Worst call I have yet seen

[gt]

In the World Cup final this past weekend in Turkey, the line judge for the match- a very experienced and I believe well-respected judge- red-carded a shooter who cut the arrow loose with a full second still on the clock and no audible horn.

This cost the shooter- who was in the lead- 9 points and totally changed the outcome of the match.

The judge stood by the call, in spite of hundreds of witnesses who saw otherwise. Video of the event is also perfectly unambiguous about the truth of the matter. I was watching both the shooter and clock at the same time and there is absolutely no doubt about the fact that she shot in time.

After the match, a jury of appeal reviewed the matter and unanimously restored the points lost to the shooter, which did not change the outcome. With all pressure removed from the trailing archer, and the emotional blow to the wrongly-red-carded leading archer, the outcome was no doubt vastly affected.

Organizers and FITA awarded a gold coin medallion to the wronged shooter the same as that received by the champion of the event.

It is true that people can make mistakes. But, should there be a sanction against an official who commits such a grievous error? Or additional safeguards on a red-card, such as two judges must agree on the call?

Opinions?

[Matt Gray]

I saw that aswell. Felt really sorry for the poor girl. Korea with another Gold....

[UKC Archery]

I dont think sanction is necessary, as this may in turn influence judges from issuing decisions which they truly believe in, in some cases.

I believe that decisions with the gravity of the one outlined above, and similar, especially at such an event, should be varified by more than one person, and should have the use of playback for extra clarity.

As you said, it is totally possible for anyone to make an honest mistake, and the use of playback can then be used to ammend that error. I have no doubt a Judge would only make a call for what they themselves absolutely believed, so if they can use playback to double check, they can be sure.

Also, if it is a very fine call, then more than one decision, possibly 3 perhaps, would take away the judgement from just one individual, and may reduce the possibility of an error being made.

[2Dogs]

I am a Judge Candidate (not quite a full Judge) and I do think that there should be a sanction against an official who commits such a grievous error.

Most Judges are paid when they go to events & especially at that level of tournament, they would be there as a paid professional.

As such they would be expected to perform at the highest level.

Most other sports where you have paid officials, have their performances reviewed after matches & if found to have committed errors, are usually sanctioned for a period of time.

It would certainly make sure they keep uptodate with the current rules.

I also agree that there should be a 2 judge system on the cards. Most of the Judges at these events are old farts and their sense of timing may not be that good :D

[Marcus]

This is a greatly discussed topic in US Pro sports, with Ice Hockey, Football and Basketball now having instant replay on things such as this.
For example in a recent Pistons-Celtics match I watched a player hit a shot on the buzzer. The rule is that if the ball is in his hands when the clock hits 0 it's not counted. After reviewing a replay the shot was discounted and the ref's decision overturned on the spot because the ball was still touching his fingertips.
When you have money on the line, be it prize money and the cost of training and travel, then you MUST get these calls correct. FITA simply MUST use instant replay for it's matchplay finals to determine if an archer shot before or after the clock turns zero.

[C Tyson]

While in Turkey we had an interesting line call on my target during the qualifying round. A Turkish archer called a judge for an eight/nine call, the judge after some deliberation ruled the arrow a "7" and walked off, we were blown away and had to call her back to reconsider.
It was miles out and we guessed that maybe she was making him suffer for wasting her time......
Just makes you wonder what training and experience some judges have???
Craig

[dbjac]

wow, that's just straight up retarded. I often joke around and say that sorta thing, but damn... was she serious? :o

[Peter King]

There are worrying signs in this one and in other sports where the judges and referees/umpires seek to be bigger than the game, and more importantly than the players.
If they are looking to find fault it is easier to find it, as opposed to the more balanced view of weighing up the actions with at least a neutral view.
What happened to the "advantage to the archer" where doubt exists? Fortunately, that is more the case in Australia than it used to be.

[Sean McKenty]

In the World Cup final this past weekend in Turkey, the line judge for the match- a very experienced and I believe well-respected judge- red-carded a shooter who cut the arrow loose with a full second still on the clock and no audible horn.

This cost the shooter- who was in the lead- 9 points and totally changed the outcome of the match.

The judge stood by the call, in spite of hundreds of witnesses who saw otherwise. Video of the event is also perfectly unambiguous about the truth of the matter. I was watching both the shooter and clock at the same time and there is absolutely no doubt about the fact that she shot in time.

After the match, a jury of appeal reviewed the matter and unanimously restored the points lost to the shooter, which did not change the outcome. With all pressure removed from the trailing archer, and the emotional blow to the wrongly-red-carded leading archer, the outcome was no doubt vastly affected.

Organizers and FITA awarded a gold coin medallion to the wronged shooter the same as that received by the champion of the event.

It is true that people can make mistakes. But, should there be a sanction against an official who commits such a grievous error? Or additional safeguards on a red-card, such as two judges must agree on the call?

Opinions?


Hey George, I will say again what I said many years ago when match play (Grand Fita) was put in place. In large tournaments and such the coach in the box should have the ability to challenge a call as you described right then and have it resolved before any shooting continues,( similar to Football) this will do two things first it will help stem any tide change in the shooters and it will also put the judge in a very precarious spotlight having a call like this on record. I feel if the judge is overruled he/she should be replaced for the duration of the tournament.


Sean

[Ed]

Most Judges are paid when they go to events & especially at that level of tournament, they would be there as a paid professional.

Most other sports where you have paid officials, have their performances reviewed after matches & if found to have committed errors, are usually sanctioned for a period of time.

Sorry, deux chiens, the judges are NOT paid. We pay our own airfares - the only exception is the Olympics (even had to pay my own airfares for the World Championships). We get accommodation and meals paid and that is it. Cost me about $2500 all up.

Performances are reviewed and in a case such as this I have no doubt that the judge would be 'counselled' and perhaps not get a guernsey for a while.

[2Dogs]

Well you don't know the right people then :D

[Ed]

Any idea who the judge was, Matt?

[archerydaduk]

the match is on youtube now, just watched it.......oooooopppps, really duff call!!!!!!!

[ec]

the match is on youtube now, just watched it.......oooooopppps, really duff call!!!!!!!

link to exact one - it's in the middle. some aussie shirts then erika in the intro too. :)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=H4slQCX38R4

[Eberbachl]

Wow - great video, but terrible line call.

:silly:

[Ed]

Just found out who it was - not an Aussie, but not far away!

[Clare Barnes]

Just found out who it was - not an Aussie, but not far away!

So it has to be one of the many FITA International judges from PNG huh? :rofl:

[Ed]

How did you know!

[Ashman]

This is similar to a lot of debates going on in many different sports. Cricket has the third umpire but only for some decisions. Tennis uses Hawkeye (sometimes) and line judges can be overruled by the Chair. I think if technology is available that does not completely infringe on the flow or spirit of a game/sport then it should be used.
Where instant replays are available they should be used. If not, then a significant call like this should be confirmed by another judge.

[whiz]

You're not suggesting that judges could be emotionally swayed in decision making, are you?

[STRINGWALKER]

that so called forward pass by the blues in the origin match last night!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tropicalshot]

that so called forward pass by the blues in the origin match last night!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:violin:


:cheer:QUEENSLANDER:cheer:QUEENSLANDER:cheer:

[johnske]

that so called forward pass by the blues in the origin match last night!!!!!!!!!!!!!Always look on the bright side - NSW did take out second place!!! :thumb: :D

[Brocky]

Or they let them win.

[tropicalshot]

Or they let them win.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


this is origin not the nationals
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: