ABA and IFAA

[Kuru]

Is it just me or is the ABA not that keen on pushing IFAA ? Seems to me alot of members are just not that keen to shoot it and that really sucks as it's the best field round out there ! I spose it begs the question should IFAA be handed over to dare I say AA to better promote it ? For the better of the sport

[darthfik]

Why would AA promote IFAA when they have FITA Field?

[CMB50]

Good point Darth. AA have Fita Field and i can't see them adopting a second field game. However i'm also not sure that ABA are doing enough to promote the sport and take it to the popularity it deserves. Would i be right in suspecting that the reason that IFAA is struggling with ABA is because as a general rule of thumb, most ABA members don't or don't like shooting distances longer than 50M?

[Randall Wellings]

Garath..that is one of the dumbest posts on this forum yet, and yes, it is you who appears to have this silly idea.

The members, note 'THE MEMBERS' are ABA and it is those members who have the responsibility of promoting the sport. Clubs have the opportunity to promote...do they?? Branches have on many occassions been instructed clubs within their control to 'push' IFAA.

It comes down to time, dedication, opportunity, dedication, ability, dedication, facilities, dedication and some more extra time thrown in for luck....

As a rule, many club member just don't have the extra time, I know personally, this to be very true...it's too easy to just turn up and shoot whatever is going...most A.B.A. clubs have their courses in place, as do most A.A. clubs.

How often do A.A.clubs hold FITA Fields?...not very often I can assure you.

Field Archery Australia (under ABA) is moving quite well in the development of Field Archery...right now, some good plans are in the pipeline for the training of HP coaches..this will take in a lot of the technical side of field shooting...team development and a few other ideas are being tossed around.

So all things being equal...IFAA is going to progress quite well...we do have the WFAC in 2006.

I am interested to know....what are you doing to promote IFAA in your region.

Cheers

[DanceswithDingoes]

maybe IFAA could become the paper round of 3DAAA? :iamwithstupid:

[mbomike]

maybe IFAA could become the paper round of 3DAAA? :iamwithstupid:

Then recycle the paper into plastic. :wink:

[robbo]

Unbelievably this thread gets worse. :o

[mbomike]

Not yet........

















http://www.users.on.net/wwwsys/Images/Forum/TOX2.jpg




Now it is :D

[OldDog]

And then mold the plastic into animal shapes 0X Then add score zones...OH YEAH BABY.....3D ROCKS :rofl:

[Flame]

Not yet......
Now it is :D

:rofl:

[mbomike]

And then mold the plastic into animal shapes

It just seems like natural Darwinian evolutionary selection. Dontyathunk :wink:

[OldDog]

You know it Mike. :D

[James Park]

Missing the point I think:
- If AA wanted to run an IFAA round, it could.
- If ABA wanted to run a FITA target round it could.
Nothing to stop either happening. Just that if you want to claim a FITA Star or record it would need to be a FITA run by AA.

[OldDog]

And they do Jim. Good point. :o

[mbomike]

ABA--
.........}----ABAFITA--
FITA--
..............................}3DAAA :D
AA---
.........}----AAIFFA---
IFFA--

[dad]

aT DVA we have allmost compleated revamping our 14 target IFAA course with all new butts . should have all the marker pegs in next week .
Then we will be holding monthly comps / also plan to over lay 12 target FITA field on same butts just change faces and we can shoot either game.
Intrest better be be forth coming FOR BOTH TYPES of field shoots oyherwise it will be a hell of a wasted effort from a fewpeople try to to get the number of people shooting field up to levels where keen competion to improve skills will thrive .

[Bruce]

I agree with Randall on this , clubs need to start shooting some IFAA as I believe that it is the best field game we shoot . As a branch controller , I can schedule as many ifaa shoots that clubs apply for , however , if archers don't turn up then clubs will be less inclined to apply to host these events .

If we can start getting more archers turn up then , we will get more clubs offering to host these events , I went to Sale earlier this year to shoot IFAA , great turn up nearly 50 archers down there wich I don't think was to bad for a 1 day shoot in the middle of January .

THis year we have the following IFAA shoots scheduled in the branch , hopefully if we can get big turn ups we will have more next year .

In Greater Vic branch we have

Lilydale , 29th of Febuary,
BMB 29/30 may State titles
Lilydale , 29th August

THis year only these two clubs applied for IFAA events , my club Geelong doesn't have a course set up yet but next year we will be hosting some events

In Gippsland they have
Macallister, 2 may
West gippsland 27th of June
Phoenix on the 29th of August
and Macallister on the 28th of November

So in the state this year there are 7 more IFAA events to attend , whilst this may not be perfect as branch controllers we can only put on the calenderwhat is applied for .

It would be great if archers in clubs could start pushing there clubs to put in ranges and start shooting the rounds , hopefully having the wfac here in 2006 will give us something to build on .

I think the club at wra is in the process of laying out a range for the future


BRuce

[Randall Wellings]

mbfmike...your a real tosser!! :wink: :lol: :lol:

cheers

[mbomike]

Sorry Randal, it's in my Genes :lol:

[Randall Wellings]

mbfmike...two "L's" in Randall you fool..two "L's" :lol: :fist: :lol:

cheers

[mbomike]

Sorry M8..I only know 3D's :fist: :D :D

[BBS]

ABA doesn't promote IFAA
I think Syd Green would give you an argument there

Members of ABA in Vic anyway just don't like IFAA that much, at Lilydale we got on average last year about 14 people at a club IFAA shoot, as opposed to 20 plus for 3D and 35 plus for ABA.
I went to a designated club IFAA at West Gippy last year and there was only 3 people that shot it, while they had 4 people shoot on the ABA course which they had to put targets on when the IFAA course was already setup.

[Marcus]

Yep but if you look at those who went to Lilydale last year BBS, almost all of them also shoot target as well (you, me, CMB50, the Westons, Leigh, Annette) that over half.
Seems that for IFAA to grow and thrive it needs to reach target shooters more.

[Randall Wellings]

Seems that for IFAA to grow and thrive it needs to reach target shooters more

What's wrong with those same 'target shooters' promoting the game themselves...i'm sure they do..the Westons do as does Leigh..Clint does.

So what's the point in pointing fingers at "whose to blame"

Fact is...IFAA will only appeal to those that are comfortable shooting it..and yes target shooters are...

ABA (Field Archery Australia) is working to address the woes of its members who aren't that comfortable with the IFAA format.
Coaching and its going development is where it begins and these areas are being addressed.

Cheers

[Marcus]

What's wrong with those same 'target shooters' promoting the game themselves...i'm sure they do..the Westons do as does Leigh..Clint does.

So what's the point in pointing fingers at "whose to blame"

No one is pointing fingers, rather looking for solutions.

Problem with any form of archery (3D, FITA, IFAA ABA etc) is that new archers must be introduced to it. All the guys mentioned above have been shooting for a long time and search for chances to shoot. New archers don't know this and thus never get introduced to it. Had I not come from an ABA/AV club I would not have ever shot an ABA round, nor would have have seeked it out.

Both organisations are missing out on their key target market by not promoting their games well enough.

Ok it's up to the members to promote it.

Dude, that fine for pro-active people like you and me, but 95% of archers just want to shoot. They don't live and breathe their hobbies, they pay others (AV and ABA) to do it for them. If ABA and AA wish to watch their numbers grow they must get down and promote their sport. Sitting back and saying "well you members must do it" is not going to get them anywhere.
It's a competitive world, those who market themelves will win, those who don't will die out.

[Bruce]

I agree with much of what you are saying Marcus , but as a branch controller , when I set a calender I have to give the members of my branch what they want , if most people in the branch prefer to shoot ABA then that is the event I must set most in the calender. What we need to do is get people spreading the word about IFAA to there club members , get more members shooting , get more ranges at clubs and it will grow .

I don't think that it will ever replace ABA as a round in the leading popularity stakes , but I would like to give it a real good run for its money.

I love IFAA and would shoot it every weekend if I got the chance :D

But I can't be biased :)

Looking forward to DVA getting there 14 back and running , I will try and get up for a shot as soon as you are going ,

we are going to put 28 in on our new grounds as a first up and then fit ABA over the top .

[Marcus]

Yep agreed Bruce. I think IFAA requires a total commitment from member level up to top brass. If one won't come to the party neither will the rest.
Chicken or egg thing (which Erika states is always egg first,but we won't go into that. )

[Bruce]

Marcus , were you aware that we senior Vice president of IFAA is an Australian at the moment , also we have had several other high ranking officials on the world council .

ABA does promote IFAA , and support it , but we need the members to get behind it as well . I think that the top brass is doing as much as possible , however we still need to get the numbers on the field .

We may need to shoot a modified round only out to 55-60 yds and get them interested that way . I am not totally in favour of this as I think it will take away from the true ifaa round .

As sight shooting becomes more prevelant in ABA I think you will find more archers turning to ifaa to get a further challenge . we just need to provide it



Bruce

[robbo]

Dude, that fine for pro-active people like you and me, but 95% of archers just want to shoot. They don't live and breathe their hobbies, they pay others (AV and ABA) to do it for them. If ABA and AA wish to watch their numbers grow they must get down and promote their sport. Sitting back and saying "well you members must do it" is not going to get them anywhere.
It's a competitive world, those who market themelves will win, those who don't will die out.


:o :o :o I...agree? :-?

What's the world coming to? :D

[robbo]

I want to get at least a 14 target IFAA course up and running this year.


In another thread, (Ican't remember where) somebody mentioned a couple of shorter IFAA rounds. Can anyone tell what they are?

Starting people on shorter rounds maybe a way of easing them into it. :D

[OldDog]

Theres a small ifaa game called a flint round robbo, Dont know where you would look for the rules but from memory it is only played out to 30 yds with the small faces. Neat little game but I think its primary goal was as an indoor game.

[rinaldo]

Do you think IFAA would be better served if AA was running the game? I,ve been a member of an ABA club for about 3 years and no one here is interested in shooting IFAA. Some of the reasons given are , distances are to long for pin shooters, takes to long to complete and its not like hunting. Australian Bowhunting Association is going to attract archers that prefer a simulated hunting game. Seems to me the ABA should be marketing a product that targets their membership core and IFAA should be targeting FITA shooters. IMO :D IFAA seems to be a great game run by the wrong organisation. Please dont get me wrong this not ABA bashing, but as their name suggests ABA is a hunting organisation.

[Bruce]

The distances aren't to long for pin shooters , you just need to know how to use your pins .

We have pin shooters here in vic that shoot into the 530's regulary . BBS shot some fantastic pin scores last year .

I believe that they sight in for 25,35,45,55,65 yds or something similar and then learn the trajectory of there bow well to know where to hold there pins to get the 70 and 80 yd shot as well as the shorter targets .

I think that if you set up a second set of pins for ifaa it would be much easer than having settings for ABA or 3D .


Maybe BBS or Old dog could comment , I believe before Noel stopped shooting IFAA he shot some pretty mean scores with pins .

Myself I haven't tried , I shoot fsu and like to use a scope

[rinaldo]

I hear what your saying Bruce but I'm only going on what I have heard at our club. I know Ottmar Richter put a in alot of work cutting in a IFFA field but it wasn't used to often because a lack of interest from the members.

[Randall Wellings]

IFAA seems to be a great game run by the wrong organisation. Please dont get me wrong this not ABA bashing, but as their name suggests ABA is a hunting organisation.

and ignorance is bliss...and don't take that the wrong way either Rin :lol:

Granted the ABA (Australian Bowhunting Association) has bowhunting as their primary objective ..hence the other arm of the ABA titled "Field Archery Australia"...you can't get more descriptive than that. :o

I may not be well known, but Terry Reilly ..prior to taking his post as the CEO of FITA did infact start out upon a mission which would have handed A.A.'s Field Archery over to ABA's ( Field Archery Australia ).

His words "who better than a Field Archery Association to run field archery ..A.A. would then concentrate solely on target archery."
If it was good enough for Terry to have this vision.. then I for one will go along with the notion that IFAA is best served right where it is.

Cheers

[rinaldo]

Point taken Randall but if the game is as good as everyone says and it is run properly by the right organisation how can there then be only one club offering this game in Sydney. This city has millions of people surely then you would expect more clubs offering this game because everyone would want to play it. Can you see where I'm coming from? :wink:

[BBS]

Bruce I set my pins at 20, 30, 40 50 and 60 metres I do this so as not to confuse my self when I go hunting. Setting them in yards as you indicated would work better.

Setting pins different for ABA round could also be an advantage, but again I don't do it to save confusion.
I have often thought that setting pins at 20, 28, 36, 42 and 48 might be an advantage.
The real secret is practice though.

[Marcus]

What "Field Archery Association"? Just another name for ABA :roll:

IF there was a "Field Archery Assoc." it would serve itself very very well to affiliate with both groups and work towards competitions featuring AA and ABA shooters. Australia's best field shooters ae found in all 3 associations and limiting it to those who join ABA will never get it off the ground. IFAA is the greatest test of field shooting accuracy on the planet, and would be treated as such if all of us had easy access to it.
However while ABA has their "you can not be a voting member club of ABA if you are affiliated with AA" BS then this will never happen.

Something to work towards.

[robbo]

Theres a small ifaa game called a flint round robbo, Dont know where you would look for the rules but from memory it is only played out to 30 yds with the small faces. Neat little game but I think its primary goal was as an indoor game.

