Update on progress

[Clare Barnes]

It appears as though there has been some good shooting by Elite Compound Program members this weekend :D including:

Fiona Hyde 1390 for a FITA 70m (Ladies FITA) (new AA record)
Zoran Singerov 1382 for a FITA 90m (Men's FITA)
Pat Coghlan 701 for a FITA 720 (new AA record)
Sherry Gale 115 for 12 arrow matchplay (equal AA record)
Craig Tyson 889 for a FITA 900

Let us know if any classy tournament scores have been missed!

[frommy]

There have certainly been some great scores recorded recently by all of the above, and congratulations to all for them. Fantastic stuff.

:thumb:

[2Dogs]

I want them all drug tested! :D

[frommy]

Clare,

What about the Paringa QRE scores from Clint? 1398 and 1395. Worthy of addition to the list I would have thought.

:munch:

[2Dogs]

Nup..... they didn't count :D

[frommy]

Yeah, I know that, but they are still fantastic scores, recognised or not.

[2Dogs]

Oh they are only 1390's..... they suck! :rofl:

Clint's problem is that he has to find people to shoot a QRE in TAS that he isn't related to.

That could be very hard for a Tasmanian :D

[Clare Barnes]

Clare,

What about the Paringa QRE scores from Clint? 1398 and 1395. Worthy of addition to the list I would have thought.

They were great scores of course, but I really was just commenting on the number of tournament achievements from this weekend. :)

[James Park]

There were a number of impressive performances in the Nationals Target from Men's Compound:
1st Pat Coghlan 1401+1394
2nd Rob Timms 1394+1390
3rd Brendan Wallace 1380+1387
4th Bryce Lee 1379+1373

Pat was one less than the 70M World record with 355
Rob was one less than the 90M World Record with 347
Brendan was one less than the 90M Junior World record with 341

At 90M, Rob stayed within the gold both days - that is pretty challenging to achieve (even for one day). (And on the third practice end he shot a 60, all well clear of the line).
Pat finished 70M with two 60s.

[James Park]

It is interesting to watch the scores. They have certainly jumped up a notch since we started the program.

[whiz]

At 90M, Rob stayed within the gold both days - that is pretty challenging to achieve (even for one day). (And on the third practice end he shot a 60, all well clear of the line).
Pat finished 70M with two 60s.

So why is it that nobody wants to know what type of fletching and arrow setup is used by these guys?

Here we have straight evidence that their equipment is producing exceptional consistency and their form is excellent.

Why is nobody asking for Pat, Rob, Brendan and Bryces' opinions on how to set something up and what is important?

This just may be a rhetorical question...

Might be time for a few interviews here..

[tropicalshot]

So why is it that nobody wants to know what type of fletching and arrow setup is used by these guys?

Here we have straight evidence that their equipment is producing exceptional consistency and their form is excellent.

Why is nobody asking for Pat, Rob, Brendan and Bryces' opinions on how to set something up and what is important?

This just may be a rhetorical question...

Might be time for a few interviews here..

maybe they set thier equipment up to suit thier style of shooting, so what might work for them may not necesarily suit you or i. then they just could be bloody good at archery due to consistant good form.

[Eberbachl]

So why is it that nobody wants to know what type of fletching and arrow setup is used by these guys?

Here we have straight evidence that their equipment is producing exceptional consistency and their form is excellent.

Why is nobody asking for Pat, Rob, Brendan and Bryces' opinions on how to set something up and what is important?

These guys have obviously got their gear set up well and working well for them which is important, but I think it's more worthwhile to look at their technique rather than hoping to score the way they do by duplicating their equipment.

If you do the latter, many will simply rush out and buy the same gear, then wonder why they don't blow 1400 away.

:thumb:

This just may be a rhetorical question...

...you did only say it may be :p

[whiz]

These guys have obviously got their gear set up well and working well for them which is important, but I think it's more worthwhile to look at their technique rather than hoping to score the way they do by duplicating their equipment.
...you did only say it may be :p

Ah yes. I haven't got to asking about philosophies of technique yet, but that's carefully planned...

There is potential here to look at what appears to be working.

Lets look at "spinwings group better" mythology.

If this was true in all accounts, then all the guys would have to do to break the next barrier would be to put spinwings on their arrows.

I know Pat, Brendan and Rob, do not use spinwings.
Hence, I can discard the the belief that I won't be able to shoot well if I don't use them.
Blatantly, their arrow set up is patently capable of perfect scores.

So, what do these guys do, when building arrows to make them so consistent?
Is there a trend here of attention to detail?

I would think so.
So maybe we could establish at least the level of care and attention that one would need to spend on a carefully matched set of arrows, before you get into diminishing returns...

[Archangel]

Why is nobody asking for Pat, Rob, Brendan and Bryces' opinions on how to set something up and what is important?
Don't be ridiculous - all true archers know that they know best ;-)

[Sandy Hancock]

Blatantly, their arrow set up is patently capable of perfect scores.

So, what do these guys do, when building arrows to make them so consistent?
Is there a trend here of attention to detail?

I would think so.
I would think not. At least not just that one detail.

Pat and I happen to have the same draw length and we use identical arrows. I have an old set of his. As far as I can tell, his are no better put together than mine. Pat scores about 1 point *per arrow* better than me for a FITA 90m, and I score no better with his set than mine.

I also shoot a very similar bow, and it is set up and tuned pretty well.

You'll have to look elsewhere for the secret of shooting 1400's ;)

[Freeman]

There are many things that go into making a 1400 set-up.

Strength..... being able to shoot the last arrow as good as the first.

Consistent shot making... executing the same shot every shot

Draw Length... finding the ultimate draw to obtain steadiness and body alignment

Tuning with the bow.... getting the most out of it. Find the best clearence/tune with the rest.

Arrow tuning.... finding the best spine to give you the best groups.

Arrow building..... arrows do the scoring, so they all need to be spined the same and weigh the same, other wise how will they score the same.

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

[Eberbachl]

I would think so.
So maybe we could establish at least the level of care and attention that one would need to spend on a carefully matched set of arrows, before you get into diminishing returns...

I will not shoot arrows unless they're matched to within better than 0.1gn.

I can't imagine why anybody would actually. It's only laziness ;)

[tropicalshot]

I will not shoot arrows unless they're matched to within better than 0.1gn.

I can't imagine why anybody would actually. It's only laziness ;)

i am hoping you weigh them after nocks /tips and fletchings.
do you add a dab of glue to any that are out by 0.1g???
how do you evenly distribute the glue so that the arrow remains evenly weighted around its circumference??

[rachel]

There are many things that go into making a 1400 set-up.

Strength..... being able to shoot the last arrow as good as the first.

Consistent shot making... executing the same shot every shot

Draw Length... finding the ultimate draw to obtain steadiness and body alignment

Tuning with the bow.... getting the most out of it. Find the best clearence/tune with the rest.

Arrow tuning.... finding the best spine to give you the best groups.

Arrow building..... arrows do the scoring, so they all need to be spined the same and weigh the same, other wise how will they score the same.

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

tropicalshot
Maybe you missed what Clint said

[Eberbachl]

i am hoping you weigh them after nocks /tips and fletchings.
do you add a dab of glue to any that are out by 0.1g???
how do you evenly distribute the glue so that the arrow remains evenly weighted around its circumference??

Yes, of course I weigh them with nocks, tips and fletches. :silly:

It's very easy to get a set of arrows within 0.1gn. In my opinion, everyone should do it.

I don't add glue as a rule. I weight match the set as close as possible by using the heaviest arrow with the lightest point, and I carefully file the back of the points to achieve as close a match as possible, and of course re-check them all after final assembly of points. I re-do any that aren't within tolerance.

I can get extremely accurate results this way.

I'm not kidding. I even do this with my 18m indoor arrows. I'm like that.

;)

[Sandy Hancock]

Weight matching is much easier with skinny target arrows. With X-10's or Triples I can fairly easily get a full dozen within +/- 0.1 grain.

I have just rebuilt an expanded set of Axis FMJ's: 21 shafts and 24 points. The best I can get is 14 made-up arrows within +/- 0.5 grain. With an average weight of 492.5 grain, and my limited skill, I think that's close enough ;)

[Rhythm Willie]

I have found that Pat etc have on a number of occasions given advice on their set ups and equipment, both personally and on this forum.

Pat's Protours have slight angled straight fletched FF vanes starting around 29 - 30 mm from the nock/string( fletching a bit further forward than some setups].

All top archers (see John Dudley's article on tuning Protours) will experiment with point weight and sometimes length to get the best groups over all distances. There are no great "secrets" other than obviously getting weight close which is quite obtainable with $40 grain scales.

Another example is the Pat has publicly stated on this forum he gets better groups by using a blade rest with C2 cams and dropaways with Cam1/2's. Stephen Clifton has thanked Pat recently on this forum in this regard.

i.e. most of the top shooters are not trying to hold back any info and are helping others with advice whenever they can with the motivation of seeing improvement in archery especially in Australia and New Zealand.

[Archangel]

i.e. most of the top shooters are not trying to hold back any info and are helping others with advice whenever they can with the motivation of seeing improvement in archery especially in Australia and New Zealand.
Yep, agree, but I think what Luke was asking was why archers aren't asking those guys more rather than why they're not talking...
Seriously, I think it may be because a lot of archers like to experiment themselves rather than have the answer handed to them - even if they then get it slightly "wrong" ;-)

[tropicalshot]

Seriously, I think it may be because a lot of archers like to experiment themselves rather than have the answer handed to them - even if they then get it slightly "wrong" ;-)

nail on the head,

that is why archery will never stagnate and keep evolving, people do experiment to get the best out of gear to suit themselves,
its good to have a basic tuning guide that works, same weight arrows, all fletched the same, etc etc,
but with out trying something new, how else do you know what you are being told is best suited for you,

[James Park]

WAC09 qualifying scores for the women (>1350) from the Nationals Target:
Kellie
Erika
Fiona

[James Park]

WAC09 qualifying scores for the men (>1360) from the Nationals Target:
Pat(2)
Rob (2)
Brendan (2)
Bryce (2)
Paul
Sten
Chris
Peter