Use and Hand Position when using the various Release Aids

[Steve B]

I know I haven't been here long , and I haven't shot long this time, only since november 2001, but one thing that has really bugged me is the hand position (anchor) and correct use of release aids , as Jim says there are really only four types ( I think it was Jim), but the correct use and anchor alludes me, what do people think ? I know as a recurve shooter the anchor was very important and needed to be "positive". But I have trouble finding this with a release aid. Yes I have a peep and a scope (thanks leigh). Please, detailed comments on how you use them and the type would be appreciated. I am using a Scott Rhino, yep with "D" loop, and train with a Stanislowski miracle 2000 (sometimes :D ), tried the Cascade 10 and had great trouble. In anticipation thanks. BTW Jim maybe another chapter for your next book ? :wink:

[Eberbachl]

Hi Steve B,

I switched from compound barebow to freestyle unlimited about a year or so ago now, so I can remember trying to find an anchor with a release aid.

Being a barebow shooter, I tended to have a fairly high anchor (my right index finger at the bottom of my nose) anyway, so when some of the target guys saw what I was trying to do with a release aid the reactions were pretty funny.

I started with a Cascade 8 (identical to the Cascade 10 you described except a different cocking mechanism), and found a little knuckle spot at the back of my jawbone which was fairly consistent. The Cascade worked very well for a few months, but when I started having anticipation problems with it I switched to a two finger Stanislawski CNC release. The CNC is a whole new ball game, and took a few weeks to get comfortable with, but I found another anchor (similar to the cascade, but with a different knuckle) and prgressed from there.

I think the principles of anchor are similar whether shooting fingers or release...find something that you can consistently feel and repeat, exactly.

Positioning of your peep sight up and down will help you find a spot that is comfortable also, if you feel your anchor should come down, raise your peep etc... I think one good method of finding an anchor and peep height that works for you is to draw your bow (standing at about the middle of all distances you shoot) with your eyes closed. Find as comfortable an anchor as you can, and then heve someone move the peep up or down to meet your eye. This should result in an anchor/peep combination that feels quite natural for you. It is good to do this at a "middle" distance, because as you move forward and back, of course your aim, anchor and peep will have to go up and down slightly, so if you start with a good natural middle position, you should be good to move a little either way.

Also, make sure your draw length is right, a draw length that is too shor, or too long can make it very difficult to find a good anchor also....

In my opinion, also it would be good to find one release and stick to it. Get comfortable with a release, and shoot it. I think shooting and training with different releases may contribute to your problems also?

Maybe some of this helps?

Cheers,

Luke. :D

[James Park]

I agree with Luke's comments.
I often find the ABA archers have a higher anchor than I would prefer (probably relates to the shorter distances than for target archery, and to the larger number of archers who are used to barebow). These higher anchors do make it more difficult to get a good location. I think you need to have your hand below your cheek bone, as otherwise you find it difficult to get a position where you can both see through your peep and keep you head vertical. I use a peep to arrow distance (at full draw) of 110 mm, and think you will probably need to keep it at least 100 mm or greater.
I would definitely ensure that you keep your release devive and trigger away from your finger tips. I have studied the top archers very closely in this respect and all of them have a very deep grip on the release device - noone uses their finger tips. For the Scott release (I assume it is one of the type you have around your wrist, and use your index finger to operate the trigger?) I think it is important to get the trigger back past the first knuckle joint on your index finger.

[Marcus]

Have a look at
http://www.dva.asn.au/multimedia/
There are a heap of photos there of people shooting, all have different releases etc, you will start to see a pretty common theme to their anchors.
Also have a read of this on release aid shooting
http://www.dva.asn.au/articles/article.lasso?id=178

(not adding anything else when Luke and Jim have already said all)

[Steve B]

Thanks for those responses fella's , I do appreciate them very much, and will have a close look at the links, the main aim was that when I shot recurve target I had a very positive anchor sting in the middle of the nose and the middle of the chin my right index of course under my chin (traditional target cause thats what I shot, I have found something close but doesnt feel quite right :roll: . I guess I only need minor mods to the location. Jim I have 153mm between peep and arrow, the anchor itself just doesnt feel as positive as it used to , but hey I shall get there, thanks heaps guys 8) 8)

[Eberbachl]

I'm glad some of this is helbipng Steve B. Regarding some of the physical aspects of my string, It presses against the middle of my nose, and I feel it on the corner of my mouth also, as well as my knuckly anchor spot. It's great that you're looking for a number of positive indications that your anchor is correct.

My arrow to peep distance is 95mm (that's the barebow bowhunter coming out in me! :o :lol: )...153mm sound very long? Is that a cool distance Jim, or a bit longish? I think 153mm would give you a very low anchor...

Cheers,

Luke.

[mike]

I can beat that Luke, mine is 94 mm! And I have never been a barebow shooter.

I have tried it at around 110 and it feels awful, must be an anatomy thing, because I have noticed that a few people have it around the 100 -- 110 mark, for me it just feels weak and wrong. At 94 mm my index finger sits just under my lower jaw bone, which is for me the most comfortable place.

[Steve B]

Like you Luke , I have the string on the centre of my nose and have a "kisser" made out of fast flight so I can feel the string in the corner of my mouth as well, but because I am shooting a "rhino", I like to have the body touching the underside of my jaw, and with the "D" loop, that may help explain why the arrow to peep is so long , but it is comfortable and my arrow placement in the target is fairly consistent as is my grouping at most distances, IFAA and indoor are my prefered disciplines in ABA as well, just thought you might like to know that 8)

[Marcus]

Sometimes too the bow A to A length will cause the nock to peep distance to be different than on another bow.
Also a wrist style release is usually a lower anchor than the hand held. I use to rest the back of my hand under my jaw line with mine. Do you have a photo of yourself at full draw Steve we can look at Steve?

[James Park]

153mm is typical of the distance you get for a recurve bow. I would think it is too great for a compound.

[Steve B]

Jim I appreciate the comment , but if something is sort of comfortable ( and I might be grasping at staws for what I used to have as a recurve shooter) then doesn't it mean thats its ok ? After all I must admit that it is the best anchor I have had to date , and I can't find another that is more comfortable, Not sure just asking.
Marcus I do it has a DVA member in the photo as well , how do I send it for you to look at ( I hope it isnt going to be for general exhibition, I am shy you know :wink: )

[Marcus]

email it to me at marcus@kitsune.com.au

I'll look, but not post. :)

[Eberbachl]

:lol: :lol: ha ha Mike, I always knew it - you're a closet bowhunter (94mm) :lol: :lol:

Steve B,

I don't have a 'kisser' as such, i can just feel the string at the corner of my mouth. Maybe your release does make a lower anchor more appropriate, the photo You're sending Marcus sure will help. I assume we are all talking about the peep to arrow distance at full draw...?

Just a thought, because 153mm at full draw is different to 153mm between the arrow and peep along the string.

Cheers,

Luke. :wink:

[Steve B]

I like that comment Luke, cause actually it is the distance along the string from peep to arrow, I must admit I would not have enough hands to measure that at full draw :wink: , but at a guess I would think about 115 mm, so I guess thats not as bad as first thought, why has the damn sport become so technical (just musing :roll: ). As soon as I can I will scan the pic and onforward so you can have something to laugh at , Matt Cole is in it as well.

[Marcus]

Has Matt got a beer in his hands?

[Eberbachl]

I think a more appropriate question Marcus would be........how many? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, and Steve B, get somebody to measure the distance from the top of your arrow to the middle of your peep sight at full draw. This is the measurement we are all referring to. It is the one we use as part of the input data to determine our sight settings using Jim Park's Accurate Sights program... :wink:

[mike]

Just to put a spanner in the works, I have been getting good results with my "hole Avenger" release by having the index finger sit just under my jawbone, and having the index finger completley relaxed (holding no weight) and my middle finger and ring finger hold the weight. I then place the pad (tip) of my thumb on the trigger and just keep pulling into the wall untill it fires. Result: clean suprise release. It works better this way than if I take a deep grip on the release.

This flys in the face of Jim's teachings I know! Sorry Jim!!!

Hopefully I can justify this technique at the upcoming FITA trial!! :-?