Preblem with left tear

[mike]

Trying to help my girlfriend tune her new [sic] set of ACEs.

Through paper it gives a tail-left tear (like this >-- ) and it seems that nothing will cure it. The nocking point is fine, its just an anoying left tear that manifests itself in flight as a noticable kick to the left before over-correcting down range. The groups are not tight enough to be acceptable.

The set up is: Hoyt Intensity, single cam, 40# at 23 inches (well the arrow shafts are 23.5 inches long) shooting with release aid and sights etc. The arrows are ACE 850s with 175 flex fletches and g nocks.

I am aware that the arrows are probably a spine or 2 too stiff, but we have done extensive testing and there is no shaft or fletch collision with the launcher.

When she shoots it the tear is about an inch long when shot from from a few meters from the paper. When I shoot the bow (which looks ridiculous given that I shoot a 29 inch draw) the tear is only about 1 cm long.

We have tried varying the shooting style to little effect, except that when the bow is torqued clockwise when viewed from above, the tear disappears and it becomes a bullet hole.

Apart from the obvious spine problem with the arrows, there seems to be little we can do to fix this.

IT IS A MYSTERY!!! :x :x :x

Does anyone out there have any suggestions (apart from things like 'buy a new bow' or 'buy new arrows' or 'take up golf')????

[Marcus]

Try putting the poundage up and see if it improves the tear. Obviously if too high she won't be able to shoot, but it's worth a play. Sometimes an extra few pounds makes a world of difference, yet after a day she may not notice.

[mike]

Yeah, like the suggestion, trouble is that the bow is maxed out at 40 lbs!!

[Marcus]

Increase the brace height, might help, and may improve groups too.

[mike]

Do you mean my shortening both string and harness?

[Marcus]

Yes, add 5 turns to the cables and string and the brace height should increase without changing the draw length. That will increase the poundage too.

<disclaimer>
I can not tell you if it will make it more accurate and you do so at your own risk. :)
</disclaimer>

[mike]

Thats it Marcus! I am going to do this and if she doesn't immediately shoot a 1400 I will personally blame you!!!! :o

Joking.

I agree that this could be an answer. My only concern is that the little thin limbs on the intensity won't be able to handle the extra strain. They are the thinnest limbs I have ever seen.

[Marcus]

That is a concern, however I wouldn't go much higher for that reason. If she bought new it should have a lifetime warrenty...........


If it does work and she shoots a 1400 then I want ALL the credit!! :lol: :D

[mike]

So you wouldn't do it then? I doubt that the warranty would cover such breakage and at any rate, they don't make the bow any more and I really couldn't be bothered trying to get Hoyt to honour a warranty on a bow that was bought on sale from a dealer here (no names mentioned).



It is a darn shame that hardly any companies are making good short draw bows. When they do, it seems that it is just a cheap version of their more popular bows. For example, the Sapphire is a heavy bow with limbs that would look more in place on a much heavier draw weight bow. And it doesn't utilise the "TEC" design. Why Hoyt withdrew the Intensity and not the Sapphire is a mystery. Is anyone shooting really top scores with the Sapphire? Alot of the top female shooters are using bows like the ultratec or the vortec rather than the sapphire aren't they?

The best short draw bow I have seen on the market is the High Country Lite Force, simply because it is fast, light weight (2.4 pounds mass)and accurate. It was specifically designed for short draw shooters but has all the technology of their bigger bows (same limb and riser technology). It is also relatively inexpensive (about $900 AUD I believe) which makes sense because there is less material in the thing's construction!!!

(no I am NOT sponsored by HCA in case anyone out there is wondering!!! :lol: I do shoot one though, it would be nice to get free bows!!!)


I might have a go a the brace height anyway. At least if it breaks then she'll have an excuse to by a new bow!!! Isn't that horrible of me! HE HE HE :evil:

[Eberbachl]

Hey mike, I'd do the brace height thing.There is no way that a few turns on the cables andstringto increase the brace height slightly is going to either increase the likelyhood that the bow will blow up, and/ or void your Hoyt warranty.

It may however increase the poundage slightly and help the arrow tune a bit better.

