Me Harping again

[Marcus]

OK so last year the Australian National Coach said
I would like to see juniors shooting shorter distances, only then will they improve
Remember we pay this guy.
Talking to the TAS AA rep she was saying that the Junior commitee has instead of saying "we want shorter distances" failed to make a decision.
What is wrong with the people running juniors? Why can't you make a decision that is the most logical to improving junior archery?
Doug assured me at the coaching camp that AV was determined to see the distances shortened, yet nothing has happened!
If AV is so determined then why doesn't AV start shooting shorter distances for the state titles? While this issue drags on Juniors suffer, but then juniors don't make decisions on their own shooting so I guess the seniors on these commitees don't care too much. I've got juniors who CAN NOT MAKE THE REQUIRED DISTANCES yet want to compete. Why are we making them injure themselves just to compete?

[Robert Halley-Frame]

The Junior Development Officer position is up for election this year in Vic.

:D :D

[foo]

What distances do the juniors currently shoot?

Is it anything like the US JOAD program? I believe the European juniors also shoot the same distances. Can't argue with a program that produces the likes of Frangilli, Wunderle or Petersson.. (btw.. these are all recurve shooters.. I have no idea about compound.. :wink: )

http://www.texasarchery.org/JOAD/JOADDistances.htm

[Marcus]

Yeah it is the same distance, however keep in mind that both Wunderle and Frangilli are both from archery families and have shot their whole lives.
Thing with juniors is that the cream will always rise to the challenge. The problem lies with the ones who don't shoot as often. Take a 14yo boy who shoots once weekend, previously he would've shot 55m, doable for a 35# compound. Currently he would shoot a Ladies FITA, almost impossible to do and not any fun at all for that kid.
One of the arguements is that we need our U18's shooting adult distances because that's what they shoot at the World's. Fact is only a handful of kids shoot at he Worlds anyway and trust me, they would be shooting adult distances no mattr what. (When I was a junior I shot in Men's divisions to practise for the Nationals because that's what Jackson Fear was doing and he was the one to beat)

So basically why penalise everyone else just ecause the Americans are doing it? We produced Simon Fairweather and he shot Ladies FITAs as an U18.

[Kuru]

Great topic !!! A 14 year old kid should not be shooting a ladies fita. How soon will they find another sport where they don't have to stand at 70 meters and spray arrows everywhere. There's no fun in that !

[foo]

I might be wrong, but perhaps the problem is too much emphasis on the FITA round (by both competitors and organisers).

I know in Vic we have things like the State short range and indoor championships but those sort of events tend to be rare. Most of the other inter club events tend to be FITA's.

In the newsgroups/discussion boards I visit, the European's talk about the FITA900, Indoor and even Short Metric comps/championships. Perhaps if those sort of things were more common then Juniors wouldn't mind missing a state/national FITA event because they couldn't make the distance.

But then again, I don't know if distance is an issue. I remember that at least one US NAA junior champion shot FITA rounds holding ~28lbs at the fingers (using ACE's). Similarly, Denis Parker won her first national title shooting 28lbs. I don't know how this translates to compounds. But the point is that (I don't think) 28lbs isn't an injury causing weight for a 14 year old, especially if they've been shooting for at least a year..

[Marcus]

Good thinking Foo. It would be much easier for everyone involved if the FITA900 was used as the event decider. You could even make it a double. Because it's a standard round you could use it for U18 to U14, and the U12 can shoot a Junior Canberra.
Can't comment on Denise Parker, however she is considered a godess in the US Archery circles, and I doubt given the choise she would shoot that weight again.

Also keep in mind that while a kid can make the distance they may not shoot it vey well, why discourage them so young?

[McDoof]

Hi everyone...

As I already posted I'm 19 years old and I think I somehow know what you are talking about.

In Germany (where I live) there are a lot of good 12 to 16 years old archers. I have to admit I was better when I was competing at the shorter distances (nearly 1300 points when I was 14 years) but I guess there are several reasons for the drop in my results.

It might sound strange but when you are younger you do not think this much about your shooting technique and other things surrounding you. Furthermore hitting the gold at shorter distances requires less training then longer distances do. I recognized that when I had to change from the ladies round to the real FITA round.

My scores at the longer distances are not bad but it is harder to perform well at all distances. To prove this I have to say that with my amount of training sessions (summer 3 to 4 times a week - every about 3 hrs) it is manageable to make about 1250 as a recurve archer (although I never did so in competition).

I think:
- the increase of bow weight is necessary - with control by coach
- the bow of the kids should be tuned as good as possible (I'm tuning mine on my own since I'm 14)
- kids have to make experiences with wind, ... (they have to be prepared for something like that to be able to handle it)
- kids should improve their own shooting technique if this technique works
- kids should have fun at shooting sessions
- kids should also compete at training sessions (best with each other)
- ...

At least I think most of the kids do not have realistic goals that they want to reach at competitions (they discourage themselves and others do so by telling them what they have to reach. Often they think that going from ladies to mens FITA round will not change much at their scores what is definitly wrong.
In my opinion kids, teenagers have to manage longer distances because if their technique is O.K. there will be no real problem to reach good scores at longer distances. This thing is like the real life: you always have to grow and to improve yourself!!

[foo]

Also keep in mind that while a kid can make the distance they may not shoot it vey well, why discourage them so young?

For National Fita events:
I think it depends on the current state of Junior archery. If we have Juniors who can shoot the distance well, we should keep it. Those that can't shoot it well should think of it as a goal to aim for and perhaps practice at shorter distances/indoor. (Do we have a National FITA900??)
I see National events as a gathering of the best. Of course, those who aren't so good are welcome to join in the fun, but we shouldn't lower the standards to accomodate them.

However, if we have don't Juniors who can do it, then perhaps we should shorten the distance.. :oops:

[Marcus]

I guess that's the question isn't it? What do you consider good?
Also what is the goals of Junior archery?

In my last year as a junior the top 3 places shot 1300's or were capable of it. I say top 3 because we usually got about 8-12 shooters.
2001 had NO U18 boy compound shooters, this year we had 1.

When we were shooting Ladies FITA's we had at least 3 who could shoot 1300, and 2 who could shoot 1350. (In fact at the time we could've made our state team qualifyer 1325 and still fieldded the same team)
Now at the last State Target the highest Ladies FITA was 1170, and we were a year older.

At the Trans Tasmen no Australian U16 boy shot over 1300, at the Last Junior Nationals to have Ladies FITA for U18 the top 4-5 shot 1300+.

So despite the longer distances making the juniors better the scores are worse, alot worse. Reason is that juniors are rushed into shooting too far. By shooting shorter distances their confidence grows and allows their scores to come along at a normal speed. A 14 year old boy is not going to feel good about shooting 50m on a small face, the same as a fully grown adult.

In Victoria we have about a quarter of the juniors competiting in shoots as we did 10 years ago. getting 15-20 U15 boy compounders was not uncommon, getting 10-15 U18 was not uncommon. Only 2 things have changed
More divisions added
Distances made vastly longer

Fact is that if you shorten the distances BACK to where they were 10 years ago the top shooters will still win, but the mid and low end shooters will enjoy it more, and that will keep peole in the sport.
Example of that is that in the 1993 Jnr top 3 in U18 were (Ladies FITA)
Jackson Fear
Michael Harkness
Marcus Anear

The following year (Mens FITA)
Jackson Fear
Marcus Anear
David Luyer
(Harkness won U21)

So it doesn't even the odds, however it does allow more people to compete and ultimatly THAT is our goal as a sport, not just training people to win the Worlds. (as a side note Jackson and Nicole Bartlett went on to win the World Jnr Titles. Both shot almost their entire lifes shooting he shorter distances. Since them I'm not aware of Australia coming close to a Jnr World title, proof that it doesn't make our Jnrs better).
:)

[foo]

Good points.

If I read you right, in 1994 the distances for Juniors were changed.
What was the reasoning behind the change?

[Marcus]

In 1994 they made 2 changes. First they changed the divisions from U18, U15 and U12 to U21, U18, U16 and U12. They also made the U16 and U18's shoot longer distances. These were to brng us inline with what the New Zealanders were doing.
We argued that we won the Trans Tasmen each year, why are we following them?
The U21 was enetered because that year alot of old time juniors had turned 18 and their parents were on the commitees, you can figure the rest out there.

Thing was that there were no problems with the old divisions and old distances. No one complained they were too short, everyone was happy. Now not everyone is happy (and we should be paying attention to the National coach) and yet it goes unchanged.

[Coen]

Hey guys. My name's Coen Clarke. I'm 16y.o and have just gone back to 90m only recently. personally I love the challenge of longer distances, and so do alot of my peers at my club & my friends on the state team (nsw). I just thought i'd put my part into it, i'd like to hear any replies.

[Marcus]

Welcome aboard Coen, great to have more juniors joining the forum.
What kind of scores are you shooting at 90m?

[Coen]

well, i've only shot 90m once at the end of the day (so i was pretty fatigued) but i was still getting resonable scores for a first timer (i think). i was shooting smthg like 45-48 consistantly. i'll b shooting 2moro so i'll b able to giv u a better idea then.

[Coen]

well, i've only shot 90m once at the end of the day (so i was pretty fatigued) but i was still getting resonable scores for a first timer (i think). i was shooting smthg like 45-48 consistantly. i'll b shooting 2moro so i'll b able to giv u a better idea then.