Yet another one

[pmulholland]

With all these interesting hypotheticals about judging, heres one that actually happened.

Here in Tassie we are often 'short staffed' for judges, so they are also often shooting as well (easy to do with two heads :D ). During one shoot this year our one and only judge was shooting, and being DOS at the same time.

He took a phone call (on the line) half way through the shoot, and as a result had to leave the ground to do something at his work.

The problem here then was whether for everyone else to keep shooting, and forgoe the FITA recognition of this event (records were shot), or wait for another judge & DOS to get there. We all decided to wait - an hour 1/2 later we re-commenced shooting with a new DOS and judge.

This wasn't too bad, but when the original judge came back from work he said he was going to complete his round, and despite protests did so. We all had to wait for him to finish for presentations to be completed. He said he shouldn't be penalised because he was trying to do everthing at once, and he was the only person available. To continue shooting the round he said FITA rules covered this situation, but didn't exactly say how :-?

What do people think about this situation?

[Focal]

i think he needs to set his priorities. If he is commiting himself to judging, he shouldn't be shooting, or taking calls. End of story.

[coach]

Don't know much about this type of archery but, I agree with focal. The judge should give all or not at all!

[James Park]

I can see good reason for having judges able to shoot. It is done that way in New Zealand. The key is simply to ensure that there are no conflicts of interest.

[DrRalph]

Interesting situation. I would have said there would be limits on how much time the archer could get to make up missed ends.

At the very least the scores by the archer should not have been recognised for the FITA awards/records.

These seem to the the relavent rules:


7.7.2.5
An athlete arriving after shooting has started will forfeit the number of arrows already shot, unless the Director of Shooting is satisfied that the athlete was delayed by circumstances beyond his or her control. In this case the athlete will be allowed to make up the lost arrows after the distance then being shot is completed, but in no circumstances may that be more than 12 arrows. It is not possible for an athlete to make up arrows in the Elimination and Finals Rounds.

7.7.2.6
The Director of Shooting, in consultation with the Judges, has authority, to extend the time limit in exceptional circumstances. Any such special ruling introduced must be announced to the athletes before having effect. In such cases, the final results list must include the special ruling and the reasons for it. When visual time controls are in use, the thirty seconds remain unchanged.

7.8.2.1
An athlete arriving after shooting has started will forfeit the number of arrows already shot, unless the Director of Shooting is satisfied that the athlete was delayed by circumstances beyond his or her control. (7.7.2.5)


He seems to be leaning heavily on 7.7.2.6, and 7.8.2.1, and could have the appearance of taking advantage of being DOS and the Judge.

Notice 7.8.2.1 refers to 7.7.2.5, which says
In this case the athlete will be allowed to make up the lost arrows after the distance then being shot is completed, but in no circumstances may that be more than 12 arrows.

In this situation I'd have said he could make up 12 arrows from the lost time (say the phone call was life and death) at each of the unshot distances, at most. Basicly I think the rules were flexed a little on the day :)

PS electronic communication devices (the phone) are not permitted on the line, and the judge shoul have known this, and warned himself. :)

[pmulholland]

I just happened to be shooting on the target with him, and he did actually warn me his mobile phone might go off. The strange thing is I didn't hear the phone, but was distracted by him suddenly walking off the line and start talking on it just behind me :D

Still, once he was gone, and the replacement judge arrived, I shot really great without him!

Which leads me to another question, I was left on a target by myself for the remainder of the shoot. I offered to shift targets but no one really minded if I stayed where I was (no one wanted to shoot with me :D ). Double scoring was still possible with people on the next target, but are there any rules for or against someone shooting a full round on an outdoor target by themselves?

[Clare Barnes]

Double scoring was still possible with people on the next target, but are there any rules for or against someone shooting a full round on an outdoor target by themselves?

FITA Rules are pretty waffly - read 7.6. :(

AA rules are a bit more specific (4.1.1.3) in that they state: "A record may be established....there were at least 3 members of the Association participating in the scoring and witnessing process".

I take this to mean that at least 3 AA members witness the calling and scoring of arrows, and sign the scorecard. Whether they are shooting on that target, or even shooting at all, is not relevant. That they are required to be AA members should be noted though - I notice some event organisers sending parents down to "help" the juniors...... whether or not they are checked as AA members is somewhat debatable..... :roll: