Getting bow sholder down

[baldmountain]

I'm having trouble keeping my bow sholder down. What is the best way to set and draw a bow so that the bow sholder stays low? (The scapula stays low and locks into place?) I can always tell when my bow sholder is scrunching up. I start spraying arrows all over the place. :(

[James Park]

Geoff,
Can you post a picture of you shooting?

[baldmountain]

My daughter took these so they are from a bit lower vantage point than you might like. They are in my basement so I'm shooting at a target that is a bit low. (Yes, I know I need to clean up the basement. My wife reminds me many times. :D )

http://home.earthlink.net/~baldmountain/front.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~baldmountain/rear.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~baldmountain/back.jpg

[baldmountain]

I should also mention that I dislocated my collar bone. (Doing something stupid.) The collar bone on my release side sits a cm or two closer to my other collar bone than it should. (Close enough that the U space between my collar bones is gone.)

[robbo]

(Yes, I know I need to clean up the basement. My wife reminds me many times. :D )

Hey looks like my place. :D

[baldmountain]

Looking at the top picture it seems like both of my sholders are a bit bunched up. The bottom picture looks OK. Is my draw length a bit too short? I also seem to be leaning into the string a bit in the middle picture.

I could use to loose 50 lbs too. :D

[baldmountain]

Oh, and it looks like I'm leaning back just a bit in the third picture, but that may just be the angle the photograph was taken...

[James Park]

Geoff,
A few comments:
- As you are shooting downhill, I think your body should be angled a little towards the target instead of being straight upright as it is. As you have it, the forces on your bowarm should will be trying to push your shoulder up and leaning forward a little will reduce this and make t a little easier to hold your arm steady.
- Your string arm shoulder is also possibly a little up.
- I notice that on your bowhand you seem to have the lower part of your thumb muscle, and hence probably your palm, touching the grip. This makes it almost a certainty that you will be twisting the bow. I would raise your hand just a little so you are not touching it there. Also, relax your thum and fingers a little (they seem to me to have quite a bit of tension in them).

[The One]

Geoff,

Try rolling your front shoulder back and down in the set phase of your shot. This should help stop it bunching up a bit, and also allow it to be a bit more relaxed throughout your shot.

Andy

[James Park]

Geoff,
Try rolling your front shoulder back and down in the set phase of your shot. Andy
I am not so keen on that. Looking at the orientation of your Humerus, I think it is correct. You can indeed get your shoulder to appear lower by rotating the Humerus, but that does not lower the shoulder joint itself.

[Robert de Bondt]

Baldmountain,
I would like to add my little bit, as follows:

[Flehrad]

And your arrow is too long :P

[baldmountain]

Aaaaaa! Too much!

I'll need a while to digest and work all of this into my shot routine.

I shot a few arrows tonight. My main focus was to keep my hand up a bit and to keep my sholders down. One of the things I found that helps is I usually rest my bow on my upper thigh when setting and starting the draw. I moved the bow down so it is resting closer to my knee when setting and starting the draw. It feels like my sholders are lower. If nothing else I found that I needed to move my peep down a cm or two closer to the arrow in order to anchor my chin between the first and second knuckles on my release hand. (My anchor feels much better.)

The thing that makes me a bit nervous is that I feel like I have some tension in my sholders like I'm pulling a chest expander at arms length.

I don't want to post more pictures until I work all of this into my shot routine.

Thanks!

[baldmountain]

And your arrow is too long :P

Nah. They are BIG FAT indoor arrows so they need to be long in order to spine correctly.

[stodrette]

If you don't want the input, don't ask the question...... :-?

[baldmountain]

If you don't want the input, don't ask the question...... :-?

:o

It's just that if I'll never be able to make ALL of those changes all at once. I really appreciate the comments. Hence:

Thanks!

:D

[Robert de Bondt]

I appreciate how you feel Baldmountain and normally I would never give any of my students that much information in one go. I would suggest you work on one or two things at a time and would suggest that you start with your stance and fix your bow hand.

Even though there are quite a few things you could improve on, your form looks quite good compared to a lot of archers out there, so take it one step at a time.

Good shooting

[MerlinApexDylan]

If you don't want the input, don't ask the question...... :-?

Strodrette, you are definitely not a flexible piece of bamboo are ya? :-? :lol:

[baldmountain]

Finally got to shoot a round tonight. I concentrated on not having so much hand on the bow and trying to keep my sholders down.

I feel really good about my hand position. You guys were really right about my having too much hand on the bow.

I shot reasonably well but I felt like I had a LOT of tension in my sholders. Not in my Rhomboids, but in my deltoids. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, or just getting used to a different shooting form. I did well at the beginning of the round, but as the round progressed I felt tired, started shaking, and made a few bad shots.

(I left the cable for my camera at work so I'll have post a picture tomorrow.)

[baldmountain]

The new pictures...

http://home.earthlink.net/~baldmountain/front2.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~baldmountain/back2.jpg

[andy]

Well done, looks like you are getting there.

[stodrette]

The dog is a ham..... :D

[baldmountain]

The dog is a ham..... :D

Yes she is. :)

Actually, I got to calling her a "big stupid flea hotel". Now she thinks her name is: "flea hotel." :o :lol:

She's a good dog. Mostly. ;)

[mbomike]

Baldmountain.
Are you drawing up whilst raising the bow to the target?

[baldmountain]

Baldmountain.
Are you drawing up whilst raising the bow to the target?

I usually set the bow while it is pointing at the ground in front of me. I then draw while raising the bow. So, yes. I am.

I've been reading my copy of Archery Anatomy today and I see that this is wrong. It causes you to pull up your front sholder during draw. On the other hand Ray seems to recommend an odd draw where you hold the bow above your head and pull it down into position during the draw. (Kind of looks like a Kyoto draw.) I assume a modified "T" draw is better with the bow held slightly high so the bow sholder is pulled down into position rather than pulled up into place?

[mbomike]

Here's something for you to try.

Raise the bow onto target. Sight pin just above.
Then draw straight back.

What this is doing is locking your bones from your wrist through your elbow to the shoulder into the scapular.

At the moment you are requiring your muscle groups to hold everything into place. Thats why you are getting fatigue.
Also your shot gun results are because the muscles you are using to hold the bow arm up and steady are "squishing" around, therefore no consistancy with your shots.

Like the bow is a machine, you too must be a machine. No wishy washy **** :wink:

[baldmountain]

I need to stop reading and start listening.

I was reading Archery Anatomy and started holding the bow high in order to draw in a straight line rather than pulling and twisting into position. The trouble is that holding the bow high causes your bow sholder to rise up and you are screwed. I think this is why I had a lot of tension in my sholder.

I started doing what mike suggested and holding the bow so it is no higher than the target. This keeps my bow sholder down and I feel a lot more steady.

I also feel like my back is not so hollow as Robert suggested.

I still like my new "not so much" grip.

I haven't shot enough arrows to be sure but preliminary results look promising.


thanks!

[mbomike]

Hows the practice going Baldmountain?

[baldmountain]

Hows the practice going Baldmountain?

OK. I still have a LOT of work to do. I feel good about my grip and sholders, but not sure about my release. Sometimes shooting is like scrunching up a balloon. You press in on one side and the other side pops out.

I think I mainly have to stop thinking so much and just practice. (I also need to stop reading archery boards and spend the time practicing instead.)

[mbomike]

(I also need to stop reading archery boards and spend the time practicing instead.)


I hear you on that one :roll: