Timed Field Shoot

[Zoe]

A suggestion was made at the club today that a timed field round should be held as a bit of a novel fun shoot. The basic concept was that each archer would shoot a pre-selected number of targets and their score would be based on a composite of accrued points and the overall length of time taken to shoot the round.

I've always liked the idea of this, and so I wanted to put a few questions to our members (and others):

1. Are there people at the club who would be genuinely interested in participating?
2. Do people have suggestions re weighting of the 'shot score' component and the timing component?
3. Suggestions re number of targets and number of arrows per target, handicap system for the more mature shooters :wink: etc.
4. Have people shot a round of this nature before, if so, how was it structured?
5. Are there any safety issues that would prevent us from shooting such a
round?
6. If it were to go ahead, when would be a good time to hold it?

I think it could be fun. Comments appreciated.

[James Park]

I vote for 12 targets, one arrow per target, "score"=points scored divided by number of minutes taken to complete the round, handicap for the over fifties (Leigh and me). Sounds like a great deal of fun. I will be in it.

[Robert Halley-Frame]

You can count on my support and I am sure I could rally a few more troops in the club - idea sound good to me

12 targets x 1 arrow sounds like a realistic sort of round. Timing from the moment they leave the clubrooms( that way we have a centralised timing point)

Best time to run would be after the World Field Trial and between the Silver Cup as the field will be set up 100%.

We could introduce a marked round and an unmarked round- that would be interesting.

:lol:

[James Park]

I have thought a bit more about it:
We would need an "age handicap". Working on the basis that Bryce can probably run extremely fast and that Leigh and I will have to walk, carrying our crutches, those of about 20-21 years old should be off scratch, while those over 50 years old need a considerable handicap advantage. It could be that you add your age to your score before you divide by the time you took?

[mike]

How long do people think a round might take, and what scores do people think would be shot. This is important info in terms of working out a system.

[James Park]

My guess is that someone of not too many years and who is reasonably fit (like Bryce or Michael), would take about 1 minute to shoot the shot, 1 minute to get to the target, 1minute to score, 1 minute to get to the next target. That is, about 45 minutes for 12 targets. I guess that an average score of 4.5 would not be far from the truth. That is: about 54 for 12 targets. Leigh and I would probably take an hour and a half and score 58!!
One thing we will need to consider is the way archers should carry their arrow, so that they do not injure themselves if they fall over.
We also need to think about how the scoring should be done.

[Zoe]

Hmmm...some interesting responses.

Mr. Park (who is hardly a :o decrepit old man with a walking frame :o ) seems to be flying the grey army handicap banner quite forcefully. While I do agree that there should be some leniency given on those grounds perhaps we should be careful.

I think we have to start with the assumption that Bryce will win :roll: - any way you weight it, it will come down to a combination of speed and accuracy - therefore Bryce is probably red hot favourite. Then we have to ask ourselves:
Do we want a winner that is reflective of excelling at this discipline? (granted, we haven't established what this "discipline" actually is)...or...do we want a system that gives a whole range of people an even chance?
If it's the even chance...then....
What sort of system will it take to ensure that Bryce comes back to the field...then...
Do we reward accurate shooting more....or fast shooting....then...
Do we handicap for age alone...or...only/also/to varying extents....type of bow shot...male or female...prediposition to athletic ability...DNA structure...you get my drift. In a nutshell, perhaps age shouldn't be too much of a focal point (plus I need all the points I can get :) ).

Jim, in your last post you gave a rough breakdown of timing. I understand that these were rough 'gestimates', but have to say that they appear to be grossly overestimated 8) . I recall shooting 12 three arrow unmarked targets a number of months ago (admittedly it was very hurried) for trial selection purposes in roughly 30 minutes (I believe Michael completed 12 three arrow targets quite casually in 40 minutes last weekend). Personally, I think that one of the points of the excercise is to shoot your round uncomfortably quickly in order to experience shooting for accuracy with an elevated heart rate (lessons of which may be transferred into tournament situations).

In terms of scoring I think we should go normal field scoring, ie. 1-5 (with X's), 1 arrow per target. Due to the practical limitations, each archer scores their own arrows (I think we can safely go with an honours system in this club).

As for arrow safety (here's me thinking my back facing quiver was obsolete...it does have its advantages it would appear :) ), perhaps we could specify one arrow only to be taken around the course (which would effectively mean carrying it around in your hand between targets) - could make things even more interesting.

Anyway, I think a lot of these things will only work themselves out after we give it a go..... :P :P :P









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[James Park]

It seems to me that we need to establish a "passing etiquette". That is, what happens if Michael catches up with Leigh?
I suspect we will need a rule something along the lines that if the archer being caught (the "catchee") is still shooting, then the archer doing the catching (the "catcher") has the right to shoot before they can both go to the target.
We then need to think about which is the most exciting to watch: having the slowest archers or the fastest archers go first. In other sports you normally have it such that the likely winner goes last - that way it gets more and more exciting. We then need the current potential winner to stand at the finsh line holding his bow for all to see (or perhaps his runners), making sure that the tv cameras can see the sponsors name, until someone gets a better score, at which time they then stand there waving their bow in the air. This means that we will need a very fast way of working out the archer's score, so that virtually as soon as they have finished we know if they need to replace the current leader in the bow waving activity. (Sort of like what happens in skiing competitions, if you get the drift).

[James Park]

Robert,
Have to say I am looking forward to one of these competitions!!

[James Park]

Bearing in mind the need to not have our archers getting injured: for example by running with arrows, I have given some thought to what we might do.
We either need to come up with a way in which archers can run safely with an arrow, or we need to avoid them having to run with arrows in their hands.
If we are to have them not carry arrows, we could get them to leave an arrow at each shooting position in advance (say, for six targets), then when it is their turn to compete they run to the target, pick up their arrow, shoot it, run to the target and score, leave the arrow in the target, and run to the next target, etc. That means they could get back to the club house with a score, so we would be able to very quickly know who is winning (and have them stand on the winners podium like the skiiers until someone gets a better score, etc), and collect the arrows from the targets after everyone has competed.

[mike]

As long as you trust me (or Bryce for that matter) not to hide you arrows before you get to them!! :lol:

That would make the speed thing interesting for you Jim, it would turn it in to orienteering archery -- you'd have to find your arrows before you could shoot them.

Just joking, I would never engage in that sort of unsportsman like behavior!!!

:wink:

[REIDY]

It sounds like fun.

I agree with Zoe that the handicap issue needs to take other factors into account, but how do you handicap for someone like me? Middle age (a youngish middle age though), extremely unfit and generally couldn't hit the side of farm shed from 6 feet.

I'll have a go anyway.

[Robert Halley-Frame]

Might I suggest that we use this format on the weekend for the World Field Trial... It might put a different tilt on the results! :D

[Zoe]

archers1st: that would have been a great idea, I was shooting with Rod :P

Reidy: in one of my previous posts I think I mentioned DNA handicapping. Every time I see your kids they're tearing round the range at a million miles an hour. I reckon they could go round the course and shoot a grand total of 3 points and still win comfortably :D Perhaps you have a point though. In terms of age maybe we could bracket the handicaps. I would suggest standard age bracketing: 5-14, 15-24, 25-34, 35-44, 45-54, living dead +.
There would of course be a gender handicap as fallopian tupes are notoriously heavy and significantly hamper the running process :lol:

I'm thinking about doing a sort of pacing shoot next weekend, to scope out what sort of times we would be looking at to shoot 12 targets. From that point we can establish a realistic method of calculating finishing scores. Anyone interested in joining me?

[Rusty Gunn]

Hey Zoe

I think we should do a weight for age handicap...........That way us overweight and old archers would get a head start against the young and toned archers.

Time to tuck into those greasy junk food ( training purpose only)
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[James Park]

Zoe,
I will be in the trial event (will give you a benchmark for the older set of archers). I will try to ensure that Leigh gets a big enougfh handicap!
When did you plan to run it?
Jim

[Zoe]

Looking at the weather forecast, I think Sunday arvo would be the best. Around 2:00pm. Might be a bit slippery but we're only going for an indicative time.....break a leg :D

[Robert Halley-Frame]

Well the Timed Field event was trialed at Sherbrooke today. The event consisting of 12 arrows over 12 targets was tested by James Park, Bryce Lee and Zoe Leviston.

The inaugaral winner was James Park Score 56 divided by time (10. min) Total Score 5.6
Bryce shot a 51 divided by time ( 10. min) Total Score 5.1
Zoe shot 41 by time (14.min) Total score 2.9.

The Presidents Shield was also run today with Charlie Gormley taking out the event , followed by Graham Rhodes and Justin Hawkins.

Well Done everyone.. :D :-?

[James Park]

The timed field event was great fun, and I would recommend that more archers try it. We got around the 12 targets much faster than I could have imagined (and I was totally stuffed after it). Bryce was ready to go for the next 12 targets. Zoe was looking after her handicap. I wanted a rest.
With the whole thing happening in about 10 to 15 minutes, we suspect that 24 targets would be worth trying as well. Perhaps two events: 12 targets and 24 targets? One arrow per target is enough.

[Zoe]

An interesting hitout with some unexpected results. If one thing can be taken away from today it certainly must be that the notion of having a handicap for age has been made well and truly redundant. Note Bryce and Jim recording the same time for twelve targets. And for those of you assuming Bryce didn't really try...I'm sure people remember a cartoon called Pepe La Pue (forgive spelling). Whilst Mr. Park would have barely blown out a candle on his return, young Bryce was rather distressed as he coughed and spluttered his way back to the clubrooms. (Not that I'm comparing Jim to a skunk by the way).

As for myself, I did my best. Although it wasn't the best score, it did give me a medium to show off my considerable talent for orienteering, for I displayed an uncanny knowledge of the Sherbrooke field, deftly manoeuvering from target to target with faultless precision. Alas, this skill did not save me from my considerable difficulty in removing my arrows from the target...with no chivallrous hand to help.

Looking forward to a larger contingent next time....