Wind drift?

[Welky]

Just wondering if there is any experience or test results out to show the difference in wind drift according to arrow velocity and/or shaft size? ie does a faster arrow drift more or less etc

[Eberbachl]

With two arrows that are identical, but travelling at different speeds, the faster one will drift less.

With two arrows of the same weight, and speed, but different diameters, the thinner one will drift less.

With two arrows of different weight, but same diameter and speed, the heavier one will drift less.

From those three fundamentals you should be able to work out most of what you need to know about drift.

:thumb:

Bottom line: To reduce drift, you want a thin, heavy, fast arrow ;)

[Welky]

That pretty much explains it, thanks heaps!!

[Eberbachl]

No trouble!

:thumb:

[CMB50]

Bottom line: To reduce drift, you want a thin, heavy, fast arrow ;)


Where do i buy these fast arrows? Do Beman make them?

I would otherwise suggest a thin, heavy arrow shot out of a fast bow. ;)

however, it depends on what game you are playing.....

[Eberbachl]

If they're shot out of a fast bow, they become fast arrows wiseguy :p

:thumb:

however, it depends on what game you are playing.....

Note, I said simply to reduce drift, those characteristics are desirable.

Depending on the game you're playing, you'll most likely make compromises, and select an arrow with quite specific attributes.

For target, I like thin, and heavy (think X10's, Navigators, Triples etc...my current target arrows are very thin, and weigh 382gn).

For indoor, I like thick and heavy (X7's - my current indoor X7's weigh 575gn).

For unmarked field, I like medium/thick, and light (I think of Lightspeeds, CXL 3D Selects etc...my 3D arrows typically weigh in at 300gn).

[wareagle]

:rofl: more,more.

[recurve boy]

If they're shot out of a fast bow, they become fast arrows wiseguy :p

:roll:

Obviously you buy thin heavy arrows and then paint red stripes down the sides.

[crosshairs]

Well, technically speaking it is possible for a faster arrow to drift more than a slower arrow given the same arrow weight and dimensions. How is this possible you ask, well.....

It's actually a measure of how much time the arrow spends in flight. The longer it stays, the more it is being exposed to wind, the more it gets affected.

To get a more detailed picture of this, ask your friendly neighbourhood sniper.

[crosshairs]

Also, if my theory is correct, given the same cross-wind component, the arrow drifts more if the air temperature is colder. But whatever instrument that was measuring the wind velocity is also subjected to the same effects of air temperature so this is purely academic, you miss, you still suck.

[Eberbachl]

Well, technically speaking it is possible for a faster arrow to drift more than a slower arrow given the same arrow weight and dimensions. How is this possible you ask, well.....

It's actually a measure of how much time the arrow spends in flight. The longer it stays, the more it is being exposed to wind, the more it gets affected.

To get a more detailed picture of this, ask your friendly neighbourhood sniper.

...you contradict yourself.

Firstly, you say the faster arrow drifts more (given the same weight and dimensions)...

it is possible for a faster arrow to drift more than a slower arrow given the same arrow weight and dimensions

...then you say the arrow exposed to the wind for longer (the slower one) will drift more.

It's actually a measure of how much time the arrow spends in flight. The longer it stays, the more it is being exposed to wind, the more it gets affected

:silly:

...as I said in the beginning...With two arrows that are identical, but travelling at different speeds, the faster one will drift less (it is exposed to the wind for a lesser amount of time).

:rolleyes:

[James Park]

Eberbachl captured it very well indeed.
If you want to calculate it, you could use "Accurate Sights" to do so (so long as you know their velocities). That is how I compare the wind drift for different arrows.

[The One]

Well, technically speaking it is possible for a faster arrow to drift more than a slower arrow given the same arrow weight and dimensions. How is this possible you ask, well.....

WRONG!!! :evil:

[Jay.G]

Well, technically speaking it is possible for a faster arrow to drift more than a slower arrow given the same arrow weight and dimensions. How is this possible you ask, well.....WRONG!!! :evil:

:rofl: Don't mess with engineers or they'll give you the evils :rofl:!! I think crosshairs' confusing himself. o yea 1000th post!!

[Eberbachl]

Yes, I agree - crosshairs is very confused.

[Progen]

I could sort him out right for you guys for a set of X10s. He's just a few kilometres from me. :D

Don't take that to mean that I know him though. Just that he seems to be pretty near, geographically.

Ok, Brocky, now's your turn. ;)

[Brocky]

Strange how you have the same neg rep as crosshairs :rolleyes:

[crosshairs]

Respect to one and all (well, most). I fully understand that I left the impression of a confused irrational dimwit. Having read postings from you gentlemen for the past 3 years or more, frankly speaking, I did not anticipate such scathing attacks, but the issue here is the truth, not how ugly the response to my contribution really get.

I must apologise I left out a couple of critical factor in the equation. Actually I chose to leave it out deliberately so we can have a constructive discussion about it and hopefully derive something new and interesting from it.

Speed X Time = Distance

To clarify a possible misunderstanding, my interpretation of "Wind drift" is the absolute deviation on the target surface, a measure of distance in a vertical 2 dimensional plane, somewhat aligned with the target surface.

Along with the above "common sense" equation, a further discussion about it can be found here

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/50calibre/wind_drift_density.htm

and here

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/joetapley/wind2.htm

So we can see, instead of giving arrow velocity all the attention, there are some of us out there who are willing to consider other factors.

[Sandy Hancock]

Well, technically speaking it is possible for a faster arrow to drift more than a slower arrow given the same arrow weight and dimensions. How is this possible you ask, well.....

It's actually a measure of how much time the arrow spends in flight. The longer it stays, the more it is being exposed to wind, the more it gets affected.

To get a more detailed picture of this, ask your friendly neighbourhood sniper.

I think you have crossed wires, crosshairs.
Fast arrow = *less* time in the air. If the dimensions are the same it must drift less.
If they are the same weight how can one be faster than the other if shot from the same bow??

[crosshairs]

I think you have crossed wires, crosshairs.
Fast arrow = *less* time in the air. If the dimensions are the same it must drift less.
If they are the same weight how can one be faster than the other if shot from the same bow??


Different SLOPE.

I dunno......sounds like you guys want to stab me or something.

[Marcus]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/joetapley/wind2.htm
Has been discredited here and on other forrums a number of times.

Sandy is spot on. 2 arrows can not be shot from the same bow at the same speed if they are different weights unless one has massive massive amounts of drag.

Thinner and heavier is better in the wind, and that holds true for all ballistics.

[Jay.G]

Man... no wonder you're crosshairs. I'm a 15 year old and had a damn fire-cracker explode in my pocket trying to get warm infront of the fire (tho this is when i was little) and even i know fast arrow means 'fast' = less time in air = less exposure to wind. Gees... Not a wonder people's been trying to stab your theory... maybe common sense (wtf is that?) would serve you better than any website.

[Progen]

So does that mean you only have half an arse now, Jay.G? :D :rofl: :D :silly: :thumb:


Different SLOPE.

Do you mean different trajectories? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Jay.G]

So does that mean you only have half an arse now, Jay.G? :D :rofl: :D :silly: :thumb:




Do you mean different trajectories? :confused: :confused: :confused:

:rofl:!!!! Concerned about my arse now progen? :rofl::silly:

[Progen]

Sure! You know what they say about half arsed people, don't you? :silly:

[crosshairs]

So does that mean you only have half an arse now, Jay.G? :D :rofl: :D :silly: :thumb:




Do you mean different trajectories? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Which would undoubtly be the result, yes.

[Eberbachl]

Which would undoubtly be the result, yes.

Different trajectories, or that Jay.G only has half an arse ?

:silly:

[Progen]

But we were talking about these all the time. ;)

With two arrows that are identical, but travelling at different speeds, the faster one will drift less.

With two arrows of the same weight, and speed, but different diameters, the thinner one will drift less.

With two arrows of different weight, but same diameter and speed, the heavier one will drift less.

From those three fundamentals you should be able to work out most of what you need to know about drift.

The heavier one will require a higher trajectory to reach the same distance from the same bow than the lighter one and also spend more time in the air, subjetting it to more of the wind's influence, but that also undoubtedly mean that the heavier arrow is the slower one in the first place.

Your turn, buddy. :confused: :confused: :confused:

[crosshairs]

Depends on your definition of an arse.

TO some of us, there is no such thing.Where do you draw the line between the arse and the thigh, or your lower back?

Back to your question, Yes, trajectory is the result of slope. Differing trajectories will mean differing flight paths, and when you measure them, the one with a positive upward slope to cover will result in a longer flight time than the one covering the negative downward slope.

Same arrow, same bow, same archer.

[crosshairs]

Just to clarify

Not all ranges are level. How would you know which is more level than the other?

[Progen]

A lot of black brothers are going to come down hard on you for saying there's no such thing as a butt. :D

Anyway, I might have confused you too well with my earlier BS post :D but you seem to be saying that green is green, an X is a 10 and that Jay.G only has half an arse. Where is your argument?

[crosshairs]

That there are many shades of green, and X is more than a 10 when you need it, but I am not concerned with which part of the anatomy Jay resembles.

[Brocky]

Sure! You know what they say about half arsed people, don't you? :silly:
Dont worry Jay.G its a malaysia thing. They seem to know about arses, male or female it does'nt matter. Hell they even know how to be arses.

[Progen]

Have you finished your ABCs yet, birdie boy? ;)

[Eberbachl]

The heavier one will require a higher trajectory to reach the same distance from the same bow than the lighter one and also spend more time in the air, subjetting it to more of the wind's influence, but that also undoubtedly mean that the heavier arrow is the slower one in the first place.



Dude, you don't seem to be reading.

If two arrows are the same thickness, and the SAME SPEED, the heavier one will drift less.

It's a hypothetical scenario. :silly:

It's all there in my first post. All you need to know.

;)

[Progen]

... my earlier BS post :D ...

Was to confuse him, Luke. I was going around in circles on that one. :D

Seems like it worked well enough to derail his train of thought.

[Eberbachl]

We used to have a guy called corsair here.

corsair....crosshairs...the names are very similar.

You're not related, are you?

:rofl:

:silly:

[Liam]

Is this guy assuming we're shooting a heavy arrow and a light arrow out of the same bow or something? :rofl:

[Progen]

Let's not wake him. I think his medication's taken effect. :behindsofa:

[dbjac]

We used to have a guy called corsair here.

corsair....crosshairs...the names are very similar.

You're not related, are you?

:rofl:

:silly:

:rofl: he was a d*ck.

[Sandy Hancock]

Different SLOPE

But I was referring to your scenario of two arrows of the same weight, shot from the same bow. Their launch speeds should be identical, gravity pulls just as hard on both, so except for drag (barrelling, diameter, fletching etc) their trajectories will be the same.

I dunno......sounds like you guys want to stab me or something.

Not me, I just want you to make some sense.

[Sandy Hancock]

Back to your question, Yes, trajectory is the result of slope. Differing trajectories will mean differing flight paths, and when you measure them, the one with a positive upward slope to cover will result in a longer flight time than the one covering the negative downward slope.

Same arrow, same bow, same archer.

If you change launch angle with the same arrow and bow, and still want to hit the target, you must be shooting a different distance. We all know an arrow drifts more over 90 metres than 5 metres.

If you want to change launch angle and still hit the same target with the same bow at the same distance, you need to change arrow mass to slow launch velocity and keep it in the air for longer.

It is very hard to follow what point you are trying to argue, but I think the question is whether a lighter arrow with a higher launch velocity will drift more or less than a heavier arrow over the same distance. The wind will affect the lighter arrow more while it is in flight, but as it is in flight for less time which is the more important factor?

I would be very surprised if Jim Park's modelling is not sufficiently detailed to provide the answer.

[Jean Lafitte]

Why did we spend three pages on crosshairs?

[recurve boy]

It is very hard to follow what point you are trying to argue, but I think the question is whether a lighter arrow with a higher launch velocity will drift more or less than a heavier arrow over the same distance. The wind will affect the lighter arrow more while it is in flight, but as it is in flight for less time which is the more important factor?

This argument is purely academic. There will be parameters for which the lighter arrow will win and some for which the heavier arrow will win. But you can't get your hands on the appropriate arrows to test. For available arrows, thin and heavy wins.

[reversehaven]

Seeing the kind of coaches we have in singapore (psst. not all are reliable. some mistake dacron strings for fastflite just becasue theyr'e black and not the usual readymade white.) it's not surprising to find the type of shooters he is in singapore.

In fact i have some friends who think they don't need to tune their plungers cuz they're skilled enough to act as plungers themselves O_O.

progen.. i probably live mere arrowflights away from him. i'll take him out :D

Hmm. crosshair.. i think you need to elaborate what you mean by slope. I know the ranges in singapore aren't perfectly level, neither is any single plot of land on earth( in fact, they're at least curved with a very large radius, if they appear to be perfectly flat)

Though there's one thing i still find a bit hazy. (it's nothing to do with what crosshair has been saying, but) well, you said heavy arrow is better for wind drift resistance. Then you all said faster arrow is better becasue it spends less time in the air. But there again, faster arrow needs to be lighter as well. i'm just wondering, how do i know where to strike the balance?

[crosshairs]

Why did we spend three pages on crosshairs?

Because you guys wanted to?

[crosshairs]

progen.. i probably live mere arrowflights away from him. i'll take him out :D

Hmm. crosshair.. i think you need to elaborate what you mean by slope. I know the ranges in singapore aren't perfectly level, neither is any single plot of land on earth( in fact, they're at least curved with a very large radius, if they appear to be perfectly flat)



You may have arrows, but you don't have the balls to. But for your benefit let's just say that you are not crazy enough to commit assault with a deadly weapon.

Anyway, yes the Earth is indeed curved. But that doesn't mean that there are no plots of land that are not as curved as the curvature of the earth. Having said that, the flatness of the land is actually not an issue........

Ok here's the thing. The horizon is defined as the perpendicular to the direction in which gravity acts. Using a reference position, presumably from the shooting line, using a reference height from which the arrow will be shot, a position in space for the target center can be established. Even then, it is not perfectly level.

Not even if the earth is a square cube. Because the lines of gravitational forces do not run in the same direction all around this cube.

The level range is a concept. It doesn't exist. But that doesn't mean we cannot base our measurements and calculations on this hypothetically flat range concept.

What I am trying to say is that some ranges have slopes so pronounced that they result in arrows grouping up to 1 foot in difference between them. And that is in nil wind condition. Imagine how a strong cross wind can further complicate the matter. Now if we were not consciously aware of the difference in trajectories, and the result of that difference is a more pronounced drift in the case of the upward sloping target, one might be inclined to under-compensate if he/she had been training at a downward sloping range, and vice versa, for the first few shots.

[Hannah]

Though there's one thing i still find a bit hazy. (it's nothing to do with what crosshair has been saying, but) well, you said heavy arrow is better for wind drift resistance. Then you all said faster arrow is better becasue it spends less time in the air. But there again, faster arrow needs to be lighter as well. i'm just wondering, how do i know where to strike the balance?

reversehaven, this is the balance that you must find...everything in archery is a balance, and this is just one more. As long as you are not underspined (which, as I understand it, is where the light/faster arrow bit comes from) then your next project is to find an arrow that flies as straight as possible, thus negating wind drift (but usually only to a small extent). IMO, equipment makes a difference, but your form needs to be good enough to be able to see that difference. This works with arrows also. That said, there will always be general guidelines/principles/recommendations that will work.

[Jay.G]

That there are many shades of green, and X is more than a 10 when you need it, but I am not concerned with which part of the anatomy Jay resembles.

wtf? Ha just negged you into plain red.:fist: I think You got your argument wrong there again... :silly:

[Progen]

...
Anyway, yes the Earth is indeed curved. But that doesn't mean that there are no plots of land that are not as curved as the curvature of the earth. Having said that, the flatness of the land is actually not an issue........

Ok here's the thing. The horizon is defined as the perpendicular to the direction in which gravity acts. Using a reference position, presumably from the shooting line, using a reference height from which the arrow will be shot, a position in space for the target center can be established. Even then, it is not perfectly level.

