One Tree Hill Cup 2007 - 1st/2nd December

[The One]

That's right, the time of year again for the OTHC to get underway - it's being held on the 1st and 2nd of December. I've attached the entry form. It should be a great event with some fun events thrown in, hopefully will be even bigger and better than last year!

Saturday: 90m and 70m Full FITA
Sunday: FITA 720 (morning), Individual Matchplay (afternoon) followed by the IRON KIWI!!!! :D

Any entries from overseas are more than welcome :)

Let me know if there are any questions.

[gizzy]

Is this a registered tournament or a club shoot?

[The One]

Is this a registered tournament or a club shoot?

ANZ registered major tournament. It was registered before the last calendar update, but didn't make it on there. Have been told that it will be updated soon :)

[burt666]

I can only encourage every World Cup Stages / Commonwealth Games / Etc... hopefull to intend and participate, as the whole will be run typicaly as all those international competitions.

Bonus: you get to hang around with me and The One;)

Our Australian friends are more than welcome to flight over and shoot!:D

[gizzy]

Bonus: you get to hang around with me and The One
Bonushttp://www.archery-forum.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Smile

[gizzy]

No junior rounds?

[burt666]

No junior rounds?

I'm not in the organizing committee, but i'll answer in their behalf... they can feel free to correct me if needed.

No. just too complex to organize several shootings line... the time required would be too long, meaning you'll have to run the junior rounds at the same time as the senior ones (i'm talking the matchplay here). Think you just reduce the "prestige" of both events really, as your attendance will have to share its time between the two events, specially for the medals matches. Plus some of the juniors can shoot really well on the 70m line.

It would be nice to see a similar type of event for the JAMAs, based on 2x50m + matchplays, or even 2x30m for the younger ones, all on big faces.

[The One]

A decision was made to focus on the 70m round as there simply wasn't enough room on the line for extra rounds, and we are expecting quite a large attendance. Juniors are, of course, welcome to shoot the 70m line if they can make the distance. A number of the juniors in our club, even some of the younger ones, are very keen to get involved.

I would quite like to see another club start up a similar event which focuses solely on the juniors, something like a JAMA matchplay championships.

[Quetzalcoatl]

And we ran a junior line last time and had only four kids attend - and with their different divisions different lines this meant they took up 4 out of our 14 targets all to themselves with safety gaps (our targets aren't portable unfortunately). Yeah, its a nice idea, but for just 4 kids it really wasn't worth all the extra organising and attention it took away from the main divisions.

Matchplay incorporated into the North and South Island JAMA Champs would be interesting though, if the organisers felt like it - single FITA on Sat, ranking round and matchplay on Sun :)

[The One]

Here's our newest addition to the family - the Iron Kiwi, quarter inch thick :o

Many thanks to Steve, one of our members, who created the masterpiece :)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/andy2001nz/DSC01236.jpg

[burt666]

Before you get told off for it, don't forget to mention this is an original Quetzalcoatl design too!;)

[puddin]

looks like fun
wish i could make it up to distroy some arrows in a fun way.
would be good to get it at the nationals.

[burt666]

could be heaps fun !! but i'm not sure we can justify to pay for added fuel comsumption t get it down to Welly, cos it's one heavy bi@tch....

[The One]

Before you get told off for it, don't forget to mention this is an original Quetzalcoatl design too!;)

Yes, that too :)

looks like fun
wish i could make it up to distroy some arrows in a fun way.

Well why don't you? Would be good to have you up for it!

[Archangel]

I've discovered some cracking at the front of one of my older X10's, so it'll be a perfect candidate for the Kiwi.
Just have to make sure that either I win or it dies properly, none of this survival rubbish :-P

[puddin]

yes if an arrow hit the kiwi and lives that would be rather sad. it needs to break.

just a question, what sort of distance will it be shot from??

[Quetzalcoatl]

Start at 30m, move back 5m each round or something similar, I imagine.

Are we going to have it painted Andrew? I think it would look better.

[puddin]

Start at 30m, move back 5m each round or something similar, I imagine.

Are we going to have it painted Andrew? I think it would look better.
yeah it would be better painted. would make it easier for persons liek me with rather bad eyesight to aim at.

[The One]

Start at 30m, move back 5m each round or something similar, I imagine.

Are we going to have it painted Andrew? I think it would look better.

The plan is not to paint it, so that it gets a rugged rusty look (might look more like a kiwi ;))

Also, silvery stuff shouldn't be that hard to aim at, Craig! :)

We'd probably start at 30m and move back 10m at a time, don't want it to drag on for too long :P

[puddin]

The plan is not to paint it, so that it gets a rugged rusty look (might look more like a kiwi ;))

Also, silvery stuff shouldn't be that hard to aim at, Craig! :)

We'd probably start at 30m and move back 10m at a time, don't want it to drag on for too long :P
hey im very blind Andrew. i can hardly aim at a realtarget without glasses and with it just shows me how bad i shoot

[Quetzalcoatl]

The plan is not to paint it, so that it gets a rugged rusty look (might look more like a kiwi ;))

Also, silvery stuff shouldn't be that hard to aim at, Craig! :)

Until it gets so ruggedly rusty it is no longer remotely silver ...

[Archangel]

hey im very blind Andrew. i can hardly aim at a realtarget without glasses and with it just shows me how bad i shoot
You're too young to have bad eyesight aren't you? :confused:

[The One]

hey im very blind Andrew. i can hardly aim at a realtarget without glasses and with it just shows me how bad i shoot

You sound like our perfect candidate for shooting the iron kiwi, then :D:D:D

Tell you what, we'll have a vote at the club opening day, and see whether the general consensus is to paint it or not!

[The One]

I've discovered some cracking at the front of one of my older X10's, so it'll be a perfect candidate for the Kiwi.
Just have to make sure that either I win or it dies properly, none of this survival rubbish :-P

Yeah, I thought that set of yours had lasted for too long, so took a chisel to your arrow while you weren't looking! Wouldn't want you to miss out on the fun!!!

[Archangel]

Yeah, I thought that set of yours had lasted for too long, so took a chisel to your arrow while you weren't looking! Wouldn't want you to miss out on the fun!!!
You are aware that I'm considerably more fond of my X10's than I am of you, right?

[The One]

You are aware that I'm considerably more fond of my X10's than I am of you, right?

Well, considering the number of times you had shot them and not me, I thought I was on a winning thing...

[Archangel]

Well, considering the number of times you had shot them and not me, I thought I was on a winning thing...
That was before the chiselling occurred ;-)

[burt666]

Hey you two, get a room!!:)

[2Dogs]

Two little Lambs going for it....cute :D

[Archangel]

Two little Lambs going for it....cute :D
Better a little lamb than a fat-arsed wombat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatso_the_Fat-Arsed_Wombat) ;-)

[2Dogs]

:rofl: he's my hero!

[The One]

It has come to my attention that some are disappointed about the lack of junior rounds at this event, and some of the reasons given for not running a junior round. We have not provided a junior round due to two reasons:

1) Not enough target buttresses
2) Not enough judges

At other tournaments we have no problems providing for juniors, but can not do so in this instance. Our club has a strong history of supporting juniors, and runs the junior team tournament in years when the TT does not occur (apart from the confusion of what was happening for this year). There are a number of junior-only tournaments. We do not believe it unfair to have one tournament which caters for the senior line.

We are already running 7 days of major tournaments this summer, and we simply cannot accomodate another tournament. As I have noted, it would be great to see another club run a matchplay tournament designed specifically for juniors.

I apologise for the inconvenience to those who are unable to make 70m. To all juniors who are able to shoot 70m, you are more than welcome to attend, and I look forward to shooting with you on the day.

[burt666]

Until it gets so ruggedly rusty it is no longer remotely silver ...


And that's happening right now.... shall we paint it? what colour?:D I'm sure shooting at a blue, white and red item will comfort some of you....:p

[gizzy]

Any juniors looking for a shoot come to the Gisborne merit star 10th-11th of Novenber all junior distances are catered for, we can cater for around 50 archers, all senior distances are also catered for we have 5 judges coming, and yes it would be good to see a club put on a match play for the juniors.

[TrevorK]

I've discovered some cracking at the front of one of my older X10's, so it'll be a perfect candidate for the Kiwi.
Just have to make sure that either I win or it dies properly, none of this survival rubbish :-P

Does anyone want to donate a navigator 610 29" long for this!

[puddin]

Does anyone want to donate a navigator 610 29" long for this!
you could shoot one of my old triples if you really want to. its about that long. but the spine is stiffer. sight marks dont matter its all about a nice smashed arrow anyway.

[Archangel]

Does anyone want to donate a navigator 610 29" long for this!
Unfortunately I sold my last set of 620's some time back - don't think they were 29" though.

its all about a nice smashed arrow anyway.
Andrew!! Are you taking note of this? There's no escape this time!

[burt666]

Andrew!! Are you taking note of this? There's no escape this time!

As secretary, i'm taking good note of it :P

No excuses now Craig!! ;) You have to come for it!

[The One]

Andrew!! Are you taking note of this? There's no escape this time!

As the MunterStick 1.0 will no longer be the same spine as my arrows, I can assure you that my sightmarks will be unlikely to make the 30m shot ;)

[Quetzalcoatl]

As the MunterStick 1.0 will no longer be the same spine as my arrows, I can assure you that my sightmarks will be unlikely to make the 30m shot ;)


Well, you'd better not miss the thing completely again! ;-)

[puddin]

Well, you'd better not miss the thing completely again! ;-)
we will just make him reshoot till he hits it if he misses completely.

oh whats a good place to stay around that area??

[Quetzalcoatl]

I had to type up a whole list of motels around there for work the other week ... naturally I can't remember any of them, sorry ;) There's quite a few though, if you look on the Jasons or AA Travel website or any sites like those and search for places in Epsom or Greenlane I'm sure you'll find something suitable.

[The One]

Hi all, just a reminder to get your entry in ASAP if you are planning on shooting this event :) Looks like it should be a good tournament!

[Quetzalcoatl]

Four spaces left on the line. If anyone else wants to enter please PM or email me asap.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Oops sorry, that's four spaces left for the Saturday.
There's a few more still available on Sunday, for anyone who doesn't want to shoot the FITA.

[The One]

Hope everyone's gearing up for the One Tree Hill Cup! Looks like we should get all the rain out of the way on Friday, so Saturday is looking good, and Sunday's weather is looking great!! :)

We will have our waterproof gazeboes up to provide some sun protection, but it would be a good idea to bring some sunscreen etc.

[The One]

Also, remember that there will be a free BBQ running from lunch onwards on Sunday afternoon all the way through the medal matches!

:drool:

[The One]

Archery Imports have increased their generous offer of a prize for the Iron Kiwi fun shoot.

There will now be a $100 gift voucher up for grabs in BOTH the compound and recurve divisions!

:highfive:

[The One]

AUCKLAND ARCHERY CLUB FITA
1st December 2007


Men's Recurve 90m 70m 50m 30m Total
Peter Ebden AAC 287 313 318 339 1257
Warren Kertell AAC 264 297 290 337 1188
Steve Crosbie AAC 252 301 295 337 1185
Burt Bourgeois AAC 229 296 311 333 1169
Andrew Russell AAC 256 275 287 335 1153
James Nightingale SHO 268 284 274 315 1141
Trevor Kennerson TAU 214 272 263 313 1062
Brent van Trigt MTG 223 260 242 315 1040
Michael Dixon SHO 189 222 184 284 879

Men's Compound
Justin Timperley AAC 316 338 338 353 1345
Jeff Green AAC 308 329 329 347 1313
Richard Hart MTG 292 307 285 339 1223

Veteran Men's Recurve 50 - 64 70m 60m 50m 30m
Keith Martin AAC 234 243 195 285 957

Veteran Men's Compound 50 - 64
Dennis Lowe AAC 314 329 304 339 1286

Women's Recurve
Chloe Maclaren AAC 216 253 222 295 986
Elizabeth Andrew MTG 196 213 189 263 861

Women's Compound
Barbara Scott GRE 312 331 319 338 1300

Junior Men U18 Recurve 90m 70m 50m 30m
Manasvi Narula AAC 231 280 300 329 1140
Jiayi Gong AAC 245 282 287 316 1130

Junior Men U18 Compound
Kyle Levenberg AAC 301 322 329 339 1291

Cadet Boys' U16 Recurve 70m 60m 50m 30m
Callum Marin AAC 273 267 227 321 1088
Blair Dixon SHO 216 246 223 271 956

Cadet Boys' U16 Compound
Yiftach Swery AAC 321 333 333 348 1335
Daniel Carver-Shadbolt AAC 331 329 323 346 1329

[The One]

Well done to everyone today, a number of PBs thrown into the mix!

Also congrats to Daniel for winning the Camera Shoot! Took out the X at 70m after a number of other close shaves.

[gizzy]

Well done for getting the results out so quickly, well done everybody there are some good scores there, I think some of the juniors are giving the seniors a bit of a hurry up.

[The One]

Recurve:

1st Peter Ebden
2nd Warren Kertell
3rd Bertrand Bourgeois

Compound

1st Yiftach Swery
2nd Justin Timperley
3rd Daniel Carver-Shadbolt

I will post full results for the Ranking round once I get them.

[pmoney29]

Compound

1st Yiftach Swery
2nd Justin Timperley
3rd Daniel Carver-Shadbolt
4th 2Dogs

You forgot one

[burt666]

You forgot one

FYI, he's got Admin rights... he can half your rep just like that (he did to me) ban you for weeks, send his army of ninja-drop bears on you, etc...

They might be smalls, but you got balls man....

[The One]

Winners of the Iron Kiwi event were:

Recurve: Burt
Compound: Richard

Well done! Seemed to be a great fun event that everyone enjoyed (especially the spectators).

And now a prayer for the arrows which are no longer with us... :rofl:
P.S. The Munterstick 1.0 is now officially dead and buried. Finally. :silly:

[burt666]

Winners of the Iron Kiwi event were:

Recurve: Burt
Compound: Richard

Well done! Seemed to be a great fun event that everyone enjoyed (especially the spectators).

And now a prayer for the arrows which are no longer with us... :rofl:
P.S. The Munterstick 1.0 is now officially dead and buried. Finally. :silly:


Yeah! I thank Colin and Shaun from Archery Imports for the $100 voucher, it will contribute to replace the 3 arrows i blew this weekend!:silly:

[The One]

One Tree Hill Cup Ranking Round
2nd December 2007
FITA 720

Recurve Total Place
Peter Ebden AAC 628 1
Warren Kertell AAC 600 2
Steve Crosbie AAC 590 3
Burt Bourgeois AAC 579
Jiayi Gong AAC 575
Andrew Russell AAC 574
Manasvi Narula AAC 545
Brent van Trigt MTG 529
Callum Martin AAC 502
Trevor Kennerson TAU 492
Chloe MacLaren AAC 450
Blair Dixon SHO 447
Michael Dixon SHO 446
Keith Martin AAC 403
Elizabeth Andrew MTG 382

Compound
Yiftach Swery AAC 667 1
Justin Timperley AAC 647 2
Daniel Carver-Shadbolt AAC 639 3
Kyle Levenberg AAC 608
Richard Hart MTG 606

[The One]

The Organising Committee would welcome any comments or suggestions for improving the event - we want to make the tournament improve from year to year, and feedback from the competitors is valued.

[Archangel]

There were a few comments yesterday about the purpose of the FITA in the event - if the matchplay determines the overall result and the FITA doesn't contribute to the ranking, then what's it there for?
I think the format is good as it is - two matchplays would be a bit weird, this is a nice middle ground - but some archers seemed to find that a bit confusing. Maybe the matchplay ranking could be on the total of FITA + 70m round?

[Archangel]

Overall was an excellent tournament, very well run, so don't have much to say other than nitpicks in my previous post ;-)

[jtimps]

The FITA is ther for two reasons, Firstly we believe that if it was just a one day tournament people would be less likely to travel for it, and secondly, with the distinct lack of tournaments prior to the nationals it gives everyone an extra chance to gain a qualifying score. Other than these two reasons there is no point to the FITA (except to shoot a whole heap of PB's :) ) In future years as the One Tree Hill Cup gets bigger I hope to remove the FITA entirely and run a ranking round and teams matchplay on the Saturday and take the entire Sunday for the individual matchplay or some similar combination. Doing this would allow us to cater for a lot more archers, but as yet we have not seen the demand in NZ to expand it to this extent.

[jtimps]

Just to clarify a bit more, it believe we run into issues with registering the tournament if we make the ranking a combination of the FITA and FITA720.

[The One]

There were a few comments yesterday about the purpose of the FITA in the event - if the matchplay determines the overall result and the FITA doesn't contribute to the ranking, then what's it there for?
I think the format is good as it is - two matchplays would be a bit weird, this is a nice middle ground - but some archers seemed to find that a bit confusing. Maybe the matchplay ranking could be on the total of FITA + 70m round?

Thanks for that, Archangel. A bit of history and insight into our reasoning:

In 2005 we trialled having a FITA 720 and an individual matchplay each day. Worked ok and gave people some good matchplay paractice, but realised it was impossible to actually pick a winner, and having both days identical, it seemed a bit odd to pick out one and say "this is the important one".

We considered having just a FITA 720 and matchplay, but people from other cities and overseas are less likely to travel for just one day of shooting. One of our main goals is to try and attract archers from outside of Auckland and overseas, so a two day event seems to be the go.

The FITA serves three purposes: 1) It gives people a full day of shooting (when it comes to matchplay, some archers are always going to be knocked out in the first round, and this still gives them a good weekend worth of shooting). 2) It allows archers to gain qualifying scores for NZ team selection in the lead up to the Nationals, where a numebr of teams get selected. I think we had at least 4 or 5 qualifying scores for the Trans-Tasman at the event. NZ team selection still seems to revolve around FITAs unfortunately, even when some of the events do not contain FITAs (such as the Olympics among others). 3) It is a similar format as the National Champs, so gives archers good practice a month before the Nationals.

We discussed having an entry fee for two days, no single day entries, but these days people have more and more work and family commitments, so we preferred to make it more accessible to the archers. Also, if a decent archer shoots just the second day, they would be ranked quite low in the matchplay, and this could make it practically more difficult for one of the archers who ranked quite highly in the first round. Thus, where the possibility of entering two days was offered, we thought it best to rank off just the FITA 720.

When we were deciding upon the events to run at the event, we discussed what we would be looking towards in the future. Hopefully once the event gets older, more reputable and draws more archers, we might possibly have recurvers shooting a FITA 720 in the am and compounders in the pm (or vice versa), with both team and individual matchplay on the second day.

Of course if people have suggestions as to alternative programmes for the tournament, either for 2008 or further into the future, we'd be very interested to discuss them!

Andrew

[Sir Slick]

This idea most likely WOULDN'T work.....but whate the hell, throw it out there anyway.

Try having a FITA 720 on day 1, Teams and Individual Matchplay Day 2.

Consider inviting clubs from around NZ up, so can be competed for by club..myself and a couple of others from Wellingtron would have attended if not for work commitments.

Like I say wouldn't work, even if you invited clubs to send teams chances are archers would choose not to attend but one more option to debate.

[Jay.G]

Mm not enough shooting for me... Unless it was a really famous thing. If it was a double FITA 720 however then I'd be more interested.

[puddin]

Mm not enough shooting for me... Unless it was a really famous thing. If it was a double FITA 720 however then I'd be more interested.
agree here. easy to get a double 720 done in one day. and matchplay the next.

[burt666]

I'll agree by the fact that so far in in NZ the idea of a FITA 720 + matches isn't exciting enough to make people travel.:( More over, you can found people saying "why should I enter/travel to get nocked out first round" from the less confident archers.

I like the idea of inviting team Club and stuff. Should be organised that way for the Nats too i think, but that another issue.

Problem is, you have to take into account the demographic repartition of archers in the country, and finding 3 recurvers / compounders of the same Club willing to travel to such a tournament are quite slim so far i'd say. it is very important now to build up on what we have and make archers used to that kind of events.

It don't see quite the necessity of having a double FITA 720.... you could have one 720 the first day with a team event in the afternoon, then the second day you seed Round Robin groups form first day 720, then proceed to semis and medals matches. I think DVA will use a similar system for the Aussie Open in september '08.

Thus you guarantee a decent number of arrows shot, only 24 between a medalists hopeful and someone who didn't pass the RR.

People like matchplay, the face to face aspect is exciting. If the top shot of the day has a brain fart a shoot a 3, it's more than possible for the less confident contender to win the match.

Finally to the Organising Committee: well done guys, very well organised!:thumb: the only think i could say is i seem to remember the crowd to be more supportive/cheerfull/attentive last year, but this maybe be due to the dull grey weather we had yesterday. The Iron Kiwi was epic, and now haunts the thoughts of many arrows in the NZ quivers....

