Moved 3D posts

[Marcus]

And their BS bino rule too I bet. :rolleyes:

[Robert43]

And their BS bino rule too I bet. :rolleyes:
yes very true

[violator]

thats the joy about it, its much harder, but its still fun, anyone shot a 400 on it yet?

[Marcus]

See I won't play ABA till they change their rules on scoping the target first.
The current rule is favourtism towards those who play ABA alot and know where the score zones are. Totally unfair on those playing for their first time.
FITA, IFAA, 3DAAA someone playing for the first time has as much chance as anyone else, but not in ABA.

[DanceswithDingoes]

How is it harder when you only lose 20% for a body shot and 3DAAA you lose 50%? Its only harder if you are female/shoot a recurve or longbow/shoot barebow. :rolleyes:

[violator]

See I won't play ABA till they change their rules on scoping the target first.
The current rule is favourtism towards those who play ABA alot and know where the score zones are. Totally unfair on those playing for their first time.
FITA, IFAA, 3DAAA someone playing for the first time has as much chance as anyone else, but not in ABA.

we all had to start some where

[violator]

How is it harder when you only lose 20% for a body shot and 3DAAA you lose 50%? Its only harder if you are female/shoot a recurve or longbow/shoot barebow. :rolleyes:


im not going on score, just the fact that you are not aloud to glass the target first, so you dont get the chance to see what/where you have to hit

[gazzwah]

sooky la las...................................... now that we've had a cry and a winge and a sook ........ it,s all about having fun .. hell i go to the 3d aaa shoots no binos shoot mbf but i have fun........ you all got it way too easy... and some of you take soooooooooooo long to take a shot and look at the beast several times before the shot and then again after you hit the target... can't you wait five mins then walk down when everybody else has shot and look at what you got.. cos it won,t change at all.:eek:

[Eddie C]

See I won't play ABA till they change their rules on scoping the target first.
The current rule is favourtism towards those who play ABA alot and know where the score zones are. Totally unfair on those playing for their first time.
FITA, IFAA, 3DAAA someone playing for the first time has as much chance as anyone else, but not in ABA.
True that.

[violator]

sooky la las...................................... now that we've had a cry and a winge and a sook ........ it,s all about having fun .. hell i go to the 3d aaa shoots no binos shoot mbf but i have fun........ you all got it way too easy... and some of you take soooooooooooo long to take a shot and look at the beast several times before the shot and then again after you hit the target... can't you wait five mins then walk down when everybody else has shot and look at what you got.. cos it won,t change at all.:eek:


coudnt have said it better.

[Mark Elliott]

thats the joy about it, its much harder, but its still fun, anyone shot a 400 on it yet?
yes it has been done, and i agree with marcus the bino bulls**t that aba carry on with is crap. The eleven ring in aaa makes it a lot better

[gazzwah]

most of you guys have been shooting for years and know the differance between a Mckenzie target and a cabelas, and who ever else makes 3-d targets and you all probably know where the sweet spot oh sorry the highest scoring spot on the target is anyway...........my god lads take a step back and breath a bit more......... enjoy archery for wat it is have fun have a laugh :thumb:

[DanceswithDingoes]

sooky la las...................................... now that we've had a cry and a winge and a sook ........ it,s all about having fun .. hell i go to the 3d aaa shoots no binos shoot mbf but i have fun........ you all got it way too easy... and some of you take soooooooooooo long to take a shot and look at the beast several times before the shot and then again after you hit the target... can't you wait five mins then walk down when everybody else has shot and look at what you got.. cos it won,t change at all.:eek:
You have the makings of a fine Longbower..........

[Eddie C]

yes it has been done, and i agree with marcus the bino bulls**t that aba carry on with is crap. The eleven ring in aaa makes it a lot better
I actually dont like the new 11 ring rule. Its hard enough trying to get a good score out of 500 now its out of 550! I doubt very much theres gunna be any perfect 110 out of 110 rounds shot.

[Marcus]

Why should your idea of fun be the same as mine?
I get far more enjoyment hitting the middle than firing arrows aimlessly.
You are assuming that because I take my shooting seriously, I am not either having fun or enjoying it.

most of you guys have been shooting for years and know the differance between a Mckenzie target and a cabelas, and who ever else makes 3-d targets and you all probably know where the sweet spot oh sorry the highest scoring spot on the target is anyway...........my god lads take a step back and breath a bit more......... enjoy archery for wat it is have fun have a laugh :thumb:

[gazzwah]

well for insatance we are both doing archery.... ( the same) and also i don,t shoot aimlesly as you sugest .i have a sight on my bow.....i bet you have to have an aid to shoot you bow properly ????????? and i will also bet you have suffered from target panic ?

[Marcus]

And your point is??

[gazzwah]

my point is .... their are some archers out there that take it way too seriously and that is unhealthy . and to not shoot a differant code because of a bino rule is childish to say the least.. we all know or have a very good idea where to shoot a 3-d target .all this b/s about aba and aaa is irrelevant to me i am a member of both and enjoy shooting both , i do it for the pure pleasure and enjoyment and meeting other people having a laugh and hanging a bit of s,.it if you don,t shoot with fingers or the same bow as me..al this crap about aba and aaa is just that .and if we the archers want more from this sport we love so dearly then we should shoot both disaplines....:thumb:

[Marcus]

Who said anything about aba vs aaa?
I have not shot ABA for decades because of the bino rule, and the new faces make it even mre annoying. I couldn't give a crap about ABA vs 3DAAA vs AA I play the games that are structured the best.
The fact is this. ABA want me to guess where the score zones are and I am not prepared to do that based on the reasons I gave. Deal with it.
I am not a 3DAAA member BTW. Nor did I say one was better than the other, simply that I think the no bino rule is unfair and discourages me from participating.

their are some archers out there that take it way too seriously and that is unhealthy
You have no idea what is healthy for me or not. You don't live inside my head. Structure, fairplay and adherence to the rules is what is healthy for me. Wishy washy BS is very unhealthy for me. ABA's no bino rule is wishy washy and illogcal and that doesn't gel with me.
I enjoy serious competition in everything I do. I don't like playing all holds bar basketball, has to be to a format with rules. I don't even like shooting arrows at novelty targets. You may love it, but I don't.

[violator]

i have come to the conclusion that it does not matter what you say on this site, everyone else is better than you, its starting to be abit of a drag actually , we are here to share our views of the sport and all we seem to get is put downs. who cares about what style offers what each archer for the own, if i like aba who cares??? we are all doing this sport for a reason are we not??? ENJOYMENT!!............. So come one guys ease up abit, its getting abit anoying now

[Marcus]

i have come to the conclusion that it does not matter what you say on this site, everyone else is better than you, its starting to be abit of a drag actually , we are here to share our views of the sport and all we seem to get is put downs. who cares about what style offers what each archer for the own, if i like aba who cares??? we are all doing this sport for a reason are we not??? ENJOYMENT!!............. So come one guys ease up abit, its getting abit anoying now
Go no problem with people playing ABA, they can do so all they like. Just don't say I'm not having fun because I am serious. That's a stereotype that hurts our sport regardless of the game being played.

[violator]

i never said that marcus, like i said we all shoot for a reason, i shoot ABA to have some fun, but ever other style is serious also, i have got no problwm with what people shoot, we are all in the same boat. but when it comes to bagging out organisations because they have a rule that you dont agree with, is not right, who cares about the bino rule?? i sure as hell dont neither does alot of other people, we are not saying that you have to shoot it, we were just saying that we like to shoot ABA, but some one on this thread blew it out or proportion again. ( i am not saying its you either)

[gazzwah]

you know wat violater you are rite aba,aaa i enjoy both ,and am going to enjoy both, i love archery and i will shoot any disapline and give it a fair go..... why ? simple really i don,t care if i wash a target or come second or miss out completly i love to shoot an arrow am going to as many differant clubs as i can this year to further my knowlegde of this fine sport.. and am doing it without binos and will forever do it without binos or a release aid. and that is that.............................................. .................

[DanceswithDingoes]

you know wat violater you are rite aba,aaa i enjoy both ,and am going to enjoy both, i love archery and i will shoot any disapline and give it a fair go..... why ? simple really i don,t care if i wash a target or come second or miss out completly i love to shoot an arrow am going to as many differant clubs as i can this year to further my knowlegde of this fine sport.. and am doing it without binos and will forever do it without binos or a release aid. and that is that.............................................. .................
with all of that money you're saving on equipment, you can afford a dictionary :rolleyes:

[gazzwah]

life is too short......... you going to the nats ...... aba that is .. byo binos:silly: he he he he he

[Liam]

So wait, just because we don't do archery purely for sh*ts and giggles, we're not having fun? :S

[gazzwah]

shoot wat ever floats your boat....... but ,to NOT shoot another disapline because of something childish well i say rise above it .................

[Liam]

shoot wat ever floats your boat....... but ,to NOT shoot another disapline because of something childish well i say rise above it .................

I don't shoot other disciplines because I'm lazy and it would require effort...

Your comment about taking it seriously was taking things a bit to far though IMHO.

[violator]

i will be at the ABA nationals, cant wait for it either, i get away from work for a while and get to have FUN for a few days, thats what i want

[Marcus]

shoot wat ever floats your boat....... but ,to NOT shoot another disapline because of something childish well i say rise above it .................
How it is childish to not shoot something because it involves poorly thought out rules?
Each organisation is a product that they are trying to sell to us the archers. ABA's product is lacking if it wants to attract a percentage of the market that favours competition.
But then if you have never played a competitive version of archery you probably don't know what you are missing.

[violator]

How it is childish to not shoot something because it involves poorly thought out rules?
Each organisation is a product that they are trying to sell to us the archers. ABA's product is lacking if it wants to attract a percentage of the market that favours competition.
But then if you have never played a competitive version of archery you probably don't know what you are missing.


there you go again, maybe you should look at the thread you put on here about people pulling there heads in

[Eberbachl]

shoot wat ever floats your boat....... but ,to NOT shoot another disapline because of something childish well i say rise above it .................

Get over it gazzwah..:rolleyes:

I've shot plenty of ABA, and I don't like the no Binos rule.

For me, it's a type of target round and I like to be able to see what I'm supposed to be aiming at.

If I don't know what I'm supposed to be aiming at I don't enjoy it. Therefore, I choose not to shoot it.

That's not childish...that's simply making a choice.

If you enjoy shooting it, more power to you. Go nuts.

Just as I accept that you enjoy mediocrity, you should accept that some people choose not to particiapte if they don't like the format. It's simple really.

...and James, I'm glad you had a good shoot. :thumb:

[violator]

Just as I accept that you enjoy mediocrity, you should accept that some people choose not to particiapte if they don't like the format. It's simple really.

...and James, I'm glad you had a good shoot. :thumb:

then why is it that the people who shoot ABA are looked down on?? just have a look through this thread............like i have said i shoot everything i can, i like shooting other styles ABA is for fun everything else is what i take seriously, so by the sounds of what some people are saying because i shoot aba i am a bad shot???

[2Dogs]

then why is it that the people who shoot ABA are looked down on??

Because they're short?

[Eberbachl]

then why is it that the people who shoot ABA are looked down on?? just have a look through this thread............like i have said i shoot everything i can, i like shooting other styles ABA is for fun everything else is what i take seriously, so by the sounds of what some people are saying because i shoot aba i am a bad shot???

...no no no. I didn't say because you shoot ABA you're a bad shot. That's a silly statement.

My comment regarding mediocrity was directed at gazzwah in relation to his comment:

simple really i don,t care if i wash a target or come second or miss out completly

Seriously, if he enjoys that, that's fine. I don't. I like to hit what I'm aiming at. I also like to see what I'm aiming at.

...and before gazzwah comes in with "you need a release aid and probably have target panic", no - I don't. Most of my ABA shooting was compound barebow, with which I achieved my Grand Master's, and whilst I choose to use a sight and release aid now I don't suffer from target panic.

People that shoot ABA aren't looked down upon :silly: I know lots of great ABA shooters. I spent five years or so shooting ABA every weekend. Even spent a few years as the ABA tournament director at our club. It's a good game. Because I choose not to play it for a number of reasons doesn't make me childish as gazzwah has mentioned. I enjoy what I'm doing with archery at the moment, and for me - my own enjoyment is what archery is all about.

What has been evident in this thread is that people have been criticised and looked down upon for wanting to take a game seriously, and choosing not to play it if the rules don't alow them to do so effectively.

[hutcho]

Because they're short?


ROFL....

[Mervwho]

Now, now children, remember it is only a game for us to enjoy to our own abilities.

[Welky]

I agree with Violator, if you choose to be simplistic and disagree with an organisation because of one rule thats fine, but don't put down or try to change others opinions just because they manage to live with the rule(s) and enjoy the game. The rules are the same for everone!

[Marcus]

I think you miss the point Welky
I choose not to shoot ABA because I hate the bino rule. That;s not putting down people who shoot it or trying to convince them they should play another game. In fact gazzwah is slamming me and calling me childish for not wanting to play his game.
That's my choice, same as some call marked rounds boring and others thing 3DAAA doesn't shoot enough arrows. We all have our reasons why we don't play a game and that's OK. If the organisations found that they could increase participation by a large percentage by changing one rule don't you think they would love to know that?

[MATBAC]

This thread started with a guy stating how much he enjoyed a 3D shoot and look at it NOW!!!!!!!!
Buddy, I'm glad you enjoyed yourself and I hope you"ll go back and do it all over again whatever association you choose.
Cheers.....ShermoSnr

[clark]

I don't know about the aba is harder than aaa thing its all 3d.Just 1 assosiation looks after its clubs better than another.Glad u loved the 3d mate hope to make it to lilydales next shoot....

[Mervwho]

I don't know about the aba is harder than aaa thing its all 3d.Just 1 assosiation looks after its clubs better than another.Glad u loved the 3d mate hope to make it to lilydales next shoot....


HERE HERE...... !!!!

[Bullseye]

Glad to hear that you enjoyed the 3D, James. I personally think it's the best game around.
Little disappointed to read that once again Marcus has dragged the tone of the thread into negativity with his reference to his thoughts on the "BS bino rule". It's not the first time he's aired his negative thoughts on an association he doen't actively support, probably won't be the last either.
Whether or not the bino rule should be reveiwed is a discussion for it's own thread, not used to bring down the entire tone of this one.

[2Dogs]

Yeah!!!.... Marcus sucks!!

:rofl:

[Marcus]

I see 50% of your posts are crying about my posts.
I'm glad I mean that much to you. :p

[Marcus]

Clark has a 1 month suspension and Bullseye has been banned for continual breach of this rule.

http://www.archery-forum.com/showthread.php?t=4817


Especially ironic given you took at shot at ABA in this very thread. :rolleyes:

[James Hirth]

I don't enjoy missing the target either and I'm baffled that anyone would think I should.

Glad to see you're having fun James. :)

i don't think anyone enjoys missing, but at Lillydale if you missed you hit a target behind it.
having a heap of fun, thanks Erika

[gazzwah]

got to admit erika grown men hunting rubber cows cracks me up too..:D have to admit some pegs do get put astry but not all the time it happens every now and then... no one like to miss but there is allways the next target...good to hear you can judge your distances and can obviosly hit what you aim at :thumb: perhaps you may go to the dva shoot on sunday ? by the way james glad you loved the shoot many more to come as well as the state 3d later on in the year...:thumb:

[Marcus]

After some discussion behind the scene Clark's suspension has been banned.
Please note that if you are using computers in the same household it is unwise for one to use an alias.

Now, back to discussion, which is the absolute blast that is 3D archery.