Thanks Noel, I'll have another look on the IFAA site.

[OldDog]

I shot my best ifaa bowhunter unlimited score at the state titles at caboolture. 542 followed by a 541 at the grange zone titles a month or so later. My pin settings were 20 30 40 50 and sixty yards. The trick was to find out what worked best for you on the 5 yard splits. top pin low or bottom pin high.
I gave pin shooting away when they dropped the 125 grain point rule from the game. The lighter point enabled an even lighter arrow and, combined with todays rocket bows largely negates the challenge of pin shooting.
ABA's history of ifaa is nothing i would be proud of. We had that game humming up here in s.e. qld but they pulled the rug from under us for the stupid reason that it was becoming too popular. They cut back on the number of shoots till it became untenable to compete with any regularity unless you had the wherewithall to travel the length and breadth of the country.
This was the beginning of the end for a lot of aba members who drifted off to other archery games or other activitys totally unrelated to archery.
Some of us hung in longer than others but over a period of time aba lost an incredible wealth of archery talent as well as some very capable administrative people as witnessed by their success in other disciplines of the sport.
Who knows what the future holds but I have seen nothing to indicate that it will be any different to the current modus operandi of very limited access to serious ifaa competition.

[Randall Wellings]

but I have seen nothing to indicate that it will be any different to the current modus operandi of very limited access to serious ifaa competition.

But it has started Noel...and as you say Who knows what the future holds

"you can not be a voting member club of ABA if you are affiliated with AA" BS then this will never happen.
Marcus...you know that's crap with a capital 'K' :lol:

Turn the wording to please yourself...but please.. :roll: :roll:

"Associate Club" has no voting rights...why DVA is only associate is their business and as far as I am aware..the only other reason is that an executive of A.A. can't hold an executive position in ABA. Besides, Associate clubs may not be able to vote at a Branch meeting (because they have non ABA members) but they do have a 'Voice'

Field Archery Australia...yes Marcus...Field Archery Australia is moving along quite nicely..as stated previosly..there are some good things in the pipeline..maybe if you looked up at times you would see this..but then..maybe not, that appears to be a very heavy burden you bare. :cry:

cheers

[Marcus]

"Associate Club" has no voting rights...why DVA is only associate is their business and as far as I am aware..the only other reason is that an executive of A.A. can't hold an executive position in ABA. Besides, Associate clubs may not be able to vote at a Branch meeting (because they have non ABA members) but they do have a 'Voice'

No Randall, we are unable to become an affiliate club due to our affiliations with AA and now 3DAAA. We have been trying for over 15 years. This is a major hurdle to IFAA taking off as it would open the door for every AA club in Australia to affiliate and take on the IFAA game without losing their AA priveleges.
If "Field Archery Australia" fail to see this as a problem it will never take off.

A voice is no good without a vote.

[Randall Wellings]

we are unable to become an affiliate club due to our affiliations with AA and now 3DAAA. We have been trying for over 15 years.

Again Marcus..not very truthfull..should the truth be known :roll:

ABA will not accept DVA as an 'Affiliate' club because DVA does not have 100% ABA membership...plain and simple.

DVA has been in this position for the past 15 to 20 years, it was DVA who in fact chose to affiliate with A.A. and not ABA ..once again having non ABA members negates the ability to be an ABA 'Affiliate' club.

Yes, in the past DVA had a different situation..where they (DVA) provided their own Public Liability Insurance, thus providing the cover not afforded by ABA because of the clubs 'associate' status...
The fact that DVA can no longer source this P/L insurance is by no way ABA's fault...as much as you want it to be, or have others believe.

Let's start something positive in the "Terry Reilly vein"...petition A.A. to consider handing their own Field game over to be run by 'Field Archery Australia....
His words "who better than a Field Archery Association to run field archery ..A.A. would then concentrate solely on target archery."

cheers

[Marcus]

You are missing the point entirely.
I know exactly what the issue is, and what I am saying is that Field Archery Australia needs to make sure they do not put this limiting factor on clubs if they want to grow and develop field archery. AA and 3DAAA can do it, why not FAA? If FAA wants clubs to drop their AA and 3DAAA members in order to shoot IFAA then it will never take off. Simple. Otherwise you are only marketing yourselves to teh ABA market and that is no different than now.

If FAA wants to be able to offer something ABA does not then it must actually behave in a different fashion, otherwise it's ust window dressing.

[James Park]

Last thing we want is yet another archery body.

[Randall Wellings]

If FAA wants clubs to drop their AA and 3DAAA members in order to shoot IFAA then it will never take off

Never been so far off the track, Marcus...ABA or Field Archery Australia has never wanted the A.A. members to dis-affiliate with A.A...but they must become members of ABA to satisfy the constitution of the ABA.

Join both or all three..what ever it takes to get along...Archery is way to small for all this divisional crap...right now sure thing aren't perfect..but what in this life is :wink:

Get A.A. to the discussion table....might not be as easy as you think and I know ABA's waiting for an invitation to enter into dialog.

Can see we are going to have a great time at the Archery Forum dinner..if i'm allowed to attend :roll: :lol:

cheers

[Marcus]

How can this
ABA will not accept DVA as an 'Affiliate' club because DVA does not have 100% ABA membership...plain and simple.

and this
Never been so far off the track, Marcus...ABA or Field Archery Australia has never wanted the A.A. members to dis-affiliate with A.A...but they must become members of ABA to satisfy the constitution of the ABA.


Be the same thing?

They can't, you've said it yourself. DVA and any AA club can not be voting members of ABA or FAA while 100% of their members are not ABA members. THIS IS BAD! This is what would stop AA clubs affiliating or associating with FAA. AA and 3DAAA does not have this requirement (DVA has non AV members yet still votes) so why does ABA?
For a club like DVA to affiliate with FAA ALL 160 of our members would need to join ABA. It won't happen, the same as ALL 160 will not join both AV and 3DAAA.

If you want FAA to grow and take off Randall stop listening to the guys in ABA in Queensland, and start listening to the ones who are telling you what's wrong with it. They have had their chance and have blown it. Ifthey had not, this thread would not exist.

if i'm allowed to attend
of course you are not allowed to attend, but I doubt that's ever stopped you. :lol:

[Randall Wellings]

If you want FAA to grow and take off Randall stop listening to the guys in ABA in Queensland, and start listening to the ones who are telling you what's wrong with it.

I really don't know why I even bother with trying to debate this issue with you Marcus.
You know only too well that what you propose is a constitutional change..this has all been said time and time again..
The members of ABA at this present time..don't want the said 'change' as is evident by the present situation.

The invitation to discuss these issued at the Admin level is still out...A.A. needs only to make the approach and sit down to discuss any proposals that may be put forward.

I for one would be infavour of mirroring the American set up where NFAA members are able to shoot in NAA event...having NFAA numbers on the books of NAA does wonders for their status when seeking funding for the Olympic programs.

Maybe worth a shot...but it will take people with vision...are you that type of person :o :lol:

cheers

[2Dogs]

...are you that type of person


Just like an ad out of a Paul Verhoeven movie (starship troopers) :D....click here to see more :wink:

[Kuru]

starship troopers ? you geek fck :lol:

[2Dogs]

:D:D...ok Robocop then

[Marcus]

Starship Troopers is one of the greatest films of all time

Need to know more?

[Juggs]

and if your a complete geek you would play starcraft with the starship troopers map

[CMB50]

there's a Starship troopers map!!? !!! ?? :o :onfire:


....ummmm..... yeah.... only a complete geek. :-?

[Juggs]

bassically just a fixed terran base with 3-4 start points with **** loads of zergs attacking you.

interested in a game

[CMB50]

yeah, that's pretty cool. Used to love starting a multiplayer with 7 computer opponents all set as Zerg and just trying to survive. It's intense but good fun. :D :2gunfire:

[Juggs]

when i get my pc back in a day or two, ill give you my home number to dial into.

[CMB50]

Cool. I'd better re-install the game then and practice. Havn't played in 12 months. :o :D

[Juggs]

same here i use to play it and diablo for between 3-4 hours a night

[Randall Wellings]

Seriously now.. let's get back to the topic at hand.

No.. I will take it and start a new topic.. Duel Membership ..can it happen??

cheers

[OldDog]

Arent you sick of this shet yet randal. chill out and smell the roses dude. Not one person on this forum has had their view swayed over the aba, aa, 3daaa issue. just play whatever archery floats your boat and get on with the serious business of having fun.

[Randall Wellings]

Ultra chilled dude :wink: ..as i said..it can happen :lol:

Old farts like yourself may be burnt out. It's your choice to stick your head up your bum and smell your rose :o :(

Me..I think i'll still keep nipping away.

It's no skin of your nose Noel...let it be if you must..But!..I would like your input as much as the next guy :roll: :wink:

cheers
and chilling out again :wink:

[OldDog]

Here's some input you ****wit :fist: put that where the sun dont shine.

[Randall Wellings]

As previously infered.." Brain Dead" :lol: :lol: :lol:

cheers rosy :wink: