Blank Butt shooting

[Flehrad]

Once again my ever going cycle of target panic is setting in. Don't know why or what is causing it, but I am determine to get past it.

I have decided to try blank butt shooting, and concentrating on just holding steady on white target space, and pulling my release through smoothly and consistantly. That way, I can then work on just holding steady in the gold without thinking of the release and punching etc.

After one session, I was grouping a rough 9 arrow group on the target ( about 40cm diameter) with all 9 shots going off smoothly, arrow flight straight and looking good.

Two things I noticed.
One, I was not being "surprised" by the release, but yet, I was not conscious of me setting the release off. By that, I mean, I wasn't getting scared like "Sh*t, it went off", but more like "Oh, there goes the arrow".
Is that a good thing?

Secondly, aiming roughly at the same height of the gold, my entire group dropped a lot. At 50m on the 80cm face, the sight setting for the center, blank shooting dropped the entire group down into the height of the blue.
What does this actually mean? Does it mean anything at all in the first place? Why is the group dropping?........

I've tried to keep the same form as my regular shooting....
Don

[toxic_rabbit]

Try shooting with a clicker. Might work, there are a few compunders out there that use them.

[James Park]

You should be able to hold the sight aimed at the centre of the target, with your thumb on the trigger without it going off. I would practice that. After you have held the sight on the 10 ring with your finger on the trigger for, say, 5 or 6 seconds, let the shot down. That is, intentionally do not shoot it. The aim is to convince yourself that you can actually hold on the 10 ring and not punch it off.
If you find that too challenging, first try just aiming at the 10 ring without having any intention at all of getting your finger anywhere near the trigger or shooting the shot.
Once you have convinced youself that you can do that, you can then work on using the release device correctly.

[Marcus]

Jim's advice is good and I would go down that path rather than blank butt shooting.
I use blank butt shooting to reinforce technique only, not as a target panic cure. For target panic cure I concentrate on shooting at targets without aiming. That is I don't try and hold on the centre, rather let it while working on the release mechanics. If I get the urge to punch I let down.
What you may find helpful is shoot 1 arrow blank target, one arrow on target. Feeling should be the same.

You don't need 'instant cures' like back tension releases or blank target if you have will power.

[Wyrd]

You don't need 'instant cures' like back tension releases or blank target if you have will power.

I think that's more than a little harsh. From what I've seen, target panic isn't conscious enough, or (by definition) enough under the control of the archer, to be susceptible to willpower alone. I think it's more a case of re-training your subconscious mind to respond to the sight of the target (or the gold) in a different way. The advice that's been offered so far seems to support that theory, as does the method I've seen used (close to Jim's advice - come up to full draw and hold on the gold, with no intention of shooting, for as long as you can, with the aim of the exercise being not to shoot).

[NOCK HUNTER]

Having the same problem a couple of years ago and trying everything
I stopped shooting with a trigger and picked up a back tension release
and i haven't looked back :D

I now don't suffer from target panic and can shoot a trigger if i wish :D

Carter have a good video covering this, Urban Archery sell it

Good luck Flehrad

[Marcus]

No it's not harsh, I had target panic so bad as a junior I couldn't aim closer than the red.
I used a back tension release to teach me to hold on the centre while executing the shot, I was told it is impossible to punch these, so I didn't.
Unfortunatly I now see most people who take up back tansion because of target panic punch them as much, worst part is that most then say "I get better results with the trigger" and don't understand that they are flat out shooting it wrong.
Target Panic is a habit, not a disease. It's due to impatience and begins with punching. It only takes one shot to start this habit developing.

It's like saying smoking is not under your control. Say thing. It's not easy to break the habit, but will power alone can do it, as long as you are prepared to try to do it. (Will take a drop in points)
With that said if someone buys a back tension release and uses it correctly that can help break the habit quickly.

[James Park]

Yes, I think the key is patience. I am convinced it is just a mental thing and that it is necessary to convince the archer that it is indeed possible to aim on the centre without having to immediately bang the release off. Hence my suggestions above. Fact is, I do not know of any top archers who punch. A major difference between the top archers and the average archers is exactly how well they operate the release, so if you wish to be a top archer you simply have to get this one correct - otherwise, "average archer forever".
I agree with Marcus that to cure it will often take a drop in scores first (but you will score many more points later).
Same story exactly for recurves and clickers.

[Shirt]

"You can't punch a back tension..."

Yes I can! It just takes a different bunch of muscles to contract than a trigger... :D

[James Park]

I have seen many archers punch a (so called) "back tension" release device. Definitely can be done.

