To many divisions not enough shooters for gongs

[BBS]

IFAA nationals last week I noted 6 senior mens and 7 senior womens divisions had only one archer in each of them.
Only 23 competitors out of 93 did not place and get a medal. This I think makes an absolute joke of a national event.
(as posted in target&indoor section)

ABA should look at having a minimum per division before handing out medals. Like 3 competitors in a division/grade before a first only and 5 in before handing out first second and third

What do you think Bruce

[Bruce]

Scott, I think that we really need to look at this seriously , especially at branch level .
It is a bit harder at a national title that has to cater for all divisions , however I think that the graded divisions should be amalgamated if numbers aren't sufficient .
At the 3D shoot at Whyndham last weekend , We amalgamated all divisions as there were only 28 shooters
We gave out
3 medals in a Sited division,
3 medals in a Barebow/bowhunter division
3 medals in a single string division
and all the Kids that were there got a medal .

Bit hard on the Kids to amalgamate them , I think that we need to encourage the Kids especially ..
Interesting to note that some of the medal winners gave there medals back after the event .

I am thinking that rather than give awards , it might be just as good to recognise the achievments .

I know for myself , I don't go to shoots to get a piece of would or a lump of alloy , I go to enjoy myself , catch up with friends and shoot arrows .
Unfortunately , some members of the sport go to get a medal no matter what . I know of a lady from out of Victoria that kept changing divisions so as she could win nationals in IFAA and world titles , I think that the only division she didn't try was one legged , freestyle unlimeted both eyes closed :bday:

She would see what division was poorly attended and shoot in that division , bit sad really

[Lyne de Heaume]

I think it is essential to award medals/trophies to the Junior and Cubs. Children love to win stuff like this and are very proud of themselves when they do.

Don't let cost-saving get in the way of the recognition that children deserve and can look back on and have something to show their friends. What's the point of winning a State or National title if you've got nothing to show for it.

Both my boys are as proud as punch of their medals and trophies and both put in a lot of practice to win them.

It might be a better idea to look at why people are NOT going to the shoots rather than penalise those who do.

[Marcus]

Personally when I was a junior I found it highly insulting that I would shoot 40 hours a week in the toughest division shootings scores near the adults against 10 other kids and have some chump shoot like crap and get a gold medal because they were the only one in that division. They have nothing to be proud of winning on their own :x (general, not aimed at your kids Lyne, they could be awesome for all I know, but you can see my point)

Kids need to learn from day one that only the best should get medals. You give a kid a medal for turning up and they will not bother working hard for it. Teach them the correct values from day one, it may take them 10 years to win a medal, but they will love it more when they do.

[robbo]

(general, not aimed at your kids Lyne, they could be awesome for all I know, but you can see my point)


They are! :o

[Brad]

Get a life Macus!!!

The kids need to be encouraged as Lyne has said. What does it matter if they get an award or not.

In my view there are just too many divisions in the senior categories. I reckon we could get rid of the limited divisions for the sighted shooters. There are only a couple of them anyway (and i'm sure they do it to get a medal/ribbon). The unsighted shooters should just be A or B grade (maybe c grade when the numbers are up).

What do you think Bruce. How do we go about changing it??

Brad

[Marcus]

So encouraging them is patronising them. Teach them young that they don't have to work for anything, great idea. Kids are not stupid, they know an empty award when they see it.

[Bruce]

It all comes back to the TD , if you read your rule book, it states that if numbers are insufficient , divisions may be amalgamated or something to those words , thats why at |WRA when the numbers were low we gave out the awards we did.
If there is only one limited archer you should amalgamate them into the fsu divisions , except for state and national titles .

[Randall Wellings]

(and i'm sure they do it to get a medal/ribbon).

How sure Brad??

I can attest to the fact that personally there is nothing more frustrating than not having enough competition in your chosen division.

Granted, here in OZ, sighted limited divisions are small in numbers, but overseas they are quite a large number that contest International tournements.

I can understand that some maybe considered 'trophy hunters', but not too many that I come across are in that catagory.

I chose Freestyle Limited in 96 after a sound beginning in Barebow and as stated elswhere , I still have not reached my set goals.

I couldn't give a rats for a trophy at a local shoot, but State and National events are all part of the building process which ultimately I hope, will provide me with a competitive edge when I next compete on the International circuit.

Don't be too quick to pass judgement, look at issues from all angles otherwise you too may end up thinking like other small minded people that frequent this forum.

Cheers

[Brad]

Roodog,

Maybe 'most' was a bit harsh, but there are certainly some. I just think that there are too many sections.

By the way why do you chose to shoot Freestyle without a release?? I would have thought that if you went to the trouble of getting adjustable sights or more pins and/or level that you would want to get a release too. Sorry i'm not trying to be a smartarse, just interested to know.

Brad

[Marcus]

While I'm sure RooDog's last line was aimed at me, I actually agree that removing the limited division from IFAA would be a bad thing, especially for those wishing to compete at an international level.
I remember when Freestyle Limited was huge, guys like Eric Hall and Butch Johnson were shooting it at Pro level in the US etc.
Best best would be merging it it with other bow types that shoot sights with fingers.
A kinda

Sights Release
Sights Fingers
Barebow
Longbow

easy.

[Randall Wellings]

I don't think you are a smart arse...yet :D

No really, I will try to answer your question.

In 94/95, we were all swept up in the 'new' game of IFAA. I was a ABA shooter and nothing else. IFAA...barebow, what else?

In 96, I had the opportunity to try the scope, but at that time, I didn't think I could do the scope and release all at the one time..(remember, I said I was a barebow shooter)

Anyway, I had planned to go to America to contest the Worlds in July of that year. Irrespective of the division, I was going. As it turned out I did very well at the Nationals that year, surprised me and many others.

I put in an enormous effort to ready myself for the Worlds and walked off the first day in first place, having set a new world record.
Second day, another world record, third day.. the same....

Then the **** set in. I came down with a very severe throat infection and had trouble even getting to the competition. I persevered for the next two days watching my lead diminish, till on the last target the defending World Champion shot a 19 to my 17 to beat me by 2 points.
Mind you the awesome part of the whole thing is that Vince (the Yank) had to beat my new WR by 5 points on that last day...and that was incredible.

I still held 2 WR's and was now determined more than ever to get really serious about this game.

Back to America the following year to test myself again, still the bridesmaid with 3rd in the American & Canadian Nationals and 2nd in the Nth American Championships.

The next year '98' New Zealand and after some great days of shooting, I walked away with the World Championship.

I lost the title in South Africa two years later, didn't manage anything spectacular in Scotland last year, so I am preparing for the USA again next year.

Freestyle Limited has some brilliant shooters contesting it on the World circuit. Sure there isn't much in OZ and that's the part that is frustrating.

I have my goals, I also shoot against release shooters when I am training and it's good to really give them a touch up.

I do shoot a release as well, but I can say with all honesty, I do this to enable me to concentrate on the aiming side of my game. I had recognised that my aiming ability had diminished and I am certain that that is what has let me down in the past.

You see, it isn't really about a division. It's about archery and what you put in and get get out of it.

"amaizing experiences" and lots of friends.

Cheers

[Randall Wellings]

While I'm sure RooDog's last line was aimed at me

Hey Marcus, didn't you accuse me of being usually paranoid??

"it doesn't always have to be about you, you know" :wink: :lol:

cheers

[Marcus]

:rofl:

[Brad]

I can see where you're coming from Randall. Pity there aren't more in FSL to give you some good competition.

How would you decrease the amount of categories, if at all.

Brad

[Bruce]

Brad , I don't need to reduce the divisions as such .

I think its time that shoot directors start to amagamate groups or divisions .

Why have Bowhunter unlimited flight 1 and 2 if there are only 10 archers competing , at a branch level make it one division . If there are less than Ten put them up into the Freestyle unlimeted division . The good ones shoot the same or Higher score than the fsu anyway . In the longbow divisions and recurve if the numbers are down , use your discression , group them together in there grades , b grade is the same score wether it is shot with a stick or a bent bow .

We have already grouped the men and the women together , but if there are only a few in each grade push em up into the next highest . Clubs just need to start doing this and not be scared .
At state and national titles all divisions and grades should be catered for , branch and club shoots make the divisions competitive .

I had no complaints after amalgamating the groups at wra

Sorry I didn't get to BMB last weekend , Bloody work.

[Randall Wellings]

How would you decrease the amount of categories, if at all.

I don't think we need to reduce anything...we should be putting our efforts is into the promoting the sport. :roll:

If as much effort was put into promoting as there is into demoting...you may need to get a ticket to start shooting. :lol:

Promoting the IFAA game more and encouraging folks to have a go would do wonders as well.

cheers





cheers

[Bruce]

I agree with you there on promoting the IFAA game Randall .

It is my favourite game to play , just wish I could get more aba players to give it a go.

I have talked a few newbies into trying it at the state titles next month , but they all get concerned with the longer shots that they have heard about . But after you explain that there are more shots at ABA distances than greater than aba distances they get reassured. How do you try and get newbies involved?

[Marcus]

There would be many more players if ABA would let AA guys play, even if not for the medals. Wish they could come to some agreement. I love IFAA, but just cannot justify paying 2 fees right now.

[Randall Wellings]

just cannot justify paying 2 fees right now.

Marcus..it goes both ways.

Think of the hundreds of ABA shooter who would love to play FITA games.

Their main issue too is the very expensive A.A. fee and no, you can't keep using the tempory player forms. :roll:

Cheers

[Randall Wellings]

How do you try and get newbies involved

Bruce, I have always encouraged that 'newbies' to shoot from whatever distance they feel comfortable...I do the same with 3D and ABA.

I believe it is our responsibility to teach these 'newbies' how to shoot correctly and learn in an environment that is conducent with good form and technique.....I encourage all new ABA (and some old) to join us at our A.A. club, either for the beginner

[Brad]

Hey you AA guys, is there a limit to poundage when you shoot your game. I heard there was. I wouldn't mind giving it a try somtime.

Bruce,
So there is nothing to stop me, as shoot director, from joining groups together?? Are there any specific rules???

Thanks

Brad

[Randall Wellings]

is there a limit to poundage

Brad

There is a 60lb limit, but not too many 'competent' A.B.A. shooters would be shooting in excess of this. Why would you? :roll:

Cheers

[Bruce]

No Brad, there are no guidlines as such you just need to use common sense.
eg you wouldn't put a longbower into the fsu class

[Kuru]

If people want to shoot longbow they should be made to shoot with fsu :evilbat:

[Brad]

Hey Roodog i shoot 80lbs!!!!!

Don't judge me yet.

Brad

[Randall Wellings]

i shoot 80lbs!!!!!

WHY??

Don't judge me yet.

Judges are out ...verdict pending

cheers

[Brad]

It allows me to shoot heavier arrows quicker. Like to get full pentration on ALL game. I belive we owe it to the animal to finish it as quickly as possible.

A lot of people tell me that they shoot lower poundages and they shot such and such an animal with no problems. In most cases it's probably right, but no one tells you the ones that they didn't recover/kill. You know the ones that run off with an arrow sticking out of them.

I want to be able to bring down a Buff (Hopefully i'll get a chance in Aug).

Brad.

PS I shot a 780 then 782 at our 2 day shoot on the weekend. Came second by 2 points to someone who shoots lower poundage.

PPS I'm 6'3'' and 92Kgs.

[Randall Wellings]

PS I shot a 780 then 782 at our 2 day shoot on the weekend. Came second by 2 points to someone who shoots lower poundage

Perhaps with decent poundage and you may have come in first by more than 2 points :o :roll: :o

Hey, I agree totally with you and the explanation for shooting high poundage when hunting is really not an issue.
However, it frustrates me somewhat to watch talented archers shooting high poundage on a field course.
More often than not the rationale given is that I shoot what I hunt with, don't want to upset the combination of me and bow.

Unfortunately, this determined hunter fails to realise he would do himself such an incredible favor buy developing much better form at the lower poundage (during the field shoot), a form which would be carried into the hunt.

[Brad]

Well that my reason as well. Hunting is my main priority and shooting ABA IFAA and 3D are all just practice.

Maybe one day i might try just trget gear and see how far i can go.

Brad

[Randall Wellings]

ABA IFAA and 3D are all just practice.

Brad, maybe you should back that sucker off somewhat and just do a round or two (for the fun of it) and notice how much better you will control the bow and the shot...developing good form.

Afterall, how many shots do you get off per day, on a hunt?

Cheers

[Brad]

Yeah i should, but i won't yet. I know my form will suffer but i would prefer to practice at the poundage that i am going to hunt with. I hunt at least twice a week at the moment.

I'ts hard enough to shoot when you have 'buck' fever without trying to shoot a bow/poundage that you're not used to.

[Randall Wellings]

I hunt at least twice a week at the moment

Lucky bugger....but then, how can you...your always here on the forum :wink: :D :roll:

cheers

[Lyne de Heaume]

[PPS I'm 6'3'' and 92Kgs.]

He's handsome as well.[/quote]

[Brad]

Roodog,

Thurs and Sat mornings. Sunday too if there's no shoot at the club.

Plus you're on here as much as me. Maybe you should get out and about too. Much stuff around your area to hunt.

Lyne,

Watch you talking about???

[Randall Wellings]

Brad..shhhhh..I am suppose to be working.

We have a lovely pig population in the area, lots of foxes and are only a few hours from Red, Rusa and Fallow...as they say about Queensland "Perfect by Nature"

Cheers

[Brad]

What do you do??

Victoria isn't the best state to live in for game. Although we do have a lot of deer. Sambar (premier game animal of Aust) only 2 hrs away. Fallow and Red only 15mins away. Lots of foxes and rabbits too. Just wish there were pigs here!

Went up near Wilcania 2 weeks ago after pigs (first time). Had a ball. They're good fun to hunt. Lot easier than deer.

Maybe i'll get up your way one day.

If your ever down here.......

Brad

[Randall Wellings]

I'm an Electrician actually...but stick my nose into a lot of other things as well.
Grunters are good, you really know that your on to something good when the local dogger won't let his dogs go in on a pig because of its size...I hope that he hasn't set his traps cause like a fool I showed him where I found this pig.

Was in Sale on Queen's Birthday for the IFAA titles, maybe next time we can get a hunt in and if your up this way, same thing goes.

Cheers

[Brad]

Yeah i thought about going down to Sale, but it was on the weekend which i went hunting up at Wilcania. I wasn't going to swap a hunting trip for IFAA even though i like it. Got my first pig and and my first trophy class boar. Good fun hunting pigs!!

Anytime your down this way give us a call and i'll organise something.

Brad

[Lyne de Heaume]

Brad

Mara put me up to it.
Don't worry, you're perfectly safe.

[Brad]

Thanks Lyne.

Don't let Michael know about this forum or we'll never shut him up!!!!