Not even if the earth is a square cube. Because the lines of gravitational forces do not run in the same direction all around this cube.

The level range is a concept. It doesn't exist. But that doesn't mean we cannot base our measurements and calculations on this hypothetically flat range concept.

What I am trying to say is that some ranges have slopes so pronounced that they result in arrows grouping up to 1 foot in difference between them. And that is in nil wind condition. Imagine how a strong cross wind can further complicate the matter. Now if we were not consciously aware of the difference in trajectories, and the result of that difference is a more pronounced drift in the case of the upward sloping target, one might be inclined to under-compensate if he/she had been training at a downward sloping range, and vice versa, for the first few shots.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??!!!?? :mad: :mad: :mad:

That's all pure rubbish and you're like tripping over yourself all the time trying to give yourself a mercy job down there. Even if I had booze plus some crack for good measure in my system, it still doesn't make sense.

ps. Please don't give him negative rep. He ain't with me. :D

[Jay.G]

Thought you wanted neg rep... Man your 'friend' there have serious issues I think its either he wants us to pay him some attention or he is trying to show how hardout he is in science, which is really weird because its just all waffle/junk/weird **** and if it was my teacher he'd rip his post in half if it was on a piece of paper... Dude at least put into plain english not all of us are that intellectually-adapt...

[Duss]

I have read most of the relevant posts :D and have found that for one archer who wanted to shoot in wind one should take into account the following factors :
- arrow weight
- arrow diameter
- arrow speed
- arrow FOC
- arrow fletching drag

1- With the same bow a heavier arrow will be slower.
2- Depending on the FOC and drag the trajectory will be variable in angle, thus affecting long distance velocity because of the incurred trajectory drift, thus reducing speed then wind drift is the more noticeable... and so on...

Due to the many factors it might be quite difficult to determinedly say that for example an ACE will be better than an X10. But those two certainly will be better than a larger-diameter carbon, aluminum or carbon/aluminum arrow

So we are drifting into a world of compromises...

In order to propel a heavier arrow fast enough one has to pull a lot of pounds. So, if one CAN pull that many pounds, one should benefit from using an X10 arrow, for example. But for other shooters who do not pull that much an ACE that would be short and with a good FOC could be just as efficient because t might run a wee bit faster. For example McKinney IIs would run very fast and have a very small diameter.

I have been shooting at 70 meters under heavy rain and winds with light and not-so-small carbon arrows and certainly was seeing the effects of the wind and the rain which were affecting less those who were shooting ACEs and X10s :eek:

[Archangel]

You may have arrows, but you don't have the balls to. But for your benefit let's just say that you are not crazy enough to commit assault with a deadly weapon.

Anyway, yes the Earth is indeed curved. But that doesn't mean that there are no plots of land that are not as curved as the curvature of the earth. Having said that, the flatness of the land is actually not an issue........

Ok here's the thing. The horizon is defined as the perpendicular to the direction in which gravity acts. Using a reference position, presumably from the shooting line, using a reference height from which the arrow will be shot, a position in space for the target center can be established. Even then, it is not perfectly level.

Not even if the earth is a square cube. Because the lines of gravitational forces do not run in the same direction all around this cube.

The level range is a concept. It doesn't exist. But that doesn't mean we cannot base our measurements and calculations on this hypothetically flat range concept.
Curvature of the earth means nothing over the ranges we shoot bows at.

What I am trying to say is that some ranges have slopes so pronounced that they result in arrows grouping up to 1 foot in difference between them.
The slope changes the position of your groups, not the size of them.

And that is in nil wind condition. Imagine how a strong cross wind can further complicate the matter.
Luckily a cross wind blows arrows from right to left (or vice versa), whereas slopes affect the height the arrows impact at - so it wouldn't really complicate things much.

Now if we were not consciously aware of the difference in trajectories
Luckily we are, because we're not complete muppets.

and the result of that difference is a more pronounced drift in the case of the upward sloping target
I might have missed your explanation of this earlier, but why? The trajectories are the same length, aren't they? Or if anything the upward sloping one is a little shorter, because the arrows go higher. Can't be bothered working it out, but I'm sure it can't be that significant.

one might be inclined to under-compensate if he/she had been training at a downward sloping range
Train on a level range, fixes the problem ;-)

[Jay.G]

:thumb: engineers...

[James Park]

:thumb: engineers...
... are just wonderfull !!

[Jay.G]

... pool of knowledge about everything...

[Duss]

... only depends on what you do with all that :p

[Archangel]

... are just wonderfull !!
Indeed they are!

[Marcus]

pffft, untill they accidently order a part of the wrong size and have the building/bridge/spacecraft fall apart.

[The One]

James, you should try factoring into your wind drift equations the fact that wind velocity is higher further away from the ground (with a bad assumption that the wind shear is laminar). See how much that complicates things :D

[burt666]

James, you should try factoring into your wind drift equations the fact that wind velocity is higher further away from the ground (with a bad assumption that the wind shear is laminar). See how much that complicates things :D

Too true! actually, considering the max. height an arrow goes during flight, i assume it'll be flying in the worst velocity change gradient...

[reversehaven]

reversehaven, this is the balance that you must find...everything in archery is a balance, and this is just one more. As long as you are not underspined (which, as I understand it, is where the light/faster arrow bit comes from) then your next project is to find an arrow that flies as straight as possible, thus negating wind drift (but usually only to a small extent). IMO, equipment makes a difference, but your form needs to be good enough to be able to see that difference. This works with arrows also. That said, there will always be general guidelines/principles/recommendations that will work.

hmm. would it be logical if, I say, that means i find arrows that are heavy as possible, but not to the extent where the weight ends up slowing the arrow speed down beyond a certain limit, and that the spine dimensions are as small as possible, and yet all at the same time, the arrows are not under or overspined?

if so then what is the optimum arrow velocity? I understand too slow and you get affected by wind... i'm not sure what really happens if the arrow is moving too fast.


ps. Please don't give him negative rep. He ain't with me.
don't worry buddy. he ain't with you. we all know it. i'll rep him slightly into the greens. :D:D okay... at least i tried. =X

pffft, untill they accidently order a part of the wrong size and have the building/bridge/spacecraft fall apart.well, that would consist of 0.0001% of all incidents, some of which, (like in the korean shopping mall disaster) engineers were under pressure from their employers to cut cost (and hence reduced the quality of the component/material). We ain't perfect yanno.

[GrahameA]

Hmmmm........

well, that would consist of 0.0001% of all incidents, some of which, (like in the korean shopping mall disaster) engineers were under pressure from their employers to cut cost (and hence reduced the quality of the component/material). We ain't perfect yanno.

My experience would suggest that the "poor/inappropriate design" rate is somewhat higher than that. Consider the 'recall rate' / 'early failure' in the motor industry.

But, what percentage are designed by people who "know" what they are doing.

Where designs are constrained by codes there are usually few issues - where they are not, well.......

The issue of '"quality" vs. cost is not new. And the issue of "Quality" is not well understood. It all depends on how you define quality and what you are after.

My favourite saying from another time - "There is more to Engineering than a computer".

[Eberbachl]

I think it's pretty hilarious that this thread, with such a simple question (which was answered in the second post) is still going 4 pages later!

:rofl:

:silly:

[Jay.G]

The beauty of forums :thumb: :p

[Marcus]

well, that would consist of 0.0001% of all incidents, some of which, (like in the korean shopping mall disaster) engineers were under pressure from their employers to cut cost (and hence reduced the quality of the component/material). We ain't perfect yanno.
Typical engineers. Always someone elses fault. :p

[Archangel]

well, that would consist of 0.0001% of all incidents, some of which, (like in the korean shopping mall disaster) engineers were under pressure from their employers to cut cost (and hence reduced the quality of the component/material). We ain't perfect yanno.
Maybe those engineers should have told their employers that they couldn't reduce the quality of the components without compromising safety. Not the easiest thing to do, and very easy to say with hindsight, but still...

[crosshairs]

Curvature of the earth means nothing over the ranges we shoot bows at.


The slope changes the position of your groups, not the size of them.


;-)

I was talking about the difference in position of the groupings on the two different targets, not their grouping size.

I cannot disagree entirely with you regarding the rest of the points made, because I do not know the degree of influence from this minute curvature on a short distance.

Again, I would like to stress, finding a level(enough) field is of engineering precision seldom employed in archery, and other outdoor shooting sports as far as I know.

[recurve boy]

I cannot disagree entirely with you regarding the rest of the points made, because I do not know the degree of influence from this minute curvature on a short distance.

Again, I would like to stress, finding a level(enough) field is of engineering precision seldom employed in archery, and other outdoor shooting sports as far as I know.

Completely negligible. Radius of the earth: 6,378, 150m. Longest distance of a FITA: 90m. Assuming earth is round, the angle of an arc 90m in length: 80.85x10-5 degrees.

Degreee of influence: 0.

[Jay.G]

I was talking about the difference in position of the groupings on the two different targets, not their grouping size.

I cannot disagree entirely with you regarding the rest of the points made, because I do not know the degree of influence from this minute curvature on a short distance.

Again, I would like to stress, finding a level(enough) field is of engineering precision seldom employed in archery, and other outdoor shooting sports as far as I know.

Do you ever get paranoid about the boogie man under your bed? :silly: seems you're over worrying with non-significant (if at all)-influential factors way too much.

[reversehaven]

I was talking about the difference in position of the groupings on the two different targets, not their grouping size.

I cannot disagree entirely with you regarding the rest of the points made, because I do not know the degree of influence from this minute curvature on a short distance.

Again, I would like to stress, finding a level(enough) field is of engineering precision seldom employed in archery, and other outdoor shooting sports as far as I know.

i'm sorry but hearing what you just said i don't suppose you are an engineer. Do you know how expensive it is to level a field to engineering precision?

Now the argument here is not that it's expensive and therefore we shouldn't do it. But there again, how effective will it be? is the cost justified?

if you level a field, your group POSITION changes, and not your group size.

that means, if you're TUNING your bow, you still CAN tune everything perfectly. and just in case you're wondering, the two sighter rounds in competition is meant just for this.

hence, it isn't justified to spend all that money just to have superbly level fields (or even moderately level) because simply speaking, you do'nt get ANY advantage in terms of tuning OR competing.

I think it's pretty hilarious that this thread, with such a simple question (which was answered in the second post) is still going 4 pages later!

well, you see, we're wasting it on talking about the all dubious land slope when we were orignally talking about wind drift and thickness of arrows and so on. i'm sure ya'll know what i mean, don't you?

Typical engineers. Always someone elses fault. Typical consumer. it's always the engineer's fault ;)
well, actually, it's God's fault. WE ARENT MADE PERFECTTT!! okay i mean were. Just not anymore.

[Progen]

Completely negligible. Radius of the earth: 6,378, 150m. Longest distance of a FITA: 90m. Assuming earth is round, the angle of an arc 90m in length: 80.85x10-5 degrees.

Degreee of influence: 0.

This makes absolute sense. :thumb:

[reversehaven]

Completely negligible. Radius of the earth: 6,378, 150m. Longest distance of a FITA: 90m. Assuming earth is round, the angle of an arc 90m in length: 80.85x10-5 degrees.

Degreee of influence: 0.
oh. i just noticed this..

you deserve some :thumb: rep for this.
(psst. i don't know how the HELL we got here though this thread is entitled wind drift.)

[Progen]

Perhaps he misread the topic as 'Mind drift'? :silly:

[Archangel]

I cannot disagree entirely with you regarding the rest of the points made, because I do not know the degree of influence from this minute curvature on a short distance.
Well recurve boy worked it out for us all, but I think it's pretty self-evident that it makes stuff all difference.

Again, I would like to stress, finding a level(enough) field is of engineering precision seldom employed in archery, and other outdoor shooting sports as far as I know.
No, finding a level enough field is done pretty commonly in archery. Finding a truly level field is basically never done, because again, it makes stuff all difference.
Seriously, you're worrying about things that are way in the distance on the far side of the decimal point.

[Duss]

This thread is a fabulous example of what drifting really is, in all the senses possible! :D

[reversehaven]

we call this the AF drift!!!