

[reversehaven]

actually my 32# recurve (70inch) can easily do 90m!! havent tried grouping, actually i havent tried shooting anythign past 30m properly yet, i jsut took a shot with my sight at the aroudn the bottom and got it sailed around 120-130metres...

well, i've only been shooting for a year. I've not shot at 50m for more than 5 times(i mean in five separate sessions) and i've shot 70m twice and 90 once but that was before I got my V bar and that was before i fully attuned myself to the bow. Managed to get everything in blue except for an occasional black or white. I suppose for any poundage it is possible to score well at long distances. It's just that your form needs to be much more consistent so that really means you're just at a disadvantage.

If I HAD the privilege to... i would have loved to start the sport young. It's a pity in a place like singapore... in this.. urban rat race.. sometimes it gets so hard even to take time off to train.

well, the world ain't perfect. you have to give up academic excellence or you give up sports.

oh btw, Ninevalleys, welcome to the dark siDE MWAHAHAHAHAHAH Join us and we shall rule the galaxy together!!!!!

[Jay.G]

So you're like, poor? And I am rich? Where did you get that idea?



We've seen these sad stories countless times, picking up other people's unwanted arrows seldom lead to anything good.



Nothing to do with technique or form, you're just not strong enough.



ACEs are not magic arrows.

:rofl: We? :rofl:. Umm so picking up other people's unwanted arrow is bad... why? if they can be used properly I doubt anyone would not want them.

Well of course he's not strong enough yet, he just increased 4lb duh... and he hasn't mention anything about form that's the reason for him not be able to get use to the new poundage. READ.:silly:

ACEs are so magical! :thumb: :rofl: Dude he's only trying to say ACE can improve he's grouping and if his using Platinum pluses of couse its going to... You have to be an idiot or a crosshair to not know that.
Stop taking a piss at reverseheaven... Actually its kinda weird. You're always trying to take a piss at him, is there some weird-obsessive reason? I wonder...;)

[reversehaven]

:ACEs are so magical! :thumb: :rofl:

lol. i must admit they're quite magical. i started recording score today. my form wasn't particularly good today. i mean, it's not that kind of day you'll jus wake up and go EUREKA! and then when you start shooting you'll be shooting top of the line, hitting X's and 10s.

but it's the third session i've used these magic wands and when i decided to record score..... i managed to get some pretty impressive scores that i never expected myself to get. quite a leap of about 30 or 40 points. now if you don't call that magic i'll pin you to a board and shoot my new magic wands at you till you agree with me that it's magic.

managed to get some fairly decent groupings there. i recorded it using target plot and i'm going to plot some graphs...and do a projection of my scores... and consider if i'm really ready for a full single fita round.

[ninevalleys]

even if your projections dont turn out all that amazing, still have a go at a full FITA, it cant hurt and will be great practice!

[reversehaven]

hmm. here's what my score projections look like. I have two different sets of data which give quite a large scope of probability.

the first set was projected from my 50m score on a 122cm face. So first what i did was to project a 50m score on a 80cm face. It should be the same, assuming the negation of mental effects of a 80cm face. the score on the 122 face was 305. here's hte full projection.(full FITA standard)

30m-311
50m-264(original score projected onto a 122 face)
70m-273
90m-247

total score:1095/1440

the second set of data was projected from my 30m score on a 80cm face. the score's here. 330.

30m-330(original score)
50m-294
70m-303
90m-283

total score:1210/1440

I also took the score of my last 4 shots at 70m that day.... and took an average of it's score...and projected out a possible score of 261 at that range. But I had only shot 2 ends at 70m before that, so my sights aren't perfectly tuned for the distance yet. groups are a bit low.

what do you guys reckon? am i ready for a full FITA? i'm going to take score at 70m this saturday just to give the projections a higher degree of accuraccy. I presently can't do 90m in school otherwise i'd probably take score there too.

[Jay.G]

You'll be alright methinks, though just by using one distance and predict the score for a whole fita is abit unpractical. Since factors like fatigue, actual shooting condition may change between distances is not taking into acount. Best way just to shoot a Fita and then you'll know more or less where you'd get in an actual FITA.

