Duel Membership ..can it happen??

[Randall Wellings]

I need input.. from ABA members.

I would like to put forward a 'Duel Membership" proposal where we can shoot where and when ever we like.

The yanks do it.. why can we? In the States, members of the NFAA are able to shoot in the NAA events and visa versa. The members list from each association would grow considerably, this is sure to benefit all archers when dealing with government departments.

As I see it the only sticking point is "under whose insurance do they participate?" Why should this be a problem?...if an ABA member attends an A.A. shoot, then let it be agreed that A.A. insurance would be applicable to all contestants at the event, ABA would do like wise at an ABA event.
Sounds simple enough. :o :o

In-put from A.A. members..

You will need to approach the heads of the associations and have them to agree to enter into dialog with ABA.. surely, with a concerted effort this can and will eventuate.

I would like from both ABA and A.A. members, also 3DAAA, their ideas of why

[darthfik]

I think this topic could cause a lot of duels!! :lol:

[darthfik]

But seriously.
I think the real soloution would be a merging of the various archery bodies into one national organisation.
No I don't think that will happen as the politics between ABA and AA would never allow it. Official recognition of dual membership by both bodies would be a good thing though.

[Marcus]

Good move Randall. Anything I can do to help. This is a must for our sport (regardless of bow type or membership) to move forward.

[Randall Wellings]

Marcus...start listing ideas...reasons for ..reasons against from your perspective...

The more reason to do this, the better the chances of success.
People are listening..let's do it right.

cheers

[Robert43]

I think its great idea I am a member of ABA due to the only club in the area is ABA Robert

[Bruce]

this is a positive step in the right direction , this sort of change needs to start from the groud level and move up the chain .

I really can only see benifits for archery in Australia from this sort of concept .

We would still have our seperate organisations and clubs as I see it with our rules relating to club activities , but if an archer from either side felt like visiting and competing in the other style there should be no barrier .


What do people think with regard to state and national titles .

Should an archer be a member of the host organisation to win a title?

I think so , it would encourage strong memberhsip , with members having to make a decision not just pick the cheapest option .

Also , members of committees at state level could only be from the governing body of the association . only fully financial members could hold positions on committees .

[robbo]

What do people think with regard to state and national titles .

Should an archer be a member of the host organisation to win a title?.


This may be a sticking point.

But I also think you should be a member to claim a title. :-?


But I think this as a whole would be a very possitive move. :D

[Marcus]

No I think that's fine. I would love to go and shoot some major IFAA shoots, but struggle to justify the extra $75 a year it would cost me. This would allow me to compete, but be ineligable for a prize, and that is fine because I don't chase medals. ;)

National IFAA Titles
1st Clint Freeman GTB 559
2nd Alan Weston GTB 548
Marcus Anear DVA 547
3rd Bruce Kelleher GTB 546

No problem with that.

Also ineligable for badges. So a ABA members at a FITA event can not claim his 1300 star for example, however if it is non-state can still take a place.

[Bruce]

546 I wouldn't give a **** I'd be shouting the bar , Screw the Medal :D :P


Only need to find 15 points and I am there



Bruce

[Randall Wellings]

great start...great input and positive thoughts.. :D

keep 'em coming. :wink:

cheers

[robbo]

Would, say an ABA member shooting AA (or vice versa) pay the normal shoot fees + small nominal fee for insurance?

Or just pay the normal fee and the slack is taken up by what ever organisation holding the shoot?

[woodduck]

How about creating a poll on this forum, let it run for a month, then see what the concensus is. List the options and see what happens. :-?

[Randall Wellings]

Would, say an ABA member shooting AA (or vice versa) pay the normal shoot fees + small nominal fee for insurance?

I do believe that the two associations could work to find a solution where each could provide insurance protection for all participants.

We are:-

1 A member of a recognised Australian Archery Association

2 Protected by the same insurance cover as the other Association.

3 The Association hosting the shoot will benefit from the vistors particpation.

cheers

[robbo]

Sounds good.

[Luke]

Personally I think it's a great idea...

but realistically I don't think you'll ever see it go through.

The ABA head honsho's simply wouldn't agree to it...no while Syd is still kicking anyway...

****, they won't even award 20 and 25 year membership badges to those who have been loyal continuous members over that entire period...what does that tell you for what is thought of the members opinions?

Just my opinion.

Luke

[enseth]

Surely insurance can't be the huge sticking point that some try to make out. I would be very interested to know when the last claim that either the ABA or AA made against their policy. Me thinks that claims would be very few and far between. Surely to infrequent for it to be used as a mechanism to stop such an arrangement.

A definite advantage of such a system would be the increase participation in both associations events. I can see IFAA being the big winner. More participants in this event would be a real plus.




The ABA head honsho's simply wouldn't agree to it...no while Syd is still kicking anyway...

Granted Sid & some others have a powerful influence over ABA policy etc, but as Randall constantly points out, the ABA is member run organisation. The executive is duty bound to implement he wishes of the members. So if enough members get behind this push then it has every right to succeed.

[Randall Wellings]

as Randall constantly points out, the ABA is member run organisation. The executive is duty bound to implement he wishes of the members. So if enough members get behind this push then it has every right to succeed.

The YEH!! for the day...So that's why it's so very important to get the proposal RIGHT!!!

keep the ideas coming :D :D

BTW. ABA did have a big claim a couple of years ago...
As I understand, the claim was paid without consultation with ABA. Had there been consultation, the claim may not have been effective .... $5000.00 paid out..next year's premium..up$5000.00. :cry: :cry:

We're paying for the possible abuse by one member :roll:

sh*t, they won't even award 20 and 25 year membership badges to those who have been loyal continuous members over that entire period

Luke..that can't be totally correct..continuous is continuous...if they are entitled then they shall receive their entitlements.
If they haven't..there must be another reason :roll: :o


cheers

[Luke]

Luke..that can't be totally correct..continuous is continuous...if they are entitled then they shall receive their entitlements.
If they haven't..there must be another reason

I tell ya mate it is correct as I have exchanged emails with Syd himself over this issue. The reason given to me was that they (ABA) have not been able to keep track of people's membership continuity over all the years and so they won't recognise anyone who claims to have been continuously over that period... a member since day dot (or very near to it...ABA no 112!)

I first enquired some years ago and was fobbed off with "the request/proposal will be discussed/tabled at this years AGM". I heard nothing more.

Approaching a year later I sent the EXACT same email to Syd and got the same reply..." "the request/proposal will be discussed/tabled at this years AGM". I replied back saying that this was what I'd been told the year before and were they actually going to do anything about it this time or what? I got the "or what" and was fed the line above about proof of continous membership.

If the ABA committee decide they don't want something to happen it doesn't matter a rats what the members say. In the end, it's not a democracy...we don't get to vote on the decisions that are made...the committee decides for us. If they don't want it, then we don't get it. It's a dictator ship in every sense. When was the last time you voted on who'd be ABA president? If it truly was run by the members then every member would be involved in voting for the people who have applied to fill the committee positions.

Your not being honest with yourself if you think the average Joe in ABA can make much of a difference even if the members do agree...if the committee doesn't: stiff ****.

Luke

[OldDog]

Bingo, Was wonderin how long it would take. :roll:

[Luke]

Bingo, Was wonderin how long it would take

I'm going to do a Pauline here...please explain?


:P

Luke

[enseth]

I think the Old Dog is saying he agrees with you Luke

[OldDog]

Your post explains it all Luke, Not a truer post has been aired on this forum, Some of us have known it for years, some will come to know it, some will be too brain dead to ever get it. The system was set up in accordance with the way the public service is run and was set up by a public servant. We all know how efficient that system is dont we, By the time a good idea reaches the decision makers it is so dilluted and polluted it isnt worth a hat full of 3 dollar notes.
My head as well as many others still bear the scars from beating on the brick wall. Proposals like this raise their head periodicly and people huff and puff about what a wonderful idea then it just vanishes into smoke.
There is already provision for archers to shoot at different games, Its called pay your money and fire away.
Lets face it, the percentage of archers that do cross play is very small any way.
How many aba shooters do you see playing fita and vice versa.There are a few freestyle shooters who will shoot any decent game be it fita ifaa or 3daaa but on the whole there really arent too many archers who jump the fence.
Believe it or not and despite the rantings of some this idea is dead before it leaves your typewritwer.
Insurance is not an issue as all three associations use the exact same policy to cover not their members but their own arses. Shoot what you want and enjoy it, I do and so do many others.

[Luke]

I C...that's what I thought you meant...thanks for taking the time mate.

