Longbow Shooters

[wysper]

Hi All

Is there much of a long bow following in NZ?
Any long bow shooters in Hamilton?

Although I am a compound shooter at the moment, I would love to try/find more about the long bow

cheers
wysper

[ec]

hi, i'm not a kiwi but i did change to longbow for a while. i liked the 'become the arrow' book by byron ferguson. it paralleled what i already did quite nicely, it covered arrow tuning through to aiming etc. a really good read for the technical bits but still a bit 'american' in the side commentary but that is easily ignored.
i enjoyed it but went too high in poundage straight of the bat which is never good.

[The One]

Hi All

Is there much of a long bow following in NZ?
Any long bow shooters in Hamilton?

Although I am a compound shooter at the moment, I would love to try/find more about the long bow

cheers
wysper

Not that many longbow shooters in target circles, and couldn't tell you about field. Jtimps used to shoot a longbow before converting to compound. I know there was one shooter up at Mt Green that did longbow, called John Deck. But few and far between in Auckland. Maybe some others will know of others around the country?

[Brumbies Country]

Hi All

Is there much of a long bow following in NZ?
Any long bow shooters in Hamilton?

Although I am a compound shooter at the moment, I would love to try/find more about the long bow

cheers
wysper

I bought my longbow over from Oz and shot field at your Archery NZ Nationals in January. There was one other longbow shooter, Simon Hollman from Gisborne. I also shot at Massey which I understand is an NZFAA club and was told there were a few longbow shooters in NZFAA. You have to enjoy a longbow for the challenge it presents.

[wysper]

I like the idea of shooting bare bow. no sights, etc.
But with having compound as well I get all the fun of using technology too!

With very few longbow shooters, it might be difficult to pick up a second hand bow (cheapish) to give it a go.

[gizzy]

We have two longbow shooters here in Gisborne they compete in all of our shoots, they are both affiliated to ANZ they enjoy there shooting, they are also in a medieval club thats what got them interested in archery, We have an american long bow for sale over here which can be used to compete against the longbows.

[Sir Slick]

Have one or two long bow shooters in Wellington that shoot at the minor tournaments but dont really travel.......there were a couple of longbowers at the North Islands this year as well.

There used to be a guy down in wellington who made longbows, good ones too but dont know if hes still around.

If you go looking on the net there are quite a few places that do supply longbows and you see them periodically on the likes of ebay and trademe etc.

Another option you could consider if you like the idea of 'keeping it simple' is looking at a cheap recurve. FITA recognises barebow and standard bow divisions with there own seperate rule sets although not many people shoot in those now either.

[wysper]

There used to be a guy down in wellington who made longbows, good ones too but dont know if hes still around.



any ideas on how to find him?

[Sir Slick]

Nah, haven't been able to track him down for you.........I have a funny feeling you might now need to dig about six feet down..........................
detective: I'll investigate a bit more for you though just to make sure.

[wysper]

Thanks Sir Slick,

Seems like there might be a guy in Tauranga too, seen him selling stuff on trademe but can't find much about him.

Gizzy, can you PM me some info on the bow

cheers

[John Carter]

Hi new member here.
On the subject of longbows,not much happening in Hamilton.
I'm a member of Pineridge in Manukua, and until resently was the only longbow shooter there.
Now we have four,two young guys I've introduced to archery,and one other guy, a resent import from South Africa who has also bought two recurve shooters to the club with him."Good value that bloke":thumb: .
There's about 6 active longbowers in the Massey club and a few around the bay of plenty.
There are a few custom bowyers around the country but they are very hard to make contact with.
There is Motu Magnum,which has a web site you could search for.
Then there is a gentleman in Hamilton that makes a really beautifull longbow,but good luck tracking him down.
Ian Hunter from Auckland has resently made his longbows available through
"Advanced Archery" in Auckland,their worth a look for sure.
I belive there is also a bowyer in the south island making very nice recurves and longbows,,,again best of luck finding him,,,,maybe the local clubs down that way could help.
OK,now the personal stuff,
I've been shooting longbow/recurve on an off for 35 years but now shoot LB only.Most of my shooting has been hunting but more resently I've started attending competitions.The first I went to was the Trad shoot in Te Puke in March,I placed 3rd over all there.
Then the just finished Kiwi 3D series whre I placed 3rd in longbow (again)
We've just had the 1st round of the NZFAA bow hunter league last month and I placed 1st in that,now unless something goes horribly wrong I will win the series,,,,,gott'a stay positive in this game huh;) .
Of all the flash bows available around the world,and all the big names with the big reputations,,and all the big money you can spend trying to keep up with or be better than the Jones,,,,,,I shoot Samick,,,have done for close to 20 years an will continue to for another 20.
The best value for your money you will get anywhere.
Cheers,
John.

[wysper]

Hi John

Any idea why these longbow makers are so hard to find?
And good luck on winning your shoot!
I hope to have a go at a competition soon.
I shot for my first time at 50mtrs on the weekend.

I am pleased to say - all arrows hit the target. :archer:

I will keep hunting for a longbow - but not in too much of a rush as I have to save up the cash. I know I can buy them from over seas but would really like the chance to try them out first.

[John Carter]

Wysper,I have no idea why the bowyers hide away from us like this.
The Bowyer from hamilton made a bow for the president of the Rodney archery club, so if you run into him at a shoot, you could talk to him about the Hamilton Bowyer.
You can also drop into Advanced archery to see one of Ian Hunters bows.
One thing about the longbow though mate,,,you don't really get to "try them out" as such.
It takes so long to really come to grips with the things that a short play in a shop isn't really going to tell you much.
What you have to do is look at as many as you can and then buy the bow you simply like the look of.
After that,it's all hard work,,,,the type of hard work that does you good though.
One bow I would recommend is Samick's Verna.
It's Samicks top of the line longbow and has quite fast reflex/deflex limbs and a very pronounced locator grip.
I'm currently shooting a self modified Samick SLB69 which I'll be updating to a Verna very soon.A new SLB is about $400 and the Verna $495 from Mike Smerdon at archery imports in Henderson, west AK.
I'll happily admit I'm totaly biased, but I honestly belive the Verna is as good a bow as any of the high priced bows.
Archery Imports has their own web site if you'd like to do a google search for it.
Anyway mate,good luck in your search and I hope to meet you soon.
John.

[Bent stick]

Hi there
I shoot a laminated English Longbow as per ArcheryNZ rules. I changed to the laminated bow after I broke three self bows in one year. The courier company broke another and my bowyer had a few fail during construction.
So if you want to get into shooting traditional then the American flat bows are much more forgiving and durable than a laminated English longbow, and self bows (made from a single piece of wood) are the least forgiving and durable.
That said, a flat bow is allowed an arrow shelf where the English longbow is not. Arrow shelves make it a lot easier.
There is a flat bow manufacturer in Te Puke near Tauranga. He is associated with the O'Hara Wildlife Estate, and sells how to make flatbow instruction books on Trademe occasionally.
If you want to jump into the deep end and try your hand at the English longbow
Then I can recommend my bowyer.
Charlie Officer
115 Rolleston Street
Rakaia
New Zealand
Ph 03 3027915

He makes fine self bows from Manuka and both of my curent laminated bows which are bamboo backed with Kwila.

www.NZAP.co.nz also sells a range of self bows.

Before you buy or have one made, be aware of the competition rules regarding the bow types, for instance if you want to enter ArcheryNZ competitions:
http://www.archerynz.co.nz/Portals/0/Documents/shooting_rules.pdf
Paragraph 15.1 for the Longbow, and 15.2 for the Flatbow.

Modern bow archers get disappointed when they don't get all on the gold every end. Traditional archers get excited when they hit the target.

[Brumbies Country]

Hi Bentstick

With an English longbow and from Gisborne, you just about have to be Simon Hollman, who I shot longbow with in your NZ Field Championships beginning of the year. Really admired that longbow of yours-truly a work of art and wellcomed that special fellowship that longbowers inevitably have.

Yes the American flatbow type is a bit easier to shoot, having as it does variable degrees of centreshot. In addition the Archery Australia rules allow for some degree of reflex though my own LBs follow a continuous curve.

Have also to echo John Carter's sentiments re value for money Samicks. I have two custom LB's but have actually shot by best ABA scores with a Samick Outlander. I do find the two custom bows (Bagend Bows-Joe Vardon) are beautifully smooth to shoot as far as longbows go, whereas the Outlander knocks my shoulder joints and neck round a bit more.

Cheers

Simon Bain

[gizzy]

Glad to see you on the forum Bentstick, its a good picture of you in the latest archer magazine proving you can group with a longbow

[Short_Shooters]

Although i live in WA, i shoot longbow and if you want to could go to www.molinjor.com and see Chris Binyons' site. He makes some nice longbowat our club. Good Luck!

[ribbonwood]

Hi Wysper,
I shoot and build longbows and live in Hamilton. I know of two other longbow bowyers and shooters here as well, plus a couple of longbow shooters in HBay and a bowyer in Tauranga. There quite a few longbow shooters in NZ but we usually keep a low profile, Take for example the Harihari Bowhunters club. A strong club with quite a few longbow hunters.
Drop me a line sometime, and we can go out and bend some bows.

Reagrds
James

[ribbonwood]

Dave Hillary was a part time bowyer and all round nice guy living in Hamilton about 8 years ago, but has now moved to Tauranga. He has recently stopped building bows which is a bit of a shame. He was quite prolific and there are alot of his bows floating around, infact, there was one on trademe last week

Patrick James in Dinsdale, Hamilton and a top class 'old school' bowyer, and may be worth tracking down, unfortunately hes not very well and is not making much equipment anymore, but what he does make is excellent.

All I know about the Wellington bowyer is that he signs his bows 'Prescott', and he was quite old in the late 1990's. He may even be dead now. From what I saw, he made a very nice 'Howard Hill' style longbow- straight limbs, peaked grip and very nice glue lines

pete marsh from Motu Magnum gets no recommendation from myself , or from alot of the other people he has dealt with.

I make a few bows myself, both self and composite, but I usually keep them for my collection or give them to some of my hunting buddies

Regards

James

[Ashman]

Wysper,I have no idea why the bowyers hide away from us like this.
The Bowyer from hamilton made a bow for the president of the Rodney archery club, so if you run into him at a shoot, you could talk to him about the Hamilton Bowyer.
You can also drop into Advanced archery to see one of Ian Hunters bows.
One thing about the longbow though mate,,,you don't really get to "try them out" as such.
It takes so long to really come to grips with the things that a short play in a shop isn't really going to tell you much.
What you have to do is look at as many as you can and then buy the bow you simply like the look of.
After that,it's all hard work,,,,the type of hard work that does you good though.
One bow I would recommend is Samick's Verna.
It's Samicks top of the line longbow and has quite fast reflex/deflex limbs and a very pronounced locator grip.
I'm currently shooting a self modified Samick SLB69 which I'll be updating to a Verna very soon.A new SLB is about $400 and the Verna $495 from Mike Smerdon at archery imports in Henderson, west AK.
I'll happily admit I'm totaly biased, but I honestly belive the Verna is as good a bow as any of the high priced bows.
Archery Imports has their own web site if you'd like to do a google search for it.
Anyway mate,good luck in your search and I hope to meet you soon.
John.

Great post.. Not in NZ but looking to get into longbow (flatbow) so will be checking out Molinjor. As per above, it is even more limited being a lefthander so I was interested in how to choose a bow etc. From the looks of things I need to buy something that I like the look of and take the punt. This makes me think I shouldn't spend too much on my first longbow but upgrade when I know what I'm looking for... Opinions?

[DerekTheWonderFerret]

Great post.. Not in NZ but looking to get into longbow (flatbow) so will be checking out Molinjor. As per above, it is even more limited being a lefthander so I was interested in how to choose a bow etc. From the looks of things I need to buy something that I like the look of and take the punt. This makes me think I shouldn't spend too much on my first longbow but upgrade when I know what I'm looking for... Opinions?

Hi Ash

When I got back into archery and decided I just wanted to shoot (as opposed to play with equipment) I bought the only readily available cheap factory longbow in the shop, a 45# Internature. It is reflex/deflex, looks pretty, and has a nice grip shape. It shoot well enough to get me back into archery, pick up some form again. Later, wanting more performance and a generally nicer bow I had Joe Vardon (Bag End Bows) from my club in Adelaide make me a 50# bow. It has much narrower limbs than the Internature (which makes it faster), is straight layed, beautifully simple and shoots soooo much quicker and flatter.

But it took me more than 2 years to come to terms with the extra 5#. I'm only now starting to shoot it strongly and with reasonable form, which has been quite frustrating.

My advice is that, at least as much as the physical appearance of the bow, make sure that you don't over-bow yourself. Just because you can draw it doesn't mean you can achieve good form. It's much better to have a lighter bow which struggles for range but lets you shoot well than a heavy, faster bow that you can't take the time to settle into the shot with.

You need more draw weight than with a recurve (probably about 15# to get similar cast I'd say), but going too heavy is completely counter-productive unless you want to work pretty hard to adjust your body to the bow. Better to start light, then get a better, heavier bow later.

I've seen Chris Binyon's (Molinjar) bows and they look beautiful. Definately worth a look. And Chris is a fantastic bloke, I've shot with him a few times. I think someone posted a URL to his web site earlier.

Good luck with the longbow. And remember to have fun. Statistics show that, on average, a longbow shooter enjoys his or her archery 40% more than the average recurve shooter and a whopping 90% more than a compounder with a dicky release aid.

[Ashman]

Thanks for the advice.. There certainly seems to be a camaraderie amongst longbowers.

[ribbonwood]

Hi Guys,
I thought I might add that some of the new glass laminated deflex reflex "hybrid" bows are just as fast as recurves. The new black widow line has been rated as shooting 10 grain per pound of draw weight at draw weight + 130fps.
eg. a 50# bow would shoot a 500 grain arrow at 180 fps. Thats pretty damn fast.

James

[Brumbies Country]

Hi Ash

When I got back into archery and decided I just wanted to shoot (as opposed to play with equipment) I bought the only readily available cheap factory longbow in the shop, a 45# Internature. It is reflex/deflex, looks pretty, and has a nice grip shape. It shoot well enough to get me back into archery, pick up some form again. Later, wanting more performance and a generally nicer bow I had Joe Vardon (Bag End Bows) from my club in Adelaide make me a 50# bow. It has much narrower limbs than the Internature (which makes it faster), is straight layed, beautifully simple and shoots soooo much quicker and flatter.

But it took me more than 2 years to come to terms with the extra 5#. I'm only now starting to shoot it strongly and with reasonable form, which has been quite frustrating.

My advice is that, at least as much as the physical appearance of the bow, make sure that you don't over-bow yourself. Just because you can draw it doesn't mean you can achieve good form. It's much better to have a lighter bow which struggles for range but lets you shoot well than a heavy, faster bow that you can't take the time to settle into the shot with.

Good luck with the longbow. And remember to have fun. Statistics show that, on average, a longbow shooter enjoys his or her archery 40% more than the average recurve shooter and a whopping 90% more than a compounder with a dicky release aid.

Great Post Derek

Love those statistics and reckon they are spot on! Re Jo Vardon's longbows I have three of them and reckon they are real thoroughbreds, possibly taking a little longer to master than a more sluggish bow of the same poundage but in my book easier on the musculoskeletal system than other longbows I have shot.

Very wise words re not overbowing. I have actually found over field distances up to 48metres shooting ABA 3D targets that there is little difference in my PB using the 48lb LB, the 40lb LB and the 30lb LB. I can get the Aust open LB clout distance of 145 m with the right arrows with the 30lb bow. No need to knock the body round too much!

[Fred021]

We have two longbow shooters here in Gisborne they compete in all of our shoots, they are both affiliated to ANZ they enjoy there shooting, they are also in a medieval club thats what got them interested in archery, We have an american long bow for sale over here which can be used to compete against the longbows.

Have the longbow archers in NZ, stopped shooting, or have they just stopped shooting in outdoor target archery tournaments?

I have looked for longbow archers in the outdoor target archery tournaments results, but haven't seen any longbow archers' results in outdoor target archery, in NZ, for over a year, now.

[gizzy]

Have the longbow archers in NZ, stopped shooting, or have they just stopped shooting in outdoor target archery tournaments?

I have looked for longbow archers in the outdoor target archery tournaments results, but haven't seen any longbow archers' results in outdoor target archery, in NZ, for over a year, now.
We have lost our long bow shooters, Simon broke his bow but Nina still has hers, they have moved to Christchurch so haven't seen them for awhile.
Simon intends to join the Christchurch club as soon as he can get a new bow made.

[Fred021]

Not that many longbow shooters in target circles, and couldn't tell you about field. Jtimps used to shoot a longbow before converting to compound. I know there was one shooter up at Mt Green that did longbow, called John Deck. But few and far between in Auckland. Maybe some others will know of others around the country?

Does John Deck, still shoot longbow?

I see that he is the holder of the longbow record in NZ, for shooting the FITA 90m (score 533, 25/01/2004) and Double FITA 90m (score 1014, 25/01/2004) rounds, and Australia has no records for longbow archers shooting those rounds.

[Leo]

Have the longbow archers in NZ, stopped shooting, or have they just stopped shooting in outdoor target archery tournaments?

I have looked for longbow archers in the outdoor target archery tournaments results, but haven't seen any longbow archers' results in outdoor target archery, in NZ, for over a year, now.

Welcome back. Looks like Peter will need to change his focus from gerunding to the use and abuse of commas. :munch:

[Marcus]

and Australia has no records for longbow archers shooting those rounds.
Why would they? AA does not recognise the FITA 90m round as a longbow round. Perhaps you should submit a motion changing the FITA round for longbow from a 60m to a 90m one and then they will drop the 60m records and show the 90m ones instead.
AA is consistent here as they do not recognise the FITA 60m for Open compounders either

[Fred021]

Why would they? AA does not recognise the FITA 90m round as a longbow round. Perhaps you should submit a motion changing the FITA round for longbow from a 60m to a 90m one and then they will drop the 60m records and show the 90m ones instead.
AA is consistent here as they do not recognise the FITA 60m for Open compounders either

Ah, and, where do you get your information that a FITA round exists for outdoor target archery for longbows?

The round that is shot in Australia and New Zealand, by adult longbow archers, is what was previously known as the FITA Cadet Ladies Round, a round to be shot only by Cadet Female archers, in outdoor target archery.

FITA does not recognise longbows in outoor target archery, so, no FITA round for longbow archers, exists.

I assume, from the nature of your posting, that you are of the opinion that Archery Australia, and, Archery New Zealand (which is supposed to be the subject of this forum), should not recognise achievement beyond the bare minimum required in each respective country, and, should remain indicative that their archers are greatly inferior to the British Archers, for whom, the GNAS accords recognition of achievement, beyond the bare minium, as is shown at http://www.sportfocus.com/reguser/dynabizinfo/download.cfm?number=8958 , where, for the FITA 90m round, not only are adult male longbow archers included, but, also, adult female longbow archers, junior male longbow archers, and, junior female longbow archers.

Also, in that document, under the Ladies FITA round, or, FITA 70m round, which is not shot by their adult male longbow archers, are records for adult female longbow archers, junior male longbow archers, and, junior female longbow archers.

And, the only longbow archers in the UK, for whom records are held, for the Cadet Ladies FITA round, known in Australia and NZ, as the Fremantle round, are for junior male and junior female, longbow archers.

And, also, for each of those divisions, for each of those rounds, are records for double rounds being shot.

So, the GNAS recognises achievement by its archers, beyond the bare minimum, as opposed to Archery Australia, and, apparently, according to you so also should Archery NZ, not recognise achievement beyond the bare minimum, and, therefore, excelling in archery, should be discouraged in these two countries, according to you.

Personally, I would rather that recognition of achievement, beyond the bare minimum, be given, and, development and advancement of archers, should be encouraged, especially of longbow archers, in both Australia and New Zealand.