BTW how did you predict the other distances' scores?

[James Park]

If you want to use scores at one distance to predict scores at another distance you can use the Archery Australia score index system. I have included it in "Accurate Sights".
For a particular Index, the score can be calculated for a given number of shots at a particular distance, and so on for a whole round.
There are, of course, variations due to tiredness, wind, etc. However, it has proven to be pretty good at estimating an archers score, on average.
It will let you, for example, compare the score for a FITA round with that for a FITA 900 round, or FITA Field, and so on.

Post number 73 in the following thread will show you how you can compare distance scores (in the case shown it is for the World Record FITA score):
http://www.archery-forum.com/showthread.php?t=12877&page=4

The way these calculations are done is by calculating the archer's average group size (its Standard Deviation) for each distance and superimposing that on the relevant target face. As the ability of the archer increases, his Standard Deviation decreases, giving a higher score.

[recurve boy]

Stop projecting and shoot the damn round. I'm not sure how well this works. My 30, 50 70 are quite all right, but I always lose loads of point at 90. I don't think I've ever broken 200 at 90 before ... there's just something about 90 ...

hmm. here's what my score projections look like. I have two different sets of data which give quite a large scope of probability.

the first set was projected from my 50m score on a 122cm face. So first what i did was to project a 50m score on a 80cm face. It should be the same, assuming the negation of mental effects of a 80cm face. the score on the 122 face was 305. here's hte full projection.(full FITA standard)

30m-311
50m-264(original score projected onto a 122 face)
70m-273
90m-247

total score:1095/1440

the second set of data was projected from my 30m score on a 80cm face. the score's here. 330.

30m-330(original score)
50m-294
70m-303
90m-283

total score:1210/1440

I also took the score of my last 4 shots at 70m that day.... and took an average of it's score...and projected out a possible score of 261 at that range. But I had only shot 2 ends at 70m before that, so my sights aren't perfectly tuned for the distance yet. groups are a bit low.

what do you guys reckon? am i ready for a full FITA? i'm going to take score at 70m this saturday just to give the projections a higher degree of accuraccy. I presently can't do 90m in school otherwise i'd probably take score there too.

[Sandy Hancock]

Listen to the crowd, reversehaven. Shoot the round. If you shoot 180 @ 90 metres so what? It will indicate you need to concentrate more on this range, which is where the money is in a FITA anyway. Shooting a great 30 will only get you a few extra points, a great 90 could get you 50.

Projections will only get you so far, especially with longer ranges you haven't shot before.

Just do it :thumb:

[reversehaven]

If you want to use scores at one distance to predict scores at another distance you can use the Archery Australia score index system. I have included it in "Accurate Sights".
For a particular Index, the score can be calculated for a given number of shots at a particular distance, and so on for a whole round.
There are, of course, variations due to tiredness, wind, etc. However, it has proven to be pretty good at estimating an archers score, on average.
It will let you, for example, compare the score for a FITA round with that for a FITA 900 round, or FITA Field, and so on.

Post number 73 in the following thread will show you how you can compare distance scores (in the case shown it is for the World Record FITA score):
http://www.archery-forum.com/showthread.php?t=12877&page=4

The way these calculations are done is by calculating the archer's average group size (its Standard Deviation) for each distance and superimposing that on the relevant target face. As the ability of the archer increases, his Standard Deviation decreases, giving a higher score.

sorry i took so long to come back to this thread. I normally click 'new posts' and follow the forum from there by opening interesting threads in new windows. but just happened that one day, this thread didn't turn out in the 'new posts' so i missed this thread.

hmm.. i actually used similar software for the projections. it's called target plot. which means to say i actually note down the arrow positions on the target and input it into my palmtop, which i upload to the computer. Normally for the same distance (but different target face) the projection will be quite accurate (assuming that mental state is the same). it's almost just like just swapping the target face right after you shot the round, before you calculate the score.

i tried a 70m round just yesterday. it's quite close to the projection i took for four arrows, though quite a bit lower than those projected. i got a 265. the projected score was 261. :) however there was quite a lot of wind, and according to target plot, my groups were centered quite a bit in the direction of the drift.

anyway, accurate sights sounds like an interesting software to use. i'll give it a go :)

[Jay.G]

as all the people have already said: Just shoot a damn fita.

