Bernie Pellerite coaching methods

[Brad]

Hi all,

Just wondering what other people thought about Bernie Pellerite's coaching methods. For those of you that haven't heard about him he has an article in Archery Action (ABA Magazine) every month. I was also wondering if what he preaches is similar to what our coaches over he teach.

I have found it hard to get written info on form and other coaching methods. Waiting for James' book though.

Brad

[Ozzy]

Hi all,
Just wondering what other people thought about Bernie Pellerite's coaching methods.
Brad

Bernie's book "Idiot Proof Archery" is an absolute compound archer's bible.
Well worth a read. He talks commonsense re many aspects of compound shooting :wink: :o It could help many people if heeded.
The only negative with the book is the way he continually promotes his own products. :-? :wink:

[clever_guy]

"wondering what other people thought about Bernie Pellerite's coaching methods."

It's good for a laugh.

It's like going to weight watcher or Jenny Craig to learn about weight control - the only thing you are going to come out of it with is crap they are marketing. You won't find very many top American shooters who think much of the little "marketing troll", he thrives on the untrained bowhunter/3-D archer market.

Save your money and pick up James Park's book, I guarentee you will get more out of it.

:wink:

-CG

[Brad]

[You won't find very many top American shooters who think much of the little "marketing troll", he thrives on the untrained bowhunter/3-D archer market.

I agree about the marketing bit. He's a bit over the top.

What about the techniques he employs are they **** too?? What type of stuff do the other coaches in the states and Canada do??

Brad

[Randall Wellings]

clever_guy...

Have to disagree with you in sorts, :wink:

but..one must understand that which Bernie teaches is pretty much that which is accepted by the best coaches in the USA...cause he has sourced everything from them.

The articles Bernie publishes are the same articles He has sort from the likes of Len Cardinally, Larry Wise, Ed Ellison (not sure of the spelling) etc.

So when it's all said and done...it isn't too bad.

Someone taking the time to collate and produce a book full of amazing info should be commended.
I have attended the NFAA Master Coaches course and had a most marvelous week with Larry Wise and the others.

cheers

[2Dogs]

one must understand that which Bernie teaches is pretty much that which is accepted by the best coaches in the USA

I get the impression that he's a twit.....and a fortune hunter.

He's the Guy who took out Legal action action the owners of AIN because people critisised his methods. God his skin must be thinner then yours Randall.................which means his guts must fall out on the floor :rofl:

[Randall Wellings]

I get the impression that he's a twit.....and a fortune hunter.
in that case...he would be normal..especially around your lot and as for fortune hunting...not in this game :roll: :roll:

truly, he's not the normal 'Aussie' cup of tea...but he is very American :wink:

Personality aside..his book is very good IMO...but then i'm pretty thin skinned..."apparently??" :o

Cheers

[Shermo]

I've met Bernie Pellerite and he is a pretty good bloke, really friendly and only too willing to offer any advice to someone with a problem. :D

When I met him he was helping Laurie Watson (womens 3d pro for hoyt) with shot execution after the first round of the 2000 NABH Nationals. She didn't use one of his products either. Although I did hear him preaching how his products work to a few people. :lol:

A bit of the subject, the most informative person that I spoke to about archery form/techniques was when I shot the pratice round at Nebraska with Michael Braden (seasoned hoyt pro). This guy had rock solid form, very consistent shooting routine and could judge distance to within 6 inches nearly every target. :o

[Ozzy]

Some pretty harsh comments being expounded re poor Bernie :-?
Is he really any more obviously promoting his wares than other yanks in a similar position? :o
I still find the book extremely thorough & it could certainly help many compounders. :)
Most of the book makes considerable sense, no matter the source :wink: :roll:

[clever_guy]

"Some pretty harsh comments being expounded re poor Bernie"

That's because he is a tool...

:roll:

"one must understand that which Bernie teaches is pretty much that which is accepted by the best coaches in the USA...cause he has sourced everything from them."

Yeah, the really basic parts. The problem is that he teaches a slant that leads to more problems, it isn't in depth, and it isn't comprehensive, and it really doesn't provide any information to take you far. The only reason it is popular is that it is one of the only books out there for compound instruction.

"Idiot Archery" pretty much explains it, if you are anything but the most basic novice you will read the book and say "that was pretty obvious". I will save you the read, shorten your drawlength, blank bale for a few years, you aren't the right "type" to excell at archery, you have TP - and buy some Bernie crap...

;)

"Is he really any more obviously promoting his wares than other yanks in a similar position?"

There are sooo many great knowledgeable coaches out there, I feel sorry for those who are forced to use Bernie as a comparision. If they spend a week with Frank Pearson, or even a qualified local coach, they would have a completely different slant.

-CG

[2Dogs]

"Idiot Archery" pretty much explains it

Well that must explain why Ozzy likes him :rofl: ....hehehe.

[Marcus]

That's because he is a tool...
don't hold back CG, tell us what you really think. :rofl:

I will save you the read, shorten your drawlength, blank bale for a few years, you aren't the right "type" to excell at archery, you have TP
I've heard this solution from many of his followers. They often have **** form and don't even believe that form is important, it's all about blank bailing and learning to hold still. The concept that you can find a better shoulder positon and that will help you hold they just don't believe.

[Ozzy]

"Idiot Archery" pretty much explains it

Well that must explain why Ozzy likes him :rofl: ....hehehe.

Hey Paul :fist:
Somehow, someday, sometime, - revenge will be sweet :wink:

We must ask ourselves -
"Is Bernie doing any harm to archery?"
:o
No ?
"Is he helping some?"

[Randall Wellings]

I've heard this solution from many of his followers.

humour us Marcus...of whom do you speak?? :o :o

The concept that you can find a better shoulder positon and that will help you hold they just don't believe.

another fabrication in your mind...I have been to his school endorsed by the NFAA and I can assure you...first hand...not second or third hand...but first hand, that he does in fact preaches every bit of correct shoulder alignment...struth..the bloody diagrams he uses in these schools are straight out of Archery Anatomy.


Clever-guy

Blank bale..yes, to firmly entrench into the subconscience mind, the correct execution of the shot and the resultant followthrough.But don't all coaches teach that very same thing :o
personal types...yeh, but it makes for interesting debate, he doeas have some interesting statistics to back up his statements and the T.P. thing
well, again..you don't have to agree with everything...but by the same token..you can't totally disagree either :wink:

cheers

[clever_guy]

"don't hold back CG, tell us what you really think"

I just want to see if I can get him to threaten to sue you, maybe one of his little "idiot" minions will report this to him..

;)

"Blank bale..But don't all coaches teach that very same thing"

As a component not a placebo. Shoot with you eyes closed for 2 years in a row if you want - you won't be Dave Cousins or Clint Freeman.

"have been to his school endorsed by the NFAA and I can assure you"

Pfffttt..he bought the concession, its meaningless, even the NFAA pros don't endorse him...

"interesting statistics to back up his statements and the T.P. thing"

Lots of crap, just like everything else he is trying to *sell*. The same foolish people that can be talked into personality "typing" are those that can be convinced by BP's spew..

""Is Bernie doing any harm to archery?" No ? "Is he helping some?""

Yeah...lets surgically remove everyones appendix, because it might help a few...

BEwArE oF tRoLLs iN CoAchEs cLotHinG

;)

-CG

-CG

[2Dogs]

:rofl: ........funny ****


Bring it on Ozzy :lol: :lol: ........be nice but!....or I'll send Clare around with her Longbow.

Hangon that's not much of a threat :lol: ....she just end up talking you to death over a glass of white :lol:

[Brad]

So has anyone tried his '21 day' reprograming exercise???

Brad

[Clare Barnes]

:rofl: ........funny sh*t


Bring it on Ozzy :lol: :lol: ........be nice but!....or I'll send Clare around with her Longbow.

Hangon that's not much of a threat :lol: ....she just end up talking you to death over a glass of white :lol:

Geez, I am beginning to feel got at! :( :oops:

Longbows and clout ..... nice to know they both feature highly in the minds of so many compound archers! :fist: :roll:

Unwooded chardonnay did you say? :D

[2Dogs]

So has anyone tried his '21 day' reprograming exercise???

What does that involve???......a hesion bag and a lump of 4x2 :D

[clever_guy]

"So has anyone tried his '21 day' reprograming exercise???"

BP's *Master Plan* a new Idiot every 21 days...

;)

-CG

[Ozzy]

:rofl: ........funny sh*t
Bring it on Ozzy :lol: :lol: ........be nice but!....or I'll send Clare around with her Longbow.


"but" ?
Hey Clare, there he goes with that bloody QLD "BUT" again.
I'm surprised they even know what "chardy" is up there :wink:
Can't see past anything that isn't wrapped in a brown paper bag, in a stubby holder, or has xxxx on the label. :-?

LOL to ya Paul :lol:

[Clare Barnes]

"but" ?
Hey Clare, there he goes with that bloody QLD "BUT" again.

I looked for spelling errors in 2Dogs post Ozzy, but there were none for me to correct! :lol: I should have been picky about the "hangon" I guess. :-?

Lousy grammar or the wrong word does come under my portfolio! 8) :wink:

[SteveFSA]

I went to Bernies 2 day school when I was starting out and as a beginer he did help me. As I've progressed I can see some of the problems in his teaching methods. For one he harps on form flaws and negative aspects of shooting instead of preaching the positive. For instance he has his list of 51 (maybe it's 97 :roll: who knows...) form flaws. My feeling is just show archers the correct way of doing things and they will never have these bad habits. Don't reinforce negative stuff.

Another thing you will find is he keeps talking about target panic, reinforcing this over and over. After listening to him enough you might end up with it! My feeling is with correct form, and a positive attitude this will never be a problem.

Also if you talk to people in the industry, you will find he has a long list of people he as sued or threatened with legal action. This is one reason why so many have negative things to say about him.

On the other hand he is out there traveling and teaching archery so I give him credit for this anyway.

On the ballance has he helped the sport more than hurt it? I think so.

-- Steve

[clever_guy]

"As I've progressed I can see some of the problems in his teaching methods...Also if you talk to people in the industry, you will find he has a long list of people he as sued or threatened with legal action. This is one reason why so many have negative things to say about him."

So then you agree, he is a useless marketing troll tool..

;)

"On the other hand he is out there traveling and teaching archery so I give him credit for this anyway."

If he is a useless marketing troll tool, then why give him any credit? This isn't the forum where 100 bible thumping rednecks popup and say "...likes my mamma tolds me whens I's was a youngin, don't says nuthin if'in you don't has anything reel nice to say..". Feel free to employ critical thought and take a position...and call a useless marketing troll tool, a useless marketing troll tool. What are you also go on to applaud "Jenny Craig" for "helping" make women thin out of the kindness of "her" heart?

:roll: :lol: :lol:

Save the applause for the coaches that deserve it, and revel in sticking the shaft into those don't, especially if they are out to mass market themselves as good coaches..

;)

-CG

[James Park]

I think it is extremely important to always take a positive approach - reinforce all the positives.
Very poor approach to talk about negatives and things you can do wrong. I ask those I coach to make sure I take that approach and to remind me if I step away from it.
Most of the top archers I know are very positive, "I can do it", people.
Even for nasty problems like punching it is very easy to take a positive approach to fixing them (and must faster and more effective than taking a negative approach).

[Eberbachl]

I don't know much about Bernie or his program, but I do know one person that tried his...

[quote]So has anyone tried his '21 day' reprograming exercise[/qoute]

....he ended up a quivering mess and gave up archery.

Mind you, despite his form being quite poor - and he was convinced the answer to all his problems was to follow this magical 21 day reprogramming excercise after reading one of Bernie's articles in Archery Action.

I agree about not having too much talk about TP. Some people talk themselves into suffering from it I think.

[Eberbachl]

I don't know much about Bernie or his program, but I do know one person that tried his...

So has anyone tried his '21 day' reprograming exercise

....he ended up a quivering mess and gave up archery.

Mind you, despite his form being quite poor - and he was convinced the answer to all his problems was to follow this magical 21 day reprogramming excercise after reading one of Bernie's articles in Archery Action.

I agree about not having too much talk about TP. Some people talk themselves into suffering from it I think.

[Eberbachl]

****, did it again, hit quote instead of Edit. :oops:

Marcus can I edit my posts here please :bday:

[clever_guy]

"Mind you, despite his form being quite poor - and he was convinced the answer to all his problems was to follow this magical 21 day reprogramming excercise after reading one of Bernie's articles in Archery Action...I agree about not having too much talk about TP. Some people talk themselves into suffering from it I think."

Well that's what makes focusing on TP such an effective ploy. Performance Anxiety (TP) is a valid issue, there is no doubt that a percentage of archers suffer from it. However, I would wager that 80% (probably higher) of those that BP identifies as having TP actually do not - what they do have is an inability to hold staedily on the gold - which is a problem that every novice to intermediate archer has. Blind Shooting will help you gain control over execution, but it won't help you aim. But if I can convince you that you have TP, because you can't hold steady, then I have gained your trust, and I am now the "guru", so you will believe me when I sell you more crap - works great considering that probably 80% of the archers in the USA have never had formal instruction - so they will believe anything withot a frame of reference. The more archers who do the seminar, the more valid the advice seems, and pow! precieved credibility.

It's just like Jenny Craig/Weight Watchers, I can play on a woman's negative self-image I can convince her she is "fat" and sell her no end of overly expensive crap to eat. If she starts to complain, I tell her to look at the millions I have "helped". Have I helped her become anymore fit? Naw, but who cares it's all about marketing..

:roll: :lol: :lol:

Now here is the real game...find a top NFAA pro that actually supports BP...

:lol: :lol:

-CG

[MerlinApexDylan]

I agree about not having too much talk about TP. Some people talk themselves into suffering from it I think.

I am cornholio, do you have some TP for my bunghole? :P :lol: :roll:

[Eberbachl]

I agree about not having too much talk about TP. Some people talk themselves into suffering from it I think.

I am cornholio, do you have some TP for my bunghole? :P :lol: :roll:

eh? :-?

[robbo]

[I am cornholio, do you have some TP for my bunghole? :P :lol: :roll:

:rofl:

[MerlinApexDylan]

I agree about not having too much talk about TP. Some people talk themselves into suffering from it I think.

I am cornholio, do you have some TP for my bunghole? :P :lol: :roll:

eh? :-?

Beavis and Butthead, Eh.

[Marcus]

My people we have but one bunghole!! :lol:

Do not make my bunghole angry!

[mike]

:rofl:

[Eberbachl]

I really don't want to see your angry bunghole Marcus :rofl:

[Marcus]

My bunghole it goes AAARRAARRGGGGHHHHHHHGHHHGHGHBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBPTPTPT

and then it goes

BBBRRRRRGGBBRTRTRTRBRBRTRTRTRRRATARATARATARATA

[Eberbachl]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

....that comes under the heading "Too much information"

:D

[CMB50]

My bunghole it goes AAARRAARRGGGGHHHHHHHGHHHGHGHBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBPTPTPT

and then it goes

BBBRRRRRGGBBRTRTRTRBRBRTRTRTRRRATARATARATARATA



:rofl: :rofl:

[robbo]

:o :o

[MerlinApexDylan]

Excuse me, do you have some Crappacino, orrrrr, TP for my bunghole!. Brrrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaahhhh, I am the great Cornholio. :D