Factors affecting accuracy

[mike]

Interested in peoples responses to this...

ASSUMING A WELL TUNED BOW with ACCURATE SIGHT SETTINGS.

also assuming a fairly high degree of skill in the operator.

What are the main factors that influence the ability to hit the point of aim?

We have all had days where the arrows just go to the exact point we were aiming upon release (even if we weren't pointing at the 10 at the time :x ), and we have all had days where it seems that despite solid aim and good form and release, the arrows just don't go where they should.

The following are some suggestions:

(the one I think is the most critical): Slight uneven pressure in bow hand resulting in instantaneous torque of the riser upon reslease.

This of course then raises the question of how can the effect of this be minimised? Is positioning the rest crucial here? Should it be directly over the axis of this torque and if so, where is the axis of this torque? Is this axis your wrist joint, the contact with the bow or is it different entirely,eg,is it in fact the dynamic center of mass of the bow (this would include the arrow still on the string and may include you bow arm as well)

Does axel-axel length, brace height or power-stroke length affect this (as many people would like to believe?

What about anchor position? Do some anchor points affect the way the string leaves the release more than others?

Do thin handle profiles help reduce uneven pressure or do they in fact contribute to inconsistancy hand placement (and so inconsistant pressure on the riser)?


I ask all this because there is this concept of a "forgiving bow" that often gets applied to the long ATA, high brace height, slightly deflex, round wheel or soft cam bow. And yet, the higher scores at long ranges have been shot with faster, harder cam, straight or reflex bows. Has anyone shot a recognised '3D bow" accurately at long range? Or is it that those who are shooting 1400s have basically found the right combination (it has to be said that all the 1400s have been shot with bows of similar geometry) Could a 32 inch ATA, 6" brace height, single cam bow shoot a 1400? Could it be that the 3D bow is better than the current thinking for accuracy???

Questions questions questions.......food for thought.....

:P

[OldDog]

Nine times out of ten Mike the problem is between the archers ears. :D

[James Park]

I am very confident that my Quantum and X10's are sufficiently accurate to shoot 10's every shot at 90M. The problem is that the archer is not.
For me, my score on the day seems to depend on how still my aim is and on how well I use the release device - the rest is accurate enough.
I certainly do get days when my sight just completely stops in the ten ring (had it like that last night at Moorabbin, and a couple of weeks ago at Sherbrooke shooting 70M - when I shot 353). I also occassionally get a day when the timing of the release device operation is just perfect, and it is dead easy to hit the ten ring. The problem seems to be that I only infrequently get both these happen concurrently! Problem also is that on a big proportion of those days it is also windy!

I am reasonably strongly convinced that the thing that matters most for a bow is having a reasonable brace height, together with reasonable speed. The axle to axle length does not bother me much. I have averaged 57 at 90M with my 32" Xcellerator and X10's.

Hence, if I could have one wish, it would be that every time I used my release device I used it properly and that the timing was ok. Then I would be much harder to beat.

[mike]

jim,

I've noticed that you refer to the release aid as a "release device"

WHY WHY WHY?????????

:o

[James Park]

Mike,
I have never used the term "release aid" because I think it does not describe it adequately.
It is the thing that actually releases the string, and hence by my definition a "release device".

[Marcus]

I agree with Jim on this one.

I've been in a real slump since injuring my shoulder last year. I'm in the process of teaching myself to shoot again. The thing that prevents me shooting 10's each shot is losing the rhythem in my shooting and incorrect aiming. However here are some things I find puts me out of the 10 when my bow is setup:

Increased aggitation leading to movement of release hand up and down
Movement of torso on shot
tensing of bow and release arm during shot. Leads to release taking too long to go off.
Forgetting how to activate release device (sounds stupid I know, but sometimes I get to full draw and just sit there)
not aiming at the 10.

Most often I find poor shots are caused by losing patience in the release and anticipating the shot. This is something that I'm working on fixing at the moment. From what I can tell anticipation is a huge factor to many having problems with BT releases.

[mike]

From what I can tell anticipation is a huge factor to many having problems with BT releases.

Have to agree there. Unless you are a freak of nature who can happily sit there and gradually rotate the release aid until it fires as a suprise every single time (Tori Watson comes to mind here -- he is completely comfortable with shooting a 7 if that is where he happened to drift on the shot. He never even comes close to a punch)

I always found that with releases such the Stans they become too predictable, and because rotating a release aid is such a deliberate action (I find that it isn't the natural action any way) you sometimes lose your self discipline and make it go off (what I would call "command shooting") These releases in my mind are a bit too much to worry about.

I find the trigger releases (if set up well with no perceivable trigger travel) make it easier to not worry about setting off the release and instead worry about aim. Even still, anticipation of the shot is my personal number 1 problem. If I didn't do this, as I do occasionally, my scores would be very much higher I am sure. It certainly cost me at least 10 points last weekend in the Silver Cup -- as you would expect it tends to getworse in tournaments.

[Kyle Power]

I believe having the body and mind in a completley relaxed state gives me best results.With this I also let the shot sit on or near the middle for as long as i can before executing the shot(most important not to rush it).With the release device (Stan sahara) I set it as fine as possible,this method has improved my scores from 330's @ 70M to mid 340's,with my best being 352 shot last weekend. :wink:

[James Park]

348 at 70M today with my 32" axle to axle reflex riser Xcellerator. Not what would traditionally be regarded as target bow specifications, but quite accurate nevertheless.

[mike]

Yes, Jim. 1353 today in the FITA trial was impressive for the "not what you would generally regard as a target bow" too!

Well shot.

[Jbird]

I have been shooting quite a bit with Dave Cousins lately and have learned a lot. I have a new Super Nova and had the tune screwed up
this weekend. Shot a terrible Field Round on Sat. Dave tore the bow down, reserved my string, moved my nocking point, and reset the center shot. Today I shot 9 points above my personal best. The tune was a major part of it, but having him help me find a no torque hand position was the big thing.

As far as bows go, Dave is as good as anyone in the world shooting outside. He has won every National and local level shoot he has attended in the last two months, including the NFAA Outdoor Nationals and the NAA
Outdoor Nationals. The bow he is shooting is a Hoyt Ultra Tec with the LX limbs on it which gives him 44" axel to axel and over 8" of brace height.

I shoot in the Senior Compound Unlimited (Freestyle) division and I have been noticing that the ones who win and consistantly place in the top 5 of my class all shoot round wheel, deflex, high brace height bows. That is why I bought the Super Nova and I can tell that it is going to do wonders for my shooting already. At least for us old goats, forgivness seems to be the route to higher scores. I am not saying this holds true for the young Pros, but I wonder how many people are shooting Reflex short axel to axel bows because that is basically the bulk of what the mfgs are offering.
A lot of tournaments are being won and world records being set with Martin bows and I think it is interesting that the bow of choice (Scepter II)
is the longest A to A, least reflexed, and highest brace height bow that Martin offers. I believe bow designs are being driven, in the USA at least, by 3-D and hunting and those designs are not necessarily the best for marked yardage target shooting. This is just my opinion and I could be wrong, but the proof is in the pudding for me and I am going to shoot what shoots best for me whether it is in vogue or not.
Jbird

[2Dogs]

Jbird,

Interesting that Dave went to the LX limb and 44" axle to axle. It's where I want my bow to be :cry:

I hate the small axle to axle lengths and the rough cams. give me 44-46 inches and a round wheel with a hard wall..........OMG that's a Supernova :wink:

Did Dave say why he abandoned the XT3000 limb and went with the LX. He shot very impressive scores with the XT3000 and 2001 Command Cam.

Clint has done a similar thing. He is shooting the 2002 UT with 2001 Command Cams with last years XT3000 limb which is 1 1/2 inches longer then this years XT3000 limb.

The Scepter 3 is looking better all the time :o

[OldDog]

this could be considered blasphymy by some, Paul

[Marcus]

If you like long bows with round wheels why didn't you get a ProTec with LXPros and Accuwheels?
My wife has a 2001 UltraTec with LXPros and it's a good length bow. I think the 2001 XT3000 limbs are a nicer length too.

[Jbird]

He told me that he prefers the #2 Command Cam+ and that the UT with the LX limbs gave him the draw length and cam rotation he prefers. The Pro Tec is not very popular over here and I really don't know why. I do know that in the Seniors class that the PSE Mach 11 is very popular with its deflex design and high brace height. A lot of people looked at my Super Nova and asked who they could contact to purchase one. I feel this bow is going to be very popular even though it is on the upper end price wise for target bows. It sells for about the same price as the Mach 11 and has better workmanship and the limb cups are the nicest workmanship you will ever see including the ones on the older Super Stars which really set the standard for quality. At my draw length, I would be shooting the Ultra Tec with the LX3000 limbs or the Mach 11 if I was not shooting the SN. The nice thing about the SN is that in a given draw length, you have four choices of target wheels; 55% Hard Stop, 65%
Hard Stop, 55% Soft stop, and 65% Soft stop. If you can't find something that you like with that many choices, you are not going to like anything. In addition, Merlin tells me that by the first of the year, the
Target wheels will also be available with three tracks so that you can have shoot thru without the spreaders similar to the Fury X except with modular
adjustability. The new Pro Carbon limbs are standard and are as nice as anything on the market.
Jbird

[2Dogs]

I didn't get that bow because the Top shots were shooting the UT with XT3000 limbs.

So I figured that there must be something in it.

I still feel that the longer axle to axle bows are more forgiving, and a softer cam might help.

Too late to change your mind once the orders placed.

I am thinking of buying LX limbs for my UT.........have to see if the budget can handle it :wink:

[2Dogs]

Me..."Whore out" comeon :wink: