Duel Membership..can it happen?? "take 2"

[Randall Wellings]

I need input.. from ABA members.

I would like to put forward a 'Duel Membership" proposal where we can shoot where and when ever we like.

The yanks do it.. why can we? In the States, members of the NFAA are able to shoot in the NAA events and visa versa. The members list from each association would grow considerably, this is sure to benefit all archers when dealing with government departments.

As I see it the only sticking point is "under whose insurance do they participate?" Why should this be a problem?...if an ABA member attends an A.A. shoot, then let it be agreed that A.A. insurance would be applicable to all contestants at the event, ABA would do like wise at an ABA event.
Sounds simple enough.

In-put from A.A. members..

You will need to approach the heads of the associations and have them to agree to enter into dialog with ABA.. surely, with a concerted effort this can and will eventuate.

I would like from both ABA and A.A. members, also 3DAAA, their ideas of why

[OldDog]

Let's keep this one clean and non personal shall we. We might make some progress that way. :D

[Eberbachl]

This is an excellent proposal Randall, and if it is able to succeed it would be the single best thing that could happen to archery in Australia at this time IMHO.

As you say, as far as we are informed, the three governing bodies (AA, 3DAAA, and ABA) all use the same insurer and the same policy for insurance, so if that is the case, then insurance should be a non issue.

As far as tournament participation is concerned, I think as others have suggested there should be some restrictions regarding members from other organisations participating in high level tournament. Such as at state and national titles, members from other organisations could compete, but not be eligible for a prize or to take placings. At club level though, maybe they would be able to contest the tournament.

I've chosen not to renew my ABA membership this year, after some years as an ABA member, but that's another story. If I could attend a few IFAA shoots for example run by ABA as a 3DAAA member without having to join a second organisation to go to a couple of shoots I would be a very happy archer.

In that light, I hope that you are talking about a "Tri Membership" rather than a Dual Membership? (ie: - does the proposal theoretically encompass AA, ABA and 3DAAA - or just AA, and ABA?

If it were a Tri Membership scenario, it would mean that archers could join the association of their choice, depending on the discipline of archery that they would like to be their primary format, but still be able to pay just for the shoot and participate in tournaments from other organisations as a casual archer. If that archer wanted to compete at a high level (ie state or national titles) for any given organisation, then that archer should join that organisation.

Anyway, I think this proposal has much merit, and regardless of whether it has been tried before, it is worth pursuing.

:angel: :bday: :angel:

Cheers,

Luke.

[dad]

Yes this is what I recon most of us want . To be able to shoot any game out there. But how we make it happen I dont know!
I agree that to take out placings in comps you should be a registered member of that association, but many of us just wont the right to enjoy archery at any time & place.
Writing letters off to association office bearers seams a waste of time as you dont recieve areply to suggestion/ queries.
So till something happens I will just stay a member of DVA & play any game I wont at club level 3D AAA AV/AA ABA .
If it can be done at club level why not at national level?
I JUST WONT TO COMPEATE I DONT A FAT RATS ABOUT TROPHYS MEDALS ETC IJUST WANT TO PLAY!!!

[rinaldo]

With 3DAAA you can go to a shoot regardless of what association you belong to. Pay the extra money and away you go, you can even win a national title without being a member. This might be the track AA and ABA could follow thus making life very simple. :wink:

[mbomike]

It's so simple it's scary, isn't it rinaldo :wink:

[rinaldo]

My mistake you can't win the national title or shooter of the year, it comes with funding. You can win the tri series, State of origin, State title and Triple Crown. We need to take a reality break this dual membership wont get off the ground. AA charges like a wounded bull to join their assoc. To join 3 kids and 2 adults with 3DAAA costs me about $170 to join 1adult with AA costs $220, family around $600 to $700. AA is not going to drop their fees. If i'd payed $600 to associate with AA and then they allowed shooters from other associations to play for extra small fee I think I would be pretty pissed. Dual membership great idea but in truth pie in the sky.

[Randall Wellings]

win a national title :o :o

The intent of this debate is to foster the need to belong to an association, but not inhibiting archers from another association from participating.

With 3DAAA you can go to a shoot regardless of what association you belong to

Until the time where there becomes a need to be recognised by one of the two world bodies...then you will have to belong to one or the other.

Isn't this great....all these choices..so much archery..we really are the lucky country.

cheers

[rinaldo]

Hmmm and this National Title is recognised by whom.??.


Sorry Randall I don't understand what you are getting at.

[Randall Wellings]

Sorry Randall I don't understand what you are getting at

Sorry here Rin..after reading it...I really should withdraw the statement..to each his own and I was not allowing that.

Onward with the ideas...we don't want the debate on the possability of this happening...I want ideas of what's going to work, or how it should be structured.

cheers

[rinaldo]

Out of curiosity how many rank and file members of the 3 associations actually shoot the different disciplines. At our club out of 50 members no-one besides myself shoots FITA, nor are they remotely interested in having anything to do with them.I applaud your enthusiasm but are we representing the wishes of the majority or just a handfull of people sitting around some computers? Change comes about when there is alot of voices saying the same thing, you could be heading into battle with no army.

[OldDog]

:sleeping:

[Randall Wellings]

Time has proven there will be a change every now and then..right now, you say no one there is interested in shooting FITA...that's fine..how many have had a go?? could also be asked.

How many FITA want to shoot ABA or IFAA, that to can be asked.
Right now, there may not be a need...but in the past there has been i.e. the various Masters Games..World events that have been held in Australia.

This opportunity may only happen every once in a while..but when it does..wouldn't it be nice just to roll up and participate.

But I'm open to discuss that very point...do people actually want a change.. :o
Oh my god maybe it's true...one of our overseas posters thinks we are just a mob of tight arses...just pay the money they say..maybe that's it...but I don't think so.

cheers

[spot]

If you want to play you pay
Simple

Spot

[2Dogs]

Pay to play....yes...........join!, shove it :wink:

As Rin said the true dual membership may very well be a Pie in the sky.

I would like to see it where we have the kind of duel membership where any AA could shoot an IFAA/ABA if they wanted and Visa Versa. The only condition as previously stated was that you can't take home the Trophy/Title.

It's like having Reciprocal rights between the associations. 3DAAA is right they allow anybody, it's just AA/ABA that need sorting out.

[mbomike]

Pay to play....yes...........join!, shove it :wink:

Aggreed.
I played 3DAAA for the best part of 18 mths before I joined. It wasn't a matter of not wanting to join. It was moreso the fact that I could come or go as I pleased. I payed my money as reqd for each shoot, every one was happy.
I only joined for the fact that I was made aware to the fact that I would not recieve a trophy at the National shoot. (not that I got any placing to warant a trophy).
I like the choice to come or go as I please, and not be locked into a "service agreement". :-?

[rinaldo]

Rugby,Soccer, Aussie Rules and League. All football, you want to play more than one you pay.

[Randall Wellings]

So we are really starting to develope a plan here..."we play.. we pay!!"

Ok.. so simple, I do it all the time. :lol:..However, I am all for change, in the name of progress..."if it ain't broke.. break it"

If you lot are happy the way it is..fine..but why bellyache everytime somone from another association coughs...is this forum just a venting venue?...

I think i'd rather do that down at the pub...waiting..waiting.
cheers

[mbomike]

Rugby,Soccer, Aussie Rules and League. All football, you want to play more than one you pay.

Have to be carefull here rinaldo. These are all team sports, one cannot be a floater and just flit in and out as one wishes. Others are depending on oneself.
Mind you, one can play any, or all, or a combination of. I guess it depends on how much time and stamina one has :wink:

[Eberbachl]

1adult with AA costs $220

That's very interesting...........down here to join AV(AA) is $100 last time I looked - sure 3DAAA is alot cheaper, but $220 seems like alot more than what we pay.......

I personally know alot of FITA archers who would love to be able to have the odd game of IFAA for example without having to join ABA. I also know alot of ABA archers who like to shoot 3D and welcome the idea of being able to have a go at IBO style 3D without having to join 3DAAA. Furthermore I'm sure there are numerous archers from 3DAAA who would enjoy the occasional round of IFAA or even FITA field for that matter (without having to join AA).

Enough of the "it can't/won't work" attitude already! If your not interested in shooting any other games, cool. Just don't try and stop those who are :bday:

[mbomike]

1adult with AA costs $220

I also know alot of ABA archers who like to shoot 3D and welcome the idea of being able to have a go at IBO style 3D without having to join 3DAAA.

CAN DO :bday: :bday: :bday:

[Eberbachl]

Yes, we know that they can do this already under 3DAAA's rules.

The point is, wouldn't it be great if the other two organisations allowed this also :wink:

3DAAA have led the way in allowing people to compete in tournaments (albeit not eligible for prizes) without joining 3DAAA. Simply pay an extra five bucks and you're in - without having to join the organisation.

We are told that all three organisations use the same inurance policy, so if that's the case, there should be no reason why all three organisations aren't able to allow this to occur. It already happens unofficially in some cases in AV whereby temporary player membership has been used to allow people to shoot for a day after filling in the temporary player form and paying a small fee.

ABA should be able to do this also, and the three organisations would be able to advertise policies of shoots being open to all regardless of organisation membership. Those people (temporary players) would not be able to claim tournament placings or prizes, but would be able to try different forms of archery, and shoot the occasional round other than their primary discipline without having to incur the expense of three different organisations memberships......

[Bruce]

With the temporary player form and Paying $5 to participate at 3daaa , How soon does the insurance supplier need to have these forms or funds ?

Does the host club need to fill out a log and forward the entry list to the state body and then to the insurer?

I think if we can work it that we get reciprical rights with out having to fill in forms or pay extra that would be the best .

It has been done by ABA in the past , just the wrong game was selected . Ifaa is the perfect game to offer , Target archers love it because they get to shoot arrows .

A lot of target archers here in vic I think would love to get the oppurtunity to shoot some IFAA .

[Eberbachl]

I'm not sure how the forms and insurance money work Bruce. Maybe a 3DAAA rep or AA person could explain how the temporary player membership or extra five dollars on the day to cover insurance works....

[Marcus]

To the question how many actually play other games:

I was introduced to the sport through my dad who was an olympian recurve archer. Even though I joined DVA (AV/ABA club) I was instantly put into target. The thought of joining an ABA club did not occur to my dad. However thanks to the dual format of DVA I soon got to play some ABA and IFAA as well at club level.
Now days I am a member of AV and 3DAAA. I shoot FITA, Aussie Target, FITA Field, FITA and Aussie Indoors, IFAA field, IFAA Indoor, ABA and 3DAAA. Had I not been lucky enough to have expousure to the ABA guys I would not have done half of these.

I love shooting IFAA, however I do not want to join ABA because I may only shoot 1-2 IFAA rounds a year, and an extra $70 to do so is tough. However if it cost me an extra $5 perhaps then that's easy to do.

Rugby and Aussie rules are NOT the same sport. Like saying that darts and archery are the same. Both require different skills etc while we all shoot arrows. It would be like payng $100 to play darts at one pub and another $70 to play at the one next door, only difference is that one sells Carlton beer and the other XXXX. That's how silly this organisation rivalry is.

[Brad]

Bruce,

You once told me on another thread that other people could come to BMB and shoot if they filled out the visitors book. Is that correct???

I would like to be able to shoot all forms of the game. After all it is ALL archery.

I think paying an extra $5 and filling out a temp player form is the way to go.

As for State/National titles, if you shoot the best score why shouldn't you win??? I'd hate to shoot the second or third best score and be told I'd won

[Eberbachl]

if you shoot the best score why shouldn't you win???

The point of not being eligible for claiming trophies/tournament placings is that the tournament placings are only open to members of that organisation. If you want to take home trophies, you would be required to join the organisation in order to do so. The $5 temporary player thing would be just for people who only wanted the odd shoot at that discipline, and nothing more. It is only there so that they wouldn't have the expense of joining up only for a few shoots.

If the Temporary players were able to contest the tournament by officially taking places and trophies, then the financial members of that organisation would justly see that as unfair - why even bother joining at all?

There would have to be restrictions placed on the temporary members to encourage full membership of the organisation for those that wanted to play the game often.

:wink:

[Brad]

Fair Point

[mbomike]

Fair Point

No Brad......That should BE THE POINT.
I think Eberbachl has hit the nail on the head perfectly.
A simple scenareo for a simple problem i think. K.I.S.S.