[ozarcher]

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed your time shooting 3d erika....
We miss you too!

[Erika]

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed your time shooting 3d erika....
We miss you too!

All of the 3D clubs in Vic have gorgeous ranges (the gully at MRA, the Xanthorrea forest at Mornington and the tricky hill side at Geelong etc). It's a real shame it isn't better regulated and I suspect that the issues are largely ignored because women and children are the main ones affected.

I would actually prefer to shoot 3D over fita field, but at least in fita I can expect the course will be fair.

[wareagle]

[QUOTE=Marcus]After some discussion behind the scene Clark's suspension has been banned.
Please note that if you are using computers in the same household it is unwise for one to use an alias.

[QUOTE]
Does that mean Clark is banned, or his suspension has been lifted ?

[Marcus]

Suspension lifted

[Brad]

It's a real shame it isn't better regulated and I suspect that the issues are largely ignored because women and children are the main ones affected.

I would actually prefer to shoot 3D over fita field, but at least in fita I can expect the course will be fair.

Perhaps you should shoot a bit more 3D in Victoria before you make these types of comments. The people running these shoots do alot of work to make sure that courses are suitable for ALL the archers competeing. There have been some mistakes made in the past, but now with each club having more experience it is not happening any more.

[Erika]

Perhaps you should shoot a bit more 3D in Victoria before you make these types of comments. The people running these shoots do alot of work to make sure that courses are suitable for ALL the archers competeing. There have been some mistakes made in the past, but now with each club having more experience it is not happening any more.

I shot 3D in Victoria for a year (give or take) and never shot a course that was legal (including my own club). I was also informed that if I was good enough that the peg shouldn't have to be legal (paraphrased).

I'm glad to hear you've picked your game up. It may take a while for the disappointment to wear off, but I'd like to try 3D again one day.

Don't get me wrong. Grown men hunting rubber animals makes me laugh and I think it's a really cool game (I really loved shooting in Mornington). However, I'm a competition girl through and through. If it's done badly, I don't play (there's plenty of other games out there) and I'm 100% target dabbling in field so I'm not on a crusade to make 3D better (100% 3D shooters may think theres no need for improvement). I'm just putting forward why I no longer play.

[Batman]

you all got it way too easy... and some of you take soooooooooooo long to take a shot and look at the beast several times before the shot and then again after you hit the target... can't you wait five mins then walk down when everybody else has shot and look at what you got.. cos it won't change at all.

Your concerns here have been addressed Gazzwah.

See: http://www.3daaa.com/ModCoreFrontEnd/first.asp

Section 4 A.5 & A 5.1 - Time condtitions.

Section 3 C.3 - Glassing conditions.

I guess if someone in your group draws down three or four times you could tell them to hurry the f*** up!;)

AW.

[coach]

Erika , may I ask how you knew that some distances weren't legal and by how much were they out ? And were they shorter or longer ?

[Erika]

Erika , may I ask how you knew that some distances weren't legal and by how much were they out ? And were they shorter or longer ?

Set your sights for the maximum distance and then miss low (as in hit dirt in front).... I honestly thought the first couple of times that maybe I was just that bad at distance judging. Not refering to any specific course (cos it's been a while and they all (DVA included) had problems). There was one case where two pegs where around the wrong way for half the course and reversed for the other half.

Also, if you have a mixed group you can work out if a peg is wrong as long as someone actually judged the one of the pegs correctly. The only times I was off enough to miss was when either my peg was out or the peg in front was out.

I've heard some people say that using the pegs to judge is cheating... well it's only cheating if it's illegal.. I use 3 methods to judge a distance with every target. Open ground, trees and the pegs (which is standard practise in unmarked fita). If the peg in front is 10metres too long, it can upset your judgement. If your own peg is too long... it's just ridiculous. Keep in mind I was trying to learn the game so my confidence was a little shaky in my own judgement... it was a lot easier when I trusted myself and ignored the impossibility of illegal pegs.

Practise makes perfect and Simon Hendry can tell you the woes of getting it wrong... and he works very hard to improve his standards and how to avoid problems. A classic problem was the range finder was focused on the wrong point (this was a fita field.. but the point is the same)... until I saw that happen, I would have thought that range finding was infallible.

A few suggestions have been made that I'm just not good enough to hit what I'm aiming at. (shrug) Those pesky rubber animals just move at the last minute :D

[clark]

Come on give it another go we haven't been going in victoria that long .There is always the chance of makeing mistakes in every game.Remeber the people that run the shoots do it so that other people may come and enjoy themselves.It gives you a bit of personal satifaction to have people express there graditude towards you.For putting in and makeing the shoot happen.I or nore do any of the other aaa members who run shoots preech to be perfect.All we can say is sorry at the end of the day and try our hardest to get it right.So we hope to see everyone there enjoying themselves at kneyton.Its an awesome venue that can only be truly justified by a great turn out.So lets stop *****ing amongst ourselves (my whife included) and get in and promote this great sport.Which with a bit of time can only get bigger..cj

[Erika]

Thankyou Clark (you rock) :D

That is the 1st positive response to the issue that I have heard. I don't actually think that clubs are at fault with this.. I think that 3D needs judges (I don't recall seeing any, if they exist my bad) checking the courses over (we have them in Fita and it works well.. some mistakes slip through, but that just gives us something to whinge about).

And I would like to return to 3D in the future. Gives you boys a chance to prove me wrong :D

Come on give it another go we haven't been going in victoria that long .There is always the chance of makeing mistakes in every game.Remeber the people that run the shoots do it so that other people may come and enjoy themselves.It gives you a bit of personal satifaction to have people express there graditude towards you.For putting in and makeing the shoot happen.I or nore do any of the other aaa members who run shoots preech to be perfect.All we can say is sorry at the end of the day and try our hardest to get it right.So we hope to see everyone there enjoying themselves at kneyton.Its an awesome venue that can only be truly justified by a great turn out.So lets stop *****ing amongst ourselves (my whife included) and get in and promote this great sport.Which with a bit of time can only get bigger..cj

[Eberbachl]

Come on give it another go we haven't been going in victoria that long .There is always the chance of makeing mistakes in every game.Remeber the people that run the shoots do it so that other people may come and enjoy themselves.It gives you a bit of personal satifaction to have people express there graditude towards you.For putting in and makeing the shoot happen.I or nore do any of the other aaa members who run shoots preech to be perfect.All we can say is sorry at the end of the day and try our hardest to get it right.So we hope to see everyone there enjoying themselves at kneyton.Its an awesome venue that can only be truly justified by a great turn out.So lets stop *****ing amongst ourselves (my whife included) and get in and promote this great sport.Which with a bit of time can only get bigger..cj


Thats an admirable post Clark, and I appreciate your sentiments.

Of course in every game the people running it do their best, and mistakes can happen.

Unfortunately in the past when I (I won't speak for any others) tried to praise the organisers for what they did well, and make organisers aware of a couple of mistakes (in private - not on the public forum I might add) I got my head bitten off, and was told things like (to paraphrase) "we dont need people like you telling us how to run the game" "I'm not happy with your criticism", "it wasn't even your peg! :x:x".....

When a good natured, well meaning, and carefully constructed private post trying to point out errors that one didn't know the organisers were aware of is met with such aggression, it makes you lose faith in the game.

Like I said, we all know mistakes can happen, and that the organisers work hard to put on shoots, but if we're not open enough to accept friendly criticism without abusing those trying to help, what hope is there?

[coach]

There was one case where two pegs where around the wrong way for half the course and reversed for the other half.
Erika , I'm sure that can be done legally ,,IE One is set at the minimum distance and the other at Maximum ,, then vice versa .:)
As for the other shot hitting the dirt ,,well as has been said ,, people make mistakes ;)
It's still a great game and I wish I was shooting it ;)

[Marcus]

Coach
It can only be done legally if they are kept within their legal distances. However in one specific 3 courses had the red peg well past 18m.
If you set your sight at maximum distance you should never ever miss low, especially well under the target.
If you have never watched Erika shoot she has shot 358/360 at 30m on a 10 ring the size of the 8 ring on the turkey target. She doesn't miss something by 4m at those ranges. She as finished in the top 3 in Victoria in field a number of times, that's against world class male shooters.

I think the problem is that many people don't understand is that for experienced target shooters we just don't miss what we are aiming at unless the distances were guessed wrong, or we aimed at the wrong spot. We are very confident in our ability to hit a spot at a known distance. That's what we do. I couldn't stalk a blind deaf soft toy in the bush without scaring it away, but I can hit what I aim at.

Also I personally use to play ALOT of unmarked FITA back when guaging was policed heavily. I had quite an in depth system of using the pegs to work out the ranges. It was good enough that I had National and State Jr records in unmarked field.
Want to screw me? Make it so I can't see the pegs, and I become pretty useless on those courses. (not helped by my shot vision which screws my depth perception)

It's really quite simple. If the green peg is 3m in front of you and you miss the animal low by putting your sight on 39m. Then the green peg shooter puts their sight on 36m and hits rocks under the target then the course is illegal. Of course I am starting to think our error was not filing official protests at each of these shoots, but then we thought have quiet words would have been more receptive.

BTW how easy is it to make a mistake setting up? Very easy. CMB50 is an excellent distance judger. On one course he laid out I looked at the red peg (18m max) and said 'that's not 18m to there.'. He insisted it was. I argued because it was very long and I knew that section of DVA's course having setup shots there myself. Anyway after we shot the target we paced it to 28m. In this case I had allowed for it, but 99% of teh time I can't allow, it screws with my head too much.

It happens. However if we want the game to be the great game it could be in Victoria, it MUST NOT happen. It's unfair on the competitors shooting the shorter distances when they think they are doing things right and miss through no fault of their own.

[coach]

Fair enough Marcus , I was not trying to ridicule Erika , just pointing out that it can be done ;)

Jeff:)

[Marcus]

Yeah I know Jeff, I thought it is an important part to clarify.

We both enjoy 3D alot and want to play it again. This is a World Target year so Erika's having to concentrate on target, however we both intend to play again as it's a great game and the locations been used in Victoria are often breathtaking.

[2Dogs]

3D is an Intriguing game. Hence why I like it.

It can be more "art" then science when it comes to hitting a target.

I've shot many Targets with Many good shots, and I'm facinated in this game how two Archers of excellent abilty can have judged the distances so differently...... yet still hit 10 rings :) ie: (Luke and I at Raleigh being 10 meters out and still hitting the middle:) ). This happens time and time again at every shoot I've attended.

So with respect to Erika when she says, "I set it to Max and went under, the Target must be marked wrong"................ well I say, PFFFTTTT! :).

Sometimes range setters make mistakes.......sometimes Archers make mistakes, but most of the time us Archers make the mistake.

And it's great when I get egg on my face swearing a target is out, only to come back with a range finder and look like a goose :rofl:

So!............. all you Vic's get out there hunting Rubber..... so you can come to the Nats and I can flog your Ass's.....I would especially like to flog Erika's :silly: .. (oops did i say that out loud) ;)

[maskn]

I think that 3D needs judges (I don't recall seeing any, if they exist my bad) checking the courses over (we have them in Fita and it works well.. some mistakes slip through, but that just gives us something to whinge about).

This is a great idea Erika, I know we had some issues at the Geelong Shoot last year with safety and a judge could help solve those types of issues. :thumb:

[Erika]

I think you've been flogging something else 4dogs. :p

I don't have to pretend someone else $&@#%*@#%* up... there's always too many witnesses who will happily tell everyone that it was me. ie Aus day shoot 06, national indoor 06, state field 05, world target 03 etc :D

Hence I don't need any assistance from bad courses to make my mistakes for me.

3D is an Intriguing game. Hence why I like it.

It can be more "art" then science when it comes to hitting a target.

I've shot many Targets with Many good shots, and I'm facinated in this game how two Archers of excellent abilty can have judged the distances so differently...... yet still hit 10 rings :) ie: (Luke and I at Raleigh being 10 meters out and still hitting the middle:) ). This happens time and time again at every shoot I've attended.

So with respect to Erika when she says, "I set it to Max and went under, the Target must be marked wrong"................ well I say, PFFFTTTT! :).

Sometimes range setters make mistakes.......sometimes Archers make mistakes, but most of the time us Archers make the mistake.

And it's great when I get egg on my face swearing a target is out, only to come back with a range finder and look like a goose :rofl:

So!............. all you Vic's get out there hunting Rubber..... so you can come to the Nats and I can flog your Ass's.....I would especially like to flog Erika's :silly: .. (oops did i say that out loud) ;)

[2Dogs]

I think you've been flogging something else 4dogs.


Ahhh, but I always say, " if you do something...do it well"

:)

[Mervwho]

I find it a little strange with Erica's comments re distance particularly being too long.

I was always under the impression that in ABA it is any target and distance out to 48 meters and 3D AAA any target any distance out to 45 meters. I'm sorry Erica but if you are trying to use the other pegs for 3D shooting to judge distance you are unfortunately misguided. You cannot. To compare with judging distances with unmarked FITA, again you cannot. It is a completely different game. Nothing is the same, different target sizes is the first, different sizing all over with nothing to compare with. This game is individual every time you shoot a new course. This is why it is the ultimate challenge for an archer any archer to master. You are a great target shooter but that being said, maybe and just maybe you are not a great 3D shooter, but could be. I say that respectfully after being in this wonderful game of ours for over 40years, and still learning.

[Marcus]

Merv
Erika is a Female so shoots from the Green peg which back then had a maximum of 40 yards (36m).
So if she puts her sight on 36m and misses under the animal the pegs are clearly out.

Can someone explain to me how that doesn't work? If you put your sight on the maximum tat peg allows you can not possibly miss the animal low unless you did a major shot screw up, and believe me, Erika would know if she screwed up that bad at that range. She wouldn't miss a shot at 90m by that much, so why would she suddenly do so at 36m?

[Eddie C]

I find it a little strange with Erica's comments re distance particularly being too long.

I was always under the impression that in ABA it is any target and distance out to 48 meters and 3D AAA any target any distance out to 45 meters. I'm sorry Erica but if you are trying to use the other pegs for 3D shooting to judge distance you are unfortunately misguided. You cannot. To compare with judging distances with unmarked FITA, again you cannot. It is a completely different game. Nothing is the same, different target sizes is the first, different sizing all over with nothing to compare with. This game is individual every time you shoot a new course. This is why it is the ultimate challenge for an archer any archer to master. You are a great target shooter but that being said, maybe and just maybe you are not a great 3D shooter, but could be. I say that respectfully after being in this wonderful game of ours for over 40years, and still learning.
Are you saying that youve never, ever, looked at the peg in front off you or any other peg on the target lane and try and determine the distance from that?

[Erika]

I'm sorry Erica but if you are trying to use the other pegs for 3D shooting to judge distance you are unfortunately misguided. You cannot.

Um... yes you can. By looking at the red peg, I know that it can't be longer than 18m. And I know that the white peg can't be more than 27m. So by judging the distance between the green peg and the white peg I know the maximum distance that the green peg 'might' be. This is why you judge every peg with three methods. Each one has disadvantages - such as open ground can be deceptive if it dips low and sometimes there is no open ground (suh as over gullies). And you can only use trees if they are there and if they are close enough to the range you're shooting on.

Please don't assume that because I'm a girl and a target shooter, that I don't know how to shoot field. While it is not my game of choice (I grew up with the leech infested courses of tassy.... i hate leeches), I'm not a novice to this game. Yes I need to practice more if I want to shoot a perfect round, but 3D just isn't that hard guys (I shot high 80s to low 90s, with my apparently poor judgement). And 36metres is almost funny. I'm also shooting 60# and appropriately light arrows. If I misjudge a target, it is generally by a few metres and the bow is fast enough that the arrow will still hit the animal. But more importantly, I had at least two experienced 3D archers with me on every course I shot who have already confirmed that the courses were out.

[TSTOY]

At the last MRA shoot, & during the top ten, I aimed at maximum distance for the orange peg & missed the target, shooting under. I was convinced that the target had been set behond max. Later speaking to Suger Ray Roy (he helped set the top ten course), however, confirmed that the target had in fact been set under max.
Taking some shots on the practice course reveiled that my arrows were grouping about 15cm low at 50yds. I'd adjusted my sights the morning of the shoot & may have made an error. But then again, my sight settings are quite dynamic (as in they change from day to day), as opposed to being static (stay the same).:D :D
No one likes to wash a target, imagine my fun at doing it infront of a large crowd with my arch enemy, the Master of Ceremonies Murphy giving me no end of ridicule.:D :D
I've particapated in most of the MRA shoots & many Vic tourny's & have found them to be well set up, quality events. Nor have I personally felt as though any peg has been set behond max. I was presant at the shoot in question & can still recal the controversial target, but I was shooting orange that day. I'm confident that any errors in Vic 3D have been ironed out, & would encourage all to participate.:thumb:

[Marcus]

I'm confident that any errors in Vic 3D have been ironed out, & would encourage all to participate
Of that I have no doubt.


I have only ever seen one orange peg past maximum, at DVA on a double target, usually it's the shorter ones.

[Eberbachl]

I'm sorry Erica but if you are trying to use the other pegs for 3D shooting to judge distance you are unfortunately misguided. You cannot.

Oh Merv...you certainly can effectively use the shorter pegs to help you estimate the distance to the target. It's one of a number of effective methods available. I like to use a mixture of them on each target. ;)

As Erika explained It can help you no end. For example, If I'm at the orange peg, I have pegs in front of me with a maximum of 18, 27, and 36 metres. Knowing that none of these pegs can be beyond their maximum allowance lets me more accurately determine the distance to the target from my peg.

Here's an example (an easy one I know, but it's late and I'm too tired to be more creative :p):

Let's say I'm at the orange peg, but the green peg (max 36 metres) is behind me by around 4 metres. The white peg (or is it red? I can't remember off-hand...it's over a year since I've shot 3D) looks long and can't be over 27 metres. It's around 5 metres in front of me. I can use this information to determine that I'm at 32 metres, and then I can go ahead and use another method to confirm that estimation.

Some people frown upon using other pegs to help judge distance. It's certainly legal, and to me just another method available to use. Good course setters know about this method, and position the pegs cleverly so they're not easily visible from the furthermost pegs.

:thumb:

So, it's only fair to everyone, that all of the pegs are correct - as they're available for everyone to use within the rules of the game.

I understand that the 3D courses in Victoria recently have been excellent. I look forward to finding the time to try some of them out this year.

;)

[2Dogs]

From this thread I have come to the conclusion that both Erika & Brad both suck at 3D.

It's just that both of them are in Denial as to how bad they are at it :D

1 can't aim at & hit something @ 36m, the other can't read a tape measure :rofl:

[Brad]

From this thread I have come to the conclusion that both Erika & Brad both suck at 3D.

:

Still good enough to beat you last weekend in your backyard!!

[Erika]

Don't go there. We already know what 4dogs likes to beat. :D

Still good enough to beat you last weekend in your backyard!!

[Aechmea]

This is why you judge every peg with three methods. Each one has disadvantages - such as open ground can be deceptive if it dips low and sometimes there is no open ground (suh as over gullies). And you can only use trees if they are there and if they are close enough to the range you're shooting on.


I understand the peg difference technique, and I presume that the tree method is estimating the gap between trees then summing the increments to arrive at an estimated distance, but what is the 'open ground technique'? Is it counting, say, 10 m increments to deduce the distance?

[Erika]

I understand the peg difference technique, and I presume that the tree method is estimating the gap between trees then summing the increments to arrive at an estimated distance, but what is the 'open ground technique'? Is it counting, say, 10 m increments to deduce the distance?

Pretty much. I use tufts of grass and marks in the ground etc. Really tricky if it is completely open ground or no ground at all.

There's a shot across a gully at MRA that really kills me. I really hate that gully.. those shots are hard when you know the distance. But when you have no point of reference it's super hard. And if I remember correctly, the pegs were all placed so that you couldn't see anybody else's. Really sneaky!!

[TMJ]

Well done Erika, he shall be now and forever be known as,

4TH DOG.

[Eberbachl]

Well done Erika, he shall be now and forever be known as,

4TH DOG.

And so it shall be done!

Great idea Terry ;)

:rofl:

[TMJ]

Thanks Luke, mate, it's not as if he ever comes first in ANYTHING, so 1 dogs out, 2nd or third, I can't remember those places figuring in his career, but 4TH, heck that man can shoot a solid 4th place.

[2Dogs]

Note to self.

Shoot Luke & TMJ at next available opportunity ;)

[Mervwho]

Are you saying that youve never, ever, looked at the peg in front off you or any other peg on the target lane and try and determine the distance from that?


With the system that I have been using now for quite a few years I don't have to and I can tell you exactly how far it is to the target within one meter.
People have doubted me until it is explained to them and then they have never looked back. Am I going to post how it is done, start offering me cash And then we will talk.

[Eddie C]

It's pretty hard to believe that in 40 years of distance judging youve never had one thought about the distance of a peg in front of you. Your method must be pretty good not to consider another method. Im interested but broke at the moment. lol.

[Marcus]

There's a shot across a gully at MRA that really kills me. I really hate that gully.. those shots are hard when you know the distance. But when you have no point of reference it's super hard. And if I remember correctly, the pegs were all placed so that you couldn't see anybody else's. Really sneaky!!
Actually the one that got me there was one from the orange where you stood on teh peg with this mound of dirt less than a stabilizer length in front. The animal appears over the mound. I tried everything in the book and ended up missing it low. IIRC I turned to Luke, laughed and said 'well they got me on that one'. :thumb:

[Eberbachl]

Actually the one that got me there was one from the orange where you stood on teh peg with this mound of dirt less than a stabilizer length in front. The animal appears over the mound. I tried everything in the book and ended up missing it low. IIRC I turned to Luke, laughed and said 'well they got me on that one'. :thumb:

Yep - I remember arrows going crash bang! on that one :rofl:

[PIG FARMER]

Erika , you say you don't shoot 3D because ranges aren't set up to code, well thats pretty easy to fix. Up hear in Coffs Harbour every club member is welcome to come out and help set up our 3D ranges be it club or official 3D AAA shoots. We dont expect the ladies or Juniors to lug out the targets, but they are welcome to place pegs, or just give input. In short it always seems to be the people that just want to turn up and shoot that we get the most complaints from. Just my 2 cents worth.... Steve .

[Marcus]

Actually Erika does assist in the field course, she even dug out many of the steps on our course with a shovel. Don't assume she doesn't do anything. :rolleyes:

[PIG FARMER]

Glad to hear she doesn't mind getting her hand dirty Marcus, but how about your next club 3D, will you and the missus be out there helping to peg the range ?

[Marcus]

No because we are busy with FITA at the moment. I run the target shoots, indoor, target and field leagues, advanced coaching and website. Erika had to resign as social secretary (she arranged the food for the target and 3D events) while she works an 80 hour week at uni finishing her PHD in cancer research.
When she does get to the club these days she helps with coaching as well as whatever shooting she can get in. She can only shoot about 6 hours a week right now, which is a far cry from the 30+ hours she was doing last year.
As said, she has certainly contributed to the 3D game at DVA in the past, and I have set out quite a number of courses, taking days off work to do so.

We have a club with over 150 members. Always plenty of work to do, but with 120 target shooters that is currently mine and Erika's focus. Simon, Cordell and their crew are doing a great job with the 3D and I assist with results and administration when they need it.

Anyway, it is incredible that because she is a girl people assume she doesn't do any hard work or can even shoot. I'll challenge you to find anyone in DVA who works harder and she can outshoot anyone there, and we have some imressive shooters. :rolleyes:

[Erika]

Glad to hear she doesn't mind getting her hand dirty


The only thing worse than digging steps on the DVA field course in summer was carrying strammits on foot into the field course for the 95' Fita Nationals - they dropped the strammits on my leg because they were crawling with huntsmen and we were choking on bushfire smoke.

And yes we had to listen to lots of complaints about the course. We listened to the complaints and took it on board for future reference - with bruises and cuts still healing. Hard work doesn't mean you don't make mistakes. You suck it up and do better.

People all over the world are still complaining about the disaster that was the 2002 World Field. We were told the only country to do worse than Madrid Target 05 (and they were bad) was Australia Field 02. Yeah it sucks to be told the bad things, but you'll find that they stand out in people's memories. How you respond to their disappointment is also going to ensure how they remember the event. Many things are forgiven in the face of an appropriate response - not forgotten, but definitely forgiven.

[Liam]

crawling with huntsmen .

Eww. :cry:

[dbjac]

Eww. :cry:

Gees, your a girl. Go paint your nails. :p

[scout]

With the system that I have been using now for quite a few years I don't have to and I can tell you exactly how far it is to the target within one meter.
People have doubted me until it is explained to them and then they have never looked back. Am I going to post how it is done, start offering me cash And then we will talk.

Righto Merv, how much.

[Eberbachl]

For sale. Merv's secret to judging 3D targets.

Foolproof! Never miss an 11 ring again!

:lol:

;)

:thumb:

[Mervwho]

Righto Merv, how much.


Pm me with an offer, If it is acceptable I will tell you just how easy it is...believe it or not. Buy the way, I shoot pins.
I've got to make some money somehow Luke, us old pensioners do it tough some times......

[Simon Hendry]

I think we can safly put the issues of the past well behind us. 3d in Vic will grow. Myself and Cordell have been busy training up 6 new yes thats right 6 new 3D shooters for the next shoot at MRA (Kyton). And we have more coming in from our beginers courses the club runs.
Yes mistakes were made in the past with courses not being right I myself have made them. Lets move on from this and learne and make 3D-AAA in Vic as good as we can possibly make it.
And I hope we will see the likes of Marcus, Erika and Luke back shooting 3D with use one day and anyone else for that matter who use to and is not any more for one reason or another as the more people we get the more those peolpe will help grow the game.