99% Mental? No way.

[Marcus]

You hear alot how sports are 99% mental, or 90% mental etc etc. Yet these are often just opinions from coaches, and mostly US ones. Seems the trend is to blame our mental side, becase that's something the coach can not effect with ease.
But IMHO I believe we they put too much blame on the mental side. Rather let me present this model. Archery is 33% Mental, 33% Form and 33% Equipment.

Why?

Equipment
Despite the claims of some, we are a sport very dependent on gear.Unless it's setup right you will NEVER shoot to the best of your ability. I've heard of Clint shooting some of the most untuned bows and shooting 10's all day, but with his setup I know he is very very presise with his tuning. If it didn't matter, wy would he have hand built his World Championships bow?
Walk down the line at the Nationals and I bet that most in the top 10 make their own strings and tune their own bows, take your bow to a 'Pro Shop' and expect to shoot 1380? No way!
So without excellent knowledge of gear and the ability to get it working 100% right for you you will never reach your potential.

Form
Your gear is right, you are mentally as strong as an Ox, but your form is crap. What will happen? You will not shoot as well as you could. What is the point in being mentally perfect if your shoulder alignment causes shots to hit left at random times? Also when the pressure is on this is one bit that can fail, so even though you mentally are handling it well, minor form faults show up big time in these cases, and those 10's you may have snuck in, become 9's and 8's.
Look at that top 10 again, and the vast percentage have excellent form.

Mental
What is mentally strong? How do you become it?
We say the games is X% mental, but do we know what it is and how to develop it? IMHO the mental side is mostly confidence. Clint is mentally very strong, because he knows when he steps to the plate that he can put every arrow in the 10 ring at any distance. When average shooters step to the plate we think 'gee, I hope I get some 10's this end'.
Now you develop this confidence that you can shoot every arrow into the 10. If I give you a bow that is getting rest contact and is 4 inches too long for you, will you still believe you can do it?
Most likely not (of course you will blame your equipment etc, but fact is at that time you DON'T think you can shoot a 60)
Now what if you have a bow that looks right, but you just can't group with it. Is it you? Is it the bow? is it just in your head? Will visualisation help here?


Form, Gear and mental are all so closely related that one does not dominate the others. Most work on gear more that the other 2 sides, and form can be coached, but mental is often ignored, but then without getting the other 2 right can you get mental right?
This isn't saying to rush out and buy new gear, or to ignore the mental side, rather sometimes what you think is in your head, may not be.



Any thoughts?

[Flame]

Yep have to agree


If you know your gear and form are right this will help the mental side as you are not worrying about them and can concentrate on your shooting. :D

[James Park]

Nice post Marcus.
My experience is that most archers spend most of their time tinkering with gear rather than getting their technique in order, and most do not know much about the mental side of things.
I think that equipment is actually the easiest part to get in order, so what we should do is get it correct (an hour or so will do it), then put the time in to get our technique as it should be. In our practice sessions we can then work on refining our technique and in particular those aspects of it where we lose points. What we need to do here is to "practice" rather than just "shoot".
The mental side is one we do indeed need to practice, but before we can do that we need to understand a bit about it - how do we work mentally when we are competing, and how do we optimise it? My experience is that it does matter quite a bit (and while I would not get too picky about numbers, Marcus' 1/3 for each is ok), and that we cannot learn it well enough just on the practice ground - we need to learn through competing. This is a very good example of where an archer who has never won, or nearly won, a major tournament will probably have no idea at all of the stresses involved and the mental discipline and techniques required. I think this background and experience is also an essential component for anyone attempting to coach at the highest levels as well.

[MerlinApexDylan]

Marcus, I have to agree. An athelete training is looking for a balance of 33.3%mental,33.3%physical,33.3%technical.

However, both the physical and technical aspects are also apart of the mental management.

To know you are physically prepared to shoot long and grueling shoots, in odd weather conditions. It's piece of mind to have a strong cardiovascular, physically strong and endurant body that can handle the conditions in which we shoot. Also the amount of arrows we shoot. Which for a recurver at 44#'s draw is well over 8000# per fita. Walking km's upon km's each fita as well. Eating properly!

On the subconcious level, we train our technique. We train to do the same thing well, over and over and over etc. We learn how to shoot a 10 and then shoot that 10 over and over and over. We train our technique so that during a high level competition it's something we do not have to think about. Thus it also falls under a mental rhelm.

The mental aspects of archery. Getting life in some sort of orderly fashion. Putting aside funding to shoot at high level shoots. Putting aside funding for equipment, putting aside funding to travel. Keeping a job/school/archery in some sort of order as well as physical training and time to have a girlfriend and not go crazy or get burnt out. Going through self talk routines, self analysation after training/shooting, positivity training, Ultimate you self rehearsal, rehearsing yourself in a position like shooting at the olympics, imagining the smells, the weather, your perfect shot time after time.

Without all of these, none of these 3 aspects we train would be possible. They all play very big roles in the training of an athelete that wants to win the olympics and has the talent and tanacity to do it. All three are of themselves and of the other 2.

These are things, my coach trains me with. These are things I also have to learn to do. I dunno if the trick is balancing them, or balancing them and then enlarging them so that you have an advantage over another balanced athelete. :wink:

Time will tell.
Dylan

[mike]

I agree with the 1/3 to each principle too. And agree that we over emphasise equipment out of the three. Overemphasise in that we spend too much time doing useless things like talking about changing bows or cams when in fact a tuned bow is a tuned bow.

I guess when people refer to the 99% claims what they are talking about is the fact that in your hypothetical top 10, it can be assumed they would all have their equipment and form sorted out (not necesarily orthodox form, but a way of shooting that consistently puts them in the middle).

And so for those "Top 10", it is all about the mental side, because that is the primary difference between them, hence claiming it as 90% of the game or something.

[Randall Wellings]

You hear alot how sports are 99% mental, or 90% mental etc etc. Yet these are often just opinions from coaches, and mostly US ones.

Your gear is right, you are mentally as strong as an Ox, but your form is crap. ..hard to imagine...definition of crap may be needed. :lol:

IMHO the mental side is mostly confidence...hmmmm

Marcus.. I think you have actually identified yourself why the coaches....not just the American ones :roll: maintain the %'s...

Yes, it is very true that it is all a confidence game.. therein the 90% reference...from this one can derive that with incorrect equipment, or form and archer will never develop the confidence necessary to compete at the levels of which we speak.

[James Park]

In some respects it is quite difficult/impossible to separate the different aspects. For example, consider using a release device or a clicker.
First, we need the release device or clicker to be adjusted correctly, otherwise it will interfere with our technique and mental processes.
Second, we need to have our technique in order.
Third, we need to have the mental discipline to use the correct technique (rather than, for example, punching the release).
That is: an integrated process rather than three separable parts.
In effect, if we do not have our mental processes in order, the nice smooth operation of the trigger or clicker can be seriously disrupted. For example, how often have you had this all work well for a few ends and then had things start to go horribly wrong as your mind kicks into gear?

[recurve boy]

I would like to know how anybody comes up with these percentages. It cannot be based on time or effort because the majority of the time I am not tinkering with my equipment. I set it up once, and check it regularly to make sure it is in good working order. It certainly doesn't take up a third of my time or effort. I think most people do that. Trying to figure out these percentages is a waste of time.

[baldmountain]

It's easy to see why the percentages are given as 90% mental, 9% form and 1% equipment. No one likes to work on the mental part of their game because it's no fun at all. It requires a lot of thought and hard introspection and in many casses we need to resolve issues with ourselves that we'd prefer not to deal with.

I'd say that most people spend 90% of their practice time tuning their equipment, (because it is FUN!), 9% on their form and 1% on their mental game. Marcus maybe be correct about a third for each discipline but most people believe that if they just fix the tune on their bow a little more, or buy some new gadget, that they will magically shoot better scores. Not only do they have the wrong focus but they are reinforcing a bad mental attitude. When they fail they figure the bow is still off and reinforce the negative mental attitude that they still haven't gotten the bow right even more. It can't possibly be them. It's a bad cycle.

[Harald]

Must say I find it very motivating to be able to catch what others are doing, sharing jokes and get receive advices through this forum.
Consider it as being over 50 % of mental preparation.

Lanny Bassham speaks about tha quadrant advantace:
Fit - equipment thats suitable
Mind set - mental game
Form - ya own stiff body
Information - probably AF one of the best sources in the world. 8)

Further the relation between conscious, subconscious and self image
which he calls the triad state should be kinda balanced.

His stuff is interesting reading but a bit expensive I think :roll:

[Marcus]

I would like to know how anybody comes up with these percentages. It cannot be based on time or effort because the majority of the time I am not tinkering with my equipment. I set it up once, and check it regularly to make sure it is in good working order. It certainly doesn't take up a third of my time or effort. I think most people do that. Trying to figure out these percentages is a waste of time.

The percentages are based on indictive numbers. It's certainly not exact. My view on this is that all are as important as each other. Some may take more time, or be more difficult for some to master, but essentually unless all 3 are working well, you will not shoot to your potential.

It's funny baldmountain, but I know plenty of people who work on other aspects completely. my wife Erika for example spends more time of form than the other 2, she is also mentally very good (does not get rattled in matchplay or big comps), but she does not touch her gear at all. She knows how, but takes the blame for all her bad shots. She may be right, but it is a weak part of her game where she gets me to look after her gear (actually I insist she changes because something isn't working, and she grumbles about it)
Part of this mentallity comes from her recurve days where equipment is not as complex.

There may be a 4th area, as mentioned before that would be fitness.

[baldmountain]

It's funny baldmountain, but I know plenty of people who work on other aspects completely. my wife Erika for example spends more time of form than the other 2, she is also mentally very good (does not get rattled in matchplay or big comps), but she does not touch her gear at all. She knows how, but takes the blame for all her bad shots. She may be right, but it is a weak part of her game where she gets me to look after her gear (actually I insist she changes because something isn't working, and she grumbles about it)
Part of this mentallity comes from her recurve days where equipment is not as complex.


That's why you wife is able to shoot in big competitions. She puts more effort in to the other aspects of her game. With you handling the equipment, she can put all her energy into her form and mental game. I bet she'd be even better if she put more effort into her mental game.

The rest of us who spend all our time working on our equipment get eliminated right away. :o

There may be a 4th area, as mentioned before that would be fitness.

I'll agree with that.

[Fozzie Bear]

Hi all, but sorry I will have to disagree with the break up of the percentages of what is important.
The way to look at this topic I beleive is what stage of your archery development are you at.
A beginner does very little mental work and spend the vast amount of their practise time developing the skills, form and then release and lastly aiming.
As their skill level increases, they should then be adjusting their practise routine to a maintenance programme for their skills and working on the edge that will enable them to perform when needed.
All the top twenty archers at this years world target championships would have the same skill level, just look at their scores for the ranking rounds. The difference is the mental approach they had when they were confronted with a stressful situation. (If a don't hit the middle I can be nocked out.) Tahts what makes a champion archer.

[pmulholland]

I agree with Jim, and others, in that all aspects are part of an integrated process, and the comments by Fozzie Bear are also true, that the degree to which aspect more emphasis should be placed on will change according to experience and skills level.

At top level though, mental toughness is defintely a big player.

Being fortunate enough to be in the same club as Clint and practice with him, I can defintely say that his form is extremely consistent. However, I have seen changes in his scores and group sizes when he experiments about a bit with different equipment. So equipment can make a difference.

In saying this though, I would still think that because of his mental attitude he could still go out and win a tournament even with not 'perfect' equipment - just wouldn't get a 1400 :D He is very, very tough mentally!

Remember - every arrow shot is a 'good' shot if you learn from your mistakes :)

[cecile]

I agree also with ALL of you.

To m, the 90% mental looks like : you perfected your form and it is repeatable, your equipment is set and of good quality. What then makes the difference between a 10 and a bad arrow?
>>-------> Your mental skill, almost always your mental skills!

[Zoe]

I'd say that most people spend 90% of their practice time tuning their equipment, (because it is FUN!)

AAARGGHH!!! I

[James Park]

Interesting post Zoe.
As a coach I spend most of my time helping archers with technique.
I do watch the equipment, but only comment on it if I think there is a key need to change something or if the archer has some specific thing they want to cover.
Mostly, it is technique that they need to get right first, and is the area where they will gain most benefit from coaching and practice.
I also watch the mental bit, but you really need to watch it over a longer time rather than a short coaching session (and work on it over a longer time). Where I coach an archer over many sessions I do from time-to-time toss in a bit of mental stuff to challenge them a bit and to see how they react.

[fletch]

Archery is 33% Mental, 33% Form and 33% Equipment.


That leaves us with one 1% extra. It has to be luck , meaning a combination of factors on a particular day.

[cecile]

You're right for the last 1%. It reminds me of someone (a good archer) who hit the 10 on a spot as he was aiming the spot just above and was sure he was missing his target decause he released the string too soon...

