2002 Victorian State Field Championships

[Robert Halley-Frame]

Entry forms for the 2002 Victorian State Field are in the mail to clubs today.

Event will be held on the 26-27th October 2002 with closing date of 11 October 2002.

Link below

http://archery.alphalink.com.au/Download%20Files/Flyer%202002%20Victorian%20State%20Field.pdf

:D :D

[Marcus]

<start typical Marcus whinge>

How does Sherbrooke justify the $35 entry fee when AV pays for the medals Robert?

</start typical Marcus whinge>

Afraid I'll be shooting the 3D Nationals that weekend, however Erika should get there.

[Robert Halley-Frame]

We have not increased the fees for two year Marcus. Yes we make approx $600 more than the Silver Cup but we do supply top of the bow awards to the Compound, Recurve and Longbow divisions.

I wont go into this discussion again, i think it has been covered at length.

I will only say that $35 for 2 days of doing what we enjoy is a damn cheap weekend compared to other sports.

:D :D

[Eberbachl]

I would like to just say briefly that if you (Sherbrooke) are charging $35 for two days of shooting paper targets when AV supply the medals it is pretty insulting after you justified that cost by saying you had to fork out lots of money for trophies at the SIlver Cup. Saying $35 for two days of shooting is damn cheap is also pretty insulting to those families who are unable to come up with the entry fee for say, 2 adults, and two children.........

Also to say that you have not increased the fees for two years is no excuse, it was damn expensive then , and it's still expensive now.

:roll:

It just seems a shame to use one justification for one shoot and then go and charge the same for another shoot when that justification is no longer present. That's all........

[Robert Halley-Frame]

If you have a look at the entry fees there is a maximum fee of $95.00 for a family.

You may consider it expensive but relative to our sport, cost of equipment etc my Committee considers the entry fee reasonable.

:D :D

[Marcus]

2 things

Of course your commitee feels it's reasonable, your eyes are lighting up with $$ signs. :wink:

Also it's insulting to everyone when you say "The Silver Cup costs $35 because we spend $1000 on trophies" and then when you don't have to pay for trophies you say "yeah well, we figure it's cheaper than buying a new bow." By that reasoning charge $100 per person, cheaper than a new car and you guys can buy that indoor range sooner. ;)

I've set up a poll in the Website Questions and Comments section aimed towards fees in general.

BTW Robert, how many of the Sherbrooke Commitee are actually paying the fee and shooting? Will you be?

[Robert Halley-Frame]

Marcus,

I cant say how many of the committee will be shooting the event at this point of time but I can say that at the Silver Cup at least 3 of the committee shot the event and paid the full entry fee.

Not one person complained about the entry fee and 84 competitors turned up.

The rest of the committee were committed to run the event as part of the organising committee.

In relation to funding the indoor, barking up the wrong tree there. It is likely that Sherbrooke Will not have an indoor due to building restrictions with Melbourne Water.

As I said before I believe this topic has been discussed and there seems to be two points of view.

You do what you want at your club and we will do what our club considers reasonable

:D :D

[Steve B]

I wasnt going to enter anything on this topic at all but I felt the need as a newbie (well back again) to the AV scene. In ABA our branch and state shoots vary from $8.00 to $20.00 and this is for one days shooting, as you would know we dont have to pay judges ( I am assuming that is the case for this event) I have never complained about these costs as I know that I have a choice to shoot or not to shoot, if I dont like the price then I dont have to shoot. If you look at the cost of each day then $17.50 is less than some of the ABA shoots per day and after all it is a State title, remember guys you have the choice to either shoot or not, and one other little thing I might add, I have learnt that if you are not prepared to do anything about it ie: run it, then maybe its not worth saying anything, I have also learnt that from experience. It is good to have free chat but also you have free choice. Not trying to start an argument here or get on side or off side with anybody just stating my views, and BTW Robert I am hoping to be there to shoot just hope I dont miss out on the limited amount of entry space for archers.

[Eberbachl]

Robert Wrote:

Not one person complained about the entry fee and 84 competitors turned up.

I wasn't there this year, so I don't know what people were actually saying at the shoot, but Robert, I was there last year, and you musn't be listening very hard, because I heard at least 20 people at that shoot last year complaining about how much they had to pay to participate. And I also heard a number of people say this year that they couldn't go because they couldn't afford it.

You keep saying "we had 84 competitors".......so what! At the end of the day there were people you stopped from participating because it was too expensive. If it were cheaper, you might have had 96 people........wouldn't that have been nicer ? :roll:

[Eberbachl]

If you look at the cost of each day then $17.50 is less than some of the ABA shoots per day and after all it is a State title, remember guys you have the choice to either shoot or not, and one other little thing I might add, I have learnt that if you are not prepared to do anything about it ie: run it, then maybe its not worth saying anything, I have also learnt that from experience

Firstly Steve B, all ABA shoots here are $15.00 for two days shooting paper targets, so I have no idea why in your branch they can be more than twice the price? Remember we are talking about shooting paper targets here....not 3D.

Secondly, about not saying anything if I'm not prepared to do it..........I have been a member of Diamond Valley Archers for about five years now, and I have been on the committee for 4 1/2 of those five years.....I was the ABA tournament director for three years, the secretary of DVA for one year, and I am now the ABA tournament director again, in 2000 I was the DVA club member of the year, which is an award to a person for doing lots of work to keep the club running smoothly.........so it seems I am prepared to run shoots, and I do.

[Marcus]

I think everyone who enetered at our club went "Geez, that's a bit over priced huh?" and "Yeah Sherbrooke always over charge for their shoots"

Same as Luke here Steve, put alot of work into shoots at DVA. Not so much manual labour, but still a ton of work.
Also we all want to shoot the State titles. So if it's costly we either pay it or don't go. So suddenly instead of saying "Yeah alright the State Field put me down" we have to stop and go "oohhh can I afford that".
Remember too I have a shooting wife, so that's $70 to go. The State Target cost me $50 to go. Only $20 more, but it's only 144 arrows in the field.

State Field, cost per arrow shot: 24

[Steve B]

I hope I have not been misunderstood here, but I was actually talking about the conduct of the shoot, certainly not questioning the amount of work you do at your club or for the sport in general, as the new chum , I want to learn and this is one way (hope I dont make to many enemies along the way :-? ) I was talking about IFAA Nationals this year and I had an oops Luke, that was four days :oops: , still all said and done I stand by what I've said and I am truly sorry that you guys can't shoot due financial reasons, mind you I need to watch what I spend on archery as well otherwise I think I might have to declare that I was bankrupt.
Marcus are those costing indicative of most shoots on offer within the AV calander ? If they are then maybe I might need to have a closer look at my words, and might have to swallow some of em , but hey till then still look forward to the 18th and meeting you guys :D

[mike]

if you're a regular tournament shooter then you have a certain number of costs per year that actually outweigh tournament entry fees:

examples:

Membership: $230 per annum (all inclusive)

Arrows: I go through almost a set per year which costs now at least $400.

Bow -- string and harness replacement every 9 - 12 months : $90

Problems with financial control (read unexplained purchases of release aids etc etc...) $$$$$$$$$$$$

All the major tournaments cost a total of about $200 only. Compared with the other 700 odd dollars its not that much and at the end of the day it is my choice. The biggest financial reason that stops me shooting is when I need equipment like arrows (this stopped me shooting seriously for about 6 months from Sept last year) A tournament entry fee I can usually manage.

Having said that, who ever has the State Championships does kinda have us by the short and curlies because it is a state title and that is something that you want to shoot. So if they said $40 I might at the end of the day reluctantly pay any way.


Little is said about the cost of the World Field Trial back in June. That cost $50 in entry and registration fees!!!!!!! Now that was insane and was absolutely criminal given that we were initially told to just send $25 to register. Aparently AA told Sherbrooke to charge an extra $25 on the weekend!!! I still would like a good explanation from the Sherbrooke Committee for that!!!

[Robert Halley-Frame]

Mike,

In relation to your question re the World Field Trial. The committee was asked if it would support the World Field Trial in Victoria and conseqently we placed a bid for the event. I believe other states also applied. We had considerable support from Victorian archers to bid for the event.

We were asked to put a price on the event which we did and believed that the $25.00 was the fee applicable. I certainly was not aware of the registration fee being on top of the entry fee until details were out.
We received $25 per competitor or $825. From this we had to pay out for field faces $200, Judges,$200 and small amount for stationary etc.

Yes we put a fee in place and it was accepted by AA and we were advised by AV that our bid was successful. At least the Victorian competitors did not have the cost to travel interstate.

We put the event on in a very short space of time, and the work load is considerable to make an event a success. For 31 competitors it was a considerable workload, although I am please that Sherbrooke supported Victorian Archers.

We have to also consider lost revenue from coaching and activities that are held over due to these events.

I think you should contact AA if you need to get an understanding of where the registration fee went and the purpose of the fee.

:D :D

[mike]

Thanks for that Robert.

That is the first I have heard that Sherbrooke actually made a profit out of it. It didn't think that it was like a tournament in that sense, and given the relaxed nature of other state trials I though it was basically Sherbrooke providing the venue etc for the shoot to take place (it was a good shoot I have to say)

I assumed (silly me) that given that the shoot was for AA's sake in choosing a team that they might help pay for it. Clearly the $25 went in to the great financial abyss! I actually feel sorry for Sherbrooke being made to pay for it as well as organise it. Yes, it did take away from the clubs ususal activities and that is a shame.

I was one of the Victorian archers who supported our bid because I wanted home ground advantage!! I had no idea that that meant running a full profit venture for Sherbrooke! I don't mean any harm by these comments but in the future, I think that ALL these details need to be spelled out before we send in the registration rather than leaked out piecemeal. It seemed to turn in to a money grab to me.

These are matters that AA will have to deal with, I agree Robert. It wasn't the fault of Sherbrooke I am sure, but more information could have been made available sooner. I didn't rate myself as a real chance at the team and as such probably would not have entered had I know it was going to cost $50.

Sorry Robert to drag this out. No need to reply, this whole financial thing has gone on long enough and it will be up to Geelong Archers next year to take up the baton. Lets see if they can do it as well as Sherbrooke does. :D

[Marcus]

This is typical of AA Mike.
At the Geelong Nationals we were given the criteria for the Australian Team. You then had to meet that criteria and pay $50 to be considered. So Elizabeth Jennison was running around and getting $50 off stacks of people. I didn't make the criteria and said "Well whats the point, you won't pick me" and she said "we might still". I didn't bother because I couldn't afford the trip anyway, and knew she was up to something.
Well quite a few people who finished below me (I was 2nd) paid their $50, and funny enough, were not given places on the team. We worked out they made about $1000 by doing this to people on the day. Only about 5 kids made the team. All those who paid were told they could make the team by paying their $50.
Not saying this was the case for the trial, and I think Sherbrooke was right to charge obviously, however I agree that AA should foot the bill for that event. They should have paid Sherbrooke $25 per entrant.

[Robert Halley-Frame]

Marcus,

Sherbrooke was expecting to be paid by AA for the event as the form sent by AA asked that a cheque or payment be sent to the Co-Ordinator in ACT.
I found it frustrating that we were told, dont know who's coming, only a couple have paid and suppose we can collect on the day.

If AA continues to organised events like that we wont be putting our hands up again.
I asked that the National Co-Ordinator collect the entry fee in the end because we couldnt complete target allocation until everyone turned up....

The issue of the seperate registration fee was brought to my attention as I had a couple of members who were shooting the event.


:D :D

[Marcus]

Anyone know where the results from this shoot are? Can not find anywhere, AV and Sherbrooke's sites don't have it.