Gaining points vs losing points

[James Park]

When we shoot indoors or field our mind is frequently more on not losing points than gaining them.
When we shoot long distance target our mind is frequently more on gaining points than losing them.
I think that this results in the archer having quite a different approach to the different types of events, and perhaps in some archers doing better at one type of event than another. For example, my forte seems to be target rather than field or indoor. Do you find this? How can we "think differently" or do something else to deal with the differences?

[Jay Bowden]

I quite often will tell myself at a target shoot, that this is just like shooting indoor.Which tends to make me shoot more robot like (repetitive,steady timing,just banging the arrows into the target.).I shoot quite a lot of indoor and sometimes I get into a zone where nothing distracts me and I just get on with it.This is what I try to replicate when I'm shooting target.

[James Park]

Jay,
Are you thinking about gaining points or about trying not to lose them?

[baldmountain]

I think the distance has something to do with that. At 20 yards it's pretty easy to shoot a 300 on an NFAA 5 spot so we are always thinking about not dropping that one arrow into the 4 and loosing a point. At longer distances (> 50 yards) tuning, wind, rain, etc have more of an affect. In an NFAA field round I can usually score 19 or 20 on any target closer than 40 yards. But on targets farther than 40 yards I'll shoot an 11 and start thinking about gaining points. Especially on the shorter targets.

The key is: at shorter distances you start thinking, "If I can just hold still I won't drop any points." At longer distances you think, "If I can just keep all the arrows in the gold I'll pick up a bunch of points."

When I shoot in a tournament I do my best to not think about score at all. I try to let someone else keep score and call arrows if I can. Better yet, I'd rather not even do that. If I could I'd just as soon have the previous target disappear once the arrow is gone. That's why I'd much rather shoot at a three spot or 5 spot face depending on the round. I do not want to see where my previous arrows went. I just want to focus on shooting the current arrow as well as I can.

I never could undesrstand why people would bring binoculars to a shoot. Especially an indoor shoot. If I see where previous arrows are I'm going to start thinking about my score and screw up. Some people literally glass every arrow. That would drive me insane. I bring binoculars now only because I shot 4 arrows and couldn't see which face in a five spot I had not shot at. I had to ask someone with binoculars to look for me. :oops:

[Jay Bowden]

Jim,
I don't really think about either. At 90mts all I'm concerned about is staying in the gold (Doesn't always happen that way), I'm not trying to reach a score each end,as long as it's over 50 I don't really care.These days reaching 50 is not really a concern.At the shorter distances I am trying to stay in the Gold for every shot without fail,If this happens the score will happen all by itself.At 30mts I try to aim at the exact same spot each time and am only thinking of a smooth release and follow through.This is the part of my archery where I think the most gains can be made.
Scores and points don't really concern me until I have to add up the total at the end.
If I was shooting to reach a PB and felt I was close to this,My thoughts would be of Shooting 10's,not of how many points I need or how many points I have left to stay in front of the game. I know that by shooting 10's,the score will sort itself out.
I hope this is where you're going with this?

[James Park]

I hope this is where you're going with this?
Absolutely.

[Flehrad]

I find that I am always in the mode of thinking of how many points I'm losing... but that may be a pessimism/optimism thing.

However, I generally don't think about it when I'm shooting but when I am scoring and fetching the arrows on my way to the target. I work on the sight picture, and seeing the arrow in flight hoping that the arrow goes where the sight picture was. If it does, then everything went well as the shot was executed as should have. But if it flys off, I know I have punched, or anticipated, or my grip is wrong etc. Then I go back and checklist my next shot. Stance, grip, draw, shoulders, weight/balance then release. And watch where it goes according to my sight picture.

I try to get my form so that I don't have to think too much about it, and it becomes second nature as I find it I start to think too much all the time, it makes my form worse.

[grantwomack]

This is a very good theory. Shooting a Portsmouth last night (60cm face, 5 doz arrows at 20 yards), I shot a 58 followed by a 54. The next 6-7 ends were all good, around 58-60 per half dozen. When I was shooting those, I was thinking about trying to make up for the points I lost in the 54 end. When I had made up for the points, my mindset changed and I ended up trying not to lose many points. When I started thinking along these lines was when I got a 56 end. I finished the round on a 577, which was a new PB for me.

I'd imagine that if I hadn't thought about not losing points at all after I had made up for my 54, I could have quite easily shot a 580 or higher.

Similarly, at the Nats last year, I shot a 36 and a 34 end at 90m. By realising these were bad ends, I made up for them with a 52 and a 54.

[2Dogs]

C'mon Grant....admit it.

You get excited when you HIT the target..so every point is "Preciioussssssss" :D. Hell you shake so much, It was hard to keep my eyes focused on you :P

Actually somebody else suggested that if we could harness the energy of your shake, there would be enough power to run the lights at Suncorp Stadium :wink:

[Shirt]

He's got better of late.

Think it's something about only having mid-40# on the fingers, rather than mid-50#...

[Marcus]

2Dogs Coaching Seminar
Right first thing you need to realise is that only 3 people at any time can beat me.
At this point that's taken by Bryce, Jim, Bryce, Zoran, Bryce, Brian, Bryce, Jay, Bryce, Leigh, Bryce and Clint.

Now hands up if you are one of them.

Piss off Clint, you can't watch this seminar.

OK now that he's gone, the rest of you need to realise that you all just plain suck. I mean what have you guys got to be proud of? Nothing! You are the biggest bucnh of sucks that ever did suck.

That's the end of the encouragement and self pride section. After lunch I'll show you how to pick which gear you will shoot by reading posts on AT, and how to write a creative resume.

[2Dogs]

You forgot I provided a Pillow and swag for Clint :lol: :wink:

and Marcus.....you suck too! :lol:

Who said anything about being in the encouragment business :wink:

[andy]

This is a very good theory. Shooting a Portsmouth last night (60cm face, 5 doz arrows at 20 yards), I shot a 58 followed by a 54. The next 6-7 ends were all good, around 58-60 per half dozen. When I was shooting those, I was thinking about trying to make up for the points I lost in the 54 end. When I had made up for the points, my mindset changed and I ended up trying not to lose many points. When I started thinking along these lines was when I got a 56 end. I finished the round on a 577, which was a new PB for me.

I'd imagine that if I hadn't thought about not losing points at all after I had made up for my 54, I could have quite easily shot a 580 or higher.

Similarly, at the Nats last year, I shot a 36 and a 34 end at 90m. By realising these were bad ends, I made up for them with a 52 and a 54.

Nice shooting Grant. I shot a few 570's with recurve. My best was 79, 76, 72. Managed my first compound one of 72 the other day. We have a guy at our club in his second indoor season. He's been getting 580s recently. I can see my double portsmouth record of 1151 going soon. :(

[grantwomack]

You get excited when you HIT the target.
Only when I'm aiming for your X10's! :D

Hell you shake so much, It was hard to keep my eyes focused on you :P
And you mean that didn't have something to do with the fact that you didn't go to sleep the night before?? :sleeping:

Actually somebody else suggested that if we could harness the energy of your shake, there would be enough power to run the lights at Suncorp Stadium :wink:
But why would they do that when they can just put you on a tall pole and light the stadium with the one that shines out of your arse! :wink:

[2Dogs]

:rofl: .........get back over here so I can dump more **** on you face to face :D

[grantwomack]

:rofl: .........get back over here so I can dump more sh*t on you face to face :D
NEVER!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! :)
Might be back in October 2005, but can't see myself being able to afford it before then. And even then, it will only be on holiday.

[Marcus]

Back to the subject

This one depends.
At 90m it's gaining points. I try to gain as many over 50 per end as possible. At 70m it's the same but the ends are 55's, 50m it's 56's. At 30m it's losing points, don't expect to shoot 9's there.
On the non-FITA rounds it's losing points. I hate dropping points on a Launceston even at 50m. In Perth's, Canberras etc I also hate to drop a point.
Field is dropping points, especially in 3D and ABA where I don't think I should miss (even though it's unmarked.) Only shot a little FITA Field, however that is also dropping points.
Indoor is certainly losing points. Once I drop a 9 there is not making it up, my only problem there is not getting lazy and dropping more than one.

Honestly I don't think it changes how I approach the shot. If I shoot a 6 on my first arrow I think "oh well, 56 with a 6 isn't bad" and keep going.

[The One]

When I'm shooting a FITA, I always try and get certain points for each end - like for 90, it's 45, and 70 + 50, it's 50 points. I do find that this can be a problem. For instance - if I've got one arrow to shoot at 70m, and need a 10 to break the 50, I can sometimes freak out at the demands, and drop a 7 or worse. It's not a good habit, and I really need to stop thinking about accumulative score, and focus on each arrow.

[SteveFSA]

Good Topic!

Last week at league I had a good round going but the thought that I haven't dropped a point yet started entering my mind. It was no suprise that soon I did just that. Staying positive (gaining points) is a tough for me on the indoor rounds. Shooting FITA target this never enters my mind and so I have been more successful, and it's more fun.

One stratergy I'm going to try, is just paying attention to X's on the indoor round. I think this will keep me more positive and in the frame of mind of always gaining points.

-- Steve

[James Park]

Good Topic!
One stratergy I'm going to try, is just paying attention to X's on the indoor round. I think this will keep me more positive and in the frame of mind of always gaining points.
-- Steve
Good approach Steve. Aside from being more positive, I am sure your groups will be tighter.