And, since you contend that Archery Australia is consistent in its records and recognition of records, could you please explain why, as an example, for Flight Archery, as stated at http://www.archery.org.au/lib/pdf/chap13010907.pdf , on page 2,
"3. Weight Classes
 The recognised weight classes shall be:
Men & Junior Men:
Unlimited, up to 40 kg, up to 33 kg and up to 25 kg.
Women & Junior Women:
Unlimited, up to 25kg and up to 18 kg.
Intermediate and Cubs:
Up to 25kg and up to 18 kg."

and at http://www.archery.org.au/lib/pdf/chap4010907.pdf, on page 13, is stated
"Schedule 4 A.5 Tournament Records – Flight Archery
Flight Archery Records may be claimed for Recurve, Compound and Longbow
styles in the following weight classes:
 Men and Junior Boys (Under 18 Boys) Unlimited and Limited (25kg)
 Women and Junior Girls (Under 18 Girls) Unlimited and Limited (18 kg).
 Cadet, Intermediate and Cub (Under 16 Boys and Girls) Up to 25 kg, up to 18
kg."
,

so, for Flight Archery, while Archery Australia is supposed to recognise particular weight divisions, it does not in fact, recognise them, as shown by the shooting rules.

So, Archery Australia, is not consistent, in its records, with its shooting rules, as "it does not recognise what it recognises".

This is one of the reasons, that shooting records need to be a bit more liberal, in what they cover, so that, whether it is Australia, NZ, or the UK, recognition is given, for achievement.

So, in answer to your question; "Why would they?", I am reminded of the immortal words of John F Kennedy, in the doctored version of the song "What the world needs now" (originally by Jackie deShannon); "Some people see things as they are, and say, "Why", I see things that are not, and say "Why not?", or, something like that.

And, in archery, achievement beyond the bare minimum, should be encouraged, by recognition, including by way of records, in whatever country, be it Australia, NZ, or the UK, if the national governing body wants its archers to improve.

[Marcus]

http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/cute-puppy-pictures-blah-blah-talking.jpg

[The One]

Fred, are you suggesting that because I can't claim a record for the Women's FITA line for Men's Compound, that I am somehow being repressed?

If longbow shooters in NZ want to change the shoot they do, they are welcome to rock up to the AGM, make a motion, and change it! Sitting on the sideline suggesting there is a conspiracy against longbow archers is hardly productive.

P.S. ANZ voted to stop recognising double rounds quite a while ago.

[Fred021]

Personally, I would rather that recognition of achievement, beyond the bare minimum, be given, and, development and advancement of archers, should be encouraged, especially of longbow archers, in both Australia and New Zealand.

...

This is one of the reasons, that shooting records need to be a bit more liberal, in what they cover, so that, whether it is Australia, NZ, or the UK, recognition is given, for achievement.

...

And, in archery, achievement beyond the bare minimum, should be encouraged, by recognition, including by way of records, in whatever country, be it Australia, NZ, or the UK, if the national governing body wants its archers to improve.

Now, it might be asked, "so, what does this have to do with Archery Nz, or, archery in NZ?

Well it appears that the clubs connected to Archery NZ (where affiliation is apparently, not mandatory), have, in total, less than half a dozen longbow archers.

I have no idea as to how many archers in total, are affiliated to ArcheryNZ.

In Western Australia, where affiliation of archers who are member of target archery clubs, to both the Archery Society of Western Australia (ASWA), and, to Archery Australia, is mandatory, we appear to have somewhere around 500 archers affiliated to
ASWA, and, of those, it appears that about 30-40, are longbow archers; either shooting only longbows ("Full-time longbow archers"), or shoot longbows sometimes, and other bow types, other times ("Part-time longbow archers").

Now, Western Australia has a population of about 2 million, which is about half of the population of NZ, from what I understand.

And, apart from the number of longbow archers in NZ, in target archery (as opposed to IFAA and bowhunter clubs), totalling less than half a dozen, I have no idea of how many archers are affiliated to ArcheryNZ (where affiliation is voluntary).

But, of the longbow archers in WA, I do not know of any, now, who have "recently" shot more than 60m (the longest distance in the Fremantle round), in target archery.

But, in South Australia, which, I think, has a similar population to Western Australia, longbow archers have shot the target distance of 100m, in a round that is way beyond the capability of longbow archers in Western Australia, and, is longer than most compound archers in Australia, have shot, in target archery.

I will call that round, here, the Cressy round (it was hosted by the Cressy Bowmen, and, organised by Graham Jones)

See http://www.targetplot.com.au/archerysa/pdfs/philly2006.pdf, for results, and distances involved.

From what I understand, the top longbow archers in Australia, of both genders, shot in that tournament.

And, some of Australia's top archers, both compound and recurve, also shot in that tournament.

Now, that round is not an officially recognised Archery Australia round, or, Archery NZ round, and is certainly not a FITA round (higher level than a FITA round).

But, the results show true achievement, by all who shot in that tournament.

In Western Australia, we have now, no longbow archers, capable of shooting in that tournament.

In NZ, John Decks, would have been capable, being the national record holder for the FITA 90m round, and the Double FITA 90m round, and, from what I understand Simon Holman has also shot the FITA 90m round.

In the Archery Australia National Championships, a new award has been created in the last year or so; the Keith Longbottom Memorial Longbow Award, for the most outstanding longbow archer in the national championships.

Keith Longbottom had shot the FITA 90m round, when he was alive, and, had, I think, shot the Double FITA 90m round.

But, there is no record of that, as the shoot is beyond the bare minimum tournament round, for longbow archers in Australia, and so no records are kept by Archery Australia, for longbow archers shooting those two rounds.

Keith was the only longbow archer in Western Australia, who was at a similar level to the South Australian archers who shot in the Cressy round tournament, and, from what I understand, Archery NZ has had two longbow archers, at that level; John Decks, and, Simon Hollman.

This is why, especially for exceptional achievement, such as FITA 90m round scores for longbow archers, and, the scores of rounds such as the Cressy round (which should be made an officially recognised round in Archery Australia, and Archery NZ), should be recognised in the national Tournament Records of each of the countries, to show recognition of exceptional achivement, and, to encourage archers, in both countries, especially longbow archers, so as to encourage participation, which, in the case of Archery NZ, where affiliation is voluntary, rather than mandatory, to get more longbow archers shooting, and, affiliated, to compete against Archery Australia longbow archers, perhaps, in a Trans-Tasman longbow archer tournament, perhaps, even, either via the Internet, or, as a postal tournament.

Perhaps, it could even be done, like one of the rugby competitions, where a team from each state in Australia competes against a team from NZ, or, done as individual archers, from each state/country.

Due to the numbers of longbow archers in each, perhaps, a team of three males, and, one or two females, and, taking the average score of the team members, as the result for the team, to be used in choosing the winner for each.

Now, we need to find more longbow archers in NZ, ....

[Clare Barnes]

Now, we need to find more longbow archers in NZ, ....

You could move there ... please. :munch:

[Archangel]

Fred,

We regret to inform you that you have used up your entire month's supply of commas. Please refrain from any more abuse to this common punctuation mark until at least 1/12/08.

Thank you,

Your friendly comma protection team.

[Marcus]

Actually I'm convinced.
This morning I shot a 10m round in my shop. It was a tournament and I was lucky enough to win. I got a trophy and am currently wearing it around my neck. It's awkward, but I'm proud.
Anyway the score was a record and a huge achievement and yet despite the 48 emails I sent to AA this morning has yet to appear on the AA website OR in the records book.
This is CLEARLY a discrimination towards compound shooters all around the world.

Now I've got to go and write a letter to the council about the lack of white lines in my car park.

[Fred021]

Fred, are you suggesting that because I can't claim a record for the Women's FITA line for Men's Compound, that I am somehow being repressed?

If longbow shooters in NZ want to change the shoot they do, they are welcome to rock up to the AGM, make a motion, and change it! Sitting on the sideline suggesting there is a conspiracy against longbow archers is hardly productive.

P.S. ANZ voted to stop recognising double rounds quite a while ago.

1. I am not suggesting any conspiracy against longbow archers, by Archery NZ. I am suggesting that both Archery NZ and Archery Australia, could give better recognition of achievement by longbow archers, and thus encourage participation by longbow archers.

2. I did not suggest that archers should be able to claim records for achievements for rounds that are lower than their designated rounds. I suggested that records should be kept and maintained, for achievements in rounds that are at a higher level than a particular archer's designated tournament round, so that, for example, if a 14 year old girl, can ousthoot adult women of the same bow type, in a FITA 90m round, that should be recognised.

3. Regarding the "If longbow shooters in NZ want to change the shoot they do, they are welcome to rock up to the AGM, make a motion, and change it!", I was not suggesting that rounds be cahnged, only that recognition be given, by way of records, for rounds that are at a higher level than an archer's designated tournament round.

4. Also, can an archer have a decision of the Board, regarding records, that "is final", overturned, at an AGM?

Archery NZ has a "Athletes' Commission Regional Representative", up your way, apparently, but no member of the board, now, who is an "Athletes' Convenor", although I do not know whether that position has a voting role in the Board.

The "Athletes' Commission Regional Representative", from Auckland, may be aware of a recent decision of the Board, involving not allowing records to be kept for a particular bow type and age/gender division, conflicting with the Shooting Rules.

"P.S. ANZ voted to stop recognising double rounds quite a while ago." - was that a decision of the Board, or, of an AGM? Either way, it is an unfortunate decision.

5. "I can't claim a record for the Women's FITA line for Men's Compound," - I note (and, I think that it should not be changed), that the ranking lists include an adult male recurve archer, in the ranking list for the FITA 70m round.

I think that achievement should be recognised. That, to me, is what it is about, in the competitive sport of archery.

6. I understood, from the rules, that an archer cannot propose changes at an AGM, such as changing a shoot (which involves changing the Shooting Rules). I understood that a motion to make such a change, had to come from a club, or from the Board itself, and that the Board has the final say.

[Fred021]

You could move there ... please. :munch:

So, is that the official policy of Archery Australia - stop the development of archery in Australia and New Zealand?

If you read the posting to which you made that response, you will find proposals for the development of archery.

It is unfortunate that an official of Archery Australia, seeks to stifle the development of archery in Australia and NZ.

I wonder whether this is done with the official approval of the Archery Australia Board.

[Marcus]

It is unfortunate that an official of Archery Australia, seeks to stifle the devlopment of archery in Australia and NZ.

Why stop at 2 countries?

I hear she's has it in for Seychelles as well

[Clare Barnes]

But, in South Australia, which, I think, has a similar population to Western Australia, longbow archers have shot the target distance of 100m, in a round that is way beyond the capability of longbow archers in Western Australia, and, is longer than most compound archers in Australia, have shot, in target archery.

I will call that round, here, the Cressy round (it was hosted by the Cressy Bowmen, and, organised by Graham Jones)

See http://www.targetplot.com.au/archerysa/pdfs/philly2006.pdf, for results, and distances involved.

Despite it being listed on the website you link to as the Graham Jones’ Metric Philadelphia Tournament? :roll:

The Philadelphia part of the name is explained by the listing (in Schedule 9B of the AA Rules on unofficial historical rounds) of the Philadelphia shot over 100/90/80/70/60/50/40 yards. The Metric bit is because it is shot using those distances in meters instead of yards.

[Marcus]

2. I did not suggest that archers should be able to claim records for achievements for rounds that are lower than their designated rounds. I suggested that records should be kept and maintained, for achievements in rounds that are at a higher level than a particular archer's designated tournament round, so that, for example, if a 14 year old girl, can ousthoot adult women of the same bow type, in a FITA 90m round, that should be recognised.

You should learn about how the rules ACTUALLY work before you continue to embarrass yourself.
If a 14 year old girl outshoots the Open Womens FITA record then she gets the record in Open Womens and Junior Girls. However NOT in Cadet where that is NOT the designated round. That's all fine.
And 90m FITAs are not recognised as Womens rounds.

So wrong on both counts.

[Archangel]

2. I did not suggest that archers should be able to claim records for achievements for rounds that are lower than their designated rounds. I suggested that records should be kept and maintained, for achievements in rounds that are at a higher level than a particular archer's designated tournament round, so that, for example, if a 14 year old girl, can ousthoot adult women of the same bow type, in a FITA 90m round, that should be recognised.
If a 14 year old girl outshoots the senior records, she can claim it. Easy.

4. Also, can an archer have a decision of the Board, regarding records, that "is final", overturned, at an AGM?
Yes.

Archery NZ has a "Athletes' Commission Regional Representative", up your way, apparently, but no member of the board, now, who is an "Athletes' Convenor", although I do not know whether that position has a voting role in the Board.
The Athlete's Commission Convenor is a voting position on the Board. Currently the position is empty.

The "Athletes' Commission Regional Representative", from Auckland, may be aware of a recent decision of the Board, involving not allowing records to be kept for a particular bow type and age/gender division, conflicting with the Shooting Rules.
I don't think anyone has a clue what you're talking about. Why don't you just come out and say it?

"P.S. ANZ voted to stop recognising double rounds quite a while ago." - was that a decision of the Board, or, of an AGM? Either way, it is an unfortunate decision.
It's a decision of ancient history now.
IMO it was an excellent decision because we have far too many records. If we had less then achieving one is a big deal and worthy of congratulations, whereas at the moment there's such a huge list of them, many of which haven't been competed for in years, that nobody really cares about the majority of them.

5. "I can't claim a record for the Women's FITA line for Men's Compound," - I note (and, I think that it should not be changed), that the ranking lists include an adult male recurve archer, in the ranking list for the FITA 70m round.
Clearly the ranking list is not the same thing as the records. Who'd have thought...

6. I understood, from the rules, that an archer cannot propose changes at an AGM, such as changing a shoot (which involves changing the Shooting Rules). I understood that a motion to make such a change, had to come from a club, or from the Board itself, and that the Board has the final say.
There is no such restriction. The only thing that has to be recommended through a club is life membership. At the AGM the members can change anything - if they can change the Constitution they can certainly change the shooting rules.

Can I suggest that over here in NZ we're quite happy with our current setup regarding records, and when we want your opinion on it you'll know, because we'll ask you for it. Until then...

[Fred021]

Despite it being listed on the website you link to as the Graham Jones’ Metric Philadelphia Tournament? :roll:

The Philadelphia part of the name is explained by the listing (in Schedule 9B of the AA Rules on unofficial historical rounds) of the Philadelphia shot over 100/90/80/70/60/50/40 yards. The Metric bit is because it is shot using those distances in meters instead of yards.

Since you want to be pedantic about it, the target faces used, are, I believe, also, not the imperial, 5-zone, 4' target faces, as used in the Imperial Philadelphia Round, but, the particular round shot in this tournament, uses FITa 10-zone, 122cm target faces.

With that, and, given that the distances shot, are not the metric equivalent of the Imperial Philadelphia Round, but, are in fact, longer, with the longest distance being 100m (the longest known target distance shot in Australia), which is longer than is shot in any other recognised target archery tournament in Australia, the round that is shot in the Graham Jones Metric Philadelphia Tournament, is too different to the Imperial Philadelphia Round, to be regarded simply as a metric equivalent, and, deserves recognition in its own right.

And, the name "Cressy Round", is much simpler and more concise, than the "Graham Jones Metric Philadelphia Round".

But, this particular forum is supposed to be about archery relating to NZ, and, the antipathy towards that, by an Archery Australia official, is not appropriate.

[Clare Barnes]

And, the name "Cressy Round", is much simpler and more concise, than the "Graham Jones Metric Philadelphia Round".

But, this particular forum is supposed to be about archery relating to NZ, and, the antipathy towards that, by an Archery Australia official, is not appropriate.

The round is just called a Metric Philadelphia.

I have antipathy towards archery in NZ? I suggest you check a few facts before making such statements.

[Fred021]

There is no such restriction. The only thing that has to be recommended through a club is life membership. At the AGM the members can change anything - if they can change the Constitution they can certainly change the shooting rules.



I was going by Section 13 of the Admin Rules of Archery NZ, as published on the web site.

If they no longer apply, then, so be it.

Also, I note that section 9.5 of the Constitution of Archery NZ, states

"
9.5 The functions of the Board include:
...
Amendments to the Rules of the Association
"

If this is not how it works, then, so be it.

I was just going by the documents published by Archery NZ.

[tropicalshot]

I suggested that records should be kept and maintained, for achievements in rounds that are at a higher level than a particular archer's designated tournament round, so that, for example, if a 14 year old girl, can ousthoot adult women of the same bow type, in a FITA 90m round, that should be recognised.


i agree,
maybe you or other traditional shooters should put your hand up and offer to keep the records for Australia and New zealand, i am sure that if all the information was collated and presented correctly, then they would be published for others to peruse.
yes at tne moment you can go up in divisions if you want for recurve and compound, male or female. and if traditional wish to do this then i cant see a problem(except tournament organisers may have some logistical problems), but as i have said, shoot the round, keep the records and publish the records.
Then everyone is happy :D

[Archangel]

9.5 The functions of the Board include:
...
Amendments to the Rules of the Association
The functions of the Board include amendments to the rules. That doesn't mean that nobody else can do it.

[Fred021]

i agree,
maybe you or other traditional shooters should put your hand up and offer to keep the records for Australia and New zealand, i am sure that if all the information was collated and presented correctly, then they would be published for others to peruse.
yes at tne moment you can go up in divisions if you want for recurve and compound, male or female. and if traditional wish to do this then i cant see a problem(except tournament organisers may have some logistical problems), but as i have said, shoot the round, keep the records and publish the records.
Then everyone is happy :D

I would be quite happy to do that for longbow archers, if the Board of each country would agree.

[Fred021]

The functions of the Board include amendments to the rules. That doesn't mean that nobody else can do it.

But, section 13 of the Administration Rules, as published at http://www.archerynz.co.nz/Portals/0/Documents/admin_rules.pdf , especially 13.3 through 13.6, indicate to me, that it has to come either from a club, or from the Board itself.

[Leo]

I think you should complain to the ANZ Board about there inconsistencies. I'm sure they would appreciate your words interspersed between the commas. :)

[burt666]

But, section 13 of the Administration Rules, as published at http://www.archerynz.co.nz/Portals/0/Documents/admin_rules.pdf , especially 13.3 through 13.6, indicate to me, that it has to come either from a club, or from the Board itself.

Club is "someone else", no?

[Marcus]

"Dear Archery New Zealand

I'm from Western Australia and I ,don't think you do things, correctly. I'm happy to, step in and, run things, just call.

I will, speak slowly.

Bret B"

[The One]

1. I am not suggesting any conspiracy against longbow archers, by Archery NZ. I am suggesting that both Archery NZ and Archery Australia, could give better recognition of achievement by longbow archers, and thus encourage participation by longbow archers.

They are given adequate recognition, as in other bow classes, of achieving records in the designated rounds. 90m is not the designated distance for a longbow to compete in a FITA in NZ. Thus, while they are welcome to do so for ****s and giggles, it does not mean they should have more records.

2. I did not suggest that archers should be able to claim records for achievements for rounds that are lower than their designated rounds. I suggested that records should be kept and maintained, for achievements in rounds that are at a higher level than a particular archer's designated tournament round, so that, for example, if a 14 year old girl, can ousthoot adult women of the same bow type, in a FITA 90m round, that should be recognised.

Just because a 90m round is longer than a 60m round does not make it better. It is a different shoot. We choose to keep records only for the rounds we routinely compete in - hardly a radical concept?

3. Regarding the "If longbow shooters in NZ want to change the shoot they do, they are welcome to rock up to the AGM, make a motion, and change it!", I was not suggesting that rounds be cahnged, only that recognition be given, by way of records, for rounds that are at a higher level than an archer's designated tournament round.

Again, higher is not better. For Open Men's Compound, the only record we have is for the 90m round. No longer, no shorter. As far as I know, we are quite content with this fact.

4. Also, can an archer have a decision of the Board, regarding records, that "is final", overturned, at an AGM?

Yes.

Archery NZ has a "Athletes' Commission Regional Representative", up your way, apparently,

Yes.

but no member of the board, now, who is an "Athletes' Convenor", although I do not know whether that position has a voting role in the Board.

Correct. It is a voting position.

The "Athletes' Commission Regional Representative", from Auckland, may be aware of a recent decision of the Board, involving not allowing records to be kept for a particular bow type and age/gender division, conflicting with the Shooting Rules.

Please elaborate as to which divisions. Note that the Shooting Rules posted on the ANZ website are dated July 2003 and do not take into account any changes made after this date. I presume they will be updated soon.

"P.S. ANZ voted to stop recognising double rounds quite a while ago." - was that a decision of the Board, or, of an AGM? Either way, it is an unfortunate decision.

Depends on your perspective.

5. "I can't claim a record for the Women's FITA line for Men's Compound," - I note (and, I think that it should not be changed), that the ranking lists include an adult male recurve archer, in the ranking list for the FITA 70m round.

Note that this would either be an U16 or veteran male who was shooting in his correctly designated class.

I think that achievement should be recognised. That, to me, is what it is about, in the competitive sport of archery.

Shooting a shoot that noone else in your division has done (as it is not a recognised shoot for your division) and getting a record noone else has is hardly the pinnacle of achievement. (No disrespect to John Deck's shooting ability here).

6. I understood, from the rules, that an archer cannot propose changes at an AGM, such as changing a shoot (which involves changing the Shooting Rules). I understood that a motion to make such a change, had to come from a club, or from the Board itself, and that the Board has the final say.

Incorrect.

[frommy]

:deadhorse::deadhorse:

[maskn]

Actually I'm convinced.
This morning I shot a 10m round in my shop. It was a tournament and I was lucky enough to win. I got a trophy and am currently wearing it around my neck. It's awkward, but I'm proud.
Anyway the score was a record and a huge achievement and yet despite the 48 emails I sent to AA this morning has yet to appear on the AA website OR in the records book.
This is CLEARLY a discrimination towards compound shooters all around the world.

Now I've got to go and write a letter to the council about the lack of white lines in my car park.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Pianochick]

[QUOTE=Fred021;339178
But, in South Australia, which, I think, has a similar population to Western Australia, longbow archers have shot the target distance of 100m, in a round that is way beyond the capability of longbow archers in Western Australia, and, is longer than most compound archers in Australia, have shot, in target archery.
[/QUOTE]

Just wondering, do you actually talk like you type? Because that, could get, annoying, pretty fast.

[coach]

Just wondering, do you actually talk like you type? Because that, could get, annoying, pretty fast.
Looks like you are easily annoyed :confused:

[PeterBennett]

Fred, I dont believe 100m is past the ability of longbow shooters in WA or the rest of Australia, but in fact is past the neccessary distance shot by longbowers.
When I first saw longbow being shot I was shooting recurve at the 90m fita round, with a longbow shooter, his score for 90m was 7, all the rest of his arrows were in the grass. when I started shooting longbow the round was the Fremantle, which meant that I was able to put most of my arrows in the target, which made the round achievable by the average archer.
The Fremantle round is what longbows shoot at State and National championships, and this is why there are no records for 90m.
I have shot a Fita 90m round with a longbow and scored very well, but most of the longbow shooters in my club shoot occasionaly and when they have shot 90m for fun with me get very discouraged very quickly when they put all their arrows in the grass.
As longbows do not shoot 90m or longer in competition, why would there be records for competitions that are not held.

[Fred021]

Fred, I dont believe 100m is past the ability of longbow shooters in WA or the rest of Australia, but in fact is past the neccessary distance shot by longbowers.
When I first saw longbow being shot I was shooting recurve at the 90m fita round, with a longbow shooter, his score for 90m was 7, all the rest of his arrows were in the grass. when I started shooting longbow the round was the Fremantle, which meant that I was able to put most of my arrows in the target, which made the round achievable by the average archer.
The Fremantle round is what longbows shoot at State and National championships, and this is why there are no records for 90m.
I have shot a Fita 90m round with a longbow and scored very well, but most of the longbow shooters in my club shoot occasionaly and when they have shot 90m for fun with me get very discouraged very quickly when they put all their arrows in the grass.
As longbows do not shoot 90m or longer in competition, why would there be records for competitions that are not held.

Regarding the first point - of the longbow archers that now exist in WA, I believe that the top 4 in target archery (as opposed to clout, flight, or field, archery), would not be able to shoot 90m, with a longbow, in target archery, apart from the 100m. Very few longbow archers, of the longbow archers that now exist in WA, have shot 70m, even, in target archery.

It can be done - it is simply a matter of being inclined to try it, and, perserverance, and, preferably, some coaching.

In some competitions, such as the previously mentioned "Graham Jones Metric Philadelhia Tournament", which was a scheduled tournament (not sure whether it was ever on the Archery Australia shooting calendar, but I assume that it was on the Archery South Australia shooting calendar), as previously mentioned, the distances shot, were 100m, 90m, 80m, 70m, 60m, 50m, and 40m. In that, in the 2007 tournament, for longbow, Jeff Nicholl scored 45 for 100m, and 97 for 90m, and, Carol(?) Ashlee scored 26 and 15, for those two distances, respectively.

I think that recognition of such achievement, by way of records, would be good.

I think that it goes to the issue of, "if a person can do something beyond the bare minimum requirement, and, do it well, then doing it well, should be recognised".

On that point, as you will have probably seen, people have differing opinions about that point.

Did you know that one longbow archer, from Australia, has shot in the Antient Scorton Silver Arrow (first to hit a circle, 3" diameter, at 100 yards, wins)?

[Clare Barnes]

Fred021's bedtime reading:

http://www.latrobe.edu.au/learning/assets/downloads/commas.doc

http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/commas.html

And, I agree, with your sentiments, Pianochick! ;)

[PeterBennett]

And who is going to collect, collate and update and store all these extra records, our score recorders have enough to do as volunteers, and are doing a fantastic job now.

[GrahameA]

Morning Clare

And, I agree, with your sentiments, Pianochick! ;)

It's not the commas. It's the sentences that go on for ever.

[Clare Barnes]

It's not the commas. It's the sentences that go on for ever.

In Western Australia, we have now, no longbow archers, capable of shooting in that tournament.

Rubbish Grahame! :p

[whiz]

Fred.

For the love of God,

DO NOT put a comma in front of AND.

For the love of the common man, pry your comma key off your keyboard and throw it on top of a cupboard until you can control yourself or learn to use it properly.

[GrahameA]

Afternoon Clare

Rubbish Grahame! :p

To support my case;

With that, and, given that the distances shot, are not the metric equivalent of the Imperial Philadelphia Round, but, are in fact, longer, with the longest distance being 100m (the longest known target distance shot in Australia), which is longer than is shot in any other recognised target archery tournament in Australia, the round that is shot in the Graham Jones Metric Philadelphia Tournament, is too different to the Imperial Philadelphia Round, to be regarded simply as a metric equivalent, and, deserves recognition in its own right.

Then there is the single sentence paragraph, e.g.

In some competitions, such as the previously mentioned "Graham Jones Metric Philadelhia Tournament", which was a scheduled tournament (not sure whether it was ever on the Archery Australia shooting calendar, but I assume that it was on the Archery South Australia shooting calendar), as previously mentioned, the distances shot, were 100m, 90m, 80m, 70m, 60m, 50m, and 40m. In that, in the 2007 tournament, for longbow, Jeff Nicholl scored 45 for 100m, and 97 for 90m, and, Carol(?) Ashlee scored 26 and 15, for those two distances, respectively.

Clare Barnes is apparently stifling the development of archery in AUS and NZ.
This a direct result of failing to shoot your Compound. :D

[Clare Barnes]

Clare Barnes is apparently stifling the development of archery in AUS and NZ.
This a direct result of failing to shoot your Compound. :D

But I don't own a compound? :-? :p
(Not anymore...)

[tropicalshot]

And who is going to collect, collate and update and store all these extra records, our score recorders have enough to do as volunteers, and are doing a fantastic job now.

he stuck his hand up to do it, so i say let him do it and he'll see just how hard it is and whats involved in keeping and maintaining records.
i think our current AA recorder does a phenominal job and should receive more accolades in what they have to do, and put up with

I would be quite happy to do that for longbow archers, if the Board of each country would agree.

[Eberbachl]

Oh my, this thread, is an, incredible display of, the worst case, of overuse, of the poor old, comma in the, history of the, forum, combine that with the unintelligible ramblings, that go on almost to, the point of the, forum's post limit, and, the massive running, sentences that, just don't make sense, to anyone, except perhaps the, author, oh hang one, where was I,...?

:silly:

[DKW]

Fred.

For the love of God,

DO NOT put a comma in front of AND.

Did you not read Clares bedtime reading suggestion?

[Marcus]

All I can think of when I read these posts is "Captain Kirk"

[Eberbachl]

I'm really bored at the moment so I've actually been reading a couple of Fred021's posts.

Read this out aloud including all punctuation:

So, Archery Australia, is not consistent, in its records, with its shooting rules, as "it does not recognise what it recognises".

...and this:

.......each of the countries, to show recognition of exceptional achivement, and, to encourage archers, in both countries, especially longbow archers, so as to encourage participation, which, in the case of Archery NZ, where affiliation is voluntary, rather than mandatory, to get more longbow archers shooting, and, affiliated, to compete against Archery Australia longbow archers, perhaps, in a Trans-Tasman longbow archer tournament, perhaps, even, either via the Internet, or, as a postal tournament

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Where did we get him? Can we get another one?

Please?

:D

[Marcus]

This begs the question which I need to ask
How can your use of the English language be so bad???????

And with such poor use of the written word you have considered standing for local government? WTF?

I am the only candidate for this ward, in this local government election, who lives in this ward. Ask yourself – do you want a councillor, who lives in the ward at the time of the election, and, has lived in the ward for over a decade, and so has an idea of conditions in the ward, or, do you want councillors to be elected for the ward, who do not live in the ward, and have not lived in the ward for many years.

I hope your first act would have been increased funding to local education.

[Eberbachl]

You're, standing for, local, government?

WTF?

Seriously - WTF?

:o

I am the only candidate for this ward, in this local government election, who lives in this ward

I think he needs to live in a ward...

[johnske]

This begs the question which I need to ask
How can your use of the English language be so bad???????

And with such poor use of the written word you have considered standing for local government? WTF?



I hope your first act would have been increased funding to local education.

Looks like a way, of writing, as it would be read, when you were giving, a political, speech, with pauses to emphasize, what are to be considered, important key words. Or, alternatively, how you would like, your cue-cards, to be, presented


i.e. it would go something like this



I am the only candidate for this ward...

in this local government election...

who lives in this ward...


(wait for applause to die down)


Ask yourself – do you want a councillor...

who lives in the ward at the time of the election...

...and...


(wait for it, wait for it, now lay it down thick)


has lived in the ward for over a decade...

and so has an idea of conditions in the ward...


(wait for cheers and applause to end)


...or...


(insert pregnant pause here)


do you want councillors to be elected for the ward...

who do not live in the ward...

and have not lived in the ward for many years...

[Eberbachl]

If you live in this ward, and are eligible to vote in the 2007 Armadale City Council election, in the Lake Ward, you may have read the many letters to the editors of the local newspapers that I have written, trying to improve conditions for the people who live in Armadale and the people who work in Armadale.

...everyone in the newspaper offices has read them. They're on the noticeboard right next to the Dilbert comics.

:rofl:

[Archangel]

Since we're having this lovely discussion: It raises the question. Begging the question is something else ;-)

[Pianochick]

.......each of the countries, to show recognition of exceptional achivement, and, to encourage archers, in both countries, especially longbow archers, so as to encourage participation, which, in the case of Archery NZ, where affiliation is voluntary, rather than mandatory, to get more longbow archers shooting, and, affiliated, to compete against Archery Australia longbow archers, perhaps, in a Trans-Tasman longbow archer tournament, perhaps, even, either via the Internet, or, as a postal tournament

Ouch...it hurts!

Maybe someone should go through his posts, find an exceptionally bad one, and re-write it so that he has an example of correct grammar.

[whiz]

Maybe someone should go through his posts, find an exceptionally bad one, and re-write it so that he has an example of correct grammar.

Please define "exceptionally bad"

[Eberbachl]

Originally Posted by Fred021
.......each of the countries, to show recognition of exceptional achivement, and, to encourage archers, in both countries, especially longbow archers, so as to encourage participation, which, in the case of Archery NZ, where affiliation is voluntary, rather than mandatory, to get more longbow archers shooting, and, affiliated, to compete against Archery Australia longbow archers, perhaps, in a Trans-Tasman longbow archer tournament, perhaps, even, either via the Internet, or, as a postal tournament

Ouch...it hurts!

Maybe someone should go through his posts, find an exceptionally bad one, and re-write it so that he has an example of correct grammar.

Pianochick:

Please remind me one day to teach you how to use the quote system.

:D

[Pianochick]

Pianochick:

Please remind me one day to teach you how to use the quote system.

:D

I know how to, I was in a hurry so didn't have time to go back and find his post.
I can probably do that now though...I'm bored.

Edit:

All done.

[Pianochick]

Please define "exceptionally bad"

...each of the countries, to show recognition of exceptional achivement, and, to encourage archers, in both countries, especially longbow archers, so as to encourage participation, which, in the case of Archery NZ, where affiliation is voluntary, rather than mandatory, to get more longbow archers shooting, and, affiliated, to compete against Archery Australia longbow archers, perhaps, in a Trans-Tasman longbow archer tournament, perhaps, even, either via the Internet, or, as a postal tournament

Though I think I have why he's using so many commas. Perhaps he was taught that paragraphs must only be one sentence long...many of his seem to be.

[Marcus]

Actually perhaps he types like he is speaking at the time. It reads like he's really puffed.











I'm just saying.