EUG Field shoot

[StevenB]

Would anyone be interested in a field shoot.

I was thinking that we could have a target, field, and indoor event.
say Newcastle holds the field event Sydeny the target and NSW the Indoor.

[Aarleks]

Would love a Field shoot Steven. What sort of dates were you thinking of?

[Flehrad]

Um, excuse me for my unknowledge......
what is the difference with a Field shoot compared to target?
I know about indoor =)
Is it that distances are unknown?

[recurve boy]

Its basically target in the woods. You have a set course with targets in certain places. Distances are marked or unmarked. You walk along the course and shoot at each target you come by. Due to placement of targets you may end up shooting uphill, down hill, suspended by some harness while leaning off a cliff etc ...

Targets are also different. They're the black ones with the yellow centers right?

I'm not a big fan of shooting and bush walking at the same time. But I'll give it ago if its not too woodsie :D

Alex, after your last signiture and the story behind it your current one seems a let down. try harder! :)

[Bobby Yeoh]

I'd be interested in a shoot, target, field and indoor. When and where are we looking at for the event?

Also depends on whether I can get my equipment up to Sydney and get myself settled back into form (very big IF on the last point).

Keep us all posted!

[Flehrad]

Hmm.
If we do do a field shoot, I'd prefer to go back to compound with alum arrows :)
Prefer to keep my compound kit safe from branches, and carbon arrows from trees hehehehe

But surely that requires a heck of a lot of clearance space around, and take a long time to give the groups ahead clearance time? Or does all 50 people walk in one group?

[StevenB]

not sure on dates

the field course I was thinking of is Westlake Archers, not too dificult.

the course is set out like any other course, with enough safety for archers to be all over the field at the same time.

the course is pretty clear, and there is not a real chance of any damage to your bow (I have shot for 8yrs and in that time shot about 30 - 40 field events with my gear. Only ever lost 4 arrows)

I will talk to westlakes and see what they think. It will be a weekend though (saturday or sunday)

[compound boy]

sounds good I guess, but then i'll have to setup the Viper. Can't walk thru the woods with my recurve, its just not on.

Thanks for the Uni Forum Steve.

[Aarleks]

Marc - Ahh, but have you thought about it?

I guess seeing as it is not up to scratch I will, in the words of a very wise sage, "try and think of something equally pretentious to take its place"!! :lol:

Although I have never shot field I am not concerned about losing arrows (that you stand to lose many arrows is an urban myth - unless you don't have any sight settings!). Would very much like this to happen. Any chance of making it an Arrowhead?

What sort of terrain is it at Westlakes Steven?

[StevenB]

arrow head, not alot really.

the terrain is some bits flat some up and down hill shots (the whole place was burnt out over christmas). We might be able to have a bit of a coaching session on field shooting in the morning and only shoot a 12(maybe a 24) target course in the arvo and have a BBQ, then you all can come back up for the westlakes field at the end of the year

John why don't you want to take your recurve through the course?

[StevenB]

just spoke to Westlakes and they are happy for us to have a shoot at there club. Cost to be confirmed.

we need to give them a date for when we want to run the shoot. Any suggestions?

I was thinking the mid year break as an option

[Bobby Yeoh]

Middle of the year's no good for me. I'll be in Singapore at the time. Cousin's getting married. Also an excuse for me to pick up more gear at premium prices. Last I remembered, prices were abour 50% what they are in Oz. Might see if I can get a set of ACC's. Can't afford them here.

I'll see though. With the whole SARS scare over there, we migh have to cancel the trip. Hold the shoot whenever and I'll get back as to whether I can make it.

[StevenB]

Bobby, what sort of prices are we talking and are you prepaired to bring stuff back for others :)

[Bobby Yeoh]

It was quite a while ago but from what I remember, prices were about 50% to 75% what you can get here.

I got a set of 12 ACC's (with points, nocks and fletches) for about $120. Had the option of getting a PSE Infinity XLD for ~$800 (wasn't even released in Oz at the time).

Not sure what the prices are like currently. As to whether I can bring stuff back for people, I'm not really sure whether I can. I'm planning to get a whole heap of Medical textbooks as prices are about 60% of prices here. That might take up quite a lot of my luggage allowance. Also depends on what people want me to bring back.

I'll have to get back to you on that. First I'm not even sure if I'm going cos of the whole SARS thing. The best thing I can do is probably get in touch with AF when I'm there and let people know the prices and what I cn bring back.

Very tentative at the moment.

[Flehrad]

Getting back to the shooting

Well, Usyd team is trying to get a mid july 2 or 3 day (perhaps team matchplay as a 3rd day) around perhaps second week of mid semester break......
But we need to clear up first Sports Union insurance issues for non members to shoot at such an event.

However, if there is too many events too close, then people can't afford it, and will be all burnt out from excessive competition shooting.....
But not me though.

I think we can have a full uni shooting circuit
Outdoor Target with Usyd
Indoor Target with UNSW
Field with Newcastle
Clout with UWS
Perhaps 1 a term? with Outdoor Target of course being the big main event in the middle of the year as traditional is.

[recurve boy]

Indoor Target with UNSW

This may not be a good idea. Currently, I AM the club. Not to mention that the place we would have had it has finally been renovated/demolished.

And keep it 2 days guys. 3+ is just too long. If you want more competition have smaller more regular comps.

[Aarleks]

I'm with Marc. Three days is too many. Let's just keep it to two, especially if we are to have other Uni comp's at other locations. Besides, it's easier.

[Flehrad]

You guys are no fun at all....

I don't see how it's any harder to organise an extra day.... but then, that is just me.
Well, another boring 2 day as usual with a Geelong and Adelaide by the sounds of it then.
oh well.

:)

We're still waiting for Dave Brady to get back about that issue aren't we?

Hmm.... Do you reckon we'd be able to rip up the flooring inside HK ward if we wanted to hold a indoor?

[StevenB]

instead of gelong and adelaide lets have a double canberra round

[Flehrad]

That's fairly dull. :o

I would like to keep the Geelong, as it has been pretty much the standard, to the point where most of our uni shooting is only done at 30m, and only change distances for special events or competitions people are training for.

I don't mind if we sub out Adelaide for something else, like a Canberra, or even a Double Canberra on the same day (hmmmm, need plenty of time and energy for that one), or perhaps something with a bit more of a challenge like a Holt (50m, 80cm, 90 arrows) or a Launceston (50 & 30m, 80cm, 36 arrows each), or even a FITA style event such as a Freemantle (60m, 50m, 122cm, 36 arrows each, 40m, 30m, 80cm, 36 arrows each) cos the Freemantle has a total 144, like a FITA, and it has 80 and 122 faces, like a FITA. Just shorter distances overall.

But of course, once again, we need more discussion.

[recurve boy]

I don't see how it's any harder to organise an extra day.... but then, that is just me.
Well, another boring 2 day as usual with a Geelong and Adelaide by the sounds of it then.
oh well.
We'll we've been talking about a one day shoot for many years now (we still have the alleged trophy) and its never happened. So lets keep it simple eh? Besides this is the first time its been non AUS organized so better a small success than a big failure :D

I'd have to agree with Flehrad about keeping the Geelong. What are the Novices going to shoot?

But this just means the Novices shoot a different round to the rest. We can have a Geelong for them, maybe a double, and a double canberra for the rest.

[Shirt]

God's sakes, people! Do some proper rounds like a FITA or something. Least you can do is find a round that has some 70m in it. Isn't distance one of the more entertaining things about this sport? 8)

[Marcus]

With the leagues I run I cater for lots of levels of archers, so I run many rounds. I like to use the 90 arrow rounds with Perth for advanced down to Jr Canberras
Also Sydneys to Short Adelaide work well too.

Single range stuff is really boring.

[recurve boy]

Single range stuff is really boring.

That's a bit like saying watching paint dry from different distances suddenly makes it interesting.

[Flehrad]

Watching paint dry from different distances?! :o
I would have never thought of it.... :lol:

The problem is, we (Usyd) would like to host. However, we do not have field capacity to do 70m safely, and that is why something multidistance restricted to 60m or under is preferable.

I think that for the Novices division, a Geelong will be perfect.
We have confirmed at least for Usyd people that we are holding a 20m competition (we can't confirm other uni entrants due to Sports Union not getting back to us yet) on Anzac day, and so going from that to a Geelong will be good.

I would like to try something a little challenging, but not extreme yet, especially since I'm still operating off 3 arrows....... :cry:

I think that we will need to define something soon, I would say by the end of April, if not first week May, so we can start proper organisation of something.

Marc, Which trophy are you talking about anyway? Because Alex has mentioned it to me, but I'm not sure if I have even competed in it or not,.... and since my first interuni comp was back in 1999.... if I didn't, then it's truely old, and perhaps dead. :P

[StevenB]

With the canberra round the less capable archers could shoot a short or jr, or as the geelong is 90 arrows they could shoot that.


I have to agree with Marcus that single distance rounds suck (except for clout :D )

Also we need a system for determining teams events. Maybe total score for your entrants / by the amount of your entrants. (But face it if we field the same team again we are taking the trophy home)

P.S. we need to start at a proper time (at 9am there was no wind up here last year)

[Ferret]

Newbie question...what is this city code thing mean please? :-?

[StevenB]

they are different rounds that can be shot

[Aarleks]

I'm cool with single distance stuff if it is at longer distances or with smaller faces. Certainly for the novices the Geelong is good. As Don says, we are limited at Sydney by range safety. This may change if we can secure a larger field for the comp. Once we get the go ahead on insurance we will try to get a larger field so we can host longer distance shoots. FITA would be nice, however I think that something like a Canberra or the like would have the most support.
Sadly our present facilities are limiting our archers. I would even go so far as to say detrimental to our development as archers. Hopefully we can change this soon.

Ferret: The city names are names for the various rounds shot in Australia. You can find a breakdown of them on the ArcheryNSW site.

[recurve boy]

Watching paint dry from different distances?! :o
I would have never thought of it.... :lol:




Marc, Which trophy are you talking about anyway? Because Alex has mentioned it to me, but I'm not sure if I have even competed in it or not,.... and since my first interuni comp was back in 1999.... if I didn't, then it's truely old, and perhaps dead. :P

The guy who won it is I think old enough to enter the Masters Games. So yeah ... But its in good condition so since it has some sort of wierd history it would be cool to use it.

Gimme a email ASA you get the go ahead from the SA. There are a bunch of people wanting to enter. Would it help if each uni was insured by their own SA?

As for a team scoring system, I suggest something similar to the Team Selection system for the World Target Champs. Points for placing, bonuses for particularly good scores, minus points for bad scores. Take the top 5 scores say. Points based on AA ratings tables. We can come up with some way to normalize the points so we can lump all divisions together. Probably based on classification tables. Sounds rather complicated but you can just stick things into an Excel spread sheet and tada!

Excel, the only good MS product.

[Flehrad]

I just have issues with team event scoring like the old EUG/AUS events, because we have never been able to field as many compound shooters, and we just lose out totally, not to mention, our guys who do shoot compound only two of us use Peepsights, let alone scopes.... and so at longer ranges we lose out once again.

If there is a fair method of determining a score, without bias of equipment (such as modifiers depending on what division or something) then I would be happy with that.

I think, for the purposes of not dissapointing ourselves in case we can not get a larger field, I would recommend that any round taken for the 2nd day should be 60m and under.

I will say that it is pretty much set that Geelong is the first day.

Still no word from the Sports Union as far as I know, but I think Alex is the contact for that point right now.

Newcastle guys, does anyone know how much it was to rent the removal truck you used for transporting and storing the targets last year that you borrowed from SIAP?

[Marcus]

Excel, the only good MS product.
and they wrote it for Mac first!! :P

[StevenB]

I just have issues with team event scoring like the old EUG/AUS events, because we have never been able to field as many compound shooters, and we just lose out totally,

Last year I shot over 800 and so did another recurve shooter, who got one of the top scores outright with one female compound shooters from Newcastle


Newcastle guys, does anyone know how much it was to rent the removal truck you used for transporting and storing the targets last year that you borrowed from SIAP?

Nusport paid for it all

[compound boy]

I just have issues with team event scoring like the old EUG/AUS events, because we have never been able to field as many compound shooters, and we just lose out totally, not to mention, our guys who do shoot compound only two of us use Peepsights, let alone scopes.... and so at longer ranges we lose out once again.

If there is a fair method of determining a score, without bias of equipment (such as modifiers depending on what division or something) then I would be happy with that.

Can't agree with that. The EUG is a target event, so you should have been prepared. Peep only costs 5 bucks anyway. As for scopes, they make no difference. I know juniors who shoot 1200 - 1300 Ladies FITAs without one. I couldn't shoot with my scope at that last EUG (too windy anyway), if I had a simple pin, I would have switched then and there. Pin and Peep standard.

With StevenB being thoughtful enough to start this Uni Arc Forum, let's push the standards of uni archery and go forward.

Educate and Encourage. Else, we die out.

[Marcus]

I'm with compound boy on this one. All my PB's (mens FITA 1348, L Fita 1378, 300 Aust 1 indoor etc etc) were all shot without a scope. My wife also uses an open ring and shoots consistant 1330+ FITAs. My Dad is the same, 1350's without a scope. I use a scope now and find it offers no real advantage except that it makes me work harder, plus it's hard finding a open ring system I like.

Dave Barnes can beat almost any archer in this country, compound or recurve, and he uses no scope, no peep and no release aid.

A peep sight costs $10. Thats the cost of lunch at the coffee shop! Buy a bread roll for 2 days straight and you have a new peep.

End of the day do things like

A grade: 780+
B Grade: rest

If you can shoot 780+ you should compete against others who can too, regardless of peep release or bow type. I guess that many uni students are beginners? If so teach them here that you shouldn't get a prize for competing. Make them earn it.

With StevenB being thoughtful enough to start this Uni Arc Forum, let's push the standards of uni archery and go forward.
I think you guys are doing a great job here. I see many great ideas. Thanks for using the forum to expand and develop them.

[StevenB]

End of the day do things like

A grade: 780+
B Grade: rest

If you can shoot 780+ you should compete against others who can too, regardless of peep release or bow type. I guess that many uni students are beginners? If so teach them here that you shouldn't get a prize for competing. Make them earn it.



Me and Melissa Jennison where the only recurve archers to shoot over 800 and I think 780 aswell (I think)



With StevenB being thoughtful enough to start this Uni Arc Forum, let's push the standards of uni archery and go forward.
I think you guys are doing a great job here. I see many great ideas. Thanks for using the forum to expand and develop them.

and thank you Marcus for providing us with the forum to do this :) [/quote]

[recurve boy]

If there is a fair method of determining a score, without bias of equipment (such as modifiers depending on what division or something) then I would be happy with that.


Well given everyone knew the type of competition you should have been prepared with the appropriate equipment. Seriously, something is wrong when you lack basics like stringers and a (reasonably) full set of arrows.

On the other hand, as much as I'd like to go by international standards, the argument that "I know some Juniors that can do such and such" or "david barnes can do such and such" is stupid when the vast majority of uni archers (and archers in general) can't and shoot mostly on a social level. You can't seriously expect everyone to suddenly take it seriously and get competition equipment. We're going to need some way to even things up for a team score.

We want to encourage people to stick with the sport here. Not cull the number of uni archers. Then 10 yrs down the line uni archery WILL have evolved to international standard ... hopefully.

[recurve boy]

Excel, the only good MS product.
and they wrote it for Mac first!! :P

And the best version of the Office suite currently exists only on MAC OSX! :lol:

[Mrs StevenB]

Yes, but if we want archery to be recognised as a sport, we need to have some standard of competition, otherwise we might as well just turn up to the comp and drink beer. It can still be social while being competitive.

[Mrs StevenB]

Hey- in reference to scopes I've never in 16 years of shooting used a scope and once shot a 1355 Ladies Fita (at age 16 back when it would have been a world record) without it! You don't need up to date equipment to shoot good- just a good archer!!

[Flehrad]

The compound shooters pretty much always get a higher score,
and until a little more recently, we haven't had the ability to field as many compound shooters, and I guess as a fundamental (because I do agree, you don't need all the accessories to shoot good scores) they will tend to get higher scores.

Are the scores that you are mentioning all FITA, as in the 780+? Or is that for Geelong/Adelaide events?

I know for a fact that about 75% of our members are social, and have no intent ever of getting serious about the shooting, but they compete for fun, not for placings, scores or anything else. But we would like to keep our membership, and allow just simple shooting regardless of their scores and what not, but because of this, we have been restricted in our abilities to equip our more serious shooters with good equipment suitable for them.

I would like to encourage and develop the sport at the uni level, so that we can get more people out there shooting, but it is a long process, and I think that it is good we are all trying to work at the same goals.

I am hopefully going to get some equipment soon, and get my shooting up to scratch, and do some FITA rounds, so when we do affiliate with AA, Sydney Uni can rise once again to the occaision and actually stand a chance against Newcastle Uni 8)

And yes, thanks to SteveB for allowing such a environment for us Uni shooters to express our ideas.

[StevenB]

I know for a fact that about 75% of our members are social, and have no intent ever of getting serious about the shooting, but they compete for fun, not for placings, scores or anything else.

At my old club Warringah Archers we had over 60 members with most of them only social shooters, but I can tell you they still take there archery seriously

[compound boy]

All points raised have their merits. Do we want ALL or NOTHING? Or do we want 75% of social shooters?

I think at the very least, the social shooters should be taught good fundamentals in archery. And I mean they should be taught, and taught well. There should be someone knowledgeable around at all times.

Maybe we should have a standard bow class, shooting the 30m round of a FITA, or something, using only a beginner wooden bow and sight and stab. Then stagger the targets so the "comp" guys shoot some other distance.

Uni Arc can regulate their own standards.

Of course there's imbalance. Sure enough, I had Steve and Sharon (a.k.a. the WEAPON) on my team. FYI Sharon (a.k.a. the WEAPON) can shoot 1300 FITAs any day of the week, with no practice for a year, sober, hung over, hung under.

But, Newcastle Uni had no social club for the last 3 years. The only social event was Steve and I competing at all you can eat diners, and our team members watching on.

Are the Aussies the only ones who call university "uni"?

[compound boy]

Hey- in reference to scopes I've never in 16 years of shooting used a scope and once shot a 1355 Ladies Fita (at age 16 back when it would have been a world record) without it! You don't need up to date equipment to shoot good- just a good archer!!

Hey, chill out. We don't appreciate that type of talk in here. :wink:

[Aarleks]

I'm really enjoying this sharing of ideas for Uni Archery. It's exciting.
I think that the most important things for us at present are retaining our membership levels AND getting them down with the fundamentals of technique (as CompBoy says). So getting qualified coaches in should be a must (I note UNSW does this, and I assume UNewc').

As far as this relates to competition I would say that fun, easy rounds are the go for social shooters eg Geelong, Drake, Canberra etc. For the more 'serious' or competitive archers, the rounds should be more difficult to promote the development of skill. Things like the Adelaide are great, but to really get people up to standard we need to be getting competitive archers shooting the FITAs. I've only shot three and those have taught me a great deal about the aspects that need improving in my shooting. Far more than a Geelong or even an Adelaide would have.

For this year, I would argue that we stick with the Geelong/Adelaide combination at least for the 'socialites'. For the competitives it may be worth considering running a FITA. However, for us at USyd that would all depend on access to a big enough field. So it may well be that, for this year, the competition will remain Geelong/Adelaide just because it's easy for us to organise. Besides, it gives the affiliated archers a shot at State records for those rounds seeing as they are hardly shot anywhere else!! :D

[Shirt]

Show me the money!

Show me the rest of that avatar! Goddamn, I wish there were people about who looked like that... :D

[StevenB]

I'm really enjoying this sharing of ideas for Uni Archery. It's exciting.
I think that the most important things for us at present are retaining our membership levels AND getting them down with the fundamentals of technique (as CompBoy says). So getting qualified coaches in should be a must (I note UNSW does this, and I assume UNewc').

No most of the club are members of Westlakes or Newcastle City

but between me and Shar we have more than 20yrs experience in archery

I can understand that most clubs have social shooters but that isn't an excuse for them to be only shooting up to 30mts

[StevenB]

Show me the money!

Show me the rest of that avatar! Goddamn, I wish there were people about who looked like that... :D

I really shouldn't say anything about this :P

[Shirt]

Oh God, what've I gone and done...

It's just a hell of a nice pic, is all...

<worried>

[StevenB]

no need to worry

[Flehrad]

Time to chuck in my coupla cents in again.

I agree with a lot of what is being said for competitions, but I think we should start of nice and easy and slow, and build strongly over the years, and try to nuture the beginners that join up each year.

So I will cast my stance and say we will just stick with a Geelong/Adelaide competition for this year, perhaps if we can, we might hold a FITA later or something, perhaps at SIAP if needs be for Uni shooters.

I would say that, in respect to the beginner's equipment thread, that does have relavance here. I believe that you could easily use wooden takedowns to learn good fundamentals of shooting before spending big bucks on equipment. But it is the coaching that is needed, and encourangement and support from the "older" members of each club.

I would even like to go to the point of holding camps where uni shooters and beginners can learn stuff from "guest" shooters etc etc..... If that was feasible.

We need to retain members, social or not, and then draw them from social to serious, to competitive. And then we have something going. :)

And we should have more social events for fundraisers, more than the 0 that we have now.

A all you can eat competition between Uni shooters?
Hehehehe, We'll bring Julian and clean up 8)

[StevenB]

remember the big foot pizza from domminos had 24 slices well I could eat 58 slices when I was 15 in one seating

[Mrs StevenB]

Well there's a sport's specific archery coaching course on this weekend- I'm finally putting my money where my mouth is and going to give coaching a go. Unfortunately, this is my last year at uni, so I don't know how much I can contribute to building up uni archery, but if I have any free time this year or next I could always help with a coaching weekend or something. (This year I'm living in Newcastle, next year I'll be in Penrith).

[Flehrad]

Well, I was reading through the stuff about getting a accreditation for coaching, and don't you need a level 1 principles before doing a sports specific?....

I'm intending to do the level 1 princples in July and the November Sports Specific at homebush.
But perhaps this is more appropriate in the Coaching thread.

You can still be involved in Uni archery even if you are not at uni, especially, for Usyd, when we affiliate, you don't have to be a uni student to join....

[recurve boy]

Isn't principles Level 0? And no, I believe you don't really need it to do the Level 1 Sports Specific. But its a good idea and they prefer it if you do. Watch out for symptoms of over coaching. They include reduced time to shoot yourself and increased socializing. :o The reasons I decided to not do the Level 1.

[Flehrad]

Well, I was reading (and I think it was ANSW) that to do the level 1 sports specific, you needed the level 1 principles, so does it mean you can do a level 0 sports specific???

Unfortunately, there are a few people in the club at the start of the year who suffer from overcoaching because we have so many beginners, and they aren't paid or qualified for anything at all, and they don't get to shoot for weeks, and they get rather frustrated about it all :x

But things are a little better now that it has slacked off a little into the year.