[Marcus]

Zoe

When I coach I try to look at the whole picture and decide which one I think is holding them back.
For example this week I coached 3 archers,

Archer 1: is ripping his release aid off and too stressed out about score, so we worked on his approach to the training session and how to stop trying to score well, rather shoot well and let the score happen. His technique need some work, and I believe his gear does too, but this was getting in the way of the first 2.

Archer 2: Regular student of mine and very capable, brilliant mental game, yet I noticed some flaws in his setup. So we worked on improving his gear. He has shot some awesome scores with it as is, so now we are going for better performance from is gear, pushing the envelope there a bit.

Archer 3: Noticed a form falt earlier in the week and another archer commented on it. We made the change and she proceeded to shoot a 5x 60.

So 3 different archers, each with a different problem in their shooting. As a coach I nee dto concentrate on all three aspects and try my best to understand them all, otherwise I would have missed the fault with 2 of them.
With that said I am not a great coach, and I would say that 90% of coaches I know would have done exactly what I did with each.

[clever_guy]

If we are going to assign imaginary percentages to ideas - then I believe that optimal success - that Olympic Gold, World Champion, Best in the world success is 99% in the 1/10 of a second when you release your shot. The equipment tuning, mental gymnastics, archery training and physical conditioning are all the 1% that that is the preparation for the execution of the shot. All the situational enviroment data, and above aspects coming together, whilw being finely controlled by the archer is the 99% magic we are looking for...

...Beat that...

;) :P :P :lol:

-CG

[Michael Gonzalez]

Guys, if you talked to any of the US pros they will tell you "Yes, it's mostly mental." But there is training involved to get there. The first thing I would work out is to make sure your equipment is tuned properly. You cant proceed to the next steps without this one. When your equipment is on, then you should not have to question if the bad shot was your form or your equipment. Next, you work on executing near perfect form on EVERY shot whether in practice or in competition. Someone once told me to make your shot look perfect so that another person watching you would say "that was such good form there is no way he could of missed." Then work on mental imagery. Gentlemen, the essence of being a pro is to be a mental giant. This is very complicated indeed but when mastered you will shoot scores that you may have thought were possible. I spent some time with a Mathew's Pro and he could not stress enough to develop a shot sequence. In other words, 1. get into your stance, 2. adjust your sight, 3. nock your arrow, etc, etc. etc. I had been doing that for several years but it wasnt until he told me to do it in conscience effort that my scores changed. In other words, think each step through. DONT go into autopilot. Our minds are only capable of thinking one thing at a time. SO if you spend your time thinking about being nervous, guess what you will be nervous. But if you think each step through, you will not think about being nervous or feel the pressure of needing a 10 on this next shot. IT REQUIRES A LOT OF WORK TO THINK EACH STEP THROUGH. IT IS NOT EASY AND REQUIRES PRACTICE. Whenever, i practice or compete, Im mentally drained from going through my steps, however, I come out ahead. This same pro told to practice the steps when im not practicing, ie at work. It becomes easier with practice and time. I recently lost the state 3-d tour on 28th target out of 30 because I failed to go through my shot sequence. I needed a 12 or X to win and spent all my effort thinking about it that I failed to trust that the shot sequence would of ultimately lead me to a 12. The shot was very easy and the distance was easily distinguishable but I got caught up on the excitment and did not go through my sequence.
If anybody is interested, you can pm and i can hopefully help you more in detail.

[Gunzer]

The percentages are based on indictive numbers. It's certainly not exact. My view on this is that all are as important as each other. Some may take more time, or be more difficult for some to master, but essentually unless all 3 are working well, you will not shoot to your potential.

I totally agree with you here. Currently, my effort ratio is 20% Equipment, 60% Form and 20% Mental. A day before I shoot, I spot check my equipment, practice good drawing and holding form (although I couldn't practice release cause I haven't bought a practice release gear), timing of breathing and aiming, foot stance, arm to shoulder alignment, etc. and most of all, before I go to sleep on the night before the shoot, I psyche myself out. It's been my routine since early March this year.


There may be a 4th area, as mentioned before that would be fitness.
AAaahhmm... I think this would be classified under form. Without good fitness, how can you have good form?

[New Tricks]

When average shooters step to the plate we think 'gee, I hope I get some 10's this end'.

Spot on. I myself have only just returned to this game after some 10 years off and in the 2 weeks since I got a bow have shot just 10 short of my previous pb FITA and have equallled my FITA/AUST Indoor best (which back in the day was the Aust tourney and Aust record for both U18 and Mens Compound).

I have no doubt that equipment has a massive part to play. I used to be sponsered by a few different bow companies and Easton for my arows. I however as a Uni student/Junior with no money always had to make do with certain things. I know I had to sacrifice points some days when i could not replace important things. When I shot the National Indoor record i had 'high Left' '6 oclock 10' and 'Mars' written on the vanes of my arrows and aimed off knowing that that is where they would go. There are many here who remember that day. This time I just went a bought what I thought I needed. 33% Equipment out of the way. Money CAN buy you a better score.

Form on the otherhand is very subjective. I am aware that there are boimechanically correct ways to shoot but if you can train muscle memory to whatever you find works then do just that. I found it amazing that after 10 years my first shots felt like I had never left. Now 2 weeks later I am holding fairly well in the 10 but fatigue after an hour or so due to match fitness.

Lets get to the mental. This is what is getting me. I have shot some excellent arrows but find my mind wandering at times. When younger I was aware this happened but didn't really care. I have video of me holding a shot for 45 seconds way back then becuase I thought I would let it go eventually. Nearly without fail everytime I had issues with holding the dot still and tried to get through it I shot a 9. When a brother has to pump out 10 after 10 inners to get a decent score, 9s (I mean real 9s) just ruin your day.

I see Cousins shot a 299 in the World indoor and got beaten. Unless you shoot 30 perfect arrows you may as well stay home. The definition of perfect will I am sure vary from different camps but to me perfect is the same every time. I don't give a **** if the Koreans have lowered their rear elbows this year. Mine is higher and it stays there every time. I am certain that the brain wandering costs me more points than a 1 degree rear elbow elevation issue.

I think you should add a 4th section Marcus. Attitude. I admit that this would be included in Mental so perhaps the 33% could be divided but attitude is where you will get your points. Once again talking in the past (yeah yeah) I had a bad habit of dropping points and saying to myself 'OK I can still get a 57 this end' or '297 is still OK for this game'. RUBBISH. Every shot must be a 10. Leave the spotting scope at home and execute every shot perfectly. Too many people ask 'How did you shoot?' meainng how did you score. I would be happy shooting 144 Excellent arrows and getting 1360 than shooting 130 good arrowd and 14 excellent arrows and scoring around the same and blaming the wind for me not getting into the 80s.

Attitude also makes you practice. I will never walk off the range until my last arrow is a perfect feeling shot AND in the 10. Today it took me 18 arrows which whilst scoring well did not feel right. Guys like Noel Teelow have worked this out and that is why thay can shoot big scores in different disciplines like Barebow, pins and full freestyle.

I'd say that most people spend 90% of their practice time tuning their equipment, (because it is FUN!), 9% on their form and 1% on their mental game.

Mate, I must say for myself I am the opposite. My bow tuning consisted of me putting the nock point 1/8 above, putting on a D loop and shooting 4 bare shafts. Every shot I think about the form and every end I think about what I was thinking whilst shooting whilst walking down to get my arrows. This is like when guys buy a new fangled bow and don't shoot any better and blame the manufacturer for making poor equipment when in fact they just can't get their **** together.

I t killms me when i am practicing and I am sure others get the same, and you think about what will be happening at the next big tournament. You think about who will be saying what, you think about the guy who is the must beat standing behind you when you let down, you think about the guy on target 3 that you beat at the club shoot last weekend seeing if his grouping is better than yours. These are the things you should think about because these are where you will lose points if you don't deal with them in practice let alone at the Tournament.

[kgk]

Rather let me present this model. Archery is 33% Mental, 33% Form and 33% Equipment.

Any thoughts?

I think that your idea is very reasonable, but perhaps there are four components of equal importance, and not three, where you need to add

Physical Condition

to your model. By this we would include strength and aerobic ability, vision, etc.

I learned at a seminar that one Korean archer went from 1270 -> 1320 just by tuning, but somehow it's not nearly as important as the other three, since I suspect that one can "fix" tuning easily with money (by paying people who are experts to help them tune for a few days).

kgk

[New Tricks]

Physical condition is I would think included in form. It is like a Marathon runner saying that they have excellent form but have never actuall run anywhere or done any fitness work. Same reason why I include attitude into Mental.

[kgk]

Physical condition is I would think included in form. It is like a Marathon runner saying that they have excellent form but have never actuall run anywhere or done any fitness work.

This is wrong. Korean elementary school students can have excellent form, but they can only shoot at 30m because they're not strong enough to pull a bow and reach 90m.

kgk

[New Tricks]

And hence the reason why they will not win a Mens FITA tournament at that particular stage of their Archery career. You can't win if you can't go the distance. They are inclusive. We are discussing the whole Archer. We may as well grade archers on the amount of names they can drop of the number of times they can incluse the phrase 'My coach' into their posts. Who gives a poo poo if someone can shoot excellnet form with a piece of dental floss strung across a 1/8 piece of dowell. Dosen't make them a winner just yet.

[kgk]

And hence the reason why they will not win a Mens FITA tournament at that particular stage of their Archery career. You can't win if you can't go the distance. They are inclusive. We are discussing the whole Archer. We may as well grade archers on the amount of names they can drop of the number of times they can incluse the phrase 'My coach' into their posts. Who gives a poo poo if someone can shoot excellnet form with a piece of dental floss strung across a 1/8 piece of dowell. Dosen't make them a winner just yet.

Imagine this thought experiment:

Let's say that you went head-to-head with this year's Korean elementary school champion at 30m. Now, while you might be a great recurve shooter, let's say that you're beaten (what would happen to most people on this board, with a handful of exceptions [like Mr Barnes]).

Now, how would we rate the kid? I'd say: Excellent form, strong on many physical issues (eye sight, etc.), weak on absolute strength (compared to a mature adult).

But how would you rate the kid? Would you say that his form sucks because he cannot shoot 90m? So, I cannot endorse your position that physical conditioning is a subset of form, as that puts you in a difficult position with regard to questions like this one. It's much easier to break out physical conditioning as an orthogonal area---particularly as it is. :)

So, in summary, I think that Marcus needs four fields in his theory:

* mental
* form
* equipment

and

* physical condition

kgk

[wheredidthatgo]

Off on a slight tangent - I firmly believe that the most important characteristics of any elite athlete are the desire to perform at elite levels , a strong belief that they can achieve their goals and a willingness to do what it takes to get there.

Fitness , Form , Gear & mental tougness are all obviously very important for any sport but I think they are simply a means to an end. Elite Cyclists have their bikes and ride endless kms , Elite runners have their shoes and run endless kms , Elite golfers have their clubs and spend endless hours practicing.

Take a look at Lance Armstrong, Andy Lloyd (distance runner) and other elite athletes and tell me they were born physically superior to us or that it is gear, form or fitness that got them to where they are. Do you think Lance would be where he is now if he had listened to the first person who said "Your stuffed now mate"?

The way I look at it If they didn't have the desire, determination & belief they wouldn't even bother to acquire the gear, form or fitness in the first place.

Just my views - Sorry to sound like a motivational book

[Oldtimer]

Do you shoot well because you are confident, or are you confident because you shoot well ?????

[NOCK HUNTER]

I think one feeds the other!

[apexrob]

Agree with New Tricks attitude does help alot . I have been reading a book called "Sports Mind " by Jeffery Hodges and not one personally for readin self help books , though this is an excellent read and guide for any athlete wanting to excel one's performance through mental and emotional training . Good read guy's . :)

[chris-andree]

it is quite simple actual... you by the best gear you possible can...
then you have removed one source of error..
The rest is up to you... :D

[frommy]

I spotted this in the Glossary on Archery Interchange:

Nocking point - point behind which 99% of the problems occur. :lol:

[chris-andree]

I spotted this in the Glossary on Archery Interchange:

Nocking point - point behind which 99% of the problems occur. :lol:

I don't think i has grasped the point ...

[Michael Gonzalez]

After reading your respones, it's no wonder the U.S. continues to place in top 3 in any world event YEARLY.

[Marcus]

After reading your respones, it's no wonder the U.S. continues to place in top 3 in any world event YEARLY.Except in recurve, where you get your asses handed back to you YEARLY.

[kgk]

Except in recurve, where you get your asses handed back to you YEARLY.

Indeed; it's strange that we don't have a Korean coach yet.

kgk

[Shirt]

No it's not. Americans have ego (and a degree of xenophobia) coming out of their ears. Bringing in a Korean coach would involve admitting that as a nation, they don't know it all. And they won't ever do that...

[kgk]

No it's not. Americans have ego (and a degree of xenophobia) coming out of their ears. Bringing in a Korean coach would involve admitting that as a nation, they don't know it all. And they won't ever do that...

No, it's really much simpler than that: Nobody cares less about target archery here in the USA. However, people sure love their hunting. It turns out that you can get two chances to bag a critter: Once in firearm season, and again in archery season. (Actually, I think that archery season comes first, but I'm not sure.) So, there is a love of compound bows here, for hunting, and that is probably the genesis for most of our top compound shooters. You'll note that Americans are amazing at 3D (the rubber deer), and probably good at the more abstract field archery (it's ersatz hunting, after all).

However, there is zero interest, from what I can tell, in recurve archery, and it is a handful of people who do it by themselves, in total isolation, with very limited budgets. However, if there was a ban on compound bows for hunting, and recurve bows were the only ones allowed, the Koreans would be in trouble. Until then, however, they're perfectly safe, particularly as there is probably no cash here for a serious Olympic archery program.

kgk

[TER]

Except in recurve, where you get your asses handed back to you YEARLY.

Indeed; it's strange that we don't have a Korean coach yet.

kgk

Anyone want to set up a betting pool on when it will happen? I've got dibs on October this year it will be announced.

[Shirt]

You'll note that Americans are amazing at 3D (the rubber deer), and probably good at the more abstract field archery (it's ersatz hunting, after all).


"abstract field"? You mean like the NFAA animal round? If you do, they're good at that because it's incredibly easy. :lol:

[kgk]

Anyone want to set up a betting pool on when it will happen? I've got dibs on October this year it will be announced.

I wish I wish I wish... a highly regarded Korean coach would be just the ticket, although I'd feel sad for the country that he was snatched away from, of course.

kgk

[TER]

Your wishing will be over in a few weeks. 8)

[kgk]

You'll note that Americans are amazing at 3D (the rubber deer), and probably good at the more abstract field archery (it's ersatz hunting, after all).


"abstract field"? You mean like the NFAA animal round? If you do, they're good at that because it's incredibly easy. :lol:

I don't know anything about field archery, but isn't the NFAA animal round just paper animals (2D)? That's very abstract compared to the rubber deer (3D). :)

kgk

[Michael Gonzalez]

After reading your respones, it's no wonder the U.S. continues to place in top 3 in any world event YEARLY.Except in recurve, where you get your asses handed ba
ck to you YEARLY.

For the love of archery, please. One gold medal doesnt come close to our 5 since 1972 (5 out of 9). Besides, recurve archery is a dying breed mercifully being kept alive by the olympics.


Go throw a boomerang.

[Marcus]

After reading your respones, it's no wonder the U.S. continues to place in top 3 in any world event YEARLY.Except in recurve, where you get your asses handed ba
ck to you YEARLY.

For the love of archery, please. One gold medal doesnt come close to our 5 since 1972 (5 out of 9). Besides, recurve archery is a dying breed mercifully being kept alive by the olympics.


Go throw a boomerang.So the US has not won a womens gold and has not won a mens gold since 1996. Nothing at the world champs in recurve either.
Recurve archery is the biggest form of archery outside the USA and is growing. The Koreans have taken up compound are are starting to make a name for themselves there also.

Just another American who has no clue on what is actually happening out there in the real world. :roll:

Go throw a boomerang.
Go give a school kid an assult rifle

[ozther]

Just another American who has no clue on what is actually happening out there in the real world. :roll:

:rofl:

:o huh? you telling me there IS a world outside the USA? and that it's real? nah that can't be right.... ya'll don't know what your talking about....

[Eberbachl]

recurve archery is a dying breed mercifully being kept alive by the olympics.


Oh - give us some more of your pearls of wisdom! Please :D

:rofl:

[Jay.G]

[quote]recurve archery is a dying breed mercifully being kept alive by the olympics.

someone needs to have a look outside the U.S. :roll: Recurve a dying breed!! yea right!!!!!! :fist:

[andrewf87]

Go throw a boomerang.
Go give a school kid an assult rifle

Yeah too true, marcus you dont need to give them an assault rifle, they can just buy em over the counter at walmart

[Marcus]

They come in boxes of 'Count Chocula'

[andrewf87]

"oh mummy mummy look what i got" says the 7 year old boy
"an assault rifle, well you play nice now" says the mother

[kgk]

Go give a school kid an assult rifle

Don't try that in California, it's a felony to even let a kid (or any person under the age of 18 ) even hold an "assault rifle." And if you bring one onto the school grounds, I believe that's another felony... it's easy to end up in jail here.

And of course these are not even real assault rifles, given that they're semi-automatic... but it is a well established fact that the average American cannot tell the difference between a real assault rifle and an "assault rifle" (a semi-automatic look-alike), as they get very confused about firearms, in general.

kgk

[New Tricks]

I am thinking that the bait has been taken.

[Michael Gonzalez]

I am thinking that the bait has been taken.

Good job New Tricks. (by the way, cute girl on the avator)

Marcus, if that's the best you have then I would love to exchange punches all day but I dont have the time for this nonsense. You can go on and on about recurve archery but I really dont give a s-- about that sport. There are many more compound shooters for every recurve shooter. And believe me, the US has many more better pros than any other country.

[Marcus]

Actually Sparky here are some FACTS for you
These vast array of compounders you talk about are BOWHUNTERS which are NOT competitive archers. In fact in the target archery association the US only has as many members as Australia does. About 4000. France has 30,000 in theirs. In other words, the USA is small fry in the target archery scene.
These Pro's you talk about are mostly just indoor and 3D shooters and almost none of them make a living off it. Pro archer is a title that only a handful enjoy. Europe, Australia and Asia has many archers you would not be aware of who shoot full time.

Now please enlighen us on the number of competitive compound archers vs the number of competitive recurve archers and do not forget to include India, China and Korea in that count.

[kgk]

You can go on and on about recurve archery but I really dont give a s-- about that sport.

You might as well put a tattoo on your head that reads, "I have no taste."

And believe me, the US has many more better pros than any other country.

I'll bet that there are zero people in the United States who can make a living exclusively off of their shooting. Even David Cousins needs to make extra cash as a coach, as you can see here:

http://www.davecousins.com/fees.html

If the mighty DC needs to work (coach) to make ends meet, the others surely have no chance; I'll bet that every one of them has a day job. Can somebody with a day job really count as a "pro?" :)

kgk

[kgk]

Actually Sparky here are some FACTS for you

I'm sure that you are correct.

As an American, I would argue that the only reason archery exists in the United States is because it lets you kill more deer/year: This also explains why Americans love compound bows and 3D, of course. :)

I have no problem with hunters (particularly given that I love to eat tasty animals myself, although I am too lazy to seek them out), but it's sad to see archery only as a means to an end, vs. the exquisite journey to self-discovery that it can be....

kgk

[Rchr]

This subject has been discussed on Archery talk and the opinions are varied. Yes equipment and form are very important. But in the end one thing is the final deciding factor.
I have noticed that when they refer to 99% mental they are referencing that when all factors are taken to their potential the only thing that is going to make a difference is going to be the mental aspect of the game. I mean when you feel that your equipment is the best, your equipment is as well tuned as it can be all that is left is YOU. Who has the mental toughness to "duke it out" and emerge victorious. If you have ever been in a championship battle it is very mentally exhausting. I have been through a couple of shoots that just drained me even though I have practiced harder than the tournament itself.
I can give you a limited insight on the pro division.I have been shooting in the Pro division for the past 6 years, unfortunatly when I decided to advance to the Pro's my job and family demanded more of my time. But even with this I continue to compete (when I can go)in the Pro division. You are right there are only about 50 or so Pro archers that make over 50,000 dlls a year from shooting and only a handful that make over 75,000. (This info is from talking to a few of them and talking about how we would love to make a living only from shooting.)
As far as good shooters there are good ones all over and we often underestimate the Europeans, Aussies and so on. But when it comes down to it you can not deny that the U.S. Pros are a very formidable force to be reckoned with. The U.S. pros are usually in the lead or take the championship.
Target archery is not as big as it is in other parts of the world but when it comes to 3D it sure is a different stories. I am not a big 3D shooter myself, even though I do enjoy them and can usually turn in a decent score. But in the 3D tournaments it is not unusual to have 1,000, 2,000 or more competitors at these. Now they have made it to where competitors have to shoot qualifiers before they can attend a national championship.

I might not have as much international experience as others but I have shot in 4 countries and I can tell you this with certainty Compound is here and it is here to stay. Even in France where there are alot of recurve shooters the compound bows are strong. In all of these places that I have visited one opinion is common from the compounders and that is that they are not supported and kind of looked on as an unwanted stepchild by FITA.

Rchr

[Pete]

I think archers are 99% mental.

[robbo]

I think some of us are 100% mental. :D

[Rchr]

I think some of us are 100% mental. :D

Give that man a cigar!!