[reversehaven]

hmm. okay. i guess i'll give it a go.

By the way, if i shoot a full FITA round, does it still mean i can shoot C division in future competitions? i'm not really sure how this really works out. in this competition that we have coming up, there's only a few categories.. like fita 900 (18 yrs and below) boo hoo. i just turned 19 two weeks ago. so i'll have to participate in the single fita.

but for most other competitions, sometimes they just categorise it into standard div, C div, and open div. so for such competitions, will i still be able to participate in C div? i understand after participating in C div once you can't go back down to standard (and stuff like that.)

[Hannah]

reversehaven, do you not have the ability to practice a fita outside of competition? Just because you are shooting a fita does not mean it has to be competitive...and this would eliminate the need for you to ponder such things. The only way you are going to improve at shooting a whole fita is to shoot a whole fita and I would have thought the best way to prepare for a tournament is to practice at your club. I don't know anything about the categories in Singapore, but I know that in Aus we have categories but they are only relevant in tournaments and it is regardless of what you shoot at the club...so at the club we practice shooting for tournaments - and that includes as many fitas as possible (if you shoot fitas, that is ;)).

Just shoot it dude, and stop making excuses - and good luck :thumb:

[Progen]

Looks like primal's in for a hard life ahead. :rofl:

Hannah takes no nonsense from nobody, reversehaven.

[Hannah]

Hannah takes no nonsense from nobody, reversehaven.
I hope that doesn't mean that I take nonsense from everyone :eek:

[Jay.G]

:rofl:...

[reversehaven]

haha.. no i'm not making excuses. just that i don't get to shoot 90m all that often. there are only two ranges in singapore which you can shoot that far. But they are quite inaccessible and very out of the way for me. so if i were to train at 90m, i'll have to specially make time out of my very busy schedule just to pop by.

though every now and then i'll challenge people for 30, 50 and 70m just for fun. i'm not exactly scared but i'm more of just wanting to find out all the details... have all the cards laid out on the table before i make a decision...

and oh. progen. you were trying to imply hannah is a black hole for nonsense? lol. nuh i'm sure primal had his reasons for choosing hannah :D

[Hannah]

haha.. no i'm not making excuses. just that i don't get to shoot 90m all that often. there are only two ranges in singapore which you can shoot that far. But they are quite inaccessible and very out of the way for me. so if i were to train at 90m, i'll have to specially make time out of my very busy schedule just to pop by.

though every now and then i'll challenge people for 30, 50 and 70m just for fun. i'm not exactly scared but i'm more of just wanting to find out all the details... have all the cards laid out on the table before i make a decision...

and oh. progen. you were trying to imply hannah is a black hole for nonsense? lol. nuh i'm sure primal had his reasons for choosing hannah :D
Then that makes a little bit more sense...but I would still suggest that you try to get out there. Have you ever shot the 30m, 50m & 70m straight? If so then just shoot a double 70m instead of 90m...its not the same, but you will get a better idea.

PS - I wouldn't shoot in a competition at a distance I haven't shot much at prior to the competition...but that is just me.

[reversehaven]

PS - I wouldn't shoot in a competition at a distance I haven't shot much at prior to the competition...but that is just me.

I wouldn't either.

hmm. i'll try a 70 50 30 straight this sat. and i'll follow up with a double 70 if i have time :)

[Hannah]

I wouldn't either.

hmm. i'll try a 70 50 30 straight this sat. and i'll follow up with a double 70 if i have time :)
if you can, try and get a target sized about the same as it would look at 90m before shooting 70m, 50m & 30m...see how you go...going to be the closest you are going to get without having the actual distance with you ;)

Good luck, and let us know how you go :thumb: