practice arrows

[tropicalshot]

Fita maintains that no practice is allowed during competition.
my question is how long and what determins a competion.
most clubs shoot two rounds in the morning and two in the after noon(144 Arrow)
so naturaly no one shoots practice after lunch as the 144 arrow round is deemed to be the competion, what if the round is split over two days, does that mean no practice in the morning?? (we all get a practice before we start)the only thing that is changed is the time limit between rounds. what is the time limit between rounds where you are allowed to practice?? should we be allowed to practice on a practice target during lunch as technicaly the competition has stopped due to lunch??
i cant find any hard fast rulings on this just fitas statment of no practice during competition, so what constitutes a competion????

[Stryker]

Interesting...

What about 2 day events like the State/National Field, State/National Target, State/National Indoor?

[Ed]

Interesting...

What about 2 day events like the State/National Field, State/National Target, State/National Indoor?

I think tropicalshot is really referring to a complete day's shooting and where he talks about 'round' before and after lunch I believe he means the 'distances' or 'ranges.' The FITA Judge Committee has made it clear that there can be no practice during the course of a FITA round shot on the one day. BUT if, for example, you shoot a split FITA with 90 and 70 on Day 1 everyone may have practice at 50m on Day 2. Rule 13.9.1.1 refers to practice "on all days".
However, if you complete a full round on Day 1 then you can only practise on the first distance prior to the start of the round (and not, for example, at 50m during/after lunch.)
As for field there is never any practice allowed on the field course but the OC needs to set up a practice area with faces covering all the (marked) distances. Interestingly enough it states that such targets "will be provided to permit practice before, during and after competitive shooting."
For Indoor the OC will always set the amount of practice time.
Remember that the FITA Rulebook essentially covers World Championships and the Olympics so there is scope for any OC to vary the practice as indicated in a full reading of 3.19.1.1 and 3.19.1.2

N.B. I suspect the "during" is to enable an archer who has had an equipment failure to test out repairs before resuming shooting in the field. Remember he has 30 minutes to effect repairs.

[tropicalshot]

N.B. I suspect the "during" is to enable an archer who has had an equipment failure to test out repairs before resuming shooting in the field. Remember he has 30 minutes to effect repairs.

was in the case studies and i was looking for an answer
thank you.

but how would you treat an archer who has left the range during a lunch break and gone to another field(or another close club) to practice shorter distances during a days competition,?? to return in time to comence the next distance??

[Stryker]

I guess you would have to prove that is what had happened. Not sure you could prove that or prevent that!

[Ed]

I guess you would have to prove that is what had happened. Not sure you could prove that or prevent that!

Agree -it a question of "prove it!" May not get any advantage anyway since the conditions could well be different from where the tournament is being shot.

[bigfella]

was in the case studies and i was looking for an answer
thank you.

but how would you treat an archer who has left the range during a lunch break and gone to another field(or another close club) to practice shorter distances during a days competition,?? to return in time to comence the next distance??

But has he actually broken the rules by going somewhere else.. another field, another place, under his house????? I would suspect not.

Does the interpretation mean that he cannot draw his bow with an arrow in it or fire his bow anywhere during the rest period of the event??? Isn't that a somewhat ludicrous situation.

[johnske]

But has he actually broken the rules by going somewhere else.. another field, another place, under his house????? I would suspect not.

Does the interpretation mean that he cannot draw his bow with an arrow in it or fire his bow anywhere during the rest period of the event??? Isn't that a somewhat ludicrous situation.

And if this does actually 'break the rules', what penalty is to be applied if they were found to have actually shot practice arrows somewhere other than the actual competition field?

Rule 7.4.2.3 says "An arrow shot on the competition field after the DOS has officially closed the practice session (which is after the pulling of
the practice arrows); or during the breaks between distances or
rounds, will cause the athlete to lose the highest scoring arrow of
the next scoring end."

To me, that rule actually names and specifically refers to "the competition field" only - there is no mention of any other field or place there.

[The One]

To me, that rule actually names and specifically refers to "the competition field" only - there is no mention of any other field or place there.

That's how I would read it.

[Ed]

That's how I would read it.

Many FITA "interpretations" and by-laws are not listed in the Rule Book.
They can often be found in the FITA Judge Guidebook and on the website.
Practice/warm up/etc is allowed off the FOP but not at the next distance to be shot after the break. That is a FITA Judge Committee interpretation and most archers will not have access to that information.

[Clare Barnes]

Many FITA "interpretations" and by-laws are not listed in the Rule Book.
They can often be found in the FITA Judge Guidebook and on the website.
Practice/warm up/etc is allowed off the FOP but not at the next distance to be shot after the break. That is a FITA Judge Committee interpretation and most archers will not have access to that information.

So what exactly is the point of 'interpretations of rules' that the competitors do not know exist? :-? I would think in that sort of scenario that ignorance was a valid excuse.

[Ed]

So what exactly is the point of 'interpretations of rules' that the competitors do not know exist? :-? I would think in that sort of scenario that ignorance was a valid excuse.

Who knows? Ask the Judge Committee. Rules are always open to interpretation and it is not possible to put them into a new rulebook or Judges Manual until the next ones are due for printing. MA's send requests for interpretation to the Committee who may have to deal with 50 of these a year. Then the judges need to be informed of the interpretations which are placed on the website. It is very cumbersome to manage.
You also get judges differing on their interpretations when asked by an archer!
Have you never witnessed this?
Come up with a better way to handle it - there's a challenge for you all!

[johnske]

So what exactly is the point of 'interpretations of rules' that the competitors do not know exist? I would think in that sort of scenario that ignorance was a valid excuse.

That's just a self-serving rule to make judges indispensible for all serious (i.e. 'major') competitions. Also, 'precedent' or 'convention' can well form part of an interpretation of a rule, for instance, I have a '76 FITA rule book where the conduct of WCs is laid out as (in summary): two FITA rounds to be shot over four days with 6 'sighter' arrows allowed at the start of each day (note that any 'practice' on the actual tournament field was only allowed on the day prior to the competition). So there is precedent there for some 'sighter' (AKA practice) arrows at the start of each days competition.

... Rules are always open to interpretation and it is not possible to put them into a new rulebook or Judges Manual until the next ones are due for printing. MA's send requests for interpretation to the Committee who may have to deal with 50 of these a year. Then the judges need to be informed of the interpretations which are placed on the website. It is very cumbersome to manage...

Just had a look, there's little in the AA Judges Manual (5th edition) that's not in the rules, noteably, it's said that "tournament organizers are able to allow practice on the tournament field prior to the start of the competition" (which brings us right back to the original question {basically} - what is regarded as the start of competition? - going just by the precedent above, 'competition' starts at the 1st scoring end for each day of the tournament)


I also can't see anything on the FITA site under the heading 'practice' in the by-laws, but there is an item in the FITA interpretations (Book 1, Article 3.19)
"The C&R Committee is unanimous that no practice arrows are allowed during the competition."

Which brings me back to my previous question - if an archer is found to have broken the rules by shooting practice arrows "on the competition field" (say) during the lunch break, they then lose the highest scoring arrow of the next scoring end (n.b. only one arrows score) - fine, that's in the rules.


So - what is the penalty if they shoot practice arrows at some place other than "on the competition field"? :archer: If there is no actual penalty given for this infringemant, the 'rule' (interpretation actually) is toothless, worthless, and (IMO) could be safely ignored by all and sundry. :silly:

[Ed]

Can't really understand why you have bothered to raise this question. It's such a minor issue that no archer has ever mentioned this to me in the last 15 years.
You had a run-in with a judge or something?

[johnske]

Can't really understand why you have bothered to raise this question. It's such a minor issue that no archer has ever mentioned this to me in the last 15 years...
It's just been been brought up here...
...You had a run-in with a judge or something?
No, a simple question, :D I just want to know how - as a judge - I'm supposed to respond if someone should make a formal complaint to me about an archer practicing at grounds close to the competition grounds during a break, also, the forum's description is "Ask about rules and also present case studies for opinions."

[Brocky]

Are they not all just practice arrows :confused:

[Dr Phil]

I think it is a valid question. However, anyone who is likely to be taking home silverware is probably going to have their house in order enough for it not to matter. Plus, Adam Richards is no longer in OZ:D :rofl: The number of time I nearly shot the bloke while he checked his 70 mark at a FITA.