Spin wings

[James Park]

Mike seems to be doing a good job of converting Victorian compounders to spin wings. In the past week it seems that Zoe, Bryce and Bernie have all swapped.

[Vic]

Yes, but do they really work? I still haven't seen proof anywhere that they are an advantage. Is it one of those things that works in the mind enabling a better shot?

Vic

[James Park]

My testing suggests that they are not better.

[Zoe]

Jim, did your testing suggest that regular fletches were not better than Spin Wings? A Yes or No will suffice.
(just that your statement's classically ambiguous - Aarleks would love it!)

Spin wings: a gift to the lazy!

[mike]

I deserve a sponsorship for that sort of mass defection!!

You need to add Tori to the list, although he saw the light a long time ago!

They're all gullible, I think I'll go back to normal fletches now!


Seriously, I think Clint may have had just a little more to do with their popularity than anyone else, but I'll take all the fame and glory -- someone has to do it I suppose!! :wink:

I'll confess to largely using them because they are so easy! (I wonder if Clint will 'fess up to this too!!!)

I can tell the ones who converted due to Clint because he has that tricky way of putting them on an folding them back, and his desciples do too.

I've tried that way and found that firstly it doesn't help keep them on and secondly it is a pain in the arse to do, so I just do it like the packet says -- increasing the laziness value of the things!

The other thing was that I got my last batch at $20 for 5 packets (50 to a packet), so that encouraged me to keep using them!

[Aarleks]

mmmm..... Classically ambiguous.... (drools) :lol: :lol:

[James Park]

Zoe: "yes"

My testing showed no advantage from spin wings (I did side by side testing using two sets of new X10's at distances from 50M to 90M). If I had found an advantage I would be using them.

[Marcus]

Erika is using them again too. She got a second hand set off Glen Bourne that came with spin wings and being the ultimate in lazy she kept them on and shot a few competition PB's.
Last night we redid them with Kurly Vanes. Beware though, they hurt the eyes!

Ironically she shot her old X10's last week at the club with Easton vanes and shot a 1340 so I agree with Jim, they don't improve scores.

[Vic]

But they do look cool and that's a fact. The range of colours is also impressive. If only they made regular fletches in those colours.

I also liked the clean method of attachment. Always the weak point of my arrow building.

Vic

[Freeman]

The reason why I used them
a)They are lighter than normal fletches
b)Quick and easy to fletch
c)I was getting them for nothing

I have been using them since 1993 and thought with the way I was shooting, why change.

I am playing with flex fletches at the moment though........you may be right Jim, they do group better :D :D

[Marcus]

Well I've been shooting with my current arrows for 3 weeks no issue and today on the first end of teh shooting end they all bloody fell off!! one end at a time!! I thin I will try Spin wings again after that, sick of glue issues!

Erika put on Kurly vanes today and 5 are ruined from shooting. I think spinnies are more reliable and tougher, any other thoughts on that?

Oh yeah, and I want to shoot like Zoe! She kicked butt today!

[Clare Barnes]

David used Kurly Vanes once - as in one shoot. :o Although the color choice was much better they creased and tore too easily. It was back to Spin Wings the next day.........

[Frite]

It's good or not

I have Kspin but I wait
http://www.archers-mirefleurs.net/upload/PUB/Flonite-Vane.jpg

[James Park]

I had a careful look at Bryce's set-up today. With the spin wings he has been getting contact with his launcher and is having to run a much higher nocking point than with the normal fletches.

[Oldtimer]

I tried Kurly vanes some years ago. The initial impression was not good, as the colour came off on my fingers while I was fletching, and this may have caused some bias against them. Went back to Spin-wings and much prefer them.

[James Park]

I have a suspicion that many recurvers use spin wings simply because other recurvers use them. How many have done side-by-side comparisons? (I have, for both recurve and compound).

[grantwomack]

I have had no problems with Kurly Vanes. I have been shooting with them since I started archery and found them to be much more resilient to tearing than Spin Wings (I have a set with Spin Wings as well). But then again, the Spin Wings I have are quite a few years old so maybe they have improved their manufacturing procedure so make them less prone to tearing.

With regards to straight fletches compared to twisted ones, a friend of mine shot with flex-fletch for many years and his scores reached a point but stopped. When he finally got around to spin-wings, his scores went up and his grouping at 50 yards was unbelievable, even if it was in the blue. But maybe he just wasn't fletching his flex-fletch correctly.

[Oldtimer]

I've never done side-by-side testing of different fletches. Used flex-fletch for years on X7s, but preferred spin-wings (smaller - I use 1 9/16", and lighter) when I started using carbons. I have quite a high anchor and a short jaw-eye distance, so every little helped. However, my favourite fletch was the old Flonite. They were very noisy, but were very easily damaged and so required too much maintenance. These days I refletch my arrows once a year, even if they don't need it :lol: , about 6 weeks before the nationals - very low maintenance.

What were the results of your side-by-side testing ?

[James Park]

My side-by-side testing showed no advantage either way. I shot about 100 shots with each type fletching, using new X10's, alternating the fletch types to avoid bias. I was especially interested to see if the groups were smaller or the wind drift less with one fletch type compared to the other, but could see no significant differences either way. It was easier to get fletch clearance with normal vanes, and they were less prone to damage.
It is worth remembering that this testing was done with long and heavy arrows, so whether or not the results translate to short and light arrows I cannot say.
Suffice to say that for me the normal fletches seem the better bet, especially considering the tight groups we get with compounds and the potential for damaging spin wings. As I noted in an earlier post, had the spin wings been obviously better, I would now be using them, but they were not.

[mike]

It seems that it was a very succesful day for spin-wings (and their variants Kurly Vanes) at the Vic State Short Range Champs.

Ladies compound 1st and 2nd,
Mens compound 1st and 4th.

Marcus, perhaps you should do a "Team Spin-Wing" and see how they go against all these other teams that people keep coming up with!

Jim, the writing's on the wall, you know deep in you heart that they will give you an advantage in the long run. Don't let yourself be sucked in by one testing result!! Come and join the darks side. :P

[Zoe]

Mike (you beat me to it), I agree I think Jim's missed the boat on this one.
Unfortunately Jim, it's nigh on impossible to set up your testing in a way that avoids sub-conscious bias. You were sub-consciously hoping to find no advantage in the spin-wings, which manifested itself into slightly errant shooting each time a spinnie was on the rest. Self-fulfilling prophecy. Don't feel too bad, it could happen to anyone.

C'mon Jim, you know you want to, we promise not to say we told you so.

the potential for damaging spin wings
perhaps you did not stick them on correctly :P

[Marcus]

Team Spin wing:
Bryce Lee
Zoe Leviston
Erika Anear
Bernie Andrews

4574

Team Normal Vanes
Jim Park
Marcel Verstegen
Trevor Weston
Rachael Pye

4583

Note if we swap Leigh for Rachael Team Normal wins with 4625

No matter which way you look at it, Team Spin Wing couldn't do it.

However, if you take placing as stated by Mike and award points based on
1st 4points
2nd 3points
3rd 2points
4th 1points
then Spin wings win 12 points to 8

We need to get Dave Barnes to do some testing for us on the recurve side.

[Flehrad]

A few guys at Sydney Uni got Kurly's with their new arrows, and we've discovered that paper vanes (dayglow orange, pink, green) tear really easily, and under a month, our top recurve shooter has gone through his only packet (50 vanes) because they were tearing on his spigarelli stick on rest. However, the holographic vanes (hawaiian gold, purple) survive extremely well, after being shot continuously through strammit, grass, hessian(sp?), and we think that it is because the holographics have a extra plastic coating that stops tearing, and makes them tougher against folding.

But we've found that even using lining tape, the vanes still stick to each other in quivers or storage! How would we prevent that?

[mike]

Never used Kurly vanes, but if you're having all those problems try good old original Spin Wings.

Zoe and Myself are currently using white 2 inch spin wings from a packet that is about 8 years old! They work perfectly well, survive well and we don't have any problems with fletches sticking to the tape on another arrow -- the glue/tape that spin wings use goes non sticky if not stuck b/w the fletch and the shaft -- it gets dust etc on it.


Some people, like Clint put them on backwards then fold them over, apparently this helps with their user-friendliness too, although I don't think it gives any advantage at all, having tried it both ways. I just use a thin strip of black electrical tape around the front and back of the fletch. Works fine.

They really are a hell of a lot more user-friendly than normal plastic fletches I think.

[grantwomack]

Flehrad - I do two things to stop the fletches sticking to the sticky strip. First I cut them in half lengthways. There is still more than enough space for the fletchings to stick to and the pack of adhesive lasts twice as long. Secondly, after they are all fletched and ready to go, I sprinkle a little talc onto them. It might add 1/4 grain to each arrow but it stops them sticking together and tearing...

A much cheaper alternative to the Altservices tape is if you go to any car shop, you can get the "go-fast" stripes for the side of your car. They come in very thin rolls of about 10m, are available in all sorts of colours and cost about half the price. But you can't stretch it when taping down the end of your fletchings otherwise it peels away. :turn-l:

[StevenB]

shot spin wings with recurve and I will now be using them with compound.

One reason I first used them was cause they were easier/less time consuming to put on my arrows.

I first started shooting spinwings when I was 16 so I didn't do any comparison to the normal fletches but my scores did improve when I was shooting the spin wing arrows.

When I got the deviator I was shooting an old set of ACE 470's with 115gr points and half of them had blue spinwings the other half had plastifletches on them. the Spin wing arrows would always group a bit higher and a little bit tighter than the others.

as for clearance well, lets just say that I havent exactly tuned my bow much past center shot(I'm a bit lazy)

[recurve boy]

..... I just use a thin strip of black electrical tape around the front and back of the fletch. Works fine.


You don't even need lining tape! I've seen people not use tape at all and it works fine. Half your fletching time!

[Jolly Archer]

I have a suspicion that many recurvers use spin wings simply because other recurvers use them.

I think this is a reason why I shoot them! If you look at international archers (outdoors) pretty much all of them use spins.

I have shot both normal and spins, but couldn't tell much of a difference, so I just went with what the professionals are using (and because I get given them)!

Have any 1300 (recurve) shooters got an opinion on them?

[James Park]

I shot 1324 (recurve) with normal vanes.

[StevenB]

I now know what it feels like to shoot a mathews :lol:


You don't even need lining tape! I've seen people not use tape at all and it works fine. Half your fletching time!

you might not need the tape but it is good insurance

[mike]

Jim:

Normal vanes = heavy and messy!!

Convert yourself to the way of the spinwing before it is too late!!

:D

[James Park]

But Mike, heavy is good = less drift.

[Marcus]

Well I put some on the other day and they are working well. Using with a shoot over rest with no contact.
Grouped well at 50m on a small face so I think they will be fine. Best part is none fell off.
:D

[Zoe]

1384 with spin-wings today Jim? Impressive :o

[James Park]

Zoe,
Added up the damage when I got home after my FITA: 6 SpinWings and 1 nock. I have, however, scored higher with normal vanes!!

[robbo]

1384.... :o

[Legolas]

1384.... :o :o

[Marcus]

Bloody nice Jim!

I think I'll take mine off. I can not get the arrows to clear consistantly with the X10' due to the smaller arrow size. Today my best groups at 50m were the size of the 8 ring, yet indoor with Alloys shot 295 last night (so it's not that I completly suck!)
Frustrating.

[James Park]

Frustrating first end: six nines, all just missed the ten ring.

[CMB50]

1384 :o

Sounds like the conditions at Sherbrooke yesterday were as nice as they were at DVA

[DrRalph]

I've tried plastifletch, and flex fletch 'normal' vanes and spinnies (yellow) and kurlies (most recently).

