I make Yew longbows and Flatbows.

[Natural Archer]

I take my post back

I am sorry to disrespect your sport.

[Natural Archer]

I just mean that mastering a simple wooden bow and wooden arrows is a very nice thing. Not that you couldn't have both ways.

I take my post back

I am sorry to disrespect your sport.

[Marcus]

Not trading my Hoyt UltraElite for a Yew bow I can tell you that.
Shoot what you want, but before you slam my choice of boy try to beat me with it first, I'll give you 2 practise ends. ;)

Moved: Mastering Archery is for in depth technique discussion.

[beetle]

Hmm. Near tore my arm off with a longbow once. Some are a thing of beauty. Beautifully made. Buggers to shoot, especially if you've got no natural talent, such as myself. :D

I need all that modern technology. I accept that. I'm just not ever going to be a naturally good shot. I can shoot a compound barebow (and did for almost 20 years, and sometimes scored), but I can't shoot a recurve or longbow to save myself. I shot a clubmate's 45# longbow today and I could not even hit the target butt with that bloody stick.

Nup. Left eye dominant shooting right-handed very fast compound with sights and release. Longbow good for getting spiders out of the corners of the clubhouse.

Bowtech rules!

[Eberbachl]

And I don't get very impressed when someone with a scope hits a target as anyone could hit it if you showed them how it worked.

What do you think ?


How 'bout this:

I'll appreciate your choice, and you appreciate mine :wink:

[DanceswithDingoes]

I've made self bows and shot em. English Yew is a very different wood to the Pacific Yew that you would be using. I am currently shooting a compound with all the trimmings and love it much as my diamondback rattler backed osage selfbow. Perhaps you would prefer to peddle your wares here http://www.ozbow.net/phpbb2/index.php?sid=5f7f8bddc6567bbb39783ffda6aad502 :roll:

[GrahameA]

Dear Natural Archer

Some people like longbows and some people like other bows.

The shock when you release an arrow is somewhat different to the modern recurve.

Yew longbows are different and not something that most archers will ever shoot (or if they do they will not do it a second time) and most archers will never see a true Englisg Longbow - 100lb plus of draw. A fearsome beast that takes a fair bit of effort to shoot. (I cannot even draw it.)

Some people have negative comments about them but that is their prerogative.

This is one of those things that people like to differ over.

A question from me - are you backing your Longbows with sinew? If so why. They never were in the old days.

Want to see a lot of longbows in action? Look here:-

http://photos.amy.id.au/abbey_5

http://photos.amy.id.au/fayre1

[DanceswithDingoes]

The use of sinew has been around for 1000's of years, combined with hoof or fish glue it can allow a short composite or selfbow to bend beyond belief and return to its original set time and time again, it was the primitive version of fibreglass backing. It can also assist in the elasticity of poorer wood such as elm and dogwood which would splinter under strain but have good compression properties. BTW English longbows (D bows) were often backed with silk to prevent the sapwood from splintering. 8)

[Malko]

Everyone does it as he likes :-) That's the motto I suppose.
Personnaly I like all the gadgety things, the details that become necessary when you've used them once. Like a new toy.
Who need a pressure button? a clicker? ME! ME! :)

It is the 'natural' evolution of any tool to become more and more perfect.
some use electric screwdrivers, some normal screwdrivers..
some use automatic cars (yerk :D), some manual..
etc, etc.
Were to put the limit? who knows (is there a limit to put?).
Using Sinew was perhaps the first evolution, adding a sight was not far behind, and then stabilisers :)

the real 'natural' archer is probably the 5 year-old kid who takes a branch and add a piece of string to it ;)
I love seeing the long bow shooters, and I haven't tried it yet because I still prefer my recurve with its sights stabs etc. :D
Everyone does it as he likes :-)

[Malko]

I especially like the look af these bows:
http://photos.amy.id.au/albums/fayre1/Img_1115.jpg

Are they also called "long"bows?
how much does a bow like that costs?
what's the draw weight? what distance can you shoot with that kind of bow?

[Marcus]

And I don't get very impressed when someone with a scope hits a target as anyone could hit it if you showed them how it worked.

Just read your post again, and I must say you strike me and one of these self important wankers who thinks that just because what someone else does LOOKS easy, it must be.
Guess what buddy, anyone can hit a target with ANY bow, but when you are standing there at 90m and you HAVE to shoot that gold bit EVERY time to be even close to competitive it's a whole new ballgame. Or go to 18m and hit a 2cm sized circle EVERY time. Bet you can't hit the 8cm one that many times.

I enjoy longbows and some are excellent shots (Guy on this board always impresses me) but if all these tools who mouth off with "It's so easy, I want a challenge" blah blah actually decided to try being competitive in Open Compound 99.9999999% would get their butts kicked.

What do you think ?

BTW "Laser" not "Lazor"

[Natural Archer]

I take my post back

I am sorry to disrespect your sport.

[Shermo]

Hey Natural Archer, the reason why a large percentage of user's on this forum don't shout praise for the longbow is simple..............

The don't give a **** about Traditional Archery :lol:

Answer your question?

[coach]

Go Marcus! :grab:

[Ozzy]

I love the "tradition" aspect of Longbows, but I get angry hearing all the "anti-compound" comments from Longbowers in our Club :roll:
Adelaide Archery Club has a disproportianate number .
The "cop out" ex Compounders or recurvers who couldn't shoot competetive scores are the worst :-?
One of the reasons we still shoot in into rock hard compressed layered stramit :-?
"wind yer bow down then"
"So you should shoot a 100 rating with that"
etc. etc.
Then they hold everyone up & expect help in scratching around behind the butts locating their arrows
:-?

[Guy]

I understand where you are coming from Natural Archer. I shoot longbow because it appeals to me more and challenges me more than shooting modern equipment with sights would. That is my choice and how I justify it to myself, but I would not for a moment suggest that anyone elses choice is less valid or that any other style of shooting is easier. Indeed, trying to shoot a 300 indoor and knowing that one shot out of the ten blows it for you must be a completely different mental pressure to what I experience. I hope that your post was put up with good intentions but I think some of the wording may have got a few people offside. Many of the posters here either own or have had a go at longbow (see our State Clout photos) it is just not their first choice.

[Marcus]

I do see that the newest gear would help you win.......
To the guy who called a me a "wanker" you the exactly the type of guy that makes modern sports so sick. Just for expressing a view from a somewhere else you must call people names and point out things like a spelling mistake. Go back to shopping at walmart and blaming the US.
You don't get one single question I was asking, and thats my point.

IF I wanted to shoot something to win it would NOT be Compound with sights or recurve with Sights. The BEST shooters in the world use this gear and if you want to win you had better bring your game and work hard. I've been to shoots where good shooters have finished close to 40th place with this gear, yet I would have won a medal in traditional by hitting the target once.
So what is your point? Let me summerize. (and this is difficult because your english is poor)

* If a bow hit the X all the time by itself we would use it. (you begin by insulting our motives and ability)
* You claim you are not being sarcastic, no rather flat out insulting.
* You take longer to make a longbow than it takes to make a modern bow.
* Nothing matches sinew
* Traditional bows are good
* You think sighted shooters have it easy and anyone could do it. You are better than us modern bow shooters
* It's nice to play with wood.
* Any bow can take game (difficult this one because your grammer was terrible)
* Modern shooters laugh at you
* You see archery as art, not as a sport
* You hang your bows on the wall and go "I'm such an artist"
* I don't know what your next point is, perhaps you could try thinking before you type.
* We are idiots who need to learn something
* We buy new gear because we need the mental edge
* We may buy the new gear but never really be happy.

* We need the new gear to win
* We ignore wooden bows (again talking about your wood) but that's trendy modern life
* Our lifes are shallow and incomplete
* Perhaps you would enjoy a perfect shot, if you could ever make one
* I disgust you
* I have belittled you for being a self important wanker
* You can not spell
* I shop at Walmart and Blame the US (even though we don't have WalMarts and I play 3 different US sports)
* Finally your point is that modern archers are idiots and you are an all knowing enlightened one.

So that is what you are saying.
Basically you are coming onto an ARCHERY board and saying we are all soft because we don't do what you do. Sorry but it's people like you who ruin our sports by insisting that THEIR way is better. I've shot Longbow in competition, I shoot it at my club and we have a good time. We don't sit there and stare at the sky and think "This is a thing of beauty o this wonderful wood" everytime we make a shot. We don't sit there and look at the Longbow shooters and scoff and say "Ha we are better than you, we hit the middle and you didn't". We understand the difference between the bow types and the challenges that each one presents.

Traditional archery has a place, and I hope it is always played. But don't preach to me how much better you are when you get something different from archery. Fact is that you are NOT in the sport, you are an longbowman, but not an ARCHER, because ARCHERS enjoy ARCHERY and not one small aspect of it.

Congratulations, you are Tossa of the Week.

[Eberbachl]

Bingo! :wink:

[Flame]

I love the "tradition" aspect of Longbows, but I get angry hearing all the "anti-compound" comments from Longbowers in our Club :roll:
Adelaide Archery Club has a disproportianate number .
The "cop out" ex Compounders or recurvers who couldn't shoot competetive scores are the worst :-?
One of the reasons we still shoot in into rock hard compressed layered stramit :-?
"wind yer bow down then"
"So you should shoot a 100 rating with that"
etc. etc.
Then they hold everyone up & expect help in scratching around behind the butts locating their arrows
:-?

Is that why Clare is switching to BB Recurve Ozzy


dosen't want to be labeled an old chook - scratch scratch :D

[Malko]

I wouldn't comment on the grammar and spelling because english is perhaps not "Natural Archer" 's mother tongue, and I know it is not always easy to make yourself understood in another language..
(hopefully you understand me here :D)
In any case, I know some ozzies that probalby can't spell much better :-? :D


apart from that I agree with the rest of what you said Marcus.
and if "natural archer" is not sure of his english, then he should make sure he doesn't use an "aggressive" approach.

just wanted to point out the possibility of a non-english person trying to give his opinion in english

[Marcus]

I make the assumption that English should be his native language due to his US remark. ;)

[Malko]

ah ok. I didn't actually understand that sentence about the US stuff :D

[Guy]

He appears to be Canadian. That might explain the U.S. comment and the language if he is from one of the French provinces.

[Eberbachl]

Language is irrelevant.

The fact of the matter is that this dude is aksing - no demanding respect for his traditional bows, whilst openly slamming other forms of archery.

Get real man, you won't win any support with that attitude :wink:

[clever_guy]

"He appears to be Canadian."

Damn back-bacon eating, maple syrup slurping Canadians!!!!

;) :lol: :P

-CG

[Malko]

anybody got answers for my post on page 1 (after the picture) ?

Are these also called "long"bows?
how much does a bow like that costs?
what's the draw weight? what distance can you shoot with that kind of bow?

thanks

[chang]

Provoking may be just a way to get people's attention and make his product known.

[Guy]

Malko,

anybody got answers for my post on page 1 (after the picture) ?

That bow looks like a Mongol or Korean traditional recurve. These are not a longbow but are traditional in Asia in particular and probably pre-date the English longbow. They were designed to be shot from horseback hence the short bow length. I suspect they would not get the cast of a longbow given the shorter draw length and shorter arrows but would still be high poundage. I have no idea what something like this would cost.

[Malko]

Thanks Guy,
at least we get something constructive from this thread :-)

Wouldn't mind having one of those bows on my wall :D

[Flehrad]

You can get Hungarian bows similar to that picture here in Australia for around the $300 AUD mark.

One of the guys in our club has one, and it's a 30lb, so it's legal for his medieval recreation combat (30lb max so you don't get too badly hurt with blunt arrows.....).

I'm not sure where though.

[Guy]

More info here http://www.horsebows.com/archers/

[GrahameA]

Hi Malko

Excuse the delay but I only check in every few days.

That particular bow is a "Magyar". ie Hungarian , by Kassai Lajos. Which particular model I cannot tell but could find out.

(It is a genuine Kassai - not a 'copy' produced by another manufacturer.)

You should note that the Archer is using an Asian release and - before everyone chips in - he was not using a thunb ring. Just a small protective leather pad on his thumb.

What are they like to shoot - different. Just like a recurve is different to a compound which is different to a longbow. And to shoot one well you are heading down a road that is as long as learning to shoot a longbow well.

I do not know if anyone is importing them into Oz.

If you are interested in such it is probably worth your while to read a little about the asian bows and they history.

[dman]

hey marcus mate loveyour work
and natural archer learn your line and shut your trap 0X

[GrahameA]

Just to add a few things.

They are not "longbows". See other peoples comments.

How far can they shoot? How much can you draw is part of the answer. The other part is that in days of old - the flight records were held by bows of a similiar design. Turkish bows I think.

Refer: E.G.Heath - The Grey Goose Wing.

[Marcus]

Cheers dman!

Graham
These are composite bows arnt they which used thumbs rings and often shot from horseback? Really radically reverse recurve design that was almost a complete circle when unstrung.
Not 100% certain as I have not read Grey Goose Wing in a while, which I agree is brilliant. Also a huge fan of The Medievil Archer.

[coach]

Sorry but I can't resist ,I tried , I really did!
[/quote] (difficult this one because your grammer was terrible) [quote]
G.R.A.M.M.A.R :rofl: :rofl: [/quote

Yes I know I know stuffed the quote thingy up!

[Marcus]

:rofl:
Now it's time to learn how to use the Quote system Coach. :rofl:

[Luke]

[quote]Like most archers of my generation, I didn

[Flame]

Hey Marcus

What do you mean we don't laugh at longbowers when they can't hit the target :D

[DanceswithDingoes]

If your interested I just sold a Grozier Deluxe Magyar to Maverick Archery in Melbourne. Marcus the 'circle' bows were of Turkish and Korean origin and unstrung would make a complete circle, the Magyar has the distinct levers or Siyahs that generate tremendous compression of the short curved limbs. There quite a few thousand Roman soldiers that would attest to their efficiency (if they were still alive) 8) Samick make a small carbon reinforced horse bow for around $250 and thay shoot fairly well for such a short bow. Personally I would save my money and order a 'Torges Style' bamboo backed selfbow from Alan Camp at Awaba near Newcastle. These things are a work of art and will outshoot most modern fibreglass backed longbows.

[Clare Barnes]

Hey Marcus

What do you mean we don't laugh at longbowers when they can't hit the target :D

About the same as longbowers not laughing when compounders don't hit the gold! :P

[Flame]

given up barebow recurve already Clare :D

[Malko]

pictures, we need pictures of all these bows!

reading this is quite interesting :D

[recurve boy]

I believe Samick make a decent low cost Korean/Mongolian/Whatever you call it bow. For aroudn the price Flehrad stated.

Edit: I think I turned 2 pages at once ... someone already mentioned Samick ...

[frommy]

Malko,

We have a guy at our club also who shoots with one of these bows. Although his is rated at about 45 lbs, they punch out tree trunk wooden shafts he uses with surprising force.

Although he is into medieval stuff, he is not with the SCA mob who shoot AT PEOPLE, and therefore have a 30 lbs limit on bows.

They are a lovely bit of gear. He also has an English longbow, and a Mongolian horse bow. The Mongolian bow, from memory, as he has not shot it at the club for a while, is not as severe in the limb design as the Hungarian bow.

So this has turned into an interesting thread after all.

Brian

[Eberbachl]

Remind me never to join one of those re-enactment mobs :lol:

I don't fancy standing in front of even a 30lb recurve! :rofl:

[Flehrad]

It's not that bad actually.

You have to wear a minimum amount of armour anyway, and including a kidney plate and box(for guys) and no exposed skin.

You're supposed to have helmets, neck covering and gloves.

Besides, it's like paintball, if they are within 5m of you, you are auto-killed.

But getting nailed with a blunt arrow at 30m from a 30lb gives nice bruises if you're not wearing anything besides straight clothing.
If you've got chainmail, it's not so bad, and if you have plate (ugh, the weight) you don't get any bruising.

[Eberbachl]

:rofl:

Oh well, getting dressed up in plate mail, and running around a field trying to dodge arrows from a bunch of crazy recurvers insn't my idea of fun :rofl:

About the closest I get to plate mail is when I'm playing Diablo :D

[Flehrad]

Ah, but you forget about the other bunch of madmen that are running around.

There are archers, lights and heavies.

Archers... easy.
Lights wear chain, and take out archers, while they auto die when in contact with a heavy.
Heavy wear plate, and take on anything....

Those non archer madmen wield ratan cane swords, hammers, leather shields and other wonderful weaponry to whack each other with.
Two well trained heavies can put up a nice fight to watch.

[frommy]

Gees, Don.

Are you into that SCA stuff? My son was for a long while. Easter at Appin for the annual "feast". Now I think they hold the thing up near Wallacia somewhere.

I liked it when he was involved with them. It got rid of him out of the house for at least four days. :)

[Malko]

you guys know how to have fun :D
http://parati.free.fr/image/medieval/fleau2.jpg

must be interesting to see (from a distance perhaps).
Is eevrybody aware of that auto-die rule? ;)

>CLONK! CLONK!
>Ok! i'm dead! i'm dead!
> HUH? still shouting? CLONK! CLONK! SQUISH!

:D

[frommy]

Olddog, 2Dogs, others

I was once told a story about a Nats held up your way many years ago where the SCA mob put on a demo. They offered their 30# bows to some Nats competitors, and, apparently, many of the SCA people went home very sore and sorry for having stood in front of experienced archers, even though using unfamiliar gear.

True? Could you expand if you were there or have knowledge of this?

[Flehrad]

I'm personally not involved with the SCA, though several of our club members are.

But I like the concept, and years ago, we used to have quite a few SCA members who would join up to practice their shooting skills with blunts at our targets.

They chewed through our stramit like nothing cos the blunts would literally punch out soft sections of the stramit, even when double backed boards.....

And we used to have fun with those who brought their armour as they could practise their dodging skills while we shot at them with their own blunts....

It was also a popular O-Week thing too....

[Eberbachl]

Hehehe :D

Sounds like fun !

I want to be one of the heavies :D

[frommy]

Sorry folks, back to the subject for a moment.

Natural Archer,

I also was set back a little by your initial post, as the subject title has, in my 2 year or so membership of this forum, never been raised, and your comments were derogatory to other forms of archery. Your message was very negative in my eyes.

Marcus,

I do not believe that the flaming you gave this poster was totally deserved.

In general, Natural Archer, if you come back on the forum, and I hope that you do, you will find that there are some very knowledgeable people here, including many with similar interests as you in archery gear before the advent of the modern recurves or compounds. That would be obvious from subsequent discussion in this thread.

I think that most of us would have nothing but admiration for someone who is so dedicated in making a selfbow, and then proudly shooting it, and that message has also come through in this thread to some degree.

I am with Marcus in one area. If I want to be competitive in archery, I need to get modern gear that can hit the 10 ring. I have previously thought about going longbow, for the pure enjoyment of shooting the thing, but there is no competition. And I have an injury which would not allow me to pull the thing.

But to make a bow, and then shoot it? Wow.

We are all archers, and we do not tell you that you should shoot compound, or recurve bows off the shelf. So we do not like being told that we are biased against the longbow concept. It is clear from the subsequent posts that we are not.

Natural Archer, I hope that you will join with us on this forum in the future, as I am sure that you can assist all archers to broaden our horizons. Your initial post has already done that, although it could have been made in more reasonable words. Look at the discussion it has generated.

Just do not try to shove your thoughts down our throats.

Regards,

Brian

[Marcus]

I do not believe that the flaming you gave this poster was totally deserved.

Never stopped me before. :wink:

[A&O]

just to maybe bring some interest to chinese archery.

in the book 'Chinese Archery' by Stephen Selby. there mentioned some bows they dug from many many moons ago are still drawable but they do not dare shoot it fearing damage. the poundage weighs in 100-150 stones average. if i am not wrong a stone is about that of a kilograms.

the shape is also that when unstrung forms a circle and the constrution of a good bow can take years and different materials.

archery was used in china since long ago, in th BCs, as examination for government post. as horse riding and writing also is. chinese have always placed great emphasize on it's officials on being able to shoot well even though they may be of a non-military position.

not sure if anyone is interested. but the book is a great read. mentioning that there were different FOC for different purpose as well..even tapered arrows were used for some specific purpose.

[Natural Archer]

I do enjoy the replys everyone !

Thanks so much. Even the wise guys, deep somewhere there is a lesson for all of us from you !

The very 1st thing that I wanted to ask was about bows that would be on the mark as much as a gun thats all. I then decided that after all your outrage about the topic I would answer it myself - you would just place your targets farther and farther until it becomes hard to hit everytime.

Nothing against your sport guys. Every sport has those kind of guys.

[Malko]

:-? I don't know if that will help Nat' Archer :-?

@A&O: I though a stone was 6.3kg ??? ~ 14lbs??
100stones = 1400lbs ??? :lol: :o
can't see anyone pulling that, sorry.. a horse perhaps :P

Sure there's no mistake? are we talking about the same stones (imperial Measure) or are there some chinese stones as well?

[Flame]

or are there some chinese stones as well?


:D

[GrahameA]

If you are interested in Chinese archery.

Sephen Selby hosts a very interesting site at:

http://www.atarn.org/

[Eberbachl]

I do enjoy the replys everyone !

Thanks so much. Even the wise guys, deep somewhere there is a lesson for all of us from you !

The very 1st thing that I wanted to ask was about bows that would be on the mark as much as a gun thats all. I then decided that after all your outrage about the topic I would answer it myself - you would just place your targets farther and farther until it becomes hard to hit everytime.

Nothing against your sport guys. Every sport has those kind of guys.

Hmmmm - Natural Archer, you continue to assume that bows with sights are "on the mark as much as a gun"

Think again :lol:

Sure, it's easier to shoot a higher score with a compound freestyle rig than a longbow, but it's still real easy to miss too.

What happens is that our expectation of accuracy goes up.

We aim to hit a ten every time we shoot, and whilst it doesn't always happen, it's kinda nice playing playing with the possibility that it may almost be attainable.

At the end of the day it's all bows and arrows though, and I'm sure you and your longbow venture would do well to take the time to appreciate other styles of archery instead of blatantly displaying the lack of respect you currently have.

Remember, it might be a compound freestyle shooter that order the next longbow kit from you :wink:

[Malko]

I love this one:
Nothing against your sport guys. Every sport has those kind of guys

:lol: :o

[Flame]

we are the feral ratpack :D

[Marcus]

Agree with Luke, you just don't get compound do you Natural Archer?
There are rules in place to STOP archery getting too easy. At the end of the day you still have to hold the thing at full draw, you still have to aim and you still have to use the release aid correctly. I am blown away by how accurate we can be, but it's not the gear as much as the archers getting better and better.
The first perfect Vegas round was shot with a recurve and a hook as a release aid
The first 1200 Vegas was shot with a 4 wheeler compound
The first perfect field round was shot with a cast riser and round wheels
The first 1400 was shot with a bow now 7 years old, still has the 90m WR.
I longbow was the only bow allowed I am quite sure many of these feats would have been reached, the people who do it are perfectionists and work hard.

We will not simply shoot further, we are limited by practical distance. Instead we may shoot at smaller faces, but history has shown that just makes US better, not hampers us. Nothing to do with technology, all about how humans constantly break the barriers and push further and further along towards perfection.
By assuming we only shoot well due to technology is belittling of the hard work and dedication top archers put into their sport. As you don't get any satisfaction from accuracy you will never understand this.

At the recent Olympic trial my wife was watching 13 year old Jane Waller train. This girl did NOTHING but practice on a piece of elastic for 6 weeks to get her technique right. 8 hours a day of drawing a theraband and nothing else.
She is now on 3 months of blank target shooting. 8 hours a day.
That's dedication to perfection that Natural Archer will never understand while he marvels at his wood in his workshop. ;)

[Natural Archer]

I take my post back

I am sorry to disrespect your sport.

[Marcus]

You are the cause of this divide. You walk onto this board and start taking shots at people. You are right, I couldn't give a rats about North American Native bows. English and European bows however do interest me.
Sorry you have walked in here and started throwing mud around. Perhaps you should learn that when you first post on a forum you should make sensible posts first like "I'm into making native bows, here's how you do it" instead of "if they made bows that hit the middle everytime would you all buy them?" That's flat out disrespectful to the 1500 users of this board, the compounders, recurvers and longbowmen combined.
You are not asking anything on this board, you are flat out throwing mud from your first post, see below.

peoples bows as a work of art that really can hit a target.
Really hit a target? What those brand name bows just pretend? :roll:

[Juggs]

natural archer you post was a blatant markerting attempt.

no one here has ever disscussed let alone bad mouthed what ever it was you were trying to sell.

[Natural Archer]

edited by Natural Archer

[Juggs]

what drugs you on boy cause they sure must be good.
hows about telling us your contact

[Malko]

well well. the thread got interesting in pages 2-3-4 but now it's all gone again... :( :cry:

[Eberbachl]

Natural Archer, it's my conclusion that you not only deserve the Tossa of the week title, but that Marcus should bestow on you the much coveted...

Tossa of the year!

:rofl:

Get it straight man - nobody is hacking on your longbows here, we respect them just fine.

that most archers think stuff like that is useless just because it can't perform as good

have never sat there listeing to someone laughing at anything that isn't brand new and factory made. . . come on those people are every side line of every sport

......don't know about where you live, but we don't get that much here :wink:

[Natural Archer]

Oh what ever.

[Juggs]

i see the banning stick comming out.

[Gone]

Time for a new countdown!

[Flame]

Luke the Urban Yuppie

:rofl:

The chain is off Luke go for it :D

[Juggs]

:rofl:

Oh well, getting dressed up in plate mail, and running around a field trying to dodge arrows from a bunch of crazy recurvers insn't my idea of fun :rofl:

About the closest I get to plate mail is when I'm playing Diablo :D

diablo 1 or 2 luke

[Eberbachl]

Both Juggs,

I was a huge fan of Diablo 1, played Battlenet heaps.

Then came along Diablo II :D Great stuff! - actually just finished it again a couple of weeks ago :wink:

[Juggs]

my no1 install disc wont bloody work so i cannot install it.
major time commitment on this game especially in later levels where you cannot save halfway through a level

[Marcus]

Not only are you a Tossa NaturalArcher, but you are soft too! Stand by your posts and leave them up!
It's a shame that your archery community doesn't liek you, I can see why, but I go to shoots and shoot next to recurvers, barebow archers and longbows and we all have a good time.

Tossa of Last Century perhaps. :lol:

[GrahameA]

Good Afternoon Marcus

I see someone else has replied re the Siyahs.

Normally you would expect a user of such to use a thumb ring and and asian grip. To me what was interesting was that the archer had opted to just a leather pad. I understand that such pads were used but until that particular day I had never seen one.

I posted a note regarding Stephen Selby's site earlier. There are a couple of other sites around which also specialise in asian archery.

Re SCA, etc

The SCA has heaps of information for those interested in shooting arrows at each other. Note that they specify a minimum arrow tip size so that it will not enter the grill on the helmet and they are now seeking fittings to the nock end so that also will not pentrate the face grill.

This will make for an interesting read:

http://www.sca.org/officers/marshal/combat/archery/

Other groups are a little more adventurous! Some may be interested in having a read here:

http://www.geocities.com/svenskildbiter/NVGInc/combat.html

[Natural Archer]

I really don't know what a tossa is I suppose its a term for one imbread to another imbread. I know what a pencil neck geek looks like in a picture. I try to hold myself back from going down to the level of name calling.
But man you are everything I hate about archery and the year 2004 - BowTeck, white baseball hat that I imagine says some thing like Spawlding on it nerd. Whats that little thing on your top lip all about ?

I would break you over my knee in person you called me a wanker, you would not say that to my face and I am sure I wouldn't give you the time of day.

I really came to the conclusion I was asking a normal perhaps a little deeper than you can understand question and you spent hours coming up with all those big long answers that really just gave me the clue of who I was talking to.

You point fingers about spelling your dim wit - read your own posts you flakey moron.


:fist: 0X

[Aarleks]

I would break you over my knee in person you called me a wanker, you would not say that to my face and I am sure I wouldn't give you the time of day.

I can assure you he would dude. He's an honest and articulate guy. Besides, if you did try to 'break him over your knee' you would have the skirt-wearing 2Dogs to contend with, and I can tell you few have survived that vision unscathed.

Peace.

[OldDog]

2dogs would be more into layin him across his knee and giving him a good spanking aarleks. :o :rofl:

[Gone]

Hey Tossa, what's an 'imbread' ?

[Clare Barnes]

Hey Tossa, what's an 'imbread' ?

Seeing no other answer was forthcoming I had a look and it's not in my dictionary, but would be between these two:

imbibe: to drink

imbroglio: a complicated disagreement

8) :D

[Gone]

If only 'imbecile' had an 'i' instead of an 'e' in the middle..

[Axilla]

This Natural Archer sure can't spell. Shouldn’t the thread title be, "I make You Longbows and Flatbows"?

Imbread - corruption of 'imbecile' and 'bread' i.e. "The baker is an idiot".

[CMB50]

I would break you over my knee in person you called me a wanker, you would not say that to my face and I am sure I wouldn't give you the time of day.

:rofl: Keep it comin', you get funnier with every post!



I really came to the conclusion I was asking a normal perhaps a little deeper than you can understand question and you spent hours coming up with all those big long answers that really just gave me the clue of who I was talking to.



You certainly did! Answer: someone with an IQ 70 points higher than you!

[Eberbachl]

Ahh! :rofl:

I see it now! Natural Archer is really a baker!

I'm Bread

....that explains alot :rofl:

[Malko]

So what does tossa mean exactly ? :-?

I've checked my English-French Dictionary and it's not there.. It should come between tosh and .. ow.. ok got it :D 8) http://45653.aceboard.net/images/smiley/biggrin.gif
http://www.aceboard.net/kator/smiley41.abgif

[coach]

Tossa = WANKER . Did you get that Natural Archer? Or would you prefer DICKHEAD ? Surely you understand one of these :fist:

[Flame]

Hey Marcus

When did you get the bowtek and the Spawlding hat.

You can stuff up someones year :D

You have reached a new high.

:rofl:

[Eberbachl]

So what does tossa mean exactly ?


toss, verb, tossed or tost, tossing, noun.
v.t. 1. to throw one's appendage lightly with the palm upward for pleasure; cast; fling.
Ex. He tossed until it hurt.
2. to lift or move quickly; throw upward.
Ex. He tossed his head. The inexperienced bullfighter was tossed by his friends.
3. the act of masturbation.
Ex. Mother always said if you toss too much you will go blind.
4. to shake up or about, especially in order to mix the ingredients.
Ex. to toss a salad.
5. (Figurative.) to disturb; agitate; disquiet.
6. (Informal.) to throw (a party or other social gathering).
7. to fling oneself.
Ex. He tossed out of the room in anger.

tosser, tossa
1. one who is most practiced in the art of tossing
Ex. Natural Archer is the www.archery-forum.com Tossa of the Week.

:wink: Thanks World Book :wink:

[coach]

You are so educated Eberbachl :rofl:

[Marcus]

:rofl: How long did that take you Natural Archer, I called you a wanker in my second post, it's only taken you 3 days to reply.

"What, something said? What was it? Hit Homer? no that's not right. Slow! They called me SLOW!"

:rofl:

[Marcus]

You point fingers about spelling your dim wit
:rofl: Nice work!

This has been one very entertaining thread, thanks to those who provided some interesting content on traditional bows, and to Natural Archer for just being you. ;)

[mbomike]

thanks to those who provided some interesting content on traditional bows,

Maby that content should be relocated to another section of the forum 8)

[robbo]

:o I can't believe this has gone so far over the top.

Natural Archers original 2 post's, although could have been worded better, and may have been a poor attempt at marketing, but I don't think it deserved this reaction. :-?

[2Dogs]

...so how come I missed this post!....dam work! :D:D

I see you lot have been using my name in vain again :wink:

Now now guys, don't get NA all excited about photo's of me in a Mini....and definately don't show him the one with the Sheep :o ...the thought of him sitting there kneeding his balls like two hard boiled eggs in a tube sock.......Oh God just get me a bucket! :rofl:

[Flame]

don't forget Dolly :D

[Mark]

Ahhh - it is nice to have an interesting thread to read again. Things have been a bit quiet of late. Pity about the late show by 2Dogs - that could have been interesting.

Cast my vote in for Natural Archer being Tossa of the Year !!

:D

[Eberbachl]

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: !!!!!

2Dogs - you're a bad man!

:rofl:

[A&O]

:-? I don't know if that will help Nat' Archer :-?

@A&O: I though a stone was 6.3kg ??? ~ 14lbs??
100stones = 1400lbs ??? :lol: :o
can't see anyone pulling that, sorry.. a horse perhaps :P

Sure there's no mistake? are we talking about the same stones (imperial Measure) or are there some chinese stones as well?

perhas it's different..or just me memory taking a break..i'll check it up again..

[Robert de Bondt]

...so how come I missed this post!....dam work! :D:D



I just wondered who started this thread? :wink: :o

[derekm]

A wind up perhaps ?????? :o

[Killjoy]

That was fast...all NA posting was withdrawn..

Anyway if some one could point me in the direction to where i could get a bow "that hits the middle all the time" I would appreciate it. 8)

[A&O]

:-? I don't know if that will help Nat' Archer :-?

@A&O: I though a stone was 6.3kg ??? ~ 14lbs??
100stones = 1400lbs ??? :lol: :o
can't see anyone pulling that, sorry.. a horse perhaps :P

Sure there's no mistake? are we talking about the same stones (imperial Measure) or are there some chinese stones as well?

perhas it's different..or just me memory taking a break..i'll check it up again..

Checked out the book again..maybe the measure for the old bows are as such one stone about 27.8 kg. and normally a high quality bow would be about 3 such stones.

83.4 kg therefore 186pounds or somewhere there..

[clever_guy]

"83.4 kg therefore 186pounds or somewhere there.."

As far as I have read English warbows were around 100-150lbs, you wouldn't see that for hunting bows though...

-CG

[Luke]

well, well, well...and I though I stirred some ****...

have a look at what I've found...

http://www.naturalarcher.com

Could this really be our much beloved NA???...guess what, ME THINKS SO...

Personally I think this bloke's a neuron short of a synapse. :o

Luke :D

[Zoe]

For someone who seems so frustrated with the perceived

[Luke]

Yeah, while the rest of the world moved on to leather, plastic and the like...jeeze what were we thinking when we could have been using trusty old BARK! :lol:

[mbomike]

well, well, well...and I though I stirred some sh*t...

have a look at what I've found...

http://www.naturalarcher.com

And they even have there own forum :o :lol:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~lazelec/mypic28.jpg

Just a few avatars I found whilst trudging through thier "Natural Wonderland" :lol:

[Flame]

its a worry :D

[frommy]

Yeah, while the rest of the world moved on to leather, plastic and the like...jeeze what were we thinking when we could have been using trusty old BARK! :lol:

I think he was BARKing up the wrong tree when he posted those first two messages. :wink:

[PeterH]

I especially like the look af these bows:
http://photos.amy.id.au/albums/fayre1/Img_1115.jpg

Are they also called "long"bows?
how much does a bow like that costs?
what's the draw weight? what distance can you shoot with that kind of bow?

Here are the details

http://www.horsebows.com/bows/

[Malko]

Thanks to all for the links !

[GrahameA]

Good Morning Malko

If you are interested and you have a fast connection or do not mind waiting then perhaps you would be interested in looking at some video of just how good some people are with older style bows.

If so, go to (paste the link in):

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

and then scroll down to the Video section and choose "Vintage Archery Clips"

The ones of Howard Hill are interesting.

PS - Have you been checking out the other types of Asian Bows yet? If you get a chance go along to a re-enactment group event and have look at the all the different bows they use.

[Malko]

Thanks,

these 2 are quite interesting indeed.. and with a 80lbs bow...

http://www.tradgang.com/videos/hill/hillshoot5.wmv - 754KB

http://www.tradgang.com/videos/hill/hillshoot7.wmv - 1.2MB

I'd like to see one of us try this with our bows :-)

[beetle]

:o

[Robert de Bondt]

:o

Oh ****! A prot

[coach]

:rofl: :rofl: Thats so cool!

[Flame]

[quote=beetle]:o

Oh sh*t! A prot

[Natural Archer 2]

opps, I didn't think it posted as I got an error

[Natural Archer 2]

------------------------------------------------------------------------Yeah, while the rest of the world moved on to leather, plastic and the like...jeeze what were we thinking when we could have been using trusty old BARK!

Thats from the president of the AUssy bowhunters ! What a great quote for my new book ! Love it.

I will have to point out that if you talk to grandfather he will tell you that leather has been around longer than he could remember ! Plastic is my point !!!

It is easy to shoot off the nuckle and hit your target. It is really easy to hunt elk or bear with a wooden bow the bow does not matter much at all. Your arrows better be tuned. For some of us the performance difference is a joke.

I have some quotes for you from some books you should all read. This one is the traditional bowyers bible 1996. This by Jay Massey, Alaska.

"After more than 12 years of outfitting and guiding archery hunters in Alaska I never met a traditional archer who didn't practice with his equipment constantly while in the field. On the other hand, Ive never seen a high_tech archer who seemed to enjoy roving or stump-shooting while on the hunt. The traditional archer carries his bow lightly and casually, almost as if its a extension of his body. The high-tech archers - those who shoot the heavy, mechanized devices - almost invariably carry their bows like some sort of burden - the way a novice rifle hunter carries a firearm."

one more

"Archery Hunting - "Bowhunting" as it is now called - seems characterized by a "get-em-any-way-you-can" attitude. The archery hunter has now become a "bowhunter" - a word slowly, over the years, has come to have bad connotations. To the average non-hunting American, the word probably conjures up images or a hunter who seeks an unfair advantage over his prey by using space-age equipment and unfair methods. The modern bow hunter does not wear wool or buckskins, as did Meriwether Lewis or William Clark or Jim Bridger; he wears the latest high-dollar fashions in camo clothing. Few follow the advice from Saxon Pope "we scorned to shoot from a tree". The modern bowhunter does not use bow and arrows crafted from his own hands, he purchases them fresh from the factory, percision made. Indeed, the typical archer today buys his gear wrapped in plastic- which ironically is the same way an urban dweller purchases his meat. Niether the "bowhunter" nor the urban meat-buyer has any concept of what is involved in the manufacture of his product."

[Natural Archer 2]

opps, I didn't think it posted as I got an error

[Natural Archer 2]

opps, I didn't think it posted as I got an error

[Gone]

Newsflash: YOU SUCK!

[Eberbachl]

------------------------------------------------------------------------Yeah, while the rest of the world moved on to leather, plastic and the like...jeeze what were we thinking when we could have been using trusty old BARK!

Thats from the president of the AUssy bowhunters ! What a great quote for my new book ! Love it.

I will have to point out that if you talk to grandfather he will tell you that leather has been around longer than he could remember ! Plastic is my point !!!

It is easy to shoot off the nuckle and hit your target. It is really easy to hunt elk or bear with a wooden bow the bow does not matter much at all. Your arrows better be tuned. For some of us the performance difference is a joke but the difference in the person is very plain.

I have some quotes for you from some books you should all read. This one is the traditional bowyers bible 1996. This by Jay Massey, Alaska.

"After more than 12 years of outfitting and guiding archery hunters in Alaska I never met a traditional archer who didn't practice with his equipment constantly while in the field. On the other hand, Ive never seen a high_tech archer who seemed to enjoy roving or stump-shooting while on the hunt. The traditional archer carries his bow lightly and casually, almost as if its a extension of his body. The high-tech archers - those who shoot the heavy, mechanized devices - almost invariably carry their bows like some sort of burden - the way a novice rifle hunter carries a firearm."

one more

"Archery Hunting - "Bowhunting" as it is now called - seems characterized by a "get-em-any-way-you-can" attitude. The archery hunter has now become a "bowhunter" - a word slowly, over the years, has come to have bad connotations. To the average non-hunting American, the word probably conjures up images or a hunter who seeks an unfair advantage over his prey by using space-age equipment and unfair methods. The modern bow hunter does not wear wool or buckskins, as did Meriwether Lewis or William Clark or Jim Bridger; he wears the latest high-dollar fashions in camo clothing. Few follow the advice from Saxon Pope "we scorned to shoot from a tree". The modern bowhunter does not use bow and arrows crafted from his own hands, he purchases them fresh from the factory, percision made. Indeed, the typical archer today buys his gear wrapped in plastic- which ironically is the same way an urban dweller purchases his meat. Niether the "bowhunter" nor the urban meat-buyer has any concept of what is involved in the manufacture of his product."

Again, you knock us, and our equipment via the use of your lame quotes.

Take note: you're not welcome here, your a fool who just comes along to push his wheelbarrow without regard for anyone else.

At AF, we respect eachother's choice of equipment, and people are free to shoot what they like.

Does shooting my Compound Freestyle gear make me any less of an archer than a longbower, or recurver? Of course not - it simply means that we love different facets of archery.

Get a life tossa of the week 2 :wink:

[Malko]

The traditional archer carries his bow lightly and casually, almost as if its a extension of his body. The high-tech archers - those who shoot the heavy, mechanized devices - almost invariably carry their bows like some sort of burden - the way a novice rifle hunter carries a firearm."


When I use my calculator, I carry it lightly and casually, almost like an extension of my arm.
When I use my laptop, I carry it very prudently :P :lol:

Thansk for the quotes. I suppose these were the most interesting parts of the book... so no need to buy it anymore :-)
just joking :P :wink:

[OldDog]

Like the guy with a hightec high dollar piece of equipment isnt going to be careful with his investment compared to the guy with a stick. Yeah right. :roll:

[Malko]

so, just by curiosity NaturalArcher.x, are you the guy of the http://www.naturalarcher.com website?

(BTW see my avatar?)

[coach]

Whats with version 2 of this guy? :o

[Malko]

His twni brother perhaps? or a clone ! :-)

seriously I think his no1 alias has been banned :agrue:

[coach]

I thought so 8)

[Luke]

NA, is the man of www.naturalarcher.com....he's been peddling (I should say FLOGGING) his "wares" on Ozbow.net too (ie "I sell flat bows and bark stuff") and has listed the aforementioned URL as his website.

For mine, it is simply TOO big a coincidence to NOT be one and the same ;)

Luke :D

[Atrelu]

imagine two archers were standing 30m from their target. one has a longbow and the other's shooting freestyle. if the longbow archer shot a 40cm group and the freestyler a 8cm group, i'd be more impressed by the longbow archer.

[Flehrad]

Why?

A longbow also has the capacity to make a 8cm group at 30m....

Historically (although I have no specific sources) the great english longbow archers supposedly could nail turnips at 100 yards.

A turnip, even if it's a big turnip, would be probably equivalent to the gold ring at 90m...... which means, at 30m, they could probably robin hood their arrows.

Sure, their arrows are a lot bigger and thicker to stand 150lb since they were wooden..... but, that group size is not that impressive in my opinion.

But hey, it's all about opinion.

[Marcus]

Historically (although I have no specific sources) the great english longbow archers supposedly could nail turnips at 100 yards.

Historically that is BS.
If you look carefully at tournament results dating back hundreds of years it was an amazing feat when they got all their arrows on the butt. ;)

However I do agree with what you are saying.

I've watched good longbowmen shoot and good FSU shooters shoot, and there is nothing more impressive than watching a top Freestyle UNlimited shooter blast 10 after 10 at 90m.
However the most impressive shooting I've seen was Tim and Dave at 70m during matchplay, dudes just don't miss. I would suspect that the world's best recurvers would group exceptionally well with a longbow. ;)

[DanceswithDingoes]

I would suspect that the world's best recurvers would group exceptionally well with a longbow.
If their coaches let them use one. :wink:
I can remember Jeff Jennings nailing the bull with a graceful shaft from his longbow from an impressive 80 yards during an IFAA shoot. The arc of that arrow was sheer poetry in motion as it dropped into the spot.

[Natural Archer 2]

Its hard to compare bows. I guess they all have there place.

Its hard to have get a honest debate going here when no matter what you say its twisted one way or another.

big corporations and big dollars have done nothing but wreak haviock on the natural world. We all know that. To me when I am out looking at the big horn sheep beside a waterfall, I do not want anything to do with that super stalker crap.

The only way to rebel is to make your own bow and arrow from scratch, that sure pisses alot of people off I know, mostly people that have dollars to loose. Sure alot of people in China will be out of 10 cents an hr jobs but perhaps they will find a new one making your shoes.

No I am not saying you should build your own computer, but what the hell do they have to do with wildlife and morals.

If someone is out there feeling sick of all the $$ involved in feeding yourself good organic meat for a winter, I would suggest going for a selfmade bow, thats the only way to feel the hardness and self respect that a mouth full of elk will get you. If anything was China factory made during the killing of that elk you can see how the corporations got paid for the nature in your back yard. 0X them.

[Natural Archer 2]

At AF, we respect eachother's choice of equipment, and people are free to shoot what they like.


At AF the owner of the website will abuse his power, and disrespect your opinon. He will call you names from the get go if you try to start a debate and he doen't agree with your side of the story. He is his own mirror. And used words like "Dude" and belives archers got better by living in condos and being web designers.

He will go as far as banning you if you quote a best selling archery book that everyone can buy at there local book store.

I won't be back here, because the owner is a big mouth control freak that acts like a child. Thanks to all the people who wrote me in support of this idea and the bashing of the idiot who twisted it up.

Does shooting my Compound Freestyle gear make me any less of an archer than a longbower, or recurver? Of course not - it simply means that we love different facets of archery.

No, not less of an archer. Its about the archery section in walmart. It about the kid whos dad will not teach anything but consumerism while explaining the ART of the bow, and the kid that could be shooting a handmade arrow instead of crying for one at the store.

[A&O]

there he goes again.. :-?

[Clare Barnes]

I won't be back here...

Is that a promise?

[Flame]

I won't be back here, because the owner is a big mouth control freak.

Yep thats him :D

[Malko]

the kid that could be shooting a handmade arrow instead of crying for one at the store

and it's for sure that 'kids' will prefer a longbow to a compound with all the equipment.... not. :lol:

[Marcus]

LOL my total number of banned users stays at 1 :lol:
I love these people who join a forum, mouth off then walk away proclaiming "Well your admin just bans people who disagree so I'm out of here!"
:lol:

Yes, so long, bye bye now, adios, seeya!

[Bruce]

don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out :D

[Eberbachl]

Goodbye tossa :wink:

We'll miss you! :rofl:

[Barry]

You are welcome to your views but beware where your self bow may be inserted should you try to peddle them in such a high and mighty fashion.

I would break you over my knee in person you called me a wanker, you would not say that to my face and I am sure I wouldn't give you the time of day.

What came before bows... hands, now that is a real 'hard' and ancient weapon one thats been a hobby of mine for near 20 years... might like to give you a lesson.

[Barry]

You know its a shame, I really think traditional archery is such a fasinating topic. NA's web site is actually very interesting a pity he is his own worst enemy.

On a positive note there have been some great links posted in this thread.. very very interesting stuff indeed.

[Killjoy]

Natural Archer..U sure u got banned??

U sure u did not just forgot ur password??

[GrahameA]

Archon wrote:

"On a positive note there have been some great links posted in this thread.. very very interesting stuff indeed."

Yep, I think you are correct.

[Barry]

I have been trying to avoid trad bows as I can see that is going to be whole other obsession.

For now I am seriously enjoying shooting my comounds and enjoying the gadgets that come with it.

[NOCK HUNTER]

Geeez's,
No wonder he got "TOSSA OF THE YEAR" he's full of it :-?

[wrc.555]

Perhaps you would prefer to peddle your wares here http://www.ozbow.net/phpbb2/index.php?sid=5f7f8bddc6567bbb39783ffda6aad502 :roll:

Thanks! now he's annoyin us!! :lol: :lol:
Makes you wonder what his fellow countrymen think of him if he has to try to sell international! :P


seriously folks,
I shoot traditional (compound as well), not because I wanna get in touch with my heritage or some crap like that!? :o but because sometimes its just plain fun to get out there and throw judo's at tree stumps (or cats :P ), so please don't take this guys ramblings as a reflection on all Trad shooters.
I think NA is angry with evoloution and technology? :o


The only way to rebel is to make your own bow and arrow from scratch, that sure pisses alot of people off I know, mostly people that have dollars to loose. Sure alot of people in China will be out of 10 cents an hr jobs but perhaps they will find a new one making your shoes.
Does this mean you wear seal skin mocc's and live in a cave?
And dont worry about the chinese people out of work, they can get a job makin computers like the one your usin to sell your wares. :lol:

cheers
Buford the Great

ps. play nice with us and remenber...... we're scared too! :lol: