Archery Australia's Website

[Marcus]

Well the webmaster has put on some javascript drop down menus that don't work in IE 5.2 on OS X. I've emailed them and had no reply. Also they are not fixed. Now I can't see the records section or the rankings. The bottom of the page says

This site has been created for optimum viewing at 800x600 resolution
and True Colour(24bit) settings and Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5 and above

Well now it looks like I need to buy a PC to get information off a PoC website. Really, if AA was serious about making us look like a decent organisation they wouldn't use code generated by PoC software like MS Frontpage. (A tool for home users, not professional site development)
Not impressed that my membership fees are going towards supporting this rubbish. :( :x :evil: :x :x

[foo]

Time to try Mozilla?

[Marcus]

no thanks, I only use Netscape for banking and I'm not a fan of open source ventures like Mozilla. They tend to have heaps of problems. I've also tried in the past iCab, OmniWeb and Opera. All crashed more than IE. I shouldn't have to adjust my browsing habits to compinsate for one site's poor programming.

[Marcus]

Just opened up Netscape 6 and it works under that. So I can look now. However I hate having to open it.

[Eberbachl]

You'reright Marcus that sites should as far as practicable be made browser independant!

BTW how long ago did you email them? Bit of an insult not to humour one of your members at least with a reply! :cry:

[foo]

You'reright Marcus that sites should as far as practicable be made browser independant!


That's assuming that the browser implements the standards correctly - which IE doesn't always do.. and older versions of Netscape didn't either.. It's supposed to be one of the big points for Mozilla..

[Marcus]

That is correct foo. That is why I don't use Javascript in my sites, expecially for things such as navigation bars. You just ask for too many problems.

My motto is "keep it server side!"

I'm a dork! :roll:

Luke, at least a month ago. Yeah lack of response annoys me. I contacted Nock Shop about their site issue and they have fixed it. Credit to them!

[GaryH]

Come on Marcus,
You're asking that the governing body for Archery in Australia actually do something for it's members. Something that will enable them to have a resource to use!! I'm sorry :( but you're just asking for too much :lol:

[Kuru]

Why would you want to even look at the AA site ! If your wanting latest news, just wait 6 months then, bang it's there ! I always found 9/10 pages were under construction, even when some of the links actually worked !
Funny thing is just say you wanted to send snail mail to AA, try finding an address, there isn't an address !

[mike]

Before you get too narky about the whole thing (and you guys really are getting very narky :lol: ) I have one question, Do you know if ANY of our membership goes to the website?? Or is it a voluntary thing where someone has given up his or her own time to put up a website? If thats the case then we can't expect it to be done by a developer by profession (No offence intended Marcus). Sure if we paid a developer then we'd probably get an A1 site that worked for everybody, but...



Thats my 2 cents worth. :lol:

[Marcus]

Well I personally don't mind bits of the site and my complaints are valid for a home made site as well. Unfortunatly few professional sites have these problems because they work with better programs. Frontpage is not a professional application and relies alot on the other end using Windows and IE (Microsoft Monopoly tool #465)

I've been talking with the webmaster and he is building a seperate site to handle other browsers. Seems like alot of extra work to accomadate a MS feature, but hey, that's his unpaid time.

I do agree with you Mike, and I thank him for the time he is putting into it. That brings up another question. Should an Association like AA have a professionally built website and newletter?

[Eberbachl]

Yes, an association like AA should have a professionally produced website and newletter.

I'm not :D nocking :D the job that the current people do, I think they do a great job with limited resources in a field that is not often their forte (I know how difficult it is from experience).

Websites and Newsletters (read magazines) are a great vessel for conveying information and promoting a sport/organisation, and can do incredible things. Just look at the awesome results we are seeing in this forum made by Marcus (admittedly a professional) in a very short time. DVA is also blessed with Marcus's expertise for http://www.dva.asn.au and we are reaping the rewards.

ABA produce quite a good magazine (although their website is a bit average even by my amateur standards), but just wonder what sort of front we could have if the existing organisations pooled their resources to produce a professional website and newstand magazine!

:wink: :lol: I'm a broken record I know :lol: :wink:

[foo]

I'm not :D nocking :D the job that the current people do,

Hey! That's the second time you've used that joke.. We got the :D point :D already!

:P

[Eberbachl]

sorry foo, I get the :) point :)

but that was actually the first time I used it, the second time was about an hour later... :wink:

.....I'll try to think of something else.....It may take a while though :wink:

[foo]

I'll be waiting to see what you :) serve :) up..

[ZenArcher]

Gee it's nice to see that everyone can bad mouth a VOLUNTEER'S efforts on something that no one else wanted to take on when the job came up.

Granted I admit the stuff up with the javascript drop-down menus, but Marcus's first e-mail, as I explained to him, was never received. I DID reply back to his second one in less than 12 hours as I do with all e-mails, providing I can get to a computer during the day to check mail. The only time I don't make it to a PC is when I am on holidays. Which I consider family time more important.

In regards to the comments on information being out of date. If I am told about something then the information goes on the website at the end of each month, IF I AM NOT TOLD, I CAN'T POST THE INFORMATION CAN I !!

This is NOT a full-time job for me and I do this in spare time after work each day. This also needs to fit in time for several hours of archery training per day, 8 to 10 hours normal job per day, family time with wife and kids per day and how about a bit of relaxation as well .

I just love the way everyone can do a better job, but no one puts their hand up. No, just have to bag the crap out of the guy who decides to give their best shot and give it a go. None of you have any idea of the amount of hours (weeks) I spent redesigning the site 3 times over to get it where it is now and YES, pages are STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION, because I haven't be sent the information for those pages by the people that need to send it.

Don't bother replying, I won't be coming back to this board.

[Eberbachl]

I'll bother replying, just in case you sneak back for a look ..... :)

You really seem far too sensitive Zenarcher! And before you say it, don't say why don't you try it, don't bother 'cause I'm experienced at being a volunteer and I know it's a cop-out to say "nobody else helps :cry: " "why don't you do a better job :cry: " If people volunteer for a job I belive they should be prepared to do it without whining about how much sacrifice they have to make, and why others shouldn't critisise their efforts, or don't volunteer for it at all.

Nobody was trying to bag you personally, and it was said in a few posts how hard it is for volunteers to do these jobs (like I said, I know from experience). We were however trying to suggest that it's frustrating when sites don't support all common platforms, and that the organisation should back you or whoever does the site with support so that it can look and function professionally. No offence was intened by anyone here to you personally, and it's a shame you take it upon yourself to view it that way.

BTW welcome to Archey Forum Zenarcher, and after looking at the AA website, thanks for making the required alterations to the website so people without Java support can view it. :D

[Marcus]

First up, I apologised to you in email and thanked you for your prompt reply, however this thread was dead by then and forgot about it.

HOWEVER

Firstly, I offered to do the site, but AA did not want to pay a very small fee for me to host it on my servers. ($295 a year) and wanted to stay with Frontpage. (Their current servers don't support either Lasso or PHP)
What people here are complaining about is NOT your work, rather AA not putting money behind it and trying to produce a professional site. For such a large organisation to rely on Volunteers is a disgrace for such an important piece of marketing material. And as a public piece of material it opens itself to harsh critics. I get it all the time when I screw up pages, best response I can give is fix it and keep programming.

With that said the amount of time and effort that HAS been put into it is fantastic and the fact that the records are up to date great. Zenarcher has addressed problems with some browsers which is something MOST people never bother doing. You have done a great job with no resources and the limitations of having to use Frontpage.
As a Mac user it is VERY frustrating when sites only support IE on Windows, and sometimes I am guilty of overreacting. :oops:

Remember, by asking Zenarcher to do this site for free HE is providing this service, NOT AA. And that is what these people are unhappy about.

I said it before, will say again. Thank you for your unpaid time for this Zen Archer, it's not meant to be a slight on yourself, sorry if it came across that way. It is meant to be a slight on AA, and I make no apologies to the organisation.

It's up to you and AA if you wish to support this forum, sorry to see you not adding your ideas and promoting your own site on it, this is Australia's most active archery forum, and it's a shame for AA to miss out.