THE ABA's Future

[Major]

After having recently dealt with various members of the ABA's National Executive in respect of several issues relating to my club (which will remain nameless), I am able to confirm all of the previous "horror stories" I have heard and read about these people.
Over the course of my recent investigation, which included enquiries regarding the ubiquitous insurance coverage issue, I became fully aware of how difficult and obstructionist the National Executive can be. To be honest, I have never in my life come across such aggressive, defensive and bureacratic responses to very basic, straightforward questions. I have met more friendly and helpful ATO auditers!!
The reason for enquiries is that my club, an ABA club, is seriously considering disassociating with the ABA in favour of either going independent or affiliating with another archery association. The irony of the National Executive's recalcitrant behaviour is that it reinforces many of the negative views of the ABA held by our members.
It's sad to think that an organisation with such noble goals and a proud history, will ultimately lose a long-time club affliate simply because it is unwilling (or unable) to effectively articulate its value to club members.

[Randall Wellings]

Irrespective of your intent...your lack of preparedness to place your name or that of the club involved, places you opinion in the trash basket...

As stated many times, it's easy to through sh*t when you hide behind an alias...
How can one expect to address and possibly resolve situations when dealing with, for all intensive purposes, 'a hypothetical situation '

There is no basis or relevance to your allegations unless you are prepared to stand behind your statements.....
There are disgruntled people in every association and heaven knows I have had my share of flack with the ABA executive...but I for one refuse to accept allegation from someone without the balls to back up their statements.

Cheers

[marion]

Randall there seems to be a lot of disgruntled members in the ABA. I understand there are quite a few clubs that have gone from the ABA to 3DAAA . Have any returned?
We would all like to resolve the problems within an association but this particular group (ABA) dont seem to want to play ball. What is difficult about answering members questions in a civil and professional manner, without being given the run around?
Pull your head out of sand.

[Marcus]

I find your reactions to these comments rather disturbing Randall. So far you have been the voice of defence for ABA on these issues online and have offered little but abuse in return.
Perhaps instead of calling out that this is all rubbish you should say 'well if this is correct what can we do about it?'

I'm sure Major does not want to jepodize his club's position just yet by revealing who they are. Afterall members of DVA received a letter full of propaganda from the ABA Executive after we published our letter to our members online. Even going so far as saying that our club's executive had a hidden agenda instead of trying to offer a solution to the problem. Seems their solution was to attempt an internal war within our member's ranks. However the backfire was that our ABA members were the ones making the decision, not our AV members.

[Randall Wellings]

Marion...you speak for only a very small minority...there are many members who don't have problems with the executive and are very content at the present time...

There are those that have left ABA to join other associations and they are quite entiltled to do so...heaven knows one of those others was formed by disgruntled ABA members and good luck to them..ABA its self derived from a fall out with A.A.

The old story hasn't changed..if you don't like the present situation,do something about it or you are welcome to go and find one that suits your needs...but all clubs and associations have their ups and downs and yes it is easy to jump ship, but what happens when that other ship starts to flounder...
Then there are those that decide that insteadof throwing the crap, they actually get involved and try to rectify the problem that ails them... if, as it turns out, they weren't successful, its because the MAJORITY of people in the association don't approve of the proposed change...simple democracy

As for me pulling my head out of the sand..I can assure you, I can see a great deal more from where I stand which is on top of the hill...not down on the flatland where you must be...cause it appears that you do have the weight of the world on your shoulders...it really ain't that bad...take the blinkers off and just be greatful for what you've got.

IMHO
Cheers

[Randall Wellings]

have offered little but abuse in return.

and Marcus..where is the abuse...I am certainly willing to be an ear to those that have got a gripe with ABA and in turn will be a voice to the executive for them...however, I will not take any notice of someone who makes a statement, but isn't prepared to back it with simple identity. Remember, this association is made up of individuals, thousands of them, and they have the right to have their elected representatives do just that...represent them

That's all...I am more than willing...ask...otherwise, how can I continue to disturb you...that's my job :wink:

Cheers

[OldDog]

What future 8)

[rinaldo]

Randall from what I remember you too were ready to jump ship from the ABA when 3DAAA first started. It had another name them.

