Recurve question

[Kuru]

I have a question for the recurve shooters out there. Why is it that the riser has 2 holes tapped into where the rest and plunger go ?

[James Park]

One reason is so that you can change the relative position of the pressure button and the front node of the arrow.

[Kuru]

Thankyou for that James. A quick search on the net seems that most use the front hole

[noel mac]

one of the holes is directly above the throat of the grip. I don't know the mechanics of it but thats the one i use. (i have seen some people measure there brace height from it) the other hole is there because one day some bright spark will design a simple arrow rest that can be adjusted by a screw and held in place using the second hole. it's interesting to note most arrow rests have the arrow resting nearly 1/2 inch in front of the plunger , does any one know why?

[James Park]

A very good use for the two holes is that two holes means that the arrow rest cannot rotate unexpectedly. If I could use two mounting bolts instead of one I certainly would do so. (However I note with annoyance that on some bows the two mounting holes have different spacings than on some common launchers!!)

[Eberbachl]

I've been using both holes to secure my launcher rest for some time. I have never seen the rest move!:)

I also did use both holes when I was shooting fingers, one screw to hold my cavalier free flyte elite rest in place, and the other hole for the pressure button. The beauty of this was I could remove/tune my pressure button without the rest moving!

[DavidA]

There was an artical a number of years ago pertaining to this subject.
The story goes that when Hoyt was playing around with the first experimental Radiun riser, they had Rick McKinney trying it out. He did not like the original hand grip, so they had him shoot it without a grip. The forward hole was put there to allow the presure button to be moved forward. Rick later had a TD4 grip glued onto the riser, and found he could group better if he used the forward hole. Hoyt left it there, and its become a standard.

[marty]

Putting the button in the different holes will change the tune a bit. The rule that I've heard is to use the foward hole for arrows with lots of overhang, use the rearward hole for shorter arrows.

I use one hole for the plunger, and the other to hold the wrap around rest in place.

[gt]

That's a nice story but it's not quite correct.

The "back" plunger hole was originally tested in GM risers to test a theory regarding rotational moment of that specific riser and also to test the utility of arrow node tuning.

It was found to be useful for bolting trailing arm rests to the riser and has been on all Hoyt bows beginning with the Avalon for that purpose.

Very few archers use the back mount position for the plunger and for most setups it isn't a good idea.

Rick McKinney's Radian had a custom grip module made mostly of Bondo (auto body filler), but the throat of the grip was stock (directly on the riser) and Rick experimented with the Bondo shape for a long time in an effort to find the ideal shape for his style. He shot some very high scores with this riser after he finished playing with the shape.

This grip was accidentally destroyed by a US custom gripmaker who tried to duplicate the shape, and Rick was never able to get the shape quite right after that.

[Marcus]

If the Avalon was the first then why did the Radian have it? That's where I first saw it, quite a few years before the Avalon came out. My dad has a Radian still, I'll ask it to take a photo.

[foo]

This grip was accidentally destroyed by a US custom gripmaker who tried to duplicate the shape, and Rick was never able to get the shape quite right after that.

That reminds me of something I read (perhaps in Archery Focus) along the lines of:
"When travelling, you can check all your gear in as luggage except for your finger tab and grip. Everything else can be purchased if lost/broken except these two items..."

:)

[gt]

Just FYI, you're discussing this with someone who participated in the design process for the Radian, and has the original blueprints in a file cabinet, not to mention several examples of the product within 5 meters of my desk, including the very first and last ones made... :)

The Avalon, and later, the Elan and Axis were produced with two of the mounting holes. When I designed the Aerotec I retained the feature because it works very well for trailing arm rests.

If your dad's Radian has a second plunger hole, it would be because someone drilled and tapped it after the fact (which is structurally fine if the hole is in the same location as the one in later bows).

However, they were never produced that way by Hoyt.

http://margo.student.utwente.nl/~stretch/radian.GIF

[Marcus]

Yeah that's cool, I know who you are. :) It doesn't stop me asking questions and relaying what I recall (which bear in mind is from someone who has had multiple concussions and can be fuzzy at times ;) )
I will double check the Radian and let you know. I know it has not been modified. I also have no problem if I'm found wrong.

So if this Radian has 2 holes, will you post me a copy of the blueprints??

[Eberbachl]

This is becoming a very interesting thread, I'm enjoying reading about bowmaking history very much ...thanks guys :)

gt.......you seem to be keen to try and establish your credibility in this field (which I don't doubt)...but what's the big secret, just come out and tell us who you are? :D:D

P.S: I can't wait to see if David's Radian has two holes or just one!!!???

[foo]

Take a look at the Hoyt ProStaff list and match up the initials.
http://www.hoytusa.com/prostaff/index.html?type=fita

That's if gt is who I think he is and is the same gt that posts on a very popular archery blackboard... :wink:

[gt]

Eberbachl,
LOL, I couldn't care less about "establishing credibility" just providing facts in the face of mild misstatements :-? But you make a fair comment.

Marcus, after my very enjoyable time in Sydney at that little event you put on a couple of years ago, I acquired a taste for Tim-Tams and Crown (not together) and would gladly bet you a sizable quantity of same if you think you can prove me wrong when I tell you the Radian was furnished with a single plunger hole... (Too bad those items aren't available here in the US, especially the Tim-tams.)

And, yes, that would be a correct reference to the Hoyt page mentioned above. I'm in charge of recurve bows at Hoyt and have designed a few items you might be familiar with when I was Easton's senior product engineer.

If you are to look at the little GIF file I posted on a decent monitor you'll easily note the distinct lack of an extra plunger hole.

You can of course take or leave what I say, but I suggest if you want to argue about the reason for or presence of certain product features on things I worked on, you might want to be sure, because as they say, "I vas dere, cholly" and I don't remember seeing any of you in the room as I pushed pencil across paper... :D

All in good fun of course. Except the Tim-Tam part, I'm serious about those...

[Marcus]

So it's a bet then? I get blueprints if correct, you get Tim Tams.
Are you coming to the World Field? If so I'll deliver then, otherwise I'll have to post I guess, if correct. Dunno about sending Crown over mail though.
I did notice the Gif, however the thing is I remember talking to a guy called Ben Weiderman about it. He was a top recurve shooter here and good friend and he died before the Avalon came out. Again I may be getting dates wrong so I'm pointing out to all that I could be wrong, but will investigate.

Now George, IF I send you some Tim Tams you have to take one, bite off both ends and use it as a straw with hot choc or coffee, very nice!! :D

[Marcus]

Oh yeah, BTW here is what I'm snacking on right now. ;)

http://www.archery-forum.com/4sale/20020726164927.jpg

Yum! Full of Chocolate Goodness!

Tell ya what, I'll trade you some UltraTec Blueprints for 10 packets of Tim Tams. :)

[GaryH]

GT wrote: When I designed the Aerotec I retained the feature because it works very well for trailing arm rests.

As one who is about to take possession of an Aerotec (damn shortly I hope :evil: ) what you're say is the the rear plunger hole has been left there for trailing arm rests and the hole closest the front of the riser was the designed position for the plunger.

[Eberbachl]

Thanks George,

Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself. I'm sure alot of the guys here would love to hear about some of your experience.

I for one would like to hear more about Hoyt's TEC design, I've had a Magnatec, AccuTec, and now a CyberTec,(in fact I've still got all three, Magnatec for hunting, CyberTec for 3D, and AccuTec for SALE :)).

Maybe post some info for us under the Archery companies and gear section of the forum....should make interseting and informative reading.

Cheers,

Luke.

[Bruce]

Marcus ,

To truly enjoy the tim tam straw you must try consuming a nice port along with the coffee.


(coffee is optional )


:wink: :D :lol:

[2Dogs]

Yep hook into those Tim Tams & Crown Beer GT and you'll end up looking like Dee Wilde :D ...you know body stabiliser.

I know because I did and I am :o

Luke, GT is all other the Forum boards around the world. He lurks a lot but pops his head up now and then. He tends to know his "****" :lol:

But he's a terrible commentator :lol: :lol: :lol:

[GaryH]

Guys,
Just looked at a photo of the Sydney Olympics, you all know the one of Simon Fairweather arms in the air. If you look close at the riser the plunger is in the rear hole. Is it personal preference??? (or are my drugs not working anymore :-? .

[GaryH]

Don't mind me, I've just uped my dosage of the red and green pills. Hopefully this will offset the intake of the purple and yellow ones. All I really needed was a class in Bow Parts 101, :oops: the back of the bow is the face furthermost from the archer when drawn :roll: :oops:
I will now go and hide 8)

[Maverick]

they name the "tek" risers after you too? j/k

[OldDog]

Hey Paul heard from a reliable source that you cant cook for ****, Now you are the kitchen bitch you might lose a bit of weight. :D :D Btw is there a Maccas in goondi, if so you might actually put a bit more on :o

[2Dogs]

Smart Fart!!

nah nah i'm retired and your not :D