Teams' Matchplay

[The One]

Any ideas on how to run the Teams' Matchplay as something other than a "get yourselves into groups of 3" idea? It ran ok this year, but would be nice to see the event have a bit more prestige, like the State Teams Matchplay in Aussie.

[Clare Barnes]

Could you have a Canterbury vs Otago vs Waikato type event, similar to our RGB (state) one?

[Ali Bateman]

I thought it was kinda nice to have an event that was just fun.... nothing serious, just fun. Plus it allowed people to put themselves in teams with people they genuinely wanted to be in a team with, not who their club/district decided they would be with....

You're obviously going to get one or two teams that are near on impossible to beat, but i dont think anyone was too bothered about it this year... obviously i cant speak for the people on those teams, but it seemed to me that most of the other teams had a heck of a lot more fun than they did .... at least i know i did!

[The One]

That's part of the problem though - too many people in NZ think matchplay is "just for fun" due to the way it was introduced initially. Hopefully having fun events at the conclusion of shooting each event should take the place of that. I think it would be of benefit for NZ's top shooters to have more experience shooting in a serious teams' matchplay environment.

[burt666]

Could you have a Canterbury vs Otago vs Waikato type event, similar to our RGB (state) one?

I think it's a nice idea... it maybe even be taken done to club team... so it would be something to be sorted when entering the whole tournament, not "on the spot"

but as i said before, with Auckland representing 1/4 of the population (and maybe of the archers, but I've got no statistics about that...), some club/province will need to go through some kind of selection first, contrary to some which might struggle to present a team

That's part of the problem though - too many people in NZ think matchplay is "just for fun" due to the way it was introduced initially.

Maybe if we get to create a nice shiny very official-looking-type trophy dedicated for that event, it would turn the whole thing into a much more serious event over the years?!?

[Clare Barnes]

AA now (as from 2006) retains records for the RGB (state) team and the overall teams for the Nats events, though all team members must be AA members.

There is only one gold medal awarded per category but this way there is still recognition for state teams as well as teams that could in effect be compiled from the top 3 compounders etc.

I like that a team of archers who do not make the RGB team could possibly still beat the official RGB team they did not qualify for! ;)

[The One]

Maybe if we get to create a nice shiny very official-looking-type trophy dedicated for that event, it would turn the whole thing into a much more serious event over the years?!?

It'll never be very serious as long as compounds and recurves are on a different footing, and as a free-for-all when the top compounders can stack the teams.

[The One]

Options 2-4 all include separate compound and recurve divisions to provide parity. With 3 athletes in each team, there is little opportunity for combining recurves and compounds on an equal basis, so I believe they must be kept separate. Also, there would be insufficient Women

[Archangel]

It may be worth mentioning at this point that we have put some thought into the Nationals timetable for next year, which we'll need to discuss with the organising committee (also known as "the victims").

There's a fair chance that there may not be a teams matchplay next year. The timetable is too full as it is; the members keep wanting more events added, apparently at the expense of the AGM, which is more important to Archery NZ than a teams matchplay.

Ultimately this will depend on the calendar and what the organisers want/have time to do.

[Jay.G]

Mmm I just want to shoot... But yea I wouldn't mind the team's matchplay to have some more prestige, I like option 'district'.:thumb:

[burt666]

It'll never be very serious as long as compounds and recurves are on a different footing, and as a free-for-all when the top compounders can stack the teams.

Splitting recurve and compound was indeed in situ... considering the options you presented, I'm shared in between the district and the club option.. or you can perhaps do both? one official district team, and them then each club may be allowed to present one team (in the different categories :thumb: ) if it can?

[The One]

There's a fair chance that there may not be a teams matchplay next year.

This I am strongly against. As you are well aware, when the teams' matchplay was dropped a few years ago, it was the archers that put a motion to the AGM to ensure that it would continue as an event at the Nationals. I don't see how this has changed since then, and to drop the teams' matchplay would be to fly against the wishes of the members of ANZ.

[Archangel]

This I am strongly against. As you are well aware, when the teams' matchplay was dropped a few years ago, it was the archers that put a motion to the AGM to ensure that it would continue as an event at the Nationals. I don't see how this has changed since then, and to drop the teams' matchplay would be to fly against the wishes of the members of ANZ.
This would be the same archers that failed to attend the AGM this year, who mostly blamed the teams matchplay for running too late, yes?

[The One]

This would be the same archers that failed to attend the AGM this year, who mostly blamed the teams matchplay for running too late, yes?

I was there. A number of others also - our numbers, while reduced, was not disturbingly different from last year (where we only got a quorum by two!). Also, the fact that the matchplay ran so late was due to an extra round being shot due to an error in the match draws. Extending the Nationals by one day back to the time-frame we used to have would likely get more people to the AGM. With so many meetings crammed into one less day, it only makes it harder on numbers attending.

[User-Name]

Look, New Zealand does not have the numbers to hold an overly serious teams event, and i think the whole splitting up into area teams idea is daft simply because most of the archers that attend out nationals are from auckland and itd be like playing the Crusaders against the 2nd 15 from Gore, its just not gunna work, i say hold it in bow classes no regards to gender and let the people choose their own team it will make the event inclusive and also more fair for those taking part, if im shooting a teams matchplay at the nationals id like to be able to choose who i want in my team becuase it makes it more fun if the people who are depending on you have the option of not havting to. If i wanted to loose because of the team id still be playing soccer. With the right people loosing can be fun tho.

[wysper]

Sorry for the Noob question.
Just been surfing round trying to find matchplay rules, anyone have a link to them? I don't even know how golf matchplay works :)

I have downloaded some rules from the NZA site but they aren't helping in this case.

thanks
Greg

[puddin]

i think that the teams mathplay should still be included and if that means making the nationals a day longer to fit everything in then so be it. i for one am sorry to say i didnt attend the agm as i was vomiting rather lots that afternoon.

[victoria.b NZ]

That's part of the problem though - too many people in NZ think matchplay is "just for fun" due to the way it was introduced initially. Hopefully having fun events at the conclusion of shooting each event should take the place of that. I think it would be of benefit for NZ's top shooters to have more experience shooting in a serious teams' matchplay environment.

well then can't the top shooters get in hard out teams and take it seriously and every-one else who wants to "just have fun" can lol :D

I don't really like the whole District idear as people have said Auckland is like where most of the shooters are so if you're from, a really small club like me you wouldn't be able to get a team together :)

but we shouldn't drop teams matchplay that would be so stupid :D

[The One]

well then can't the top shooters get in hard out teams and take it seriously and every-one else who wants to "just have fun" can lol :D

I don't really like the whole District idear as people have said Auckland is like where most of the shooters are so if you're from, a really small club like me you wouldn't be able to get a team together :)

but we shouldn't drop teams matchplay that would be so stupid :D

Because if half the teams are in the event "just to have fun", then it will devalue the event and it will hold no reputation.

Remember, the district idea involves all clubs from that district for the selection of a team, not just your club, so it doesn't matter if you're from a small club.

i say hold it in bow classes no regards to gender and let the people choose their own team it will make the event inclusive and also more fair for those taking part

Inclusive, yes, fair, no. Stacking will happen, and the event will be pointless when nothing is up for stake. You don't turn up to the World Champs and throw some teams together with mates from overseas "just cos it would be fun". If you want to start taking teams matchplay seriously overseas, we need to start taking it seriously within NZ.

[victoria.b NZ]

true true :D

.........but we are the only club in our District hahaha :)

[victoria.b NZ]

never mind lol I just realized that we are included in the wellington district lol my bad hahaha guess that wouldn't be too bad then :)

[The One]

true true :D

.........but we are the only club in our District hahaha :)

Really? I thought New Plymouth was part of the WAA?

[victoria.b NZ]

we are i just realized :D hehe my bad

[puddin]

if the districts idea goes ahead i think that each area should be able to have 2-3 teams as there are that many archers in the auckalnd and welly regions that would want to be in it.