What we are asking of the ABA are very simple and straight forward questions that any member has a right to ask, they continue to duck and dodge the issues. They are making trouble for themselves, we are trying to resolve these issues.

[Randall Wellings]

Randall from what I remember you too were ready to jump ship from the ABA when 3DAAA first started. It had another name them.

Rinaldo...WRONG!!.....geez I like this, baseless unfounded assumptions, really does bolster my case in that there is,
"there is always another side to every story"

I have never and I mean NEVER, wanted to jump ship...Yes, I did put on a demonstration of 3D as run by an American Association..The ASA..as an example of what was happening in other parts of the world...never as an alternative...

Don't worry, on another occasion even the dipsh*t president at the time ask me to show cause why I shouldn't be expelled, situation resolved to my satisfaction by the same people who are at the helm now.
I have also been subjected to a personal vendetta, again, resolved to my satisfaction by these same people.

As you can see, I've had my moments with the ABA, but will also acknowlege the present executive is doing a damn good job IMO...I will also acknowledge others may not be so fortunate as I.

As previously stated....this executive is our elected representatives and there is a new look executive being proposed...please, give them ago :D

They are making trouble for themselves, we are trying to resolve these issues.

If this is truly the case then the executive will be ousted at the forthcoming AGM....by the branch controllers sitting in the meeting for you and I.

cheers

[Major]

Randall,

Quite simply, my anonymity does nothing to detract from the veracity or authenticity of my statements concerning my experience in dealing with the National Executive. There is no direct correlation between truthfulness and disclosure of identity.

You previously pondered, "How can one expect to address and possibly resolve situations when dealing with, for all intensive purposes, 'a hypothetical situation".

My chagrin response to this query is that I no longer expect the ABA National Executive to address or resolve anything that it has done. I suspect it is quite beyond them to engage in such behaviour. Syd Green's conduct toward me was not hypothetical, but most real. As he is the titular head of ABA, to which all commercial matters and legal issues are referred, I suspect that there is little anyone else can do repair the ABA's image to my club members.

Regardless of whether my original posting belongs in the "trash basket", I'm afraid it highlights the beginning of the end of an era and a fatal fracture in the relationship between my club and the ABA. I gather from your reply to this and similar threads that you feel no sadness over the decline of ABA among certain segments of the archery community. In fact, I suspect that you are rather heartened by it, as you view these splits as somehow the "fault" of the individual clubs and take the view that the ABA is better served by their departure. This saddens me considerably.

Your assertion that members of any association should either tolerate the dictates of that organisation or try to change its internal machinations is quite accurate. Further, if these individuals are not satisfied with the results of their efforts to drive change within an association, I agree with you that they should leave rather than complain. Despite my agreement, this sentiment would sit more comfortably if bow hunting was not the sport involved. It is far too noble a pursuit to be subject to the petty squabbles of its adherents. Needless to say, my naivety has been quashed.

Major

[2Dogs]

Actually Randall you do have me confused.

When I was shooting IFAA you were an ABA member of ABA WideBay and an IFAA shooter. You were 99% IFAA man. You ran an Indoor center in Maryborough.

Then I go away for a while and I here you are shooting FITA recurve and at the AIS......then I hear you were at the Hervey Bay AA Club doing the Coaching.........then I hear your running a big 3D shoot at Maryborough, but when I come back I find you don't have anything to do with 3DAAA.

Then I see you were on the Sth QLD Board as a Rep for AA Hervey Bay, and helping organise the AA nats. Then you weren't. Then I hear about a big **** fight at the Hervey Bay AA Club involving some members......but your Still at the ABA Wide Bay Club.

So who is Randall Wellings ??? :D:D:D

Have to agree with Marcus, anyone thinks about criticizing ABA and you jump down their throat.

I can see the day (maybe within 5years) where there will be 2 archery organisations in Aus....and well ABA won't be one of them

[Best Mate of 2DOGS]

I agree with everything 2Dogs says of course :lol: :wink:

[Randall Wellings]

Actually Randall you do have me confused.

My intent totally :fist: :fist: but then again...your the one trying to f...k himself :lol: :lol:

As always IFAA through and through....member of A.A. coach in both,
play all games when I can....don't really give a sh*t about the politics...pisses me off big time when people assume the right to use the forum to constantly bag an association..and it doesn't matter to me which one...I am an archer and want the best for all archers, negativity has never gained one member...that's why I do defend against small minded and petty allegations...if these issues warrant attention, it will happen in due cause.

As far as your predictions 2dogs..what can I say..ok, so you had a win on the weekend...it happens...but i'm sure you 4th place is still waiting for you..it'll to will happen again..real soon :fist: :fist:

cheers

[Best Mate of 2DOGS]

2Dogs says to kiss his wide hairy Arse :fist:

and if he comes 4th...then you won't be going higher then 5th :lol:

Hey where were you at the BBQ on Friday night at Keiths house :D:D.....errr sorry Juile wouldn't let you in the driveway :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Randall Wellings]

Hey where were you at the BBQ on Friday night at Keiths house .....errr sorry Juile wouldn't let you in the driveway
do you really think for just a spit second that I would give a **** about any of the above...if for some reason you do....WRONG! again...

don't you get tired of being such a looser.... :fist: :fist:

besides, only you would know if Pauls arse is wide and hairy :o :o

cheers

[2Dogs]

don't really give a sh*t about the politics

Now come come RanDoll........from this thread and others talking about ABA......you seem to be very passionate about politics :D

RanDOLL for ABA President.....RANDOLL...RANDOLL RANDOLL :D:D:D:D

[Randall Wellings]

you seem to be very passionate about politics


WRONG...just care about the game :wink:

and charge your phone battery, how can all those potential bosses get in contact with you :lol: :lol:

cheers

[OldDog]

Its a good thing telstra shut you down 2dogs. It sounds like you were about to get a mouthfull. LOL :o :agrue:

[Eberbachl]

and Marcus..where is the abuse.

....just about every post you make on this Forum is abusive Randall....... :roll:

...and as far as ABA's future is concerned? I'm with 2Dogs on that one :-)

Unless the ABA executive makes some radical changes and actually starts giving a **** about it's members, I doubt it has much of a future in the long term.

[Randall Wellings]

Major
In fact, I suspect that you are rather heartened by it, as you view these splits as somehow the "fault" of the individual clubs and take the view that the ABA is better served by their departure. This saddens me considerably.


Not to make light of this situation at all, you have prejudged me and managed to make an assumption so far from the truth.
I understand your sentiments completely and actually agree with you on all points except you analysis of me.
I do not arbitrarily defend the ABA and the manner in which they carry out the daily business of the association...I do however defend the individuals who make up the executive, even those who have wronged me for they are my representatives.

Granted, there are many, many items that come up from discussion from time to time and then there are those that are always on the tongues of those quick to find fault..I am not pointing the finger at you personally, but there are people with their own agendas, pushing several issues.

As has been stated by others on this post, the insurance issue and the lack of information is very real. I wholeheartedly agree that the availability of the policy document would solve the problem, that is my personal opinion but it greaves me not that I can

[OldDog]

why indeed randall, It aint rocket science bud. It simply doesnt work.

[Randall Wellings]

It simply doesnt work.

for some Noel, for some...but the same can be said about A.A. on certain issues and no doubt 3daaa will no doubt their fair share of dramas behind the scene...
ABA will always work whist there are those prepared to hold positions, members prepared to address issues openly and those who follow protocol.
For without process

[Eberbachl]

..indead

Precisely Randall :rofl:

[Randall Wellings]

type O
hey, but you get that :lol: :lol:


cheers

[Clare Barnes]

..indead

Precisely Randall :rofl:

Glad to see that even in my absence spell check is available - thanks Eberbachl, Spelling King!! :D :D

[Eberbachl]

Glad to see that even in my absence spell check is available - thanks Eberbachl, Spelling King!!

My pleasure Spelling Queen :-D

[2Dogs]

right oh you two can hold hands and skip off now :rofl:

Abba's "Dancing Queen" Music playing in the background as you do :D

[Shermo]

Can we stop whinging about ABA on this forum! Don't get me wrong I couldn't give a **** about ABA's future or whatever they do, its just that all this crapping on about it is wasting space on Marcus' server that could be used for better subjects.

To abbreviate in quick detail;

-Everyone is pissed off with ABA cause they are to scared to show us their insurance policy because they think that this will lead to claims and people will find loopholes in their insurance.

-Many people dislike the ABA executive structure, and ABA executives, predominantly the older ones. As they are often very backward in their ways and only look after themselves.

-And the last point, ABA keeps ****loads of money from the shoots that they get the clubs to hold, and expect them to make money out of the raffles and canteen.

So now that all points are covered, no more whinging about ABA in this section of the forum! Please go to the ABA branches section, as I'm sure that I am one of many who don't want to here this same old sh#t anymore! :2gunfire:

[Eberbachl]

YES SIR!!!

BTW mate, when did Marcus make you a moderator?

You might not give a **** about ABA's future and what they do - but many people do care, and like to talk about it here :roll:

OK - so the thread may have been better in the ABA branch section - but hey lighten up a bit! If you don't want to read the same old **** - don't :wink:

If we can't discuss the running of governing bodies of archery at
Archery Forum - where can we do it?

Cheers,

Luke.

:angel: :bday: :angel:

PAUL:
"........you are a dancing queen ..... la la la...... :angel: :angel: "

[2Dogs]

"...you are the spelling queen.....lalala" :D

[Clare Barnes]

"...you are the spelling queen.....lalala" :D

Great - someone has taken the title off me! :roll: :D

[Randall Wellings]

Great - someone has taken the title off me!

that should be very 'tit'le ating Clare :boobies:

cheers

[Simon Gallen]

Nice set Randoll.

Anyway I have been reading this forum now for a couple of weeks and see that this topic i.e problems with ABA rases it head more than once. Let me say this from the start, I am not here to bag anyone. I agree with Randoll in that it doesn't matter what association you are involved with there will be whingers and problems. Whether its ABA, 3DAAA or whoever. I have just come back not long ago from the States where I shot the ASA classic- there were whingers, I shot the IBO - there were whingers and decisions I didn't agree with but after talking to the pres of IBO Ken WATKINS it is easy to see why these decisions were made. (I still didn't agree) All associations have there problems and will never please anyone but hopefully THEY can learn and attempt to improve.

I love shooting ABA but I do feel that they have not learnt a bloody thing. I have to agree with Andrew SHERMAN that I there appears to a couple main contentious issues with the ABA. Certainly the insurance issue and of course the money side of things. I have been involved in organising and running both ABA and 3DAAA shoots and I can tell you it pissess you off to put in all that effort to run an ABA shot for two to three dollars per shooter. Where do the $ go.

My main game is 3D archery. I love it but I honestly feel that ABA has done all it can to totally f**k up 3D in Australia. I'm not taking anything away from the clubs that have put on ABA 3D shoots as I know how difficult it is to set the ranges. Why make a simple sport difficult - why have three scoring systems to confuse people, why make certain divisions shoot a maximun 55 yards. I honestly feel that when ABA made their 3D game they were certainly not thinking of the shooters. And not to mention the crap targets they use. They really want to have a good look at themselves. If they were trying to get people to switch to shooting an alternative 3D game they can feel proud and have achieved well. On the brighter side, I feel that they have the best paper game.

Now don't get me wrong, 3DAAA alos have there fair share of problems but what I do like about the 3DAAA is that they seem to try things to address their problems and improve the game. It seems to me that only civil procedings will get things changed in ABA. (I am refering to the target face issue) .

Yeah, I supose that I am bagging ABA, but hey, these are only my opinions based on several years of dealing with both assosications.

I have great friends in both associations and am a member of both and it has really saddened me that personallities have caused such a major split in Archery in Australia.

Randoll, I know there has been a changing of the guard so to speak in the hierachy and all I can say is that I hope they start to listen and take one step back and have a really good look at what is going on. Perhaps you could take the heirachy of all archery governing assocations to the top of your hill and have a real good look down at what is going on.

I could really go on and on and I suppose I have been a bit of a fence sitter in the past but hey, this is a public forum and I have got nothing to lose in expressing my opinion. (other than my insanity).

[2Dogs]

I have been a bit of a fence sitter

:lol: that's an acquired skill ....welcome to the gentlemens club :wink:

[Randall Wellings]

you tight arsed bastard...you didn't offer to shout...
Oh well...next time we meet...i'll just have to take up drinkin :wink: :wink:

cheers

[Clare Barnes]

Great - someone has taken the title off me! :roll: :D

Marcus - you bastard! :lol: :lol:

Just noticed you added "Spelling Queen" to my name. :fist: :D

BTW how come bastard is not censored yet clout is? :-?

[OldDog]

cos clout is a bastard of a game :o :P :P

[Marcus]

LOL maybe I should make that "Slow Spelling Queen" :rofl:

[rob hines]

I was a little saddened to see Major slamming ABA on tuesday. especially having spoken to him at 7.30pm on Monday. The discussion, I believe was quite moderate and related to an event at his club that lead to some members agreeing to investigate the viabilty of leaving ABA for another organisation.
Lets review what happened - "Major" did contact the association requesting information about the insurance policy and at that time purported to be an executive officer of his club. His name did not appear on the annual application as an executive officer and as consequence was the request was denied.

A phone call to an executive officer of the club revealed that "Major" is the PRO for the club and the executive officer was not aware of the request.

On Wednesday evening I had phone contact with the same executive officer to see what concerns that the club may have and was told that the club management are quite happy with the current arrangements as are the local council that they lease their land from.

So what's the issue? "Major" has been a member of ABA since Feb 03 and obviously has an enquiring mind and thats fine.

Start at the Club level and enquire of your club Executive they may well have the information that you require.

[Shermo]

[quote="Simon Gallen"]Nice set Randoll.




My main game is 3D archery. I love it but I honestly feel that ABA has done all it can to totally f**k up 3D in Australia. I'm not taking anything away from the clubs that have put on ABA 3D shoots as I know how difficult it is to set the ranges. Why make a simple sport difficult - why have three scoring systems to confuse people, why make certain divisions shoot a maximun 55 yards. I honestly feel that when ABA made their 3D game they were certainly not thinking of the shooters. And not to mention the crap targets they use. They really want to have a good look at themselves. If they were trying to get people to switch to shooting an alternative 3D game they can feel proud and have achieved well. On the brighter side, I feel that they have the best paper game.

quote]

My sentiments exactly!

[Simon Gallen]

Thanks spped, good to see you're up so late.

Rob Hines,
It is very refreshing to see that you are looking at this forum. I too am new at this but fing it very informative. I suppose you didn't like what I said but I am still a keen ABA member and want to know your thoughts on the 3D game.

Can you fill us in on what may be installed for next year.

[Simon Gallen]

Thanks speed, good to see you're up so late.

Rob Hines,
It is very refreshing to see that you are looking at this forum. I too am new at this but fing it very informative. I suppose you didn't like what I said but I am still a keen ABA member and want to know your thoughts on the 3D game.

Can you fill us in on what may be installed for next year.

[Jacob Goodwin]

Rob,

This is Jacob Goodwin...you spoke to ME at 7:30pm on Monday ...NOT "Major" (another club member). If you have a problem with me or you suspect I've said something about you behind your back...might I suggest you contact me directly please? You have my contact details (phone, email, etc).

As I discussed with you on monday night, my position re the ABA vs 3DAAA is neutral, as I'm overseas next year. All I want to do is present a clear picture of both organisation to club members.
After your previous post, my impartiality is becoming more and more difficult to maintain.

Also, you might want to check your records. I've been an ABA since mid 1999!! AND I've been ELECTED to my club's Executive Committee for last two years and have been involved in various executive committee projects since that election. The fact that the "head" of ABA doesn't know this is quite concerning. Overall, your post was out of line and really poor form.

Jacob Goodwin

[2Dogs]

Rob Hines.......is that the guy they call "Bluey"

[robbo]

My main game is 3D archery. I love it but I honestly feel that ABA has done all it can to totally f**k up 3D in Australia. I'm not taking anything away from the clubs that have put on ABA 3D shoots as I know how difficult it is to set the ranges. Why make a simple sport difficult - why have three scoring systems to confuse people, why make certain divisions shoot a maximun 55 yards. .

:-?

I have shot both ABA 3D and 3DAAA, and don't see a great deal of difference. I enjoy both, I just enjoy archery, put a target up and I will shoot it.

Apart from the scoring , the main difference is that barebow shooters and recurve and longbow shoot from closer pegs. (I am a barebow shooter)55 yds is the same as 50 metres

I have shot with recurve and longbow archers shooting the longer distances and they seem to enjoy shooting it. But I do agree including another peg is an option that maybe/should be looked at.

With the inclusion of another peg, there is not lot of difference.

The whole of body scoring does make for a higher score, ( and I am undecided which is better) but then so does shooting 10 mtres closer.


It's a bit like the Holden/Ford thing.

A holden driver is goin to say holdens are better than fords and vice versa. Except me I drive a ford but I recon holdens are the best.
:wink:

[Randall Wellings]

Rob Hines.......is that the guy they call "Bluey"


YUP!! the one and the same :wink:

cheers

[Eberbachl]

Hi Rob,

Welcome to Archery Forum. :D

It's refreshing to see a member of the ABA National executive taking the time out to communicate with members at this level.

Thanks.

I hope you stick around - there's lots we can talk about :) - as you are well aware there is significant debate going on regarding a number of aspects of ABA. It will be great to hear some straight answers directly from the ABA National Executive :wink:

Cheers,

Luke Eberbach.

:bday: :angel: :bday:

[Shermo]

Although I might not agree with you Robbo, you don't make some valid points, slighlty on the defence for aba :lol: :lol: that's alright though you seem to just enjoy shooting and that's the main thing! But what about those aust style targets :fist: :fist: :fist: :fist: Mckenzies all the way!

[robbo]

Although I might not agree with you Robbo, you don't make some valid points,

????? :-? ?????

[robbo]

But what about those aust style targets :fist: :fist: :fist: :fist: Mckenzies all the way!

We shoot a mixture of Aust style, McKenzies and Canga.


I thought all you mathews shooters say rinehart are the best? :wink:

[robbo]

slighlty on the defence for aba :lol: :lol: that's alright though you seem to just enjoy shooting and that's the main thing!

I am an ABA shooter, so I guess it will come out that way.


But I am an Archer, aren't you?

[2Dogs]

Ok Robbo...time to go click on another thread :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Shermo]

Although I might not agree with you Robbo, you don't make some valid points,

????? :-? ?????
sorry robbo, the correct wording was 'although I might not agree with you completely Robbo, you do make some valid poimts!

[Simon Gallen]

Robbo,
You're kidding. I had a drink with some long bow fella's at the so call world titles a couple of years back and I would not like to say what they put on their score cards. Do you think they had fun smashing and loding their arows at 55 yards. NO WAY. It doesn't worry me, I shot an Aussie record(world record) on the weekend, all I,m saying is that no one like mssing the tsrget whether your an adult or my 3 year old son. It should be fun for everyone.

By the way, I have not seen bluey hines reply yet - are you there Bluey or was t hat someone speeking for you again????

:roll:

[Eberbachl]

Yes,

It's a shame Rob Hines left as soon as he got here.....

[robbo]

Robbo,
You're kidding. I had a drink with some long bow fella's at the so call world titles a couple of years back and I would not like to say what they put on their score cards. Do you think they had fun smashing and loding their arows at 55 yards. NO WAY. It doesn't worry me, I shot an Aussie record(world record) on the weekend, all I,m saying is that no one like mssing the tsrget whether your an adult or my 3 year old son. It should be fun for everyone. :roll:

I didn't shoot at the world titles (I han't started achery yet), my kids did and I agree that that shoot was hard.
It wasn't only longbowers that lost or smashed arrows. But all the 3D shoots I have done, (which is not a real lot) have been much easier than that.

As I said in a few of my posts, and the one in question, that an extra peg would be something to look into. I am not into smashing arrows either.

But I stand by my statement that I have shot with longbowers and recurvers and they have enjoyed shooting 3D, I know of a quite few compounders that choose to shoot 3D with a long bow regularly just for fun.

I think it's all about commonsense in setting up the course, which at the worlds was set very hard. Maybe that is to be expected at the world titles.

But I am all for a few changes if it makes the sport better.