Line of force

[YetABeginner]

Okay, I've finally gotten up the nerve to submit images here for your critique. These were captured from video and cleaned up using some automatic settings in my software to make them a little more visible. I have added a yellow line in what I hope is the correct place to see the line of force from the bow-wrist through the release wrist and on to the release elbow.

The first image, LOF1 is the first arrow. In this shot I am gripping very deep on my Solution 3. This image was capped just after the safety was disengaged, so I had lined up the target in my scope/peep.

http://home.comcast.net/~cougar648/LOF1.jpg

If anyone is interested in seeing it in motion, the video is on the web at http://home.comcast.net/~cougar648/shooting5_14.wmv

[YetABeginner]

This second cap was done with a variation on the first. In this one I'm holding the Solution 3 with a less deep grip.

http://home.comcast.net/~cougar648/LOF6.jpg

[James Park]

In general that looks pretty good to me.
The contact point of your bowhand on the grip should generally be a little higher than where you have drawn the line. However, judging from your thumb pointing nicely at the target, your grip is probably as it should be.
Do you have a picture from overhead or behind?

[YetABeginner]

Correction. I posted the URL in the 2nd pic to the wrong file. That was the 6th arrow, not the second and I'm using the very deep grip again.

[YetABeginner]

Here is the real second image.

http://home.comcast.net/~cougar648/LOF2.jpg

[James Park]

In the second picture you posted the line of force is drawn correctly in relation to the bowhand.

[YetABeginner]

Finally, this image was capped at the stage where I switched to the Solution 2.5. Due to the size of my fingers and the size of the finger ring in the 2.5 I can't safely put a very deep grip on the 2.5. If I put it on there I won't be able to take the release off my hand without a LOT of effort.

http://home.comcast.net/~cougar648/LOF3.jpg

[James Park]

I have watched the video:
- From looking at your follow-through, I think you are using the release device quite well. As best as I can tell from that angle, you seem to be getting a surprise release, which is great. Hence, overall your technique seems to me to be quite good.
If you take some more pictures, a particularly useful one is from directly overhead. (Have a look in "Mastering Archery Technique Analysis" and it will show exactly the angles to use).

[YetABeginner]

I will be attempting to get a shot from above, but that's somewhat difficult unless I obtain a mirror. There are some other possibilities, but they are not many. I do see in the book how much better the analysis from above can be since it can show shoulder alignment which is harder to see from behind.

I'll be on the lookout for an inexpensive mirror that I could hook up overhead in the garage, then just need to find a good angle for the video camera to shoot at so it captures my alignment. There is a spot indoors in my house where it is possible to get such a shot, but I want to take caps from actual shooting, not posing, for more accurate analysis.

As you can probably tell I'm cranking back on this bow with a lot of effort. For one thing this is, for me, a new bow (bought used). I haven't tried turning it all the way down, yet. I figure a 10+ lb difference in draw weight between this one and the setting I had been used to on my old bow. I seem to be dealing with the added weight better today after shooting blank bale with it for a few days, probably adding muscle for the draw.

I will also try to get a shot of my bow hand at draw. I'm pretty certain that part is good. This bow has a much narrower grip than my old bow and that helps to keep me from poor hand position.

[Eberbachl]

If I might make an observation - your head looks like it may be tilited downawrd towards the string - maybe to get your nose to touch the string?

Perhaps try and keep your head straight up and down, and not worry about nose on string - let the peep do the work for you?

Jim?

[YetABeginner]

That may be one of the issues that I'll have to deal with, although there are other factors.

I'm 6'6" tall. Since most of the world isn't my head spends a LOT of time tilted down such that it's practically natural. It leads to bad posture, but until you short people get over the fact that you aren't properly sized and make doorways and such tall enough it's SAFER for me to slouch. I do less damage to my scalp and skull this way.

In watching the full-sized .avi file (over a GB in size, that's why I can't stick that up for people to view) I don't see much, if any difference in the attitude of my head. If I do head tilt it doesn't seem pronounced and due to the aforementioned life-long bad posture it feels natural.

While I am used to feeling the string touch my nose (on the side) I'm not sure if the tilt is there or not. I probably need some better critique from someone who can watch me shoot live.

[James Park]

Yes, I do see your head tilted a little. I did not comment on it because it could be simply because you are shooting down hill.
The reason I would like to see the overhead shot is to check the line of force and also to check the shoulder alignment.

[YetABeginner]

How critical is the head tilt to someone with an already deformed posture? I've got over 20 years of slouching to undo if I try to stand straight, not something I'm likely to be able to hold up to during a prolonged shooting stretch.

I do agree that views of shoulder alignment from overhead will be very important. In your book you'd talked about shifting your own form so that the bow shoulder is closer to the arrow as a recent experience. How has this been working out for you?

[James Park]

In your book you'd talked about shifting your own form so that the bow shoulder is closer to the arrow as a recent experience. How has this been working out for you?
I first started looking in detail at the biomechanics back in the early 1970's. I published some of this in the late 1970's in the magazine "Archery Action", and have thought about it and worked on it ever since. My bowhand and bowarm position as covered in my books date back to then.
Regarding shoulder alignment: that also came out of that work in the 1970's, and I have pictures of me using it from then. However I now think that I was trying to shoot recurve bows that were a bit strong for me (50 pounds at one time) and that this stopped me getting the exact line that I wanted. When I started shooting compound in 1992 I found I could much more easily get the alignments I wanted because of the lower holding weights, and have progressively moved my bowarm shoulder in closer to the arrow since then until for the last 5 or 6 years I have had it as close as I can get without getting string contact.
During 1997 and 1998 I shot quite a bit of recurve once again, but with a lower draw weight of around 42 pounds and I found that I could then much more readily get the alignments I wanted (and scored much better as a result, with a best recurve FITA of 1324).
I put quite a lot of effort into coaching a few of Australia's leading lady recurversand that alignment is one area where we did quite a lot. For example, Kate Hamond who shot recurve at the World Target in 1995 and 1997, and exceeded 1300 FITA a number of times had a particularly good shoulder alignment much along the lines of the pictures in the book. We progressively achieved that alignment over about two years from 1993 to 1995, and her scores simply got better and better as we developed it.

[YetABeginner]

[quote="YetABeginner"]How critical is the head tilt to someone with an already deformed posture? I've got over 20 years of slouching to undo if I try to stand straight, not something I'm likely to be able to hold up to during a prolonged shooting stretch. quote]

I'm still not sure just how neccessary an upright head is, but have begun working to correct this form flaw of mine. The first six shots this way were really awkward, but subsequent shots have settled down somewhat in popping arrows into the blank bale.

I need to get to my pro shop to have the peep moved up. In its current position I have to raise the bow and my anchor unnaturally high to get the peep in front of my eyes. I'm not sure what sort of visual I'll have through my peep with my eye further from it. May have to change peep sizes to see anything. :-?

[James Park]

It is less important than the other things, but worth fixing if you can because it can lead to other errors.