2004 EUG's

[Flehrad]

From prelim information I have just received, it appears that Archery will once again not be included in the EUG's.
The 2004 EUG host will be Wollongong, and start in July.
If we receive official confirmation that it is not being hosted by UOW, then Usyd will make a bid to host them officially this time.
However depending on how things go, we may still hold it at Usyd campus' because of hosting rights and weather conditions are certainly more favourable than at homebush even in the worst conditions.
But it is still early.
Will keep people posted :wink:

[compound boy]

i'm not surprised...... but would prefer you guys move it to SIAP instead, at least ANSW will see uni archery come round once a year.

[Aarleks]

I'm with compound boy on this one Don. Eventhough it would be nice, and honorable, to host an EUC, it is, as you demonstrated this year, logistically very difficult for us. I think that asking ArcheryNSW to host it at SOAC is good for many reasons, ease, cost, etc. Probably the best reason is that it puts University archery into the oficial archery loop.

I do admit that not having it held on a Uni campus troubles me, mainly for the lack of spirit and homeground advantage. I distinctly remember feeling like a foreigner at Newcastle last year; feeling the narrowed eyes of the home team on us, and the added presure to perform not just for yourself but for your Uni - all great stuff for developing a spirit of competition. Actually now I think more about it the more I want it at St Paul's. :roll: :D. Let's ask Tony and Michael and see what we can organise. 8)

[frommy]

Hello, UWS calling other Uni's.

Camden & District Archery Club are established with a target course, to full FITA dimensions, on the UWS Campbelltown grounds. Both Aarleks and Flehrad have visited and can vouch for that.

If you guys want to get serious about this, we might be able to provide you with an alternative venue. And it would be cheaper than Homebush.

Lets talk about it.

Brian Fromholtz
Secretary
Camden & District Archery Ckub

[Flehrad]

We're quite open for discussions, but we will have to first see if our sports union replies in relation to if Archery has had any bids from anyone else.

[Flehrad]

A slight update on 2004 EUC's
Sydney University Sport have made an official bid to host Archery in the 2004 EUC's
Their proposed date would be during the 2004 May Day weekend (even I don't know when that is...) and the Venue would be St Pauls Oval.

St Pauls Oval is plenty large to hold a Mens and Ladies FITA event, being a convenstional football field in size (100mx80m I think? plus space ingoal and beyond, Jim Larven has sighted the field and OK'd it for FITA events) which means we can comfortably hold around 10 lanes probably.

Unfortunately, we were not consulted with either date or location before the bid was placed with AUS people.
If the bid is successful, we will attempt to register the event on the ANSW calander for 2004, and therefore make all scores official for ANSW/AA members in their personal profiles.

As for the round to be shot, it has been suggested a FITA Star event, however depending on costs for hiring judges etc we will have to wait and see.

And YES, I know it is only $10-$15 to use Homebush with all their timing equipment etc, but we would still have to hire a judge etc.
However, I believe at least on St Pauls Oval everyone stands a decent chance of scoring decent rounds without the turbulant weather Homebush delivers inconsistantly regularly.

More updates as they come

[recurve boy]

Whats May Day?

[Aarleks]

Don, AUS-E rules state that an Archery EUC must be a Geelong. :x

1.0.1 The Archery Society of New South Wales (ASNSW) Geelong round is to be shot and this round is compulsory for all AUS-East archery championships.

Maybe we should lobby to have the rules changed? Also change that ridiculous Team rule. Maybe have Geelong for Novices, something else for Open (FITA FITA FITA! :D :D )

The first I heard of these plans was when I received that email yesterday.

Marc, May Day is May 1. Was once a holiday in some areas to celebrate the coming of spring (Northern Hemispere). Lots of Pagan/Heathen stuff and Pagan/Heathen-dressed-up-as-Christian stuff going on (eg dancing round the May Pole :D [still being practiced as a community event in Luera when I lived there in the late 80s and ealry 90s]). Has recently been apropriated by various centre, left, and environmental movements to project currents of change and revolution (the appropriation includes the free interchange of those terms). /academic blurt :wink:

[robbo]

I can remember having to dance around a May Pole when I was about 11, at a school function. :oops:

[compound boy]

i still think, homebush SIAP... Where is the St. Paul oval anyway?

[Aarleks]

St Paul's is at Sydney Uni John. Great location too. Will shortly be our training field. :D Lots of big trees, big pretty buildings, and stone wall at the far end to destroy arrows on (don't worry, it's about 150-170m from the shooting line). SIAP would be easier but I now prefer having it hosted on a Uni campus.