Luke :D

[Randall Wellings]

My head as well as many others still bear the scars from beating on the brick wall. Proposals like this raise their head periodicly and people huff and puff about what a wonderful idea then it just vanishes into smoke.

Sorry to wake you there oldog..you just go back to sleep, afterall, the fight is certainly not within your capabilities now...your age and lack of motivation is well noted...back on the porch old boy...

There are others interested in pursueing this goal..noone ever said it hasn't been tried before and it may be tough..but hey, if you are any indication of those that went before...well I rest my case. :roll:

cheers

[OldDog]

And if you and your ego are any indication of what is to come then god help us.

[2Dogs]

Did you want some help? :lol:

[Randall Wellings]

if you and your ego

Ouch!!..that smarts..NOT :lol:

Ego does has 2 syllables...sounds like

[OldDog]

One thing for sure randal, they'll never let you shake hands with the queen, cos you **** every thing you touch

[Randall Wellings]

Rest assured 'ol fart' ...I certainly don't want to shake your hand..but I have ever intent of doing the other. :wink:

Cheers

[OldDog]

you got that right, I find it very difficult to shake hands with people who have more than the allotted amount of digits on each hand.

[Randall Wellings]

shake hands with people who have more than the allotted amount of digits on each hand.

****..does that mean Teelow can count...blows that theory :o

Oh well..on with the topic at hand..my hand..the one with extra digits.

cheers

[OldDog]

Yep..... and you know what to do with that digit dont you wellings.

[Randall Wellings]

Yep..... and you know what to do with that digit dont you wellings

You finished yet...surely you have had enough venting for one night..

Remember you age now :wink:

cheers

[Bruce]

I'm Glad you to get along so well :D :D

Bruce

[stodrette]

Back to the subject at hand :D

Doing something is better than doing nothing......If you don't agree, just get out of the way and let the "visionaries" get to work!!!

If they fail, so be it. If they succeed, all the better!

[OldDog]

Visionarys...LOL We,ve seen these so called visionarys at work for some time now. Visionarys groping in the dark. :rofl:

[stodrette]

And I believe you were one of them at one time :o

Whatever happen to doing things to benefit archery? Wasn't that you?

Hopefully, they- the rest of the archery community that you say you support, will run you over, or leave you behind.

[OldDog]

To benefit archery is a wonderful thing but when people with their heads stuck so far up their own arse get called visionarys then its time call down on them.... Hopefully you willl mind your own business before you put your foot in any deeper on a subject you know nothing about.

[stodrette]

At least they try, regardless of where their heads are.....Beats all the bitching that you do.....and the lack of activity that comes from your court....

and perhaps "visionaries" is too strong a word....they are just people that give a damn and are trying to improve their lot....which beats you by a mile!

You'd make a wonderful politician.....maybe you should change trades...

[OldDog]

Trying to improve "their lot" are the key words there. You accidentally nailed it that time.

[stodrette]

I said "lot" not "loot", although that could happen as well.

And they have a "lot" more on the ball than you ever will.

[OldDog]

you are right, Mine are on the board, not the ball. They tend to fall off the ball depending on which way it is bouncing at the time.

[Randall Wellings]

It has been pointed out that I may have been a little harsh and may also have used some derogetory remarks to some of the contributors.

With all due respect to those who contributed intelligent, encouraging and positive input to this debate, I must appologise for the crap from others that has also infested the thread.

You may choose not to continue the fight for this 'idea' for your own reasons...but please, don't try to stop what others consider worthwhile.

I am certain that this topic doesn't have to degenerate to the point where it shall be locked or sent to the pound.
It is everyone's right to have input and I did invite some to do just that.

I would just ask some of these same people to consider happenings outside of their own circle. I will continue to critique myself for the good of this thread.

Cheers

[OldDog]

Noble words indeed Randall but who gives you the right to apologize on behalf of others.??

[Randall Wellings]

The Lord gives and the Lord taketh away :lol: :lol:

cheers

[stodrette]

Yes, NT you are a twit!!!

Oh, I apologize for hijacking this thread!!!! And I only speak for myself....

Good sabotage job there NT :wink: wouldn't be right if Randall and Marcus succeeded, would it? wasn't your idea so it can't possibly work, can it?

[OldDog]

boy you make a handsome couple.

[Randall Wellings]

For those interested in the future of Archery in Australia..please go to the "take2' version of this topic.

For those not!!..please have some respect for your peers

cheers