The YIPS

[clever_guy]

Speaking of proprioception, there was an interesting segment on Discovery (CA) about "the yips".

http://www.exn.ca/cgi-bin/query2.idq?CiRestriction=yips
(click on The YIPS for video of segment)

A sports MD in the USA has been looking at long time golfers (pros) who have had sudden problems with putting. Specifically a sudden loss of motor control for fine movements. What they are looking at it whether the putting problems are related to performance anxiety or whether it is a form of a dystonia - and how wide spread the problem may be (looking at typists, and musicians as well).

In the part of the segment that was on TV, they measured brain activity of golfers putting and looked for erratic results. The doctor who was conducting the tests recommended to a number of golfers that they should concentrate on relaxing their jaw muscles when executing to help combat the situation.

Interesting parallels considering archery is a sport of fine motor control as well. And we all know about performance anxiety (TP)...

;)

-CG

[Harald]

So chewing gum for relaxation when shooting is not it?
lol
Harald :bday:

[robbo]

So chewing gum for relaxation when shooting is not it?
lol
Harald :bday:

Makes it hard for a consistant anchor point. :-?

[recurve boy]

I actually find chewing gum makes my anchor more consistant. It reminds me to put my teeth together when I shoot. No one ever said you have to keep chewing robbo! :D

[Dave Barnes]

Hahaha, i always thought that the word YIPS was just a word that we used at the AIS when we are been dicks and talking about flinching, but now i know that its real. :D

[robbo]

Yips is a real word? :-?

[Eberbachl]

Hey Robbo,

...according to Merriam-Webster Dictionary :-)

Main Entry: yip
Pronunciation: 'yip
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): yipped; yip

[robbo]

1 : to bark sharply, quickly, and often continuously
2 : to utter a short sharp cry
- yip noun
:

I thought that was Yapping. :D

[Eberbachl]

Yap - according to Merriam-Webster Dictionary :-)

Main Entry: 1yap
Pronunciation: 'yap
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): yapped; yap

[robbo]

Yip..Yap, sounds the same to me. :D

[robbo]

Both sound noisy. :P

[James Park]

If you mention the word "yips" to a golfer he will immediately go into a mad panic. It is a golfer's nightmare - you get golfers missing 30 cm putts by 1 M ( I have seen it happen, it is very real). I think the equivalent for an archer would be target panic or major flinching (sort of like missing the whole target butt at 30 M when you normally just hit the gold, which I have certainly seen).
The mere mention of the word to a golfer sends shivers down his spine.

[Zoe]

I had the most appalling case of the yips once with a set of throwing knives. Mike and his then flatmate were hurling their new-found toys down the corridor into a set of telephone books (occasionally missing and taking out huge chunks of plaster on the wall behind). I had a go and the first two were reasonably accurate (as I expected they would be :lol: ), but I think the third slipped, bounced off the target and took out a chunk of the wall (didn't worry the boys but worried me!). After that, I could not for the life of me get anywhere remotely near the target. I knew exactly when to let go of the knife (proprioception?), yet somehow the signal got blocked (or overridden) somewhere b/w brain and fingers. Consequently, I would let go really really really late (so it would just bounce off the floor), or not let go at all. It was quite fascinating! I eventually had to give up for fear of stabbing myself in the foot - seriously! (the boys thought the whole thing was hilarious of course :roll: I think they just put it down to me being a girl)

Same thing from time to time with throwing a ball, where the fingers just will not open at the moment they are meant to - especially when it's critical that you're super accurate. You see it from time to time with fielders in cricket (and I'm sure it would be quite devastating to a fast-bowler).

I get the yips in my bow arm from time to time (small jerky movements), but thankfully not in my release hand. If I did, I can easily imagine how it could quickly spiral into absolute disaster!! Target-panic central.

Anyway, I think I can forget my dreams of ever being a circus knife-thrower! :cry:

(I suspect this is what James' proprioception link was referring to when it talked about "loss of proprioception", but I think it's a different phenomenon. That is, your 'proprioception' is still functioning but it's messages are being blocked by something much more powerful and sinister! Die, powerful and sinister thing, die!)

[clever_guy]

Zoe;

You don't really have a loss of proprioception so much as an undeveloped sense of proprioception, just just like everyone (barring abnormality) has a sense of balance to some extent - some finer than others. Some people naturally have a better sense of proprioception and others refine it. Just because you have a fine sense of proprioception doesn't mean you execute a movement correctly every time, your brain still makes judgement errors in calculations, despite the mind being concious of the body's "awareness".

I think what you are describing is just a "brain fart", you goof up get nervous and then for the life of you, can't manage whatever the movement is either because you are over-compensating or lack of concentration. I think everyone has experienced that at one point, and its pretty embarassing ussually.

;)

As far as "the yips" and archery goes, what I was getting to was that there is performance anxiety (TP) and then there is "the yips". If "the yips" is a form of a dystonia as they suspect, then it becomes a different problem - but shares the same symptoms. Take an archer who has been shooting at a fairly high level and all of a sudden his/her score drops and cannot hold the pin in the center anymore. Right now we all say a really bad case of "TP" and assume it is performance anxiety, which would be primarily a psychological problem manifesting itself physically, where as instead it may have a neurological (physical) cause (like a specialized stroke).

So telling the archer to force him/herself to hold steadier on the gold won't help at all, because they have lost the fine motor skills required to hold a bow steady, gradually execute BT (release), or control relaxing fingers (Oly). Like a stroke victim the archer with "the yips" has to find a way to retrain/relearn neural pathways - as if s/he is starting archery from scratch again. If this is the case, imagine how many archers give up shooting either at a competative level or completely. Also, , if it is "the yips", how effective are some of the "cures" for TP, like switching appetures (dot to ring), blind shooting, etc.

Being able to determine if the archer has a form of a dystonia may better help in training, and provide a better understanding of some of the more complex problems in performance archery.

-CG

[robbo]

After that, I could not for the life of me get anywhere remotely near the target. I knew exactly when to let go of the knife (proprioception?), yet somehow the signal got blocked (or overridden) somewhere b/w brain and fingers

Clearly a case of brocken pro...proprioceptors. :wink:

[Zoe]

CG, yes I agree, "loss of proprioception" is the wrong term for this sort of thing (if I think about "loss of proprioception", I'm thinking of things like people on a heroin high believing they're a dog or something like that :-? ).
Yes, I was talking about systematic "brain farts" i guess, otherwise known as "the yips". (Don't agree with the lack of concentration thing though, would've thought the opposite was the case).
As I understand it, the current thinking on "yips" is i) that it's a type of performance anxiety (either conscious or subconscious) that causes sporadic/involuntary muscle movements (which is what I was alluding to in my throwing-knives case) or ii) that it's a form of dystonia. And never the twain shall meet (?)
The jury's still out on that though.

In golf, isn't it meant to happen only with experienced golfers though? Doesn't seem to be the case with archers.

[clever_guy]

Zoe;

"In golf, isn't it meant to happen only with experienced golfers though? Doesn't seem to be the case with archers."

Sure it does. High calibre archers go through bouts of performance anxiety (TP). The question is whether in some cases it may actually be a dystonia. Part of what the researchers are looking at is how wide spread these dystonia's may be. They are also looking at musicians, typists, etc., this specialized loss of fine motor skills can apparently happen with a variety of learned repetative movements. In my mind it is more likely that an archer would have performance anxiety than a dystonia in most cases, performance anxiety of various sorts are very common in competative sports.

"As I understand it, the current thinking on "yips" is i) that it's a type of performance anxiety (either conscious or subconscious) that causes sporadic/involuntary muscle movements (which is what I was alluding to in my throwing-knives case) or ii) that it's a form of dystonia. And never the twain shall meet (?)"

I don't know. You have two potential problems, one based physically, one primarily psychological with physical manifestations. From what I have read there are degrees of dystonia just like there are degrees to which a stroke will effect a person (whick parts of the brain suffer blood loss for how long in the case of a stroke). There is no reason to assume that you couldn't suffer from a combination of both given the right situation, ie develop a dystonia and as a result of the performance loss develop some form of performance anxiety. Who knows...

-CG