Arrows getting blown off launchers

[James Park]

At the Holdsworth Trophy it was pretty windy.
We did have quite a number of archers (including me) have arrows start to get blown off the launcher.
In my case it was with Axis FMJs, size 400, at 420 grains, and a normal Trophy Taker launcher. Those arrows do not blow off that launcher too easily, so the gusts were pretty strong.
If an arrow does get blown off and you shoot it it can get a little dangerous - for example, the arrow could break in the bow.
Maybe Ed could comment on how the judges view this? For example, when would you decide it was too dangerous and call a halt?
Can you call an equipment failure in these circumstances?

[burt666]

At the Holdsworth Trophy it was pretty windy.
We did have quite a number of archers (including me) have arrows start to get blown off the launcher.
In my case it was with Axis FMJs, size 400, at 420 grains, and a normal Trophy Taker launcher. Those arrows do not blow off that launcher too easily, so the gusts were pretty strong.
If an arrow does get blown off and you shoot it it can get a little dangerous - for example, the arrow could break in the bow.
Maybe Ed could comment on how the judges view this? For example, when would you decide it was too dangerous and call a halt?
Can you call an equipment failure in these circumstances?

As far as i remember, the 30m round of the FITA for the NZ Nationals in 2006 was purely canceled for that very same reason.

[-Chris-]

Taken from:
http://www.archery.org.au/lib/pdf/safetypolicy.pdf

WIND

As archery is generally an outdoor sport, wind is ever present and generally an unavoidable part of archery.

Strong gusty winds create hazards in archery, such as blowing arrows from arrow rests, blowing over telescopes, umbrellas, tents, target butts and causing objects to become air born.

Air borne objects create a major hazard with people being struck. As a general rule when wind gusts reach the maximum recommended threshold (refer to your local Work Cover Authority) shooting should stop and archers, officials and spectators should leave the Field of Play.

[Ed]

At the Holdsworth Trophy it was pretty windy.
We did have quite a number of archers (including me) have arrows start to get blown off the launcher.
In my case it was with Axis FMJs, size 400, at 420 grains, and a normal Trophy Taker launcher. Those arrows do not blow off that launcher too easily, so the gusts were pretty strong.
If an arrow does get blown off and you shoot it it can get a little dangerous - for example, the arrow could break in the bow.
Maybe Ed could comment on how the judges view this? For example, when would you decide it was too dangerous and call a halt?
Can you call an equipment failure in these circumstances?

Calling an equipment failure is doubtful - has any item of equipment actually 'failed?' Not really. It is more a question of the weather. One of the judges' duties under Article 7.9 is 7.9.1.9 "they will, in liaison with the DOS, interrupt the shooting if necessary, because of weather conditions......but ensure, if at all possible, that each day's program is completed on that day."

Now, let's face it, there was no way the weather was going to improve yesterday so an 'interruption', with the possibility of continuing later was not on. On the other hand no archer drew the judges' attention to any danger nor did any judge perceive a danger. Cancellation is a difficult issue at any time and very much depends on the situation pertaining at the time.
I have actually postponed a couple of events (one field and one target.)
The field one was reduced to a 12 target event later in the day as the weather improved. The target one was 'interrupted' after the 3rd distance with the 4th distance being shot on the following day

[Peter King]

At the NZ Nationals, January 2006, the judges cancelled a FITA due to wind. It caused arrows to blow off rests and archers had to let down at times with their bows pointing in various directions. I believe this constituted a danger and was the reason for the decision and I can't recall anyone disagreeing with the call.
We shot for nearly 8 hours, with interruptions and retreats from the field, and never did start the 30m distance.

[Stryker]

The weather was horrible, but it was a good day. Only have one complaint though, they need to do something about the staggered shooting line. One gust of wind hit me so bad that I was suddenly aiming at the Masters/Veterans shooters!!!!!!! Did not enjoy seeing a friend through my scope at full draw.http://www.archery-forum.com/showthread.php?t=18999

Is that not an appropriate time to cancel the event. 1 slip on a release aid and who knows what may have been!

[2Dogs]

Actually that's one thing Bad about a D-Loop. During the draw it doesn't put any downward pressure on the arrow and winds blow your arrow off the rest very easy.

Would have to get my rules book out to have a look at you question.

I'm thinking the DOS or Head Judge could call a halt to a shoot for anything that they deemed to be dangerous.

As for equipment failure, hmmm maybe not but if it's that windy the archer can't keep the arrow on the rest you could surely halt the shoot for Dangerous conditions.


PS: Ooops took to long to hit the Submit button :)

[Hannah]

http://www.archery-forum.com/showthread.php?t=18999

Is that not an appropriate time to cancel the event. 1 slip on a release aid and who knows what may have been!
Trouble is, if no-one brought it to the judge's attention, then the shoot would not get cancelled.

[Stryker]

Trouble is, if no-one brought it to the judge's attention, then the shoot would not get cancelled.
Very True. I guess the main problem with yesterday was that you could not hear the wind coming at all... 1 second it was still then it hit you like a freight train.

[Hannah]

Perhaps the greatest lesson that we can take away from this is archer responsibility. If we think that it truly is too dangerous to shoot, then calling a judge over is in the best interests of not only the archers on the day, but also also to the sport in general.

Out of interest...the quote from FITA that Chris provided mentioned looking at our local Work Cover Authority. Does anyone know what the maximum recommended threshold for Australia is?

[-Chris-]

I have emailed workcover.. i will keep you informed when/if i hear back from them :)

[Kite]

If its that windy, you'll find me curled up in front of the TV :D

Having said that it is surely a good enough reason for the DOS to cancel.

[2Dogs]

I agree, good time to stay at home and surf porn ;)

[Hannah]

That would work if your TV was your computer monitor, I s'pose...

[frommy]

refer to your local Work Cover Authority

I consider this bit of advice from AA to be quite useless actually, but I would be interested to see what response you get from Vic WorkCover, Chris.

Doing some quick research on the NSW WorkCover site gives no assistance, however if I were to have delved into areas of construction in use of cranes, wall construction, etc I am sure that some general observation may have been forthcoming regarding working in such tasks in windy conditions.

Even if there were any sort of standard, which I very much doubt, as there is with noise exposure, be aware that each State/Territory may have different standards. For example I believe the threshold for safe noise exposure in Vic is 80 dBa, while in NSW it is 85 dBa.

However, none of the various work safety authorities, including WorkSafe Australia, would be able to give guidance on any level of wind, by way of a reading of wind strength, for archery. If one did exist, then would we be expected to be able to measure wind speed at tournaments? That issue would be a no-brainer IMHO.

I think that, as already mentioned by Ed I think, it should quite rightly come down to the assessment of conditions by the Judges/DOS, and the archers themselves would need to express any concerns that they have in this regard to those officials.

Brian

[Hannah]

However, none of the various work safety authorities, including WorkSafe Australia, would be able to give guidance on any level of wind, by way of a reading of wind strength, for archery. If one did exist, then would we be expected to be able to measure wind speed at tournaments? That issue would be a no-brainer IMHO.
Those were my thoughts also...however, did wonder if there was something in relation to the use of say surveying or something like that. My guess is, it was only put in there for guidance purposes ie the Bureau of Meteorology would tell us expected wind knots.

[Peter King]

Surely this is a judge/DOS call. They will call it for lightning, and even wind/hail at MAC (but only after the DOS stand started to blow away), so observing the increasing danger of uncontrolled release aid/D loop letdowns pointing in all directions should be sufficient for the judge to call a halt, as it was in NZ. BTW apologies to burt666 for doubling up on that point.
Asking archers to call for a "safety" halt is unlikely to work. No competitive archer will want to be the first to call off a shoot, particularly if the archer next to him/her is having a relatively better day on the scoreboard.

[The One]

That is true. Judges should take the responsibility to make the call, but if archers are unhappy with the safety of the event, they need to speak up and let their feelings known. Safety should always come first.

[Craig R]

What are you all complaining about! Its sounds like you had perfectly normal weather at Moorabbin;)

Windy hole that it is!

[Hannah]

What are you all complaining about! Its sounds like you had perfectly normal weather at Moorabbin;)

Windy hole that it is!
I was very tempted to post a similar thing :rofl:

[-Chris-]

Well i emailed workcover asking them how windy is to windy for a building site.
I assumed that if i asked in relation to archery i wouldnt get a response.
there reply was:

There are no specific regulations which address this issue. If you believe that the wind is posing a risk to health and safety ie materials or people are likely to be blown over or objects are falling from height, then your employer is required to take appropriate action to address the hazard at the worksite.

So there you have it. AA say refer to workcover, and workcover say we dont have a regulation for it. So we just stay at home?? :munch:

[James Park]

So we just stay at home?? :munch:
Yep. Glass of fine wine and watch the archery on the TV.

[wareagle]

Or you could put a good drop away on. :D

[Flehrad]

The last uni games back in 2005 at homebush had the problem before we started on the 2nd day, where entire targets were being flipped over, even though they were pegged down. Obviously the DOS took one look and said "I'm going home"....

But at uni, because we have a lot of beginners, if the wind is strong enough to push their Jazz off the hoyt hunter rests (no clickers), then we call it a day since it is just too dangerous.

[frommy]

-Chris-

That is the sort of reply I would have thought you would get, but are you a worker?

This is an extract from the ASNSW Tournament Postponement/Delay Policy (28/11/02)

4[QUOTE]) Wind - An event may be cancelled, delayed or postponed if

[Hannah]

-Chris-

That is the sort of reply I would have thought you would get, but are you a worker?

This is an extract from the ASNSW Tournament Postponement/Delay Policy (28/11/02)

4

Brian
That sounds fairly sensible, and no doubt that is the type of thing that the DOS/judges should be looking for to ascertain safety. What I don't understand is how the weather can get so bad without anyone realising that it is a safety hazard.

Of course, it is always going to be a tough balance between how bad is "too" bad! I don't actually think there is an answer for it...except maybe natural selection ;)