[Archangel]

I'd be bored stiff for a double double 70 - 144 arrows at 70m is a bit much.
I quite like the current format, just heard a few people saying that they weren't sure of the purpose of the FITA.

[TrevorK]

Well I thought it was great, I enjoyed the different rounds and as mentioned earlier, good practice for the Nationals. my club in Tauranga, we have two JAMA archers and 1 Mens Recurve who travel to tournaments out of a club of 32 members. So a team from here would very differcult, until more of our members get over the fear of competing.
As for the Iron Kiwi, great fun
Cheers guys

[Quetzalcoatl]

We tried having teams matchplay a couple of years back, no one really enjoyed it. Weather didn't help that year, but NZers need to get a whole lot more excited about teams matchplay before its worth the time and effort it takes to run it. A few more archers (especially in the compound division this year) would help too.

I like teams matchplay lots. Hopefully we can reintroduce it in the future.

Thanks for that, Archangel. A bit of history and insight into our reasoning:

A bit?? That's wasn't 'a bit' ...

[TrevorK]

Didn't we have a mixed up team matchplay at this years Nationals?

[The One]

A bit?? That's wasn't 'a bit' ...

It was a "bit" of history and a lot of insight ;)

[The One]

Here are some photos of the event:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/andy2001nz/PC020017.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/andy2001nz/PC020028.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/andy2001nz/PC020034.jpg

[Sir Slick]

Didn't we have a mixed up team matchplay at this years Nationals?


We did....it was crap. Mix 'n' Match is rubbish.....Nationals should have a serious base and the joke it was treated like ruined it for mine. Should be clubs or region based.

Well done on tournament team......only positive feedback, good sign of success.

I shall definately try and make a trip next year. I dont think we have enough matchplay here and personally I'm quite prepared to travel and get an arse whipping first round.....great thing is you never know!!!

[The One]

We did....it was crap. Mix 'n' Match is rubbish.....Nationals should have a serious base and the joke it was treated like ruined it for mine. Should be clubs or region based.

I completely agree.

Well done on tournament team......only positive feedback, good sign of success.

I shall definately try and make a trip next year. I dont think we have enough matchplay here and personally I'm quite prepared to travel and get an arse whipping first round.....great thing is you never know!!!

Thanks mate, I look forward to hosting you next year :D

[burt666]

We did....it was crap. Mix 'n' Match is rubbish.....Nationals should have a serious base and the joke it was treated like ruined it for mine. Should be clubs or region based.

I'll second The One on that one. Maybe we could put something together to be presented at the AGM?!? they dont have to make a motion out of it, but issue some sort of guidelines to future Nats organizers on how team matchplay should be held could be a gd start. And as i said once, just create a dam shield for it, and everything else might just follow...

Also, i discussed yesterday with our Athlete rep what could be done to get the matchplay results count into the ANZ ranking system. So far only the matchplay at Nats is taken into account. We both felt something should be done, but even our engineers brain couldn't really figure out what, or we just got too lazy in the evening....

[Sir Slick]

Also, i discussed yesterday with our Athlete rep what could be done to get the matchplay results count into the ANZ ranking system. So far only the matchplay at Nats is taken into account. We both felt something should be done, but even our engineers brain couldn't really figure out what, or we just got too lazy in the evening....

50 points for a win, 40 for 2nd, 30 for third, 20 for 4th, 10 for 5th, 8 for 6th, 6 for 7th, 4 for 8th?????

Simple formula, emphasis on winning/medalling, need at least eight competitors at an event to earn ranking points. Must be a major tournament.

No points for just "competing":thumb:

[burt666]

50 points for a win, 40 for 2nd, 30 for third, 20 for 4th, 10 for 5th, 8 for 6th, 6 for 7th, 4 for 8th?????

Simple formula, emphasis on winning/medalling, need at least eight competitors at an event to earn ranking points. Must be a major tournament.

No points for just "competing":thumb:

something like this yeah?:thumb:

maybe we should create another thread instead of high jacking that one...

[TrevorK]

[QUOTE=The One]Here are some photos of the event:

Can I have copies of the photos taken? PM me