BTW, what sort of point/insert combinations have you tried? From memory the inserts in the arrows were 39gn (the lightest). If you go to a 59gn insert and heavy point that may well give you the "whippyness" your looking for...

I hope this helps :D

[Marcus]

Firstly, yes Hoyt would honour the warrent. It's a lifetime warrenty, they would honour it, I have heard of older bows being honoured.
Secondly, there are plenty of really good bows for short draws. The Sapphire is a great bow, Kellie Weston I believe still shoots one (1340+) and many in the US use it. Also the CyberTec will go to 21" draw, and the HavocTec also 21" draw and is lighter than the Sapphire.
Champion make the Eclipse bow, which will go down to 24" (sure you could get it shorter too) and is a really nice shooter.

Plenty of options dude, just have to know where to look. :)

Also, what Luke said

[Kuru]

The Mach 11 goes down pretty low. I know Diane Watson shoots one and she's got a pretty short draw

[Marcus]

I think she's shooting the one with the Magnaglass limbs though. UUrrgghhh! Not good limbs. Also a $1975 bow! Thei Silhouette will go short though, similar bow to your old Mach 9.5

[Kyle Power]

when I ventured into the world of tuning (about 5 months ago),I had a lot of troubles trying to get a consistant perfect tear through paper.I tried alot of different approaches from different arrows to fiddling with draw weight.FINALLY I HAD A CLOSE LOOK AT MY FORM, BINGO!!,it's amazing when you shoot an arrow with a relaxed form and a suprise release,the results are very consistant eg bullet holes (if thats what you are trying to achieve).So my point is " by searching for answers in equiptment first,you may be overlooking the major problem your FORM".(This is based on my personal experinece only). :wink:

[Kuru]

Yes Marcus I belive she has the magnaglass limbs with the stinger cam. Why anyone would want to deface a beautiful mach 11 with a cam option is madness ;)

[REIDY]

I still have a lot to learn in this archery game and to be honest this 'tuning' business is new concept which I am struggling to understand.

I have changed a few things recently, (actually one coaching session with Jim and I have changed just about everything), and I have arrows that are tearing nock left through paper from about 3 metres.

I am not convinced that this is not a form issue so I am not changing anything yet, but I was under the impression that a left tear for a right handed archer meant that the arrow is weak in spine and not stiff.

Can you please confirm

Thanks

[Marcus]

Yes that is correct. Try taking a half turn off the weight and see if it makes a difference.
Also try downloading the Easton Tuning guide from www.eastonarchery.com

[REIDY]

Thanks Marcus,

I will try to fix my form problem before I make any changes, but I have downloaded the Easton tuning guide to study so that I can join in some of these 'techo' forums.

I have been reading these forums for a while now and quite honestly I can see how you can get hooked on these technical things. A little bit of knowledge just seems to just create more questions. Perhaps it is just me!!!

Thanks
Peter

[mike]

You'll find that most of the tuning info regarding spine comes from recurve shooting in which case, yes, left tear means a spine problem. this is due to the "archers paradox" effect of shooting an arrow with fingers around the riser. Compounds do not have this problem and so left and right tears are due to something else, usually poor centershot configuration but note that if you have any collision then paper tuning is useless. YOU MUST powder test after EVERY change to ensure not collision BEFORE shooting through paper. This has been the cause of 3 out of 4 of my tuning problems in the past and it is not always easy to find because collision often only happens on poor shots rather than the technically excelent shot you usually do in front of the paper.

With paper tuning, I only use it to get the arrow doing roughly the right thing. I look for a vertical (no left-right) fletch-high tear of about 2 cm at 5m. The size is not so important as long as it is consistent and not ridiculously big. If I have a little left or right I don't worry too much if I can't get rid of it. MOST importantly I continually check for collision. If I find any I usually lower the rest a little until the collision dissapears. Despite this looking strange you'd be supprised how go the groups can be once you eliminate collision.


After all this I fine tune by group testing at 70m -- looking for a neat circular shaped groups and simply make small adjustments until I get it. Once it groups in the gold consistently I generally am happy (10s are better but that ususally comes down to the shooter not the bow!!)