ABA intermediate course

[Marcus]

We ran an intermediate training course at the AV side a few months ago with huge success. Would this be an interest to the ABA shooters? Archery is the same form wise no matter what style you shoot so I'm sure that myself and Erika would be interested in helping coach.
Afterall after the beginners course most shooters are left to their own devices and everyone from the newby barebow shooter to the unlimited shooter with 20 years experiance needs external help to improve.

Any thoughts?

[Eberbachl]

I can't speak for the others, but this ABA shooter would be interested.

I could probably even help out with the newbie barebow shooters!

I think the intermediate course is a great idea. I remember when Hayley and I finished the begginers course nearly three years ago we were left to our own devices and were both very disillusioned with the whole process. This led us to actually go and join Lilydale. After this it's a long story, but suffice is to say we let our membership with Lilydale lapse and came back to DVA.

If I can help with a barebow/field intermediate course I would be only too happy!:)

[Marcus]

That's what really drove us to do one. Watching shooters struggle and then not come back was very upsetting. I was lucky because I got to shoot with some fantastic shooters when I started who helped me along, but most people are shy when it comes to asking for help.
Personally I don't think you would need help but could really pass along some good info. I havn't seen Hayley shoot so I can't comment there.
We'll talk about it some more and see what would be the best way of doing it.
We did video shooting in our last course to show people where they needed work.

[Eberbachl]

Hayley is getting better and better, but could really use some help. I try, but because I don't shoot sights and don't really know what I'm doing in that department i'm very limited with what I can do.

[Marcus]

Does she shoot a release aid? Erika might be the best person to help her, probably less threatening than a guy telling her what to do too. Erika trained at the AIS and has really good form, she was also a recurve shooter and knows both very well.

[Eberbachl]

Yep, Hayley shoots bowhunter unlimited with pins and a release aid. She shoots a PSE Spyder Venom, at around 38 lbs.

Hayley is not too fussed about being perfect, but she is starting to shoot quite well now, and with some guidance from somebody who knows about sights, releases etc... could do really well. :D

If Erika can help, that's great, but Hayley is pretty easy going and I'm sure she won't be intimidated by you or David or somebody - you're all nice:)

We recently had some advice from David about the positioning of her sight bar, and tuning the arrow rest which hes helped considerably .

[Marcus]

Yeah that's cool. Don't you hate this lack of competitive fire. Erika use to sit there amazed at how worked up I'ld get at basketball and archery just because I wasn't winning. Hey, losing sucks!

Dad isn't a form person, never has been. He can tell you if something is way out, but he believes that equipment tinkering is the fun bit. Erika is exacly the opposite. She believes in form and almost form alone. (although she does understand you must be tuned correctly) I am 33% form 33% mental and 33% gear. Without the blend you get nowhere.
You were shooting well today I think you could coach her just fine. But again we'll look and see if we see something you don't.

Who told you we are nice lied dammit!!

[Eberbachl]

Thanks,

...Of course after my big change today I'll be after some advice too no doubt. But I'll still help out with berebowers if I can:)

I agree about having a blend though, I reckon I'm about 20% form, 30% gear and about 50% mental. I think it's the mental side of winning that's often underrated.

P.S... I've been just reading these posts to Hayley who is sitting on the couch watching tele, and she said that she would love it if Erika could help her a bit.:)

[Marcus]

I use to say 90% mental and te rest form and gear. Then I had a moment of clarity, or was it whiplash?

Firstly this is something unprovable.

Have you seen those marketing toss things where they draw three circles and they all overlap leaving a common section in the middle? That's what I think it is. It's just that instead of giving all the same amount of work most concentrate on one or two. Some people believe that if they get their gear right they will shoot 1440 fitas, in the meantime they neglect their form or mentl side. Others work on gear and form and fall apart when they need it most. Some believe that there is no point getting better gear till they are shooting better, thus they never do because their gear sucks.

However each of the three items have different levels of difficulty to master. Gear is easy, it's not rocket science (no combustables for one thing, except some PSE limbs, they blow all the time) form is hard but most peopple do OK, mental is a killer because most people are not true to themselves. They shoot a bad shot and change stabilizers. They develop gold shyness and refuse to do the work needed to fix it.

Personally I figure my gear is OK, my form is good so it must be the mental side that sucks. Hence 90% of my work {*b}should{b*} go in that direction.

For a good book get "Understanding Winning Archery" can't remember the author though.

[Neil Turner]

Just to add to the reference material, "The Simple Art of Winning" by Rick McKinney explains about the Form, Mental and Equipment aspects of archery. As a beginner I find it informative and often refer back to it when trying to understand the refinements of archery. :cool

[Marcus]

I'll tell ya what, McKinney has the strangest form though. He has this dead release and at full draw looks very non-olympian. However if I was to rate the 10 greatest archers of all time he would be in the top 5. Absolute champ and I doubt you could go wrong reading his books.
If you can find Understanding winning archery it is worth a read as Al Henderson the author was actually McKinney's coach. I'm going to order a copy so I'll lend it to you if you wish. Might try and get the book you are referring to as well.

[Neil Turner]

Marcus, I see what you mean about McKinney's release. I borrowed the clubs copy of Jay Barrs "The Winning Edge" and Rick has a cameo appearance.

Always interested in reading and gathering more imformation about archery that may help me to gain an extra point. Will look around for the Al Henderson Book.

[Marcus]

Well after 7 years of shooting, 20 state events, 3 Nationals, a Trans tasmen and AIS training I can tell you I still know squat about what it really takes to win. I think most people say "I'll worry about the mental bit when my gear and form are good" or they give up after years of shooting believing that because tournaments don't make em nervous anymore that they have it covered.
How's this. I reached the correct mental state in Basketall and grid iron in only a few years of each sport, but archery still elludes me. (so does spelling). I still don't have it right, it's the hardest thing in the world to master and the easiest to ignore.
What am I trying to say? I forgot. :confused
Oh yeah, because you are new to the sport it's great you are getting on this part of it early, keep at it, one day it will click and it will make sense, you'll go "wow, I just shot 6 perfect shots and didn't even notice!" and they will be in the or around the 10.
The worst bit about mental archery is that there are so few who can TELL you how to do it and what it feels like.

[Marcus]

Luke
Was watching Hayley shoot the other night and in general she is quite good, really showed by some of the groups she put in. I think just working on getting steady would help those left and right shots and improve grouping in general. The bow was jumping around a bit.
However she would have to have the best ABA form I've seen in the women's divisions and very very good for a target shooter too.
Grip was a worry, the spread hand looks unrelaxed and would cause tension in the bow arm. Looks like she is doing it because of a snatching bow problem in the past. However the patient release gives her the perfect foundation to become a champion shooter, if only you could get her to practise ;) and she could judge distances. Would make a good target shooter :)

[Eberbachl]

Hi Marcus,

Thanks for the tips:) I think you're right about the spread hand, very unrelaxed, and an offshoot from when she used to relly throttle the bow before shooting a finger sling.

Her form is essentialy quite good i think, but a little inconsistnet (more practising :D). As far as judging distance is concerned, ......well that might be the hardest thing:):)