[burt666]

if the districts idea goes ahead i think that each area should be able to have 2-3 teams as there are that many archers in the auckland and welly regions that would want to be in it.


yeah, but if you want it to be more serious than the actual "lets get 3 mates randomly together and to this" sort of thing, presenting 2-3 per district might lead to this again in less populated district.

Or you are allowed to a number of team in ratio with the amount of archer in your district... dunno

I agree as well a selection process would give more value to the event.

After all, out club runs an internal selection for the Ryan and Fraser shield teams.

[User-Name]

The teams event at the NZ nats is never going to be taken seriously or have any standing as most of the people competing in it are at totaly different levels to each other, some who have been around for ages and know whats going on and others that are at the nationals for the 1st time and have never been part of a teams matchplay, as a learning experience the teams is a good thing but it as an event i dont think with ever have anything up for stake, i think it should either be treated as an event held for fun and the experience or scrapped completely.

If im not at an international event and get thrown in a team i cannot have fun with im not going to shoot as well as i would, but i wont take it seriously if that happens, oh wait i dont anyway, screw it, run it how ever you see fit, it will never be an event of great standing at the NZ nats.

[The One]

The teams event at the NZ nats is never going to be taken seriously or have any standing as most of the people competing in it are at totaly different levels to each other, some who have been around for ages and know whats going on and others that are at the nationals for the 1st time and have never been part of a teams matchplay, as a learning experience the teams is a good thing but it as an event i dont think with ever have anything up for stake, i think it should either be treated as an event held for fun and the experience or scrapped completely.

If im not at an international event and get thrown in a team i cannot have fun with im not going to shoot as well as i would, but i wont take it seriously if that happens, oh wait i dont anyway, screw it, run it how ever you see fit, it will never be an event of great standing at the NZ nats.

Then don't shoot in it... It will never be taken seriously if people just dick around in it.

[User-Name]

Oh ill shoot it, but only because it gives me a time to shoot the number under the target.

[User-Name]

Stacking occurs in all sports its the nature of games, in all sports players are put into teams depending on how good they, players are taken from other clubs or countries to make a team stronger and give them a better chance of winning, you can try stop stacking in the teams matchplay by selecting the teams for people but i don't think this is the best option, freedom of choice goes a long way and its only natural to want to be a team that is going to be better than the competition, this pushes the people who want to be in the top team to pull there finger out and do all they can to get into it (training lots and hard work normally works best), you can complain all you want about stacking but you cant stop it without taking away the peoples ability to choose which can get sorta ugly - face it people hate loosing because of the team, i do and if i didn't id still be playing soccer.

also the top archers may decide not to shoot the event or may choose to be in a team with people they enjoy shooting with instead of going with the people that give them the best chance of winning.

[The One]

When people are representing districts, the teams are less likely to be overtly stacked. If that is still so, then the district that wins deserves to win. Before people complain that there are lots of archers in Auckland, the Auckland District represents about 1/4 of the population of NZ, and there are 4 main district associations - if there are number discrepancies, other clubs/districts should ascertain why and do something about it.

User-Name, if you are representing NZ in a Team Matchplay, and the team has a lower chance of winning than the other team, I'd like to think you'd reevaluate your mindset...

[The One]

also the top archers may decide not to shoot the event or may choose to be in a team with people they enjoy shooting with instead of going with the people that give them the best chance of winning.

I would expect that most top archers would jump at the chance of representing their region. Representing something means a lot to competitive sports people in general. If they choose not to shoot it, then that's their district's loss.

[User-Name]

But what if the archer doesn't want to be in a team with people from their own region? at an event over seas i will always try and shoot my best. i do anyway, but when up against unfair competition (better or worse) i don't quite see the point in taking it so seriously it stops being fun and don't particularly wont to be stuck with people that do. i like the whole being able to choose thing because if i choose who i want to be with and loose because of the team its better than loosing because of a team i was put into by someone else.

[hoyt for life 2]

yes but we can't base all our decisions on your opinions, we have to see what the majority of ANZ (or membsers who go to the agm) want.

[User-Name]

And thats fair enough but i can express my opinions as much as i like and i will do so.

I think the best way is :
No regards to gender
Seperate Compound and Recurve
Let the archers choose their teams