Of the normal vanes, the flex fletch vanes were the most durable and accurate (ie all flat and weigh the same). Once glued on with fletchtite they stayed put for 6 months before one finally came off after a shoot through on a softer stramat. 3 FF175 vanes weigh 9.96 gr (on average over 20).

Last year I tried spinnies, but had clearance problems with my W&W magnetic flipper. Recently I wanted to increase the FOC of my arrows a little, but didn't want to increase my already heavy 340gr triples. So I've tried kurly vanes this week. I took off 13.9 gr of flexfletch plus coloured wrap, and replaced them with 2.9gr of kurlies (orange dayglow) and fixings (tape and adhesive). Then I added 10 gr to the front with new tips, keeping the overall arrow weight the about the same.

I had one kurly shred because I hadn't set up the nocks properly, but after rotating the nocks a little I've shot 100-200 arrows since then with no further serious damage. One shoot through wrinkled the kurlies on one arrow, but I smoothed them out and they recovered. I'm happier with my new arrow balance, and I can't tell if my better groups are the Kurlies or the better arrow balance (FOC = 11 percent now) and tunability... I haven't lost any speed from the greater forward drag, I guess the lightening of the arrows compensated.

I'll stick with the kurlies for a few more months and make a decision at the end of the year I guess. For me it is between durable heavier FlexFletch and the more convenient and lighter kurlies, I feel the more tightly wound spinnies might cause more clearance problems with my particular magnetic wraparound rest setup.

[Dave Barnes]

Has any one in Ausland tried the X-wings or X-vanes, made by Sitar or his dad or something in Slovenija??? Have seen them, they just look like a very very stiff spin wing.

Or even the Flownite (??) vanes. Pictured below.
http://www.archery-forum.com/4sale/20030821222304.jpg
http://www.archery-forum.com/4sale/20030821222338.jpg

Notice the 3 other little bits between the main ones. Just seeing if anyone has experimented with either of these and what they thought of them??

See ya

[Tony Pearce]

Dave,

the little wings are for putting in the clamp of a fletching jig. The vanes are very fragile and get torn or bent very easily

Tony

[archerypark]

Agree with Tony..tried them once.They are extremely brittle and I damaged at least one vane on every arrow after only onne indoor event. Gave what I had left over to Bob Welden..He had the same experience..would not bother buying them again

[Marcus]

Ray Morgan tried them at our club too and found the same.

I'm keen to try the one's Sitar makes, meaning to get some in.

[grantwomack]

A guy I was shooting on the same target with at SQAS state champs was using Flonite. He had two dozen arrows all ready to go at the start of the day. By the mid-way break, he was already refletching the arrows he had left. I thought maybe it was that his arrows were too stiff for the bow and the vanes were hitting the button on the way out but if this is the same case for a lot of people, it makes a little more sense.

[Dave Barnes]

Jang Yong Ho uses them along with some other koreans, so maybe replacing them would be worth it to shoot 337 at 90????

[Marcus]

Is it worth it to finish out of the medals though? ;)

[Dave Barnes]

Haha true, but i still wouldn't mind shooting 337 at 90, or a 177 18 arrow matchplay. :D

[tj]

The only problem I found with spin-wings is that when put on normally they cause TOO MUCH rotation on carbon arrows forcing you to increase the FOC to dampen out the wobble.

They advertise that the curl stabilizes poor releases but at 220 FPS and over the initial momentum wont allow rotation for nearly 5 metres and by then the trajactory has been set.

Having said that I have had great success with spin-wings when attached on a negative angle. ie. put on in such a way that when viewed from the nock end they appear straight with no side profile to create drag.

Please note; air passing through a curve (created by the spin-wing shape) will naturally cause a vacuum and this will create a natural rotation rather than a forced rotation (drag) and your groups at 90 metres will improve because of less downrange instability.

My suggestion is that you try 3 arrows with your set and see what results you get.