[compound boy]

hmmm, ok sounds good, i'll take your word for it alex... with the matter of shoot fees, i know SIAP will take us for $15........then we only need 2 judges and 1 DOS...... what's the cost of that?

the way i see it, no more than $20 for a uni archery event.

[frommy]

Alex,

A Geelong? You are joking. :cry:

Congratulations if you can move onto some decent archery turf area. Just think, you only need 165 metres for a mens recurve c lout! :D

Brian

[recurve boy]

Would anyone really know if we didn't shoot a Geelong? I mean, its not like we're going to tell them ...

[Aarleks]

A Geelong? You are joking. :cry:

I know... :roll: :roll: And that's only the beginning with the rules. Lot's of odd stuff in there. The team rule particularly annoys me - top 5 scores from each Uni are added to determine the winner. Sounds fine but it's top 5 across the divisions. So if one team turns up with five half decent compounders (who should hammer the ten in a Geelong) they win. It would take five world class recurvers to beat them. :x
I would like to see that rule at least ammended to stipulate a minimum and maximum of entrants from the various divisions (eg must be 1 novice + minimum 2 recurve + maximum 2 compound). I would also likt to see novice recurve and compound separated. :o

I would at like to get the round changed to at least a Canberra/FITA 900 with FITA Award available, preferably FITA Star. I would also like to see some Matchplay in there somewhere. Will ask the appropriate people and keep the Forum up to date.

My proposal would be:
Novice (shooting for less than 1 year): Geelong
Open: FITA or 70m round

[Flehrad]

Yes, the Team score rule does bite because that is why we have lost the last few years on the fact that Newcastle Uni sported some excellent compound shooters, mainly Trent, John and Alvin, who pretty much cleared the gap between anyone else, and since most of our club shoots recurve (or at least used to) we didn't stand much of a chance.
I do like the idea of having a team score made from different divisions, or perhaps a % handicap such as compound scores are scaled to 85-90% and recurve scores are 100%.

As for the round shot for a EUC event, I believe that it should be the same round for both Novice and Open class shooters.
Novice shooters aren't expected to do very well anyway, so it doesn't make too much of a difference, just to their mental ego. Unless of course you prepare them well before hand that a Novice normally wouldn't even consider trying a FITA.

I think this year, when we tried having the double Geelong then Short Canberra worked really well, and the Novices didn't have much of a problem with that. So if we can perhaps wrangle it, a FITA 900 / Canberra round would be good, though I would love to have it as a FITA event.

I don't know the exact rules for AUS E Archery, but I'm sure Alex will inform us of them as we go along.

Novice Compound & Novice Recurve are lumped together because the Novice classification still holds, regardless of bow, less than 1 year. There are not many Novices who will be shooting a compound bow straight off the mark, and those who do, are probably at the same level as the recurve shooters. The only difference is that they can have more toys to improve their scores with, or degrade their scores with. Usyd Novices all shoot barebow, so compared to UNSW people who have basic sights, we are at a "disadvantage" but that is a opinion, as I am sure many of our barebow shooters can do better than one with sights, thus also with a recurve compared to a compound.

Alex, do you know what the rules are for the status of the competitors? Because I won't be a student for 2004, but would I still be able to shoot? Since if we register it as a ANSW event, I could shoot, but technically my scores won't count towards any official placings and team scores?

[frommy]

Guys,

Jee the rules for the archery seem to need some massive revision.

I would think that a FITA would be questionable, but a variation of the Canberra/FITA 900 rounds, which can be scaled down for less experienced archers, could be a very viable way to go.

I am just amazed that a Geelong got a reference as a serious competition! :roll:

Brian

[Aarleks]

I think you would be able to shoot (that is up to the organisers), but without a student number you cannot place. Same deal for Malcolm and quite possibly Dan by then. :o

I reckon a Canberra might be a good compromise. However, I still think having the open shooters contest a FITA would be much more interesting. :D

[recurve boy]

Jee the rules for the archery seem to need some massive revision.


Tell me about it. UNSW tried to get some of the team rules revised before the last AUS-E games. We were accused of being sore loosers. In reality Trent is a dick and if he even read what we proposed would have realised UNSW still wouldn't have won. In fact in all the possible systems we came up with we would never have won. I think we tried to use the rating system in there somewhere...

BTW John, tell Trent he looks like a cross between Goofy and Mr. Bean.

I know this other guy named Trent. He is also a dick. A friend has a theory that all Trents are dicks.

End of rant. Ahem :D

If you do get the rules changed Alex, I suggest the standard bow concept be introduced for the Novices.

[grantwomack]

I would think that a FITA would be questionable, but a variation of the Canberra/FITA 900 rounds, which can be scaled down for less experienced archers, could be a very viable way to go.

I think a FITA 900 is a very accessible round for even the most beginner archers. We shoot an American round (which is like an imperial FITA 900) at the Roses tournament between York and Lancaster each year and it works fine even for the novices. Scaling it down would lead to indoor-type shoots.

[Aarleks]

Great idea on the Standard bow concept Marc. I will suggest it.

Frommy, yeah it's crazy. I think we need to change the rules to move the sport forward a bit. Geelong is just weird. I don't know who chose it, or when.

[compound boy]

yeah std bow, intermediate and open is used in the singapore uni circles.

just note that std bow, is for the novices, but they are only allowed a wooden beginner bow, a sight, no stab....... not sure if i mentioned this before

think we should all sit down, and change the rules. :)

u forget to mention (1357 capable) Sharon O'Brien....who recently switched to recurve... :D

[StevenB]

There is always going to be probles with the way the teams event will be worked out. You guys are disadvantaged because you don't have as many top shooters as us, where disadvantged because we have a lot less archers total.


the scaling the score idea is pretty good as it still allows smaller clubs with good archers to still be competitive, but how much do we scale by. Use the handicap system maybe.

We could use the fita 900/canberra round for the event so that all levels are catered for then maybe work out a point system for each postion with the longer rounds getting more points for a place than the shorter distances

[compound boy]

we could do matchplay......... no more geelong pls.........shooting 30m at a 122 is against my religion.

at the very least shoot a short canberra.

after the scores are taken, award highest scores as we did before.

then do a separate matchplay.... award matchplay event separately.

they do this at standard bow level at 30m back in the unis in singapore. it does work..........probably the only thing to worry about is sending a good standard of archers in.

[archerybob]

well when you guys get it sorted out give us a bell! as long as it is further than 30 metres i will be there!!!!

[Flehrad]

Well, the Exec's of Usyd Archery have just received a copy of the Bid for the EUC and it's a shocker. IN which we will try and get some things changed if it is allowed.

Currently the bid stands at $38.50 for entry inclusive of two days (I think) and medals/certificates.
Their proposed dates are the 13th April and 14th April (Mon & Tues) which is during the 2004 Nationals, and we don't like that because it is too early in the year for beginners to get any shooting done since Uni starts in March, and we have people who want to go to the Nationals.
And the listed rounds for the two days is the same as the last EUC, a Geelong then a Adelaide, thanks to Trent all those years ago at Erina.....

But, if we can get it changed then we will. However, it states following the rules of AUS Archery, which are not exactly AA rules, they were very slightly modified by Trent ages ago when he got Archery listed for AUS when it changed over from the EAUG's to AUS E.......

Is he even still shooting his compound these days??!?!

[archerybob]

what bright spark did that???? who puts on a shoot while the nationals are on?........A TWIT thats who!!!! what the hecks an adelaide? 20 metres on a big face, it better not be!!

[Aarleks]

I got a call at work yesterday from the Sports Union asking if we wanted the bid put in. I said yes (thinking it was going to be the May long weekend) and when I arrived home it was in my email in the format Don has mentioned. I have requested a date change (it is still only a proposed bid officially) and flaged some possible rule changes.

I'm still swaying between Canberra and FITA for the open divisions. Leaning towards FITA today. :D I just think that in the open division, where a championship is contested (in this case the Eastern Uni Champion title is up for grabs) a FITA should be shot. Quite simply because it is the ultimate test.

[recurve boy]

From our meddling a couple years back, I think Trent actually tried to get a FITA round in but was somehow rejected???

[compound boy]

I maintain, that if Alvin and I hadn't shown up, USYD and UNSW would still be playing with themselves, and content with their "performance". The archery standard would still suck. If I hadn't got into this sport, Recurve Boy may not have even heard of archery.

I don't even know Trent, I've spoken to him a handful of times. But give the guy some slack huh? He set it up ages ago. I wouldn't know how to go about setting up a competition to cater for the novices and intermediates and keep everyone happy, there's always some dip**** who wants to complain. Push for a Canberra all you like, someone may want a short instead.

Guys, I don't like the way it was set up either. But we were all beginners once weren't we? And a couple of years ago our Geelong scores were ****. Everything sucked.

Be thankful, we even competed. Rating system is the go. Good luck with all the changes.

PS: its not our fault Vinny and I were 1250 compound capable at 12 months..........well not 12 months......... yr and a quarter........heehee

[Aarleks]

I have never met Trent but am greatful to him for getting it off the ground within AUS. It was a good beginning, and I don't want what I say and have said to be taken as disrepectful. What I am proposing is that we now move a step or two forward. In my opinion that means more competitions (difficult without infrastructure) and more competitive rounds at competitions (easy). A Geelong is not a challenging round. Sure it's difficult to get fifteen 60s in a row, but does than mean we limit ourselves to that until we can do it? I accept the Geelong as a novice round, although somewhat reluctantly. But that doesn't mean that the open shooters ought to shoot it.

[compound boy]

Alex, your opinion matters alot when it comes to uni archery. I'm sure you're that spike that's going to get things going. Good luck, I'm with you, I'm just too tired to raise my finger for uni clubs these days. I've had it.

[recurve boy]

I wasn't trying to dis Trent with the FITA comment. Like I said, I heard that he tried to get things moving but faced some opposition. I don't understand who makes up the rules? Its not any of the archery organisations... anyway my point is that it might be harder to get things changed than just a few guys wanting to take on some responsibility. I mean, look at you guys, your Sports Union never even asked you for input when making the bid.

BUt maybe I'm just pessimistic because we always seemed to have a lot of opposition when trying to get things changed. Then again we may have gone about it the wrong way. Maybe Trent is like CB and just got fed up with all of it and couldn't be bothered trying to do things anymore. I have no idea ... Good luck, if I can help I haven't lost all hope ... yet ...

John, no its not your fault that you guys proressed so fast. But it wasn't fair to the other beginners either and it certainly does nothing to keep them interested! Itd be sad if it turned into USYD against themselves in the next few years. I think they are the only UniClub with the sheer numbers to keep going.

[recurve boy]

f I hadn't got into this sport, Recurve Boy may not have even heard of archery.
You're right. Thank God I don't listen to you all that much. Else I would have been shooting compound! :o :o

[compound boy]

It is true Trent faced alot of opposition, mostly because of that equal participation thing. Forget EUG, they think more about those damn conventional sports.

And AUG in Newcastle? I prayed for a thunderstorm, it actually came...... Then I prayed all the athletes got seriously injured and left Newcastle with a bad taste in their mouths...... Not sure about that one.

Don and Alex and Marc are the true plank owners of Uni Arc, you guys just do whatever the hell you want......... Anything at all will be an improvement. I'll support you as best I can.

RB, I'm just glad you actually found a sport :wink:

How's this for freaky, I think Alvin posted something like 1230 compound (practice) in bad winds using his POS carbon safaris, the year he was a novice. :o

[frommy]

I am cranky. :agrue: I am bl**dy cranky. :agrue: :agrue:

I have been writing what I thought was an extremely good message of advice to you lot, giving support, and the bl**dy system went haywire. Message lost.

So, noting the time, in brief:

1. your position to argue change should now surely be stronger with USyd now in ASNSW and AA. UNSW have never had a strong club, and the Newcastle people were/are members af other clubs, not a uni club.

2. use that connection to push the Uni Games people

3. use the connection to push ASNSW/AA to assist.

4. The greatest problem with most community clubs is that juniors drop out of the sport in mid teens, because they find the opposite sex more interesting (or most do). Then they might drop back in to archery when the passion cools in the mid to late 20's, but most never come back.

5. Your people represent that age group; you are the link. Surely ASNSW/AA should then appreciate that and give you assistance if even only in setting up a decent program for uni archery comp.

Not as good as my previous, lost, message, but just my .02c worth.

I have also attended the UWS sports presentation night this evening, as we are a community club partner now based on the UWS Macarthur campus, and came away very impressed with the drive of many of the sporting clubs and their achievements.

While we only have one uni student as a member at the moment, and he is from the Catholic Uni :lol: , the situation will be different next year when we can get in at sign-on week. Then maybe some of the experiences of our club might also be able to help you through the UWS lobby power. They are exceptionally proud of their participation in uni games, so we might be able to chip-in support.

Guys, keep up the good work.

Brian Fromholtz
Camden & District Archery Club
in proud association with
UWS Macarthur Sports & Recreation Association

[Flehrad]

Well, I know what it is like to face opposition, especially when it starts in your own club!
I have struggled and fought for change and we eventually got it because many of the club exec's didn't want to go through the rigors of changing club constitutions and everything else for affiliations etc.

But, my only complaint with regards to Trent was that he never kept people informed, but I do thank him for being able to take that step ahead for university level archery.

One issue for many clubs, that I would love to have addressed, but I know is never ever likely going to be considered, let alone undertaken, is to have equipment support for our clubs and younger shooters.
What I mean for that is many clubs shoot with crap equipment. Quite simply because when you try to cater for 187 members (like we have had this year) you go cheap for maximum numbers of bows and arrows. But when things quieten down and you want your regulars to do well, they are still left with crap to shoot with. We have tried over the years to upgrade, and we are able to do so relatively successfully by comparison to perhaps some other clubs as we have some support from our sports union. What I'd like to see is if AA/ANSW would be able to purchase equipment at wholesale prices and sell them on to AA/ANSW clubs without profit or at least minimal profit, or onsell AA equipment from like the AIS or something to clubs at a decent price because most of that stuff would still be heaps higher level compared to the wooden trainee bows and jazz arrows etc.

Brian, we do honestly appreciate your input and offer to use the range you have, however, things have been out of our hands so far, but Alex and I had a thought, and we would like to potentially use this for the EUC's 2004.
If we are permitted to extend to a 3rd day, perhaps if the field course at UWS finished, we could do a Field course / Clout shoot for something different. Transport could be easily arranged via car pooling or minibus hire if we had a capable driver and financial aid from our sports union, and it would be a great way to finish of the event.
However, it is just a thought, and until we pass this through our people, that will be all that it remains to be. :(

I agree that we need more competitions, and to that effect, we have this year opened with our Novices competition, then our Uni competitions as replacement for EUC, and then our flunked Indoor competition (because Energy Australia decided to dig up our field!), and we will be holding our own club championship compeition in two weeks.

A idea I toyed with earlier that was shuffled aside amongst affiliation woes was a inter-uni regular, so once a month or once a term, we have a competition shoot, and a cumulative score of sorts is kept until the end of the year where a simple plaque type trophy is won. It is a system that rifle clubs use, and they have 7 events a year with a running total of each club's best 5 scores. We could easily use that to raise the number of competitions, and of course it would have to be a challange type of event, like a womens' FITA at least or matchplay.

But we'll see

[recurve boy]

Regarding equipment: Simple, don't try to cater for all your members. I simply have various levels of equipment that I selectively hand out to shooters. Most of your members will never stick with the sport enough to really need anything past a wooden bow. No, I don't mean "we", clud equipment is my equipment :D

I am actually not that worried with regards to getting tournements organized. I think we need to get ourselves organised first. I dunno, some sort of uni committee? I hate to add more bureaucracy, but once we get ourselves organised getting the comps organized is easy. Brian said he was willing to help, I know we can have comps down here at Coogee (I have seen old EUG photos that were held there), its easy to do it at SIAP, USYD has grounds.

There's the City of Sydney Dec 7th. If I could get a "UNSW comp" held on the same day - just an excuse to let our non-ANSW guys shoot - would you guys come? I'll snoop around while you think.

[frommy]

Don,

I have always had a problem with your concept of getting all these people into archery (187) then providing equipment for them. And now you seek to upgrade equipment past the wooden take-down recurve and Jazz shafts for them. :-? Get real mate. :o

I know you play the numbers game for funding against other sports, but you are doing so at the expence of any potential serious archers coming through from these ranks IMO. You need to devote so much time to the masses that you could not encourage any potentially serious tyro coming through.

It is not the level of your equipment that is holding people back. I agree with RB about gear. It is your club structure and philosophy that is the major problem.

WhyTF would you want to get reasonable gear for drifters, which seems to be the vast majority of your members? :-?

All our club training bows are wooden take-down recurves. Most of our shafts are Jazz or lesser alli's. That is all that is needed for introduction. After introduction the archer will not in any way advance until they get their own gear. You, Alex and others are examples of this.

But you people want to try to supply club resources to keep the numbers game up for the uni funding stakes! :roll:

IMO you should p*ss off the hangers on and concentrate on getting some of the more interested people to advance to the next level. You would surely get greater recognition from the uni if you can get say 10/15 competitive archers on the line in competition, rather than just 150 or so hangers on going nowhere.

Just my .02c worth.

Brian

[Shirt]

Totally agree with Frommy.

If you can provide decent gear for those with talent, do. (If your Uni club is anything like mine, you simply can't afford to) Otherwise, just make the point that they will only improve if they spend money, and that you aren't going to waste your time doing higher level coaching when they're just playing with wood-risers and Rolans.

JMHO

[Flehrad]

Surface wise, it might seem that I'm working on the wrong philosophy and playing only for the numbers game, however that isn't it completely.
If you know how things have been with our equipment issues, it has also been for economic reasons.
Our collection of wooden takedowns are very old, and in the last few years, we have lost quite a large number of them in simple breakages just from age and usage. If we can get them replaced with something of a better quality, they will last longer, a concept that I believe.

I know that we will never be able to cater for such a large mass of them, but if you know anything about university clubs, there are no such things as hanger on's, because by the time the middle of the year clocks around, the only people who still turn up are those who truely enjoy and want to shoot more seriously about it. And we don't even have any good recurves for those people at all!

This year has been sort of the starting point where we are shifting our financial spending to bows, because thanks to Brian, we have some targets that will allow us to shift the majority of spending on targets (previously strammit) to getting better beginner competition level equipment to improve our armoury.

Yes, in similar fashion to what RB has said, we do only give our good stuff to those with talent, however, our good stuff used to be exactly the same as our crap stuff! A wooden takedown, and maybe a new set of Jazz if we have it spare...... a old stabilizer and maybe a plastic sight too...... No clicker, no plunger button, no flipper rest, and the arrows wouldn't be the right spine or length for that matter either.

We are changing our numbers game in funding for results from our AA/ANSW members because we have now 6 affiliates, who hopefully might be all completely competing by the end of the year after exams, hopefully at the City of Sydney event (I know I will hopefully).

If UNSW would like to get something arranged so non AA?ANSW people can shoot, that would be fantastic too.

If a Uni Committee of sorts needs to be set up and arranged, then let there be so, some more red tape won't make too much difference with all that there is, and I'd be willing to help with my 2 cents too.

Don

[Flehrad]

Sydney University Hosts 2004 EUC
Yeap, it's official. We are hosting the event on the 5th and 6th of July 2004 at St Pauls Oval, University of Sydney Camperdown Campus.

Sorry to those who wanted Homebush, but we hope that we can get a excellent event up and running for you all.

We will release the event timetable as soon as we work it out etc.
Thank you for your attention 8)

Don Chiou
SUAC

[frommy]

Don,

I have been talking to my club member from Catholic Uni who has just started archery 2 months ago (recurve, but we have got him good gear). He sounds interested in joining into this. :o

I appreciate that this is an unofficial EUG, but would there be any problem with him entering if he wants to? :-?

Also, I seem to remember the proposed rounds to be shot were posted somewhere, and my bloke would have to go into the tyro group, but I cannot seem to locate the rounds. :oops:

Can you please re-post the present proposal so I can show it to my club member?

Thanks

Brian

[Flehrad]

Brian,

It's a Official Australian University Sport event for 2004.
It was a unofficial event in 2003, but we have been given the green light for official hosting with support and insurance etc.

There are some issues with entries regarding prizes and placings and medals.
Anyone who is either a Australian University student or a Archery Australia member can enter to shoot.
However, only (apparently, we are looking into it) those students who are enrolled at a Eastern Australia University (QLD/NSW/VIC???? not sure about their definitions either) are eligable for places, prizes and medals. Everyone else will be shooting for fun.

The dates would be the 5th and 6th of July
The rounds proposed are
5th - Mens/Ladies FITA or FITA equivlent (max 1440 score with 4 distances evet) for Novice divisions.
6th - FITA900/Canberra

Don

[Becky L]

I was just wondering with regars to Uni games in 2004 how entries etc will happen? Whos the organising force? Theres gotta be a way to let all Eastern universities know...Im up at UNE and would definitely come back to Sydney to shoot in the games.

[recurve boy]

Whoever gets hosting rights organizes i believe. So in our case the USyd sports association. I'm not sure how much involvment clubs have.

All the unis are told. But you'll ususally only hear about it if you are in a uni club. At the moment there are only 3 unis with clubs. I have a feeling that there are only three unis in the whole of australia with clubs since we don't meet the 5 uni requirement to be considered for the AUGs. Which really sucks.

So, talk to your sports association and tell them you'd like to be notified of the event.

[frommy]

I was just wondering with regars to Uni games in 2004 how entries etc will happen? Whos the organising force? Theres gotta be a way to let all Eastern universities know...Im up at UNE and would definitely come back to Sydney to shoot in the games.

Rebecca,

Stay tuned to this forum is the best idea. :)

I can't see UNE getting an archery club up. :cry:

Don who is the third Uni? :-? Are you counting us with our UWS ties?

[Flehrad]

The three Uni clubs that we know of are
University of Sydney
University of New South Wales
University of Newcastle.

Sydney by far has the largest membership base on paper, and close to probably the largest active numbers.
Then New South Wales, and Newcastle as far as I am lead to believe.

However, UNSW people have it tough because most of their training is indoors at a horrendous expense.

As for Universities getting Notification.
There will be two methods of nofitication for the 2004 EUC event.
One is the official circular, that will be distributed by AUS people. However, the problem is that only the Universities catagorized as a Eastern Australia University will be given these circulars. I don't even know which uni's they include. Armidale might not be counted as one, thus not receive the information.
That is the reason why method two is also happening.
As with the event this year, we posted information packs to multiple universities, including those interstate, asking them to be advertised on noticeboards and newsletters etc. We can easily to this for next year as well, as long as we have appropriate mailing addresses to those people interested at the universities.

The organising force is actually the club. The Sport Union represents for us as a go-between to the other universities and AUS, however the large bulk is entirely up to the club. The union will assist as well because they want to have a successful hosted event.
Essentially, hiring targets, organising judges, prizes, volunteers, scorers etc is all done by the club. Entries are sent to the club, and we record them, but the money is passed onto the union who looks after it all (after of course pocketing their share....)

Alex (Aarleks) and myself probably will be ending up with the bulk of the organisation and other happenings for the event, so if problems do come up, or questions, then we'll be the ones who will work to solve them.

Don
SUAC

[frommy]

I was not aware that Newcastle Uni had a club. :-?

They certainly do not have a club within ASNSW, and Steven Butcher is a member of Westlakes Archers. :o

Brian

[frommy]

Don,

A further thought, and I am sure that it may have already occured to you and Alex. :o

Target the Archery clubs directly. It is only because I waste my time on AF that I could pass on info to my club member from the Catholic Uni. And it is only through AF that Rebecca from UNE responded.

So what value is it going to the Uni's if the info is not getting out?

There are some serious archers at Wollongong Uni who are members of Illawarra. Do they know about this event? :-?

Robbo has a son at UWS Penrith who is into archery. Does he know about the event? :-?

With respect, I would suggest that you should not rely on the Uni sports communication, which might miss those students who may be eligible to compete, and circulate directly to clubs. And don't rely on ASNSW to do it for you. Do it direct.

Hope this might be of some assistance.

Brian

[Flehrad]

I've already figured that one out from experience.
However, the difference that altering the universities can make is that those who are archers at universities, then can shoot and represent the university. And it also helps coverage because people who look at the circulars will see archery as a sport, and might get interested, visit a local club, ask about if a uni club exists, perhaps even start one up with enough members and support.

Anything to get the word that archery exists as a university sport is good. And in the long run, it will benefit everybody.

I've PM Robbo, and he's informed his son.

I have some contact details for some people at UoW as well.

We will be sending information to as many sources as we can.

[frommy]

I've already figured that one out from experience.
However, the difference that altering the universities can make is that those who are archers at universities, then can shoot and represent the university. And it also helps coverage because people who look at the circulars will see archery as a sport, and might get interested, visit a local club, ask about if a uni club exists, perhaps even start one up with enough members and support.

Anything to get the word that archery exists as a university sport is good. And in the long run, it will benefit everybody.

I've PM Robbo, and he's informed his son.

I have some contact details for some people at UoW as well.

We will be sending information to as many sources as we can.

A further thought, and I am sure that it may have already occured to you and Alex.

Well done mate. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Brian

[recurve boy]

I was not aware that Newcastle Uni had a club. :-?

They certainly do not have a club within ASNSW, and Steven Butcher is a member of Westlakes Archers. :o

Brian

Uni clubs can run independent of ANSW since we can get our own insurance. In fact UNSW still requires that insurance to run beginner courses. ANSW affiliation doesn't really do much for you except allow you to shoot at comps and at other ANSW clubs. And even that can be worked around since the sports associations, at least the UNSW association, can provide insurance.

And not having our own outdoor range isn't as bad as it appears 8)

[Flehrad]

Usyd was also a non AA/ANSW club up until this year. Practically any uni can have a archery club as long as their sports body provides insurance cover. Just to cover their own liabilities. So for all we know, there may be lots of uni clubs that no one knows about.

The problem for clubs to become AA is that they require a structure and membership that complies to both bodies, and enough registered affiliated members, at a high cost compared to running and being a member of a normal non affiliated club.

[frommy]

RB, Don,

I was aware that SinnyUni has had a club for many years, and I certainly agree that others Unis might also have them outside ASNSW. I was just not aware that Newcastle Uni might have had a club! :-?

I also agree that AA/ASNSW fees are a hell of a drain. :x

Don, who are you in contact with at UoW?

Brian

[Flehrad]

His name is Stephen Willmot I think?....
I have it on record at home and he came and shot at our event earlier this year.
I also have a contact at a Victorian Uni, Not sure if it's Melb or Monash or MiT, Mich Lewis I think is their name.

[frommy]

His name is Stephen Willmot I think?....
I have it on record at home and he came and shot at our event earlier this year.
I also have a contact at a Victorian Uni, Not sure if it's Melb or Monash or MiT, Mich Lewis I think is their name.

I thought /hoped it would be Steven Willett (edit - Willott). Great guy and a previous junior NSW champion archer from Bathurst club. I had hoped he had continued in the sport when he went to Woopygong a couple of years ago.

Brian

[Becky L]

UNE does have an archery club, its not registered with ASNSW though but it is a registered club with the uni association.

[Marshie]

UNE are definitely interested. Universities and schools are untapped potential growth for the sport.

ANSW is currently looking at strengthening links in both these areas. The CoM, Junior Co-ordinator and Junior Sub-Committee have been working on this with some long term goals that are being discussed at meetings and as arrangements are firmed up I'm sure those who attend these meetings will hear about it.

Congratulations on getting the approval to run the event. :D The dates are during the school holidays. Count me in as a volunteer, give me a job and I'll be there!

Just in case this point has been missed... a university archer, member of this forum, CoM member at ANSW.... who is keen to take part.... it's a resource that may help build some links, if you tap into her.

Back to UNE, I have names and contact details and I KNOW they want to support and build their archery within their sports' association. If you need the info contact me off the forum. There has already been financial support provided from SportUNE to support Uni archers and their growth into these and other games, at grass roots level. Perhaps they're more knowing and forward thinking than currently they are being given credit for on the Forum.

The push to change the rules and agreeing they need to change, could be submitted from several universities. One uni on their own trying to change these rules will not be as convincing as several unis putting forward similar proposals to change the event.

If you want support from ANSW or AA then put it in writing and maybe something could be done. Do we know how many members of AA and ANSW are Uni students? Would ANSW and AA like all the uni students who shoot to be members? The base is now established and good things can come from it for all interested groups.

Once again, well done!

[Clare Barnes]

His name is Stephen Willmot I think?....
I have it on record at home and he came and shot at our event earlier this year.
I also have a contact at a Victorian Uni, Not sure if it's Melb or Monash or MiT, Mich Lewis I think is their name.

I thought /hoped it would be Steven Willett. Great guy and a previous junior NSW champion archer from Bathurst club. I had hoped he had continued in the sport when he went to Woopygong a couple of years ago.

Brian

I thought the guy from Bathurst who shot Junior Nats events was Stephen WILLOTT ..... :-? :D :D

[Aarleks]

Congratulations on getting the approval to run the event. :D The dates are during the school holidays. Count me in as a volunteer, give me a job and I'll be there!

Lynne you're a star! :D :angel: :angel: Love your work!

Don and I have worked pretty hard this year to build our club up from a straight-forward Uni club to a competitive ArcheryNSW Club. We have a long way to go, and lots to do next year but the foundations for future growth have been laid.

I'm very pleased to hear that the CoM is looking into the Uni scene. The infrastructure and funding available to Uni students is perfect for encouraging exiting juniors to not only stick with the sport but to take their game to new levels.

I'm also extra pleased to hear that UNE has a club. I hope they can send some people to next year's Championships. The more Uni's/Clubs that attend the more funding and support we will get in the future. Please pass on their details (to either Don or I) so we can do all we can to get them down here.

As to the proposed rule changes. We submitted our proposal to SU Sport on the 19th of November. As yet we have heard nothing back, however, as far as I understand the changes have to be passed by the other AUS-E members (Uni Sports Unions/Associations). Unfortunately our sports development officer has gone on holidays (without informing us) and will not be back until January so we are in the dark till then. I think you are spot on about unified proposed change. Will will keep all informed of wht is going on both here and via email.

Thanks for your encouraging words. :D

[frommy]

Lynne, Becky,

This is great to hear of other Uni's with archery clubs, I have no problem as to whether they are affiliated with ASNSW or not, just that the sport is out there.

Of course if they can come on-board with ASNSW, like SinnyUni did this year, and UNSW several years ago, that would also be great.

Lynne, great to hear that the COM are also thinking in this direction as well.

We hope to get some student interest in our club for next year when we will be present for the UWS Campbelltown sign-on day. We missed out last year as we had not at that stage moved to the Campbelltown campus. :(

Good to hear news such as the recent posts for this old-timer. :D

Brian

p.s. And yes Clare, you got me on Steve Willott's name. In my defence I was posting in haste from work just before knock-off time. Jeez. Talk about anal-retentive. :)

[Flehrad]

Clare's right on the name being Stephen and not Steven Willott.
He came down for the event in July, and shot ok. He said he had been experimenting with recurve and hadn't shot much compound recently, and he had a very funky looking stabilizer (one of those alum tubes with drilled holes in it).

Lynne, ditto what Alex said :D
Any and all support is most welcome so thank you very much.

I still have not heard back from Nudie drinks either in relation to my request for support. But all in due time I guess. I don't think that it is very hard to set up any archery club in a university environment, as long as there is one person who is willing to do all of the teaching and paperwork at the start to get it off the ground. Perhaps what needs to be done is that a group of people approach universities with the offer to assist in setting up a club until they are sufficently capable of sustaining themselves and then moving onto another university.

[recurve boy]

Would ANSW and AA like all the uni students who shoot to be members?

Give us a huge discount and help us get proper ranges to shoot on near unis! :D :D