[Harald]

Guess me being lucky. Was adviced to start out with a BT but mostly due to this helps enforcing good form (Had one of those wrist attached hunter type for some months but that doesn't count) I now interact using the BT with new Scat release (oil dampened delayed release with aspect of surprise) Think these thingies helps as a good protection against target panic. Dunno when the arrow launches so I bl... well have to aim steady in the middle all the time waiting for it to happen...(Simple as that)
www.scatrelease.com (I like it, though it feel's kinda clumsy in hand compared to my Trueball sweetspot ultra 4 (2002 model))

Next I will try a Carter solution (Whatever number they've reached when I get there) Think they easily can be changed from triggered to BT. :bday:

PS! You can subscripe for the Carter at Urban, new one every year :D :D :D

[Wyrd]

Hmm. Reading the above, I think I phrased my original post badly. I wasn't intending to imply that willpower had no part in getting over a case of target panic. It's more that, with any 'mental' problem (including the aforementioned quitting smoking, exam difficulties, etc.) saying only 'enough willpower will get you through it' could be unhelpful. I know I've had similar things said to me in the past sometimes, and it's made things worse, as I've tried, failed and assumed that, as well as the original problem, I have no willpower (true, but not currently my point :D ). The drive for sorting out any difficulty with form or techinque has to come from the individual archer - which effectively means willpower - but I think encouragement and assistance with advice is at least as important.

This could well be total rubbish - it's too darned early after too late a night over here - if you disagree, please feel free to tell me I'm spouting garbage :).

[James Park]

Wyrd,
Yes, I agree.
I addition to what I wrote above, I think it is useful to take a deep grip on the release device and to get the trigger away from the end of your thumb, back onto the base of your thumb where your sense of touch is less.
I addition, by flexing your fingers a bit and taking a bit of the weight with that flexing you will make it easier to be confident that if you simply hold longer aimed on the 10 ring the release will operate.
That is: get the mental bit correct, and help it by good technique.

[Flehrad]

I originally was intending to go to a BT release, however, after reading all of the posts here at AF, I decided to stick it through with a thumb trigger, because of cost, and because I shouldn't have to change equipment to solve the issue.

At one stage, I learnt that I was anticipating the shot severely and that was hampering me quite badly. I only noticed it when I tried to bring my circle into the gold, with my thumb tucked behind the trigger so it wasn't possible to set it off, and found that my draw arm would involutarily jerk as if the shot was taken..... it scared me quite badly and I have tried to get that sorted. Now, I don't do that, but it is still hard to get the circle to stay in the gold.

I do think it is willpower, and I will try it if the weather permits tomorrow in Sydney :-?

[Ozzy]

Being a sufferer of severe target panic, let me say, blank butt shooting is totally useless for this curse. As soon as a target goes up, it is still there. Great for your tecnique though. :-?
The holding/not releasing on a target face is a good cure, but certainly not instant. Patience :wink:
Too small a circle or dot as an aiming mark will accentuate movement as well. So avoid that. :roll:
What well meaning advisors do not realise is this horror of not actually being able to aim & hold in the middle. It is then only natural to get the shot away as quickly as possible when it is anywhere near the 10.
I am experimenting with all manner of dots /circles at present & it looks as though the larger, thicker style "gunstar" circle seems the most beneficial. :wink:

[Marcus]

Another good idea is drop your lens power. high magnification is NOT essential to good scores, and in many many cases the cause of bad scores.
Drop to a 2x lens with a large circle and that should help make the shot more comfortable. I find that poor use of my release aid also happens when I am not holding steady, often fixed by dropping lens power.
Removing the dot as Ozzy advises is a great idea. Go to a massive circle and look at the 10. Even try removing the circle.

(Sten shot 1371 at the Jr Nats with a 2X lens, Chris shot a 1293 with a 1.5x lens, Erika shot a 1368 with a 2x lens, Dave Barnes shot 1366 with no lens etc etc)

[Chris]

i agree with marcus on the piont there is no need for high magnification in ur scopes.

for last year i shot an 8x lens and couldn't figure out why my groups would go from left one end to right another so on so forth. the put the 1.5x in and it worked brillantly all in the gold at 90m first time we tried it

Magnification depends on the Archer though

[Flehrad]

I shoot with a 4x lens in my Titan, and I have removed the dot and now only use the medium circle to aim.
But I find that I shoot better with the 4x at 30m than I do on the 2x lens that I also have, and I am not really sure why. I also find that at 90m the 2x lens circle is too "large"?....

Wasn't able to get out and shoot today, had to go shoe shopping.......... :o
But the weather wasn't so crash hot anyways with major lightning storms.... :-?

[Marcus]

Drop the magnification, trust me. Change to a 2X, lock the 4X away and don't go back till you are shooting MUCH better.
Also everytime you get the urge to punch at full draw let down!!!

Between these two you will be shooting better in no time!

[Flame]

Is there a sale price on the 2x for DVA members?

bring one down on Sunday and Ill try it

[SteveFSA]

One other thing to try is a BT release with a practise cam in it. The Zenith training kit for example. The training cam will tell you if you are flinching your shots as well. Many shooters don't relaise they are doing this until they try the practise cam and see the results. The looks I've seen on archers faces after a session with the the practise cam is priceless.

As for punching the BT release, I agree it can be done BUT the nature of the BT release makes it more difficult to do it, and when you do punch it's obvious (at least I think so). I'm a big believer in using the BT release. I have my students start out with these then go to a trigger later on